Why some Scientologists continue with Scientology

newlife

Patron
I have a car.

I LIKE my car!

I’m driving the car for many years now and I traveled many miles with it without accicents and so far the thing is working splendidly. Whenever I want to drive, I use the car and it always brings me very smoothly and safely to the next place.

I have to admit that it is not an easy car. Actually it is a bit tricky one. Because you have to learn quite a lot of things in order to drive this car safely.
But during the years I spent a lot of time studying all the mechanics and technics and ways of handling the car, and now I feel really in control of it. This car is a wonderful thing.

Someone came up to me the other day and said: “Did you know that the founder of the company that made this car was a very, very, very bad man, a real crook?”

I said “Yes, I heard the stories about it. I don’t know if all of them are true; may be, may be not. But you know, I LIKE this car. It’s a wonderful car!”

“But hey!” he said, “Don’t you know that this company is actually working for the mafia?!
It’s all about money. That’s all they want! They rip you off. They’re a bunch of criminals.”

“Could be,” I said. “It seems so. I used to work in this company and I would indeed advice anyone not to work there. There’s something really going wrong there in that company. But still, I LIKE my car! The thing is working fine.”

The other person looked a bit annoyed. “How can you say that?” he replied. “Have you looked around lately? Have you heard how many accidents there have been with people driving exactly the SAME car? Have you read the stories how many people there are who tried to drive this car and the car brought them NOWHERE!! This car can not be good! It’s simply not possible.”

I shrugged my shoulders. What could I say. I had read the stories too and I always felt sorry for all those drivers having these bad accidents and trying to get to another place with a car that wasn’t working. Must have been pretty bad for them.

“This car,” the other continued, “does not bring you to the correct destination as described in the manual. It simply doesn’t. The car is wrong, the manual is wrong, the company is wrong, the founder is wrong, it’s ALL wrong! You must be really stupid to drive that car any longer!”

I sighed and looked the other person in the eyes. “Look mate, I’m driving this car for years now. For me the thing drives splendidly. It has always brought me further. I’m not saying that it brings me in one straight trip to heaven. I’m not even saying that it brings me in those locations as described in the manual. The manual might be wrong, the company might be wrong, the founder might be wrong, but for God’s sake, I LIKE MY CAR AND IT WORKS FINE!!”

He looked at me astonished. “You’re just as crazy as the others.”

“What others?”

“Well, all the others who continue driving this car.”

I understood what he meant. I had seen other people driving in my brand of car and some of them were pretty batty. So I could understand very well his line of thinking.

There had been people having accidents with the car.
There had been people who tried to drive and got nowhere.
There had been people forced to drive the car while they didn’t want to.
And then there were also people who tried to drive the car for years and afterwards were talking complete nonsense about the car.
No wonder that my car was not very popular.

“What kind of car do you have?” I asked.

There was a moment of silence. “I have no car”, he said.

“I’m sorry.”

“No, don’t be sorry. I need no car in the moment. I’m totally done with cars. But may be in the future I will buy a Buddha-car or a Yoga-car. I heard these are good cars.”

“Well that sounds fine”, I said. Any car is good as long as you are happy with it and as long as you don’t use it to harm others. And hey, thanks for your concern about all those victims of these car accidents. It’s really good that you want to help them.”

“You’re welcome.”

We shook hands and both went our way.

Good guy. I like him.
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I have a hammer.

I LIKE my hammer!

I’ve been hitting myself upside the head with this hammer for many years now and it hasn't killed me yet, so far the thing is working splendidly. Whenever I want to feel pain, I use the hammer and it always brings me very smoothly and safely to the excruciating pain I'm looking for.

I have to admit that it is not an easy hammer. Actually it is a bit tricky one. Because you have to learn quite a lot of things in order to use it to inflict a wound to your head without killing yourself.

But during the years I spent a lot of time studying all the mechanics and techniques and ways of handling the hammer, and now I feel really in control of it. This hammer is a wonderful thing.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
I wonder whether maybe a computer would be a better analogy. If you can drive one car, you can pretty much drive any car. Maybe you need to learn manual transmission or how to steer a big truck, but that's it. Whereas computers are wildly different. There are different operating systems and there's different hardware and different software, and it's notoriously hard to compare different systems. People learn one system, learn how to do things with it, and generally get used to it. Maybe they even customize it.

