Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded.

[CommunicatorIC]

Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously and diarrheatically retarded. An ongoing investigation.

For those more theoretically inclined, some key concepts are:

Falsifiability

Confirmation Bias

Cherry Picking

Just-so story

Correlation does not imply causation.

The placebo effect.

Some may prefer a simple (perhaps for now overly simple) example.

Gladys has cancer. She hears that the all natural, organic substance or vitamin FixItAll (tm) is a cure for cancer. She takes FixItAll. Her cancer goes into remission. Obviously, FixItAll is a cure for cancer.

She writes a Success Story.

Um, no.

It turns out that one out of 10 people who have cancer and take FixItAll go into remission. Still, people figure that a 1/10 chance is better than 0/10, and therefore taking FixItCall is a good idea.

Um, no.

Because it turns out that one out of 10 people who have cancer in Gladys' comparable group (e.g., stage of cancer, age, prior treatment history, etc.) go into remission spontaneously.

Or

It turns out that one out of 10 people who have cancer in Gladys' group (e.g., stage of cancer, age, prior treatment history, etc.) go into remission if they ingest a simple sugar pill instead of FixItAll.

So it turns out FixItAll doesn't do shit.

But it can get worse.

There is a scientifically and medically tested and statistically verified treatment for cancer. It has a success rate of 50%. But Gladys doesn't go for that because she gets her medical information from her friends on Facebook, so she opts for FixItAll. And her 50% chance of surviving cancer goes to no better than if she took fucking sugar pill.

Now, a naive person might think that Scientology couldn't possibly make this situation worse. But we know better. OF COURSE Scientology can make the situation worse. And does.

The promoters of FixItAll adopt a new rule, known as KSW --- Keeping Stupidity Working.

KSW is the irrefutable, undeniable LAW (in Scientology terms, a ser fac -- a fixed idea used to make oneself right and others wrong) that FixItAll ALWAYS works if properly applied to an ethical person. So if FixItAll does not work, it is necessarily only because it was not properly applied, or the cancer patient was not ethical. Because FixItAll always works. By definition.

So the promoters of FixItAll, exhibiting conformation bias, and cherry picking only positive results, cite only "Success Stories." And if anyone should deign to point out that FixItAll does not always work, or works no more often than a placebo or spontaneous remission, the promoters of FixItAll will get very upset, and point out that FixItAll ALWAYS works... unless it is not properly applied or the patient was unethical.

Now there are some people who do not apply the above concepts. This is because they are: (1) innocently ignorant; (2) too stupid to understand them; or (3) understand them, but are loathsome viciously immoral scum sucking pieces of shit who are trying to prey upon desperate and often less informed people.

Let's take a simple example from Scientology. Somebody does a touch assist. The "patient" feels better. Therefore, touch assists "work."

Um, no.

What the average Scientologist never thinks of, and wouldn't possibly do if he did, is to compare that case to one where the person had an identical injury, and simply let the same amount of time pass, only to find that the recovery was identical. Because, duh, many injuries get better (e.g., swelling goes down) with the passage of time, and the touch assist didn't do shit.

Or let us consider another Scientology example. Hubbard said that cancer is caused by a Second Dynamic Engram according to one of his stupendously ignorant and cretinously stupid theories. Therefore, all one needs to do to cure cancer is audit out that particular Second Dynamic Engram.

So Scientologist Phyllys declines scientifically and medically tested and statistically verified treatment for cancer, undergoes auditing as a treatment for cancer, and suffers a prolonged, excruciatingly painful and perhaps avoidable death.

And some Scientologists will quietly mutter that Phyllys was obviously out-ethics and/or the auditor screwed up, because we all know that the Tech always works when properly applied to an ethical person.

Nonetheless, there may, statistically, be a case where Dorris undergoes Second Dynamic Cancer Engram Auditing and goes into remission. Such auditing, of course, didn't do shit. She would have spontaneously gone into remission anyway (as did X% of her comparable group), but this won't stop Corporate Scientologists and Independent Scientologists -- and, indeed, perhaps some people here -- from touting her as a "Success Story." This is because, as we have learned, such people are: (1) innocently ignorant of the above concepts; (2) too stupid to understand the above concepts; or (3) understand them, but are loathsome viciously immoral scum sucking pieces of shit who are trying to prey upon desperate and often less informed people.