And that means that it's easily possible to get stuck with a system that seemed good years ago, though perhaps only because you didn't know any better, but is now quite obsolete. There are really clearly better options available. But all your files are stored in formats that can only be accessed with the system you have. You know just how your system works, and how to work around its flaws. It may be awkward, but you hardly notice how awkward it is, because the tricks are all second nature to you. True, there's a lot of wasted motion in what you do. You could be doing twice as much in half the time. But you're getting by.

If you had the time to invest in learning a new system, then after the first part of the learning curve, you'd be a lot more productive with a lot less effort. But you're busy, and you can't afford the down time needed to learn something new. You might end up going faster, but it'd be some time before you got back up to your current speed again, with the new system. So you're locked in.

Maybe other people complain that the companies that sell your machine and its software have really miserable tech support, to the point where the only thing they really do to handle problems with their products is to try hard to sell you more products. Maybe other people say the software is buggy, that they've had nightmare crashes just when they needed the system most, that they've suddenly lost years of hard work. That when their hard drive died, they discovered that their automatic backup program hadn't actually been doing anything at all. That their boot volume came infested with viruses that have bogged down their machines and sent their credit card numbers to Nigeria.

As long as you're still able to put together your documents and make your deadlines, you're okay, right? And changing now would be just too hard.

But you know: it really wouldn't be very expensive to just buy a cheap new desktop, with a sane modern OS, and give it a try. Save up enough money to take a week off, so you can learn the ropes of the new system. Maybe it's not as hard to make a new start as you think, and maybe the advantages are greater than you realized. It can't hurt to try.
 

Jim Little

Patron with Honors
I do understand what you are trying to say here. In the perfect world without corruption and deception and where everyone truly wanted to help people it would not matter which kind of "car" you wanted to drive.

If something is working for you and you have came to that decision sanely and under your own determinisim then so be it. When everything is all said and done your reality is your reality, your truth is your truth. That is the way it should be. My only problem is forcing me or anyone to believe your reality or truth and using that knowledge to harm others.
 

newlife

Patron
I wonder whether maybe a computer would be a better analogy. If you can drive one car, you can pretty much drive any car. Maybe you need to learn manual transmission or how to steer a big truck, but that's it. Whereas computers are wildly different. There are different operating systems and there's different hardware and different software, and it's notoriously hard to compare different systems. People learn one system, learn how to do things with it, and generally get used to it. Maybe they even customize it.

And that means that it's easily possible to get stuck with a system that seemed good years ago, though perhaps only because you didn't know any better, but is now quite obsolete. There are really clearly better options available. But all your files are stored in formats that can only be accessed with the system you have. You know just how your system works, and how to work around its flaws. It may be awkward, but you hardly notice how awkward it is, because the tricks are all second nature to you. True, there's a lot of wasted motion in what you do. You could be doing twice as much in half the time. But you're getting by.

If you had the time to invest in learning a new system, then after the first part of the learning curve, you'd be a lot more productive with a lot less effort. But you're busy, and you can't afford the down time needed to learn something new. You might end up going faster, but it'd be some time before you got back up to your current speed again, with the new system. So you're locked in.

Maybe other people complain that the companies that sell your machine and its software have really miserable tech support, to the point where the only thing they really do to handle problems with their products is to try hard to sell you more products. Maybe other people say the software is buggy, that they've had nightmare crashes just when they needed the system most, that they've suddenly lost years of hard work. That when their hard drive died, they discovered that their automatic backup program hadn't actually been doing anything at all. That their boot volume came infested with viruses that have bogged down their machines and sent their credit card numbers to Nigeria.

As long as you're still able to put together your documents and make your deadlines, you're okay, right? And changing now would be just too hard.

But you know: it really wouldn't be very expensive to just buy a cheap new desktop, with a sane modern OS, and give it a try. Save up enough money to take a week off, so you can learn the ropes of the new system. Maybe it's not as hard to make a new start as you think, and maybe the advantages are greater than you realized. It can't hurt to try.

Hi Student of Trinity,

I could indeed have used the analogy of a computer, but where that analogy goes wrong is that newer computers are better than older computers.
And this does not necessarily apply in the field of religion or philosophy.

If I was a Buddhist, I would be so because that philosophy would make the most sense to me or give me the most spiritual gain. I would not consider to change my philosophy because it’s old and obsolete.

Apart from that, you’re absolutely right that it is a wise thing to invest some time and learn about other systems as well.

Thanks! :hattip:
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newlife

Patron
I do understand what you are trying to say here. In the perfect world without corruption and deception and where everyone truly wanted to help people it would not matter which kind of "car" you wanted to drive.

If something is working for you and you have came to that decision sanely and under your own determinisim then so be it. When everything is all said and done your reality is your reality, your truth is your truth. That is the way it should be. My only problem is forcing me or anyone to believe your reality or truth and using that knowledge to harm others.


Thank you Jim! :thumbsup:
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GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
Fail! You should have gotten him in to take a test, and gotten a book about the car into his hands.
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
I understand what you are saying and why. My issue is that its not a material thing you are buying. It is emotional and spiritual.

If you wish to follow the spiritual path of a conman, a liar a bigamist and sadist that is your choice.
Me, if I am going to follow anyone else's (ie another humans) path to spiritual growth then best that person I am following not only live an exemplary life but actually be someone that I would be proud to emulate. Nobody is perfect but some people do indeed live their religious beliefs and whether I agree with them or not, it is something to make note of.

I would be hesitant to go to a doctor who smokes, drink and shoots up heroin during his tea break and that's just entrusting my meat body to that person, I would hesitate in entrusting my eternity to the same type of person. I reckon the person's judgement may be a tad off. Exactly what mistakes would he make?

Maybe the test is --would you entrust your mental health and spiritual growth to anyone you wouldn't leave your newborn child with?
If the answer is yes, why would you treat your mind and spirit with less respect and kindness than you would give your newborn child?
 

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
I understand what you are saying and why. My issue is that its not a material thing you are buying. It is emotional and spiritual.

If you wish to follow the spiritual path of a conman, a liar a bigamist and sadist that is your choice.
Me, if I am going to follow anyone else's (ie another humans) path to spiritual growth then best that person I am following not only live an exemplary life but actually be someone that I would be proud to emulate. Nobody is perfect but some people do indeed live their religious beliefs and whether I agree with them or not, it is something to make note of.

I would be hesitant to go to a doctor who smokes, drink and shoots up heroin during his tea break and that's just entrusting my meat body to that person, I would hesitate in entrusting my eternity to the same type of person. I reckon the person's judgement may be a tad off. Exactly what mistakes would he make?

Maybe the test is --would you entrust your mental health and spiritual growth to anyone you wouldn't leave your newborn child with?
If the answer is yes, why would you treat your mind and spirit with less respect and kindness than you would give your newborn child?

Nicely put. An object is not one's emotional and spiritual health.

You can replace a car or computer it's damaged or broken.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
You do realize that, in all the years you've been "driving" your car, it hasn't actually left the driveway, don't you? But, wow, it has a great stereo and the seats sure are comfortable!
 

newlife

Patron
I understand what you are saying and why. My issue is that its not a material thing you are buying. It is emotional and spiritual.

If you wish to follow the spiritual path of a conman, a liar a bigamist and sadist that is your choice.
Me, if I am going to follow anyone else's (ie another humans) path to spiritual growth then best that person I am following not only live an exemplary life but actually be someone that I would be proud to emulate. Nobody is perfect but some people do indeed live their religious beliefs and whether I agree with them or not, it is something to make note of.

I would be hesitant to go to a doctor who smokes, drink and shoots up heroin during his tea break and that's just entrusting my meat body to that person, I would hesitate in entrusting my eternity to the same type of person. I reckon the person's judgement may be a tad off. Exactly what mistakes would he make?

Maybe the test is --would you entrust your mental health and spiritual growth to anyone you wouldn't leave your newborn child with?
If the answer is yes, why would you treat your mind and spirit with less respect and kindness than you would give your newborn child?