 

[everfree]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Hubbard appears to have avoided peer review, third party independent testing, double blind testing and other methods of avoiding observer bias, in order to USE placebo effect, confirmation bias, etc AGAINST consumers who wouldn't know better, much like the faith healers in the pentecostal church I grew up in did. I thought I was avoiding that in Scientology because you supposedly don't have to believe (in fact, CofSers are fanatical believers who tossed me when I no longer believed).

I could see very early that he was not good at science. I originally thought that he had retreated from science to mysticism because he wasn't good at it and had many basic misunderstandings about what a theory is and such. When I still thought he was a good guy who wanted to help others I thought it would fall upon someone like me who had learned scientific method at a young age and idolized John Locke (the father of empiricism and the scientific method) to set up the actual testing, validation etc along real scientific principles since he seems to have been "channeling" or some such instead of anything remotely scientific or empirical like I thought it was going to be.

I see KSW as breeding certainty without prior observation, which is backwards to empiricism. One observes, one takes steps to avoid bias, THEN one can have certainty. Without observation coming first only fanaticism can occur. KSW is an implanted observation bias held in place by threat of eternal damnation and the promise of eternal reward.

 

[CommunicatorIC]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

I could see very early that he was not good at science. I originally thought that he had retreated from science to mysticism because he wasn't good at it and had many basic misunderstandings about what a theory is and such.

Hubbard's early lectures show that he was aware of the scientific method, falsifiability (although he didn't use that term) or at least verification, and he actually attacked others for their appeals to authority and lack of testable hypothesis.

I have no idea whether Hubbard was good at science. I can't form an opinion because he never tried to do science. He never applied the scientific method because he couldn't stand to be proven wrong.

KSW No. 1 makes, and is clearly designed to make, application of the scientific method to Hubbard's theories impossible. There is nothing less scientific -- indeed, anti-scientific -- than to adopt an irrefutable presumption that a theory is correct (or "workable") and that if it didn't work in a particular circumstance it is only because it was applied incorrectly, or you did something wrong, or were unethical, etc. At least in the world of Scientology, KSW No. 1 makes testing Hubbard's theories impossible. There is always yet another excuse, another rationalization, another just-so story.

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Hubbard's early lectures show that he was aware of the scientific method, falsifiability (although he didn't use that term) or at least verification, and he actually attacked others for their appeals to authority and lack of testable hypothesis.

I have no idea whether Hubbard was good at science. I can't form an opinion because he never tried to do science. He never applied the scientific method because he couldn't stand to be proven wrong.

KSW No. 1 makes, and is clearly designed to make, application of the scientific method to Hubbard's theories impossible. There is nothing less scientific -- indeed, anti-scientific -- than to adopt an irrefutable presumption that a theory is correct (or "workable") and that if it didn't work in a particular circumstance it is only because it was applied incorrectly, or you did something wrong, or were unethical, etc. At least in the world of Scientology, KSW No. 1 makes testing Hubbard's theories impossible. There is always yet another excuse, another rationalization, another just-so story.

DMSMH is pure assertion without evidence. SOS is pure assertion without evidence............ditto otiii............need I go on?

 

[Terril park]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously and diarrheatically retarded. An ongoing investigation.

For those more theoretically inclined, some key concepts are:

Falsifiability

Confirmation Bias

Cherry Picking

Just-so story

Correlation does not imply causation.

The placebo effect.

Some may prefer a simple (perhaps for now overly simple) example.

Gladys has cancer. She hears that the all natural, organic substance or vitamin FixItAll (tm) is a cure for cancer. She takes FixItAll. Her cancer goes into remission. Obviously, FixItAll is a cure for cancer.

She writes a Success Story.

Um, no.

It turns out that one out of 10 people who have cancer and take FixItAll go into remission. Still, people figure that a 1/10 chance is better than 0/10, and therefore taking FixItCall is a good idea.

Um, no.

Because it turns out that one out of 10 people who have cancer in Gladys' comparable group (e.g., stage of cancer, age, prior treatment history, etc.) go into remission spontaneously.

Or

It turns out that one out of 10 people who have cancer in Gladys' group (e.g., stage of cancer, age, prior treatment history, etc.) go into remission if they ingest a simple sugar pill instead of FixItAll.

So it turns out FixItAll doesn't do shit.

But it can get worse.

There is a scientifically and medically tested and statistically verified treatment for cancer. It has a success rate of 50%. But Gladys doesn't go for that because she gets her medical information from her friends on Facebook, so she opts for FixItAll. And her 50% chance of surviving cancer goes to no better than if she took fucking sugar pill.