Hi Anonomog,

If there was a doctor that I had no experience with and if I would then hear all kinds of very, very bad stories about this doctor, I would indeed be very hesitant to go to this doctor for help.

But on the other hand, if I had never heard anything bad about a doctor and this doctor had helped me several times wonderfully, and if I then later would hear all kinds of bad stories, then these stories would be less important for me.

Stories are stories. They can be true or false.
What counts most for me are those things that I have experienced myself.
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MostlyLurker

Patron Meritorious
NewLife,
you are happy with Scientology and I am happy for you.

If you need a car you maybe have a need to go somewhere. Others may be very happy being where they are, or enjoy to walk or fly to other destinations.

What I found wrong with Scientology, amongst other things:

  • The implant that The Car is the only true workable way to move around.
  • The implant that there is a beautiful miraculous destination called "OT-land" where you literally get Super Powers like Superman!
  • The implant that yo can get to OT-Land only if you buy and drive that particular car.
  • The implant that you need to make sure everybody buys that car too and have a "Motorized Planet", or they will burn in hell till the end of time.
  • The implant that those who complain about our air pollution, or that say that OT-land doesn't exist are evil and need to be avoided, disconnected, destroyed, looked up in a mental institution.
  • The policy that those who try to build their own car or modify in any way their car need to be avoided, disconnected, destroyed.
  • The fact that the builder of the car, who sold all the promises about OT-Land and Superman-powers, never had Superman powers nor he never reached OT-Land himself, but sold the car and the destination for money nonetheless.
  • The fact that the car is full of advertisements about how great the builder of the car was, actually lying about his achievements.
  • The fact that part of the money you pay for the car goes into rewriting history about the builder's life, toward smashing his name into history.
  • The fact that the builder of the car stole parts of the car from others and didn't give credit to other engineers where credit was due, instead used part of the money received from sales to harass and destroy contributors.
  • I didn't liked also the fact that most of the people who bought the car in the past put the car aside and now they walk or fly to move around. None of them reached OT-Land. Many even said it was a fraud and asked for money back but all they got back was harassment.

Yet, if you are happy with your car and your rides then keep going. You are the only one with a right to decide where you want to go.

:coolwink:
 
A Reality Check for you and everyone who clings to this justification!

Hi Student of Trinity,

I could indeed have used the analogy of a computer, but where that analogy goes wrong is that newer computers are better than older computers.
And this does not necessarily apply in the field of religion or philosophy.

If I was a Buddhist, I would be so because that philosophy would make the most sense to me or give me the most spiritual gain. I would not consider to change my philosophy because it’s old and obsolete.

Apart from that, you’re absolutely right that it is a wise thing to invest some time and learn about other systems as well.

Thanks! :hattip:
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This is really insulting to devout Buddhists everywhere. Can you not see that? :duh:

All right, Newlife, good post and a brave attempt at an analogy. Analogies are some of the best ways to teach and illustrate concepts and ideas. Yours falls short in one or two very important ways in my mind. It does help us to understand the intensive selfishness, smug satisfaction and self-blinded complacency and disavowal of criminal culpability of everyone who still calls themselves a Scientologist and supports Corporate Scientology in any way, even tacitly, with their silence about their crimes.

I get it that you like your car, have a strong sense of ownership and you feel that you have negotiated a system where others have "failed", and are a little arrogant about it. Also, what you didn't state, is that you are paying a good deal of money every month to keep this criminal operation that builds and sells people these defective cars, so that even though you are complacent with yours, and give lip service to feeling compassion for the other people who are injured or killed by their defective cars, as long as YOURS is running all right, you are quite content to ignore the reality. The reality that your money, filtered through this organization, is paying for thugs, PI's and lawyers to harass, intimidate, and harm, "by any means necessary" anyone who tells the truth about your car and it's manufacturers. Why? Because: YOU LIKE your car!

How selfish is that? You feel comfortable and contented, so you can ignore that by paying money each month to the company that manufactures these cars, you are actually complicit in the harm they do to other innocent people.

Other people's cars blow up and burn, killing whole families, maiming people, injuring nearby pedestrians as well as other drivers on the road, but hey, because that hasn't happened to you yet and YOU LIKE your car, you feel no sense of responsibility for the harm done. Even though it is YOU, and people like you, who are fostering and supporting this criminal corporation that produces these defective and hazardous cars.

What you also don't state is that your car throws off sparks and causes brush fires alongside the road wherever it goes, some of them doing a great deal of property damage and threatening the lives of innocent people who have never seen your car (the front groups).

Also, from time to time, a hot metal part flies off of your car and through the windshield of another driver on the road, killing or injuring them and causing them to collide with other innocent drivers, causing a major pile up. Seldom are these reported on the news, and so far, no one has arrested or indited you for driving an unsafe car on the public highway, so you feel safe and comfortable. It's easy to ignore all those sad stories of bad things happening to other people, because of the company that made your car. You just have to not let yourself look too much in the rear-view mirror as you go your own way, and you don't see or have to deal with the wreckage left behind, because YOU LIKE your car, and it hasn't really harmed you, yet, right?

Well guess what? WE CAN SEE the harm it has done you, and continues to do.
And YOU DO continue to harm other people by saying I LIKE Scientology, you ARE promoting it to others. YOU ARE defending it and supporting it.

Do I think that you have the right to continue to drive your dangerous car on the public highway, just because you're in denial about the danger it presents to others? Hell no! Your car needs to be recalled for the public welfare! Too bad that YOU LIKE IT. That's not worth sacrificing people's lives and property for. Go find something else that works for you and that you like, that won't harm innocent people! Now THERE'S Spiritual gain for you!

"If I was a Buddhist, I would be so because that philosophy would make the most sense to me or give me the most spiritual gain. I would not consider to change my philosophy because it’s old and obsolete." GIVE ME THE MOST GAIN. Can you see how selfish and misguided this attitude is?

Are you REALLY getting "Spiritual gain", while ignoring and denying the great harm that the system that you are supporting does to others? Does any real religion in the world count that as a Spiritual gain, that you're comfortable while others are being harmed at your expense, and you do nothing to stop it, you take no responsibility for the harm done to them, to other groups and systems (government, law enforcement) that are being harmed, the harm done to the world-wide community as a whole? Google sociopath!

Old and obsolete??? Is that all Scientology is? Scientology is not a religion. Scientology is not a religious philosophy. Scientology is a destructive and dangerous cult that functions as a Corporation while masquerading as a church, whose main purpose is to "make money, make more money, and make other people make money", as Ron said and ordered his workers to do.

If you really hold this attitude, then you can't see the harm that it has done you. Others can see it in you, by your attitudes. You are either ignorant and need to be educated more about the real harm Scientology does to people, including yourself, your family and friends, or you are purposely ignoring the truth about it, and that makes you a part of the problem, and not part of the solution for society as a whole. Can you not see that?

This is why people say "Wake Up!" to the mind-blind and indoctrinated cult members who maintain this attitude: Well I'm out of the church, and I'm doing o.k. So what if other people are being harmed, lives destroyed by it? That's their problem. I LIKE my "religion".

Every person who still calls themself a Scientologist, or who openly talks to anyone else about their wins with it or how much they like Scientology, or shares their Corporate products of books, tapes, e-meter auditing with others is SUPPORTING it, even if you think you are operating outside the so-called "church".

If you think it's o.k. to do this, then either:

1. You haven't read and learned enough about the true nature and actions of your fake "religion" and the crimes of the present-day fanatics who maintain it. You are living in a mental state of denial. WAKE UP!

or

2. You have a criminally self-centered attitude yourself. Sociopathology is inbred into the culture of your pseudo-religion, Scientology, and you feel real comfortable there and fit right in! Your attitude is: Too bad about all those other people who are actively being harmed by it, but I CHOOSE to take no responsibility for that because I LIKE MY RELIGION and I am comfortable, so screw everybody else's safety and comfort.

And we as a society are supposed to tolerate criminal behavior because YOU are comfortable with it? I don't think so!

Get ready for change Pal, your car is being recalled!
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Those who continue with Scientology continue because they are still "True Believers"

and then there are those who leave Scientology and go off and do their own thing but call it Scientology because they seem to be afraid of leaving ol' Hubbard behind.