Now, a naive person might think that Scientology couldn't possibly make this situation worse. But we know better. OF COURSE Scientology can make the situation worse. And does.

The promoters of FixItAll adopt a new rule, known as KSW --- Keeping Stupidity Working.

KSW is the irrefutable, undeniable LAW (in Scientology terms, a ser fac -- a fixed idea used to make oneself right and others wrong) that FixItAll ALWAYS works if properly applied to an ethical person. So if FixItAll does not work, it is necessarily only because it was not properly applied, or the cancer patient was not ethical. Because FixItAll always works. By definition.

So the promoters of FixItAll, exhibiting conformation bias, and cherry picking only positive results, cite only "Success Stories." And if anyone should deign to point out that FixItAll does not always work, or works no more often than a placebo or spontaneous remission, the promoters of FixItAll will get very upset, and point out that FixItAll ALWAYS works... unless it is not properly applied or the patient was unethical.

Now there are some people who do not apply the above concepts. This is because they are: (1) innocently ignorant; (2) too stupid to understand them; or (3) understand them, but are loathsome viciously immoral scum sucking pieces of shit who are trying to prey upon desperate and often less informed people.

Let's take a simple example from Scientology. Somebody does a touch assist. The "patient" feels better. Therefore, touch assists "work."

Um, no.

What the average Scientologist never thinks of, and wouldn't possibly do if he did, is to compare that case to one where the person had an identical injury, and simply let the same amount of time pass, only to find that the recovery was identical. Because, duh, many injuries get better (e.g., swelling goes down) with the passage of time, and the touch assist didn't do shit.

Or let us consider another Scientology example. Hubbard said that cancer is caused by a Second Dynamic Engram according to one of his stupendously ignorant and cretinously stupid theories. Therefore, all one needs to do to cure cancer is audit out that particular Second Dynamic Engram.

So Scientologist Phyllys declines scientifically and medically tested and statistically verified treatment for cancer, undergoes auditing as a treatment for cancer, and suffers a prolonged, excruciatingly painful and perhaps avoidable death.

And some Scientologists will quietly mutter that Phyllys was obviously out-ethics and/or the auditor screwed up, because we all know that the Tech always works when properly applied to an ethical person.

Nonetheless, there may, statistically, be a case where Dorris undergoes Second Dynamic Cancer Engram Auditing and goes into remission. Such auditing, of course, didn't do shit. She would have spontaneously gone into remission anyway (as did X% of her comparable group), but this won't stop Corporate Scientologists and Independent Scientologists -- and, indeed, perhaps some people here -- from touting her as a "Success Story." This is because, as we have learned, such people are: (1) innocently ignorant of the above concepts; (2) too stupid to understand the above concepts; or (3) understand them, but are loathsome viciously immoral scum sucking pieces of shit who are trying to prey upon desperate and often less informed people.

Much to agree with and also disagree with. I'm not a big fan of
KSW1, however its a good guide to getting a technology in a
factory for example to work.

Clearly this tech at Clearwater is not working and has not
for a long time. Per customer statements.

They fuck it up big time. Per customer statements and lets
say volume of new clients.

CO$ constantly makes things worse. Per customer statements.

Per touch assists they can work. Few ever worked on me
though.

Gave one once decades ago to someone who fell down. She
thought her back was broken [it wasn't] and I cured her. In
less than 5 mins. Per her customer statement.

Generally Scn dosn't do well in the medical field. Speeds
up healing? Maybe.

The best collection of successes are those I posted here.
I virtually never edited them. Many, perhaps 25%, are
spontaneous posts on my forums that I asked if I could post
Perhaps only 50% were asked for after session. Ball park
figures.

 

[Gib]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Much to agree with and also disagree with. I'm not a big fan of
KSW1, however its a good guide to getting a technology in a
factory for example to work.

Clearly this tech at Clearwater is not working and has not
for a long time. Per customer statements.

They fuck it up big time. Per customer statements and lets
say volume of new clients.

CO$ constantly makes things worse. Per customer statements.

Per touch assists they can work. Few ever worked on me
though.

Gave one once decades ago to someone who fell down. She
thought her back was broken [it wasn't] and I cured her. In
less than 5 mins. Per her customer statement.

Generally Scn dosn't do well in the medical field. Speeds
up healing? Maybe.