And then there are those who actually wise up and just leave the whole thing.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Hi Anonomog,

If there was a doctor that I had no experience with and if I would then hear all kinds of very, very bad stories about this doctor, I would indeed be very hesitant to go to this doctor for help.

But on the other hand, if I had never heard anything bad about a doctor and this doctor had helped me several times wonderfully, and if I then later would hear all kinds of bad stories, then these stories would be less important for me.

Stories are stories. They can be true or false.
What counts most for me are those things that I have experienced myself.
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Analogies are fine, but at a certain point they ALL FAIL, because they are analogies! In a general, far away view, they sort of make sense, but up close, the illusion falls apart.

With your first analogy - the car. For me, if I discovered that the inventor of the car, AND the car company that he created, consistently behaved in ways that I find nasty, despicable and unadmirable, I would NOT want to remain affiliated with the car. Simply, there are MANY CARS that can get you around. I would dump the car, and simply get another car. You might even find, now that you have allowed yourself to EXPAND your pool of grossly limited experiences somewhat, that the new car is actually "better".

Stories can be true or false. It is up to you to confirm and verify the validity of any story. Just because stories can be true or false, doesn't mean that a person should remain lazily content with whatever current viewpoint one has based on a VERY SMALL SLICE OF ALL POSSIBLE EXPERIENCES.

For example, I had a great time with auditing and early services in Scn. THAT "experience" kept me going for awhile. Then I read the story of how "my church" framed Paulette Cooper in a crime that she never actually committed, based on exact policies and directions by Hubbard. It was a story, but it was a TRUE STORY. As I came across more and more stories, that were true, about the nastier sides to both Hubbard and the Church, I EXPANDED MY CONSCIOUSNESS and allowed accurate reports of others to influence what I previously considered to be "my own experience".

It is true that what any person experiences is true for him or her. Sadly, this very finite, tiny, extremely random set of "life experiences" is not and should not be a basis for a life long "viewpoint". Why, because it is so severely limited, and even arbitrary and quite randon. Yet, it is for most.

Observation needs to be EXPANDED from the realm of "direct experience", because no person can experience anywhere close to "the full or big picture". Any person's life experiences, when compared to all possible experiences, to use another analogy, are less than a grain of sand when compared to all the deserts and beaches on Earth. How does one expand personal experiences out past the grossly flawed realm of inherently flawed and limited "direct experience"? By enjoying the benefits of carefully communicated reports from others with experiences in the same general area.

I mean, there are just SO MANY intelligent and bright people in the world, creative people, who look at things DIFFERENTLY THAN ME, with sincerity and honesty, just as I try to do, BUT they "see it differently". I love that I can benefit from their unqiue perspectives of it all, and add to my library of experience.

Yes, you must learn to evaluate data. You must learn to separate the BS from the true. But, knowledge is largely gained by human beings by viewing the reports and experiences of OTHERS, over time. Modern subjects, such as electronics, chemistry, math and ALL others, could not exist if every person were expected to "figure it all out newly with direct experience". Modern civilization can exist because we can benefit from the past experiences of others through the written word. Take advantage of THAT! :thumbsup:

So, while I understand that "it is true for me because I observed it", and I agree with that, it is NO EXCUSE not to work very hard at expanding ones pool of experiences through an honest and sincere look at the MANY honest and sincere reports of others over the past. Again, it may not be "easy", but it is most definitely rewarding.

Looking is the road to truth. But, take advantage of the sincere LOOKING that many other intelligentr folks have already done. Don't stop looking yourself, BUT also don't delude yourself that you have somehow "found truth". "Truth" is in the big picture, not in any of the many tiny, isolated viewpoints.

Otherwise, you will forever remain a VICTIM of your own flimsy and extremely TINY set of random, and quite arbitrary life experiences.

Nice try, but FLUNK!

Hubbard and his followers seem to have the notion that "what is true for you is what you observed yourself" is a "good thing". While it may be "true", it is NOT in any way "good" when understood in the above context. And, just because "it is my reality", also does not make it "true" or "valid" in any legitimate manner. "Realities" also suffer from the same extremely limited nature of "agreement" and "individual viewpoint".

Expand your awareness by taking in and making your own the wealth of "legitimate data" that exists in the world, based on the MANY observations of honest and sincere people.

+++++++
 
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Too facile and shallow a look!

NewLife,
you are happy with Scientology and I am happy for you.

If you need a car you maybe have a need to go somewhere. Others may be very happy being where they are, or enjoy to walk or fly to other destinations.

What I found wrong with Scientology, amongst other things:

  • The implant that The Car is the only true workable way to move around.
  • The implant that there is a beautiful miraculous destination called "OT-land" where you literally get Super Powers like Superman!
  • The implant that yo can get to OT-Land only if you buy and drive that particular car.
  • The implant that you need to make sure everybody buys that car too and have a "Motorized Planet", or they will burn in hell till the end of time.
  • The implant that those who complain about our air pollution, or that say that OT-land doesn't exist are evil and need to be avoided, disconnected, destroyed, looked up in a mental institution.
  • The policy that those who try to build their own car or modify in any way their car need to be avoided, disconnected, destroyed.
  • The fact that the builder of the car, who sold all the promises about OT-Land and Superman-powers, never had Superman powers nor he never reached OT-Land himself, but sold the car and the destination for money nonetheless.
  • The fact that the car is full of advertisements about how great the builder of the car was, actually lying about his achievements.
  • The fact that part of the money you pay for the car goes into rewriting history about the builder's life, toward smashing his name into history.
  • The fact that the builder of the car stole parts of the car from others and didn't give credit to other engineers where credit was due, instead used part of the money received from sales to harass and destroy contributors.
  • I didn't liked also the fact that most of the people who bought the car in the past put the car aside and now they walk or fly to move around. None of them reached OT-Land. Many even said it was a fraud and asked for money back but all they got back was harassment.

Yet, if you are happy with your car and your rides then keep going. You are the only one with a right to decide where you want to go.

:coolwink:

Well. Lurkie, I was with you right up to here... this idea of complete freedom is accurate when it comes to thoughts only, but does not extend to actions. Driving a car is an action in the real physical world that has real harmful consequences for others if not done safely. Supporting Scientology, even passively and tacitly, is an action which has harmful consequences for your fellow human beings.

Drivers do not have the right to decide where they want to go. They can't drive through a crowded playground of kids, just because they want to go there. They can't drive off the road and across someone else's property and through their house, just because they want to go there. The can't drive drunk or impaired, they can't drive blind or while on certain kinds of medications, they can't legally drive unsafe vehicles, they can't legally drive without insurance. We, as a society, have all kinds of rules to protect people from the harmful consequences of real world actions taken by individuals, like driving a car.

An individual has a right to think what they want, and to a slightly more limited extent, to say what they want, but they DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO whatever they want, in any decent society, because we as a group recognize that there are those among us who would cause great harm to us, if allowed to do so.

Scientology causes great harm to our fellow humans.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I understand what you are saying and why. My issue is that its not a material thing you are buying. It is emotional and spiritual.

If you wish to follow the spiritual path of a conman, a liar a bigamist and sadist that is your choice.
Me, if I am going to follow anyone else's (ie another humans) path to spiritual growth then best that person I am following not only live an exemplary life but actually be someone that I would be proud to emulate. Nobody is perfect but some people do indeed live their religious beliefs and whether I agree with them or not, it is something to make note of.

I would be hesitant to go to a doctor who smokes, drink and shoots up heroin during his tea break and that's just entrusting my meat body to that person, I would hesitate in entrusting my eternity to the same type of person. I reckon the person's judgement may be a tad off. Exactly what mistakes would he make?

Maybe the test is --would you entrust your mental health and spiritual growth to anyone you wouldn't leave your newborn child with?
If the answer is yes, why would you treat your mind and spirit with less respect and kindness than you would give your newborn child?

I saw a show (I'm addicted to reality shows and documentaries about obese people who make a new beginning. and, no, I'm not obese.) where there was this really sweet guy, a physician. He weighed 400 pounds and was struggling with his problem. But you know what? I bet he could have prescribed an antibiotic for me if I'd needed him to.
 
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