The best collection of successes are those I posted here.
I virtually never edited them. Many, perhaps 25%, are
spontaneous posts on my forums that I asked if I could post
Perhaps only 50% were asked for after session. Ball park
figures.

You cured her?

What if somebody just said let me call 911, don't move, lets wait for the paramedics to arrive. A few minutes later the person says, oh, it was a lot of pain, but I'm OK now. I can move.

 

[Techless]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Much to agree with and also disagree with. I'm not a big fan of
KSW1, however its a good guide to getting a technology in a
factory for example to work.

Clearly this tech at Clearwater is not working and has not
for a long time. Per customer statements.

They fuck it up big time. Per customer statements and lets
say volume of new clients.

CO$ constantly makes things worse. Per customer statements.

Per touch assists they can work. Few ever worked on me
though.

Gave one once decades ago to someone who fell down. She
thought her back was broken [it wasn't] and I cured her. In
less than 5 mins. Per her customer statement.

Generally Scn dosn't do well in the medical field. Speeds
up healing? Maybe.

The best collection of successes are those I posted here.
I virtually never edited them. Many, perhaps 25%, are
spontaneous posts on my forums that I asked if I could post
Perhaps only 50% were asked for after session. Ball park
figures.

Saying: "I'm not a big fan of KSW1, however its a good guide to getting a technology in a factory for example to work."

WithScnSpin: I'm not a big fan of KSW1, however its a good guide to getting a [STRIKE]technology[/STRIKE] HUMAN in a [STRIKE]factory[/STRIKE] CHERCH for example to work-donate-sacrifice, etc

it (KSW) was never designed for machines in factories. It was devised to control people, AND never worked at all!

And is the reason Hubbtard had to give up on the 'real science' angle and morph into a 'religious' scam. He obviously didn't know science, or this wouldn't have become the early mantra...

Plz: no comparisons of "You can be Right Too" to...let me think up something...ah...quantum physics.

That's where the whole thing breaks down, falls apart...at the very beginning! The rest is just for those having gotten thru the first few things WITHOUT THINKING (like all of us).

Easy enuff to see in hindsight though - eh?

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

You cured her?

What if somebody just said let me call 911, don't move, lets wait for the paramedics to arrive. A few minutes later the person says, oh, it was a lot of pain, but I'm OK now. I can move.

Just curious - do you think things ike faith healing or mind over matter or healing through visualization ever happen?

 

[Udarnik]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously and diarrheatically retarded. An ongoing investigation.

For those more theoretically inclined, some key concepts are:

Falsifiability

Confirmation Bias

Cherry Picking

Just-so story

Correlation does not imply causation.

The placebo effect.

Some may prefer a simple (perhaps for now overly simple) example.

Gladys has cancer. She hears that the all natural, organic substance or vitamin FixItAll (tm) is a cure for cancer. She takes FixItAll. Her cancer goes into remission. Obviously, FixItAll is a cure for cancer.

She writes a Success Story.

Um, no.

It turns out that one out of 10 people who have cancer and take FixItAll go into remission. Still, people figure that a 1/10 chance is better than 0/10, and therefore taking FixItCall is a good idea.

Um, no.

Because it turns out that one out of 10 people who have cancer in Gladys' comparable group (e.g., stage of cancer, age, prior treatment history, etc.) go into remission spontaneously.

Or

It turns out that one out of 10 people who have cancer in Gladys' group (e.g., stage of cancer, age, prior treatment history, etc.) go into remission if they ingest a simple sugar pill instead of FixItAll.

So it turns out FixItAll doesn't do shit.

But it can get worse.

There is a scientifically and medically tested and statistically verified treatment for cancer. It has a success rate of 50%. But Gladys doesn't go for that because she gets her medical information from her friends on Facebook, so she opts for FixItAll. And her 50% chance of surviving cancer goes to no better than if she took fucking sugar pill.

Now, a naive person might think that Scientology couldn't possibly make this situation worse. But we know better. OF COURSE Scientology can make the situation worse. And does.

The promoters of FixItAll adopt a new rule, known as KSW --- Keeping Stupidity Working.

KSW is the irrefutable, undeniable LAW (in Scientology terms, a ser fac -- a fixed idea used to make oneself right and others wrong) that FixItAll ALWAYS works if properly applied to an ethical person. So if FixItAll does not work, it is necessarily only because it was not properly applied, or the cancer patient was not ethical. Because FixItAll always works. By definition.

So the promoters of FixItAll, exhibiting conformation bias, and cherry picking only positive results, cite only "Success Stories." And if anyone should deign to point out that FixItAll does not always work, or works no more often than a placebo or spontaneous remission, the promoters of FixItAll will get very upset, and point out that FixItAll ALWAYS works... unless it is not properly applied or the patient was unethical.

Now there are some people who do not apply the above concepts. This is because they are: (1) innocently ignorant; (2) too stupid to understand them; or (3) understand them, but are loathsome viciously immoral scum sucking pieces of shit who are trying to prey upon desperate and often less informed people.

Let's take a simple example from Scientology. Somebody does a touch assist. The "patient" feels better. Therefore, touch assists "work."

Um, no.

What the average Scientologist never thinks of, and wouldn't possibly do if he did, is to compare that case to one where the person had an identical injury, and simply let the same amount of time pass, only to find that the recovery was identical. Because, duh, many injuries get better (e.g., swelling goes down) with the passage of time, and the touch assist didn't do shit.

Or let us consider another Scientology example. Hubbard said that cancer is caused by a Second Dynamic Engram according to one of his stupendously ignorant and cretinously stupid theories. Therefore, all one needs to do to cure cancer is audit out that particular Second Dynamic Engram.

So Scientologist Phyllys declines scientifically and medically tested and statistically verified treatment for cancer, undergoes auditing as a treatment for cancer, and suffers a prolonged, excruciatingly painful and perhaps avoidable death.

And some Scientologists will quietly mutter that Phyllys was obviously out-ethics and/or the auditor screwed up, because we all know that the Tech always works when properly applied to an ethical person.

Nonetheless, there may, statistically, be a case where Dorris undergoes Second Dynamic Cancer Engram Auditing and goes into remission. Such auditing, of course, didn't do shit. She would have spontaneously gone into remission anyway (as did X% of her comparable group), but this won't stop Corporate Scientologists and Independent Scientologists -- and, indeed, perhaps some people here -- from touting her as a "Success Story." This is because, as we have learned, such people are: (1) innocently ignorant of the above concepts; (2) too stupid to understand the above concepts; or (3) understand them, but are loathsome viciously immoral scum sucking pieces of shit who are trying to prey upon desperate and often less informed people.

Thank you. You just laid out the reasons why medical scientists conduct placebo-controlled double-blind trials where possible. Medical scientists realize we're no less prone to confirmation bias than other people. The difference is, we try our very best to eliminate that bias from our experiments.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Let's take a simple example from Scientology. Somebody does a touch assist. The "patient" feels better. Therefore, touch assists "work."

Um, no.

What the average Scientologist never thinks of, and wouldn't possibly do if he did, is to compare that case to one where the person had an identical injury, and simply let the same amount of time pass, only to find that the recovery was identical. Because, duh, many injuries get better (e.g., swelling goes down) with the passage of time, and the touch assist didn't do shit.

Why so black and white?

I've given and received dozens of touch assists. Most of the time they did nothing noticeable; a few times they produced wow!-type instant improvements (instant = during the assist). I have my own ideas about why they work, which I have discussed on ESMB before but they don't really belong here. The point is that in my experience sometimes a touch assist produces a wow! instant result, where cause and effect are pretty clear, but most of the time one doesn't do dick. It's not an all-or-nothing case of "touch assists work" or "touch assists don't work."

Paul

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Why so black and white?

I've given and received dozens of touch assists. Most of the time they did nothing noticeable; a few times they produced wow!-type instant improvements (instant = during the assist). I have my own ideas about why they work, which I have discussed on ESMB before but they don't really belong here. The point is that in my experience sometimes a touch assist produces a wow! instant result, where cause and effect are pretty clear, but most of the time one doesn't do dick. It's not an all-or-nothing case of "touch assists work" or "touch assists don't work."

Paul

Placebo effect. Without quantification and analysis all you have is anecdote not data.

 

[everfree]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

DMSMH is pure assertion without evidence. SOS is pure assertion without evidence............ditto otiii............need I go on?

Correct. Not evidence based, no transparent research methods compared against control groups to account for bias. Assertions and claims only. He appears to have been"channeling" instead of research working backwards from the evidence.

I was really interested in his research methodology initially, so I was excited when the Research and Discovery books started coming out. Imagine my surprise that they mostly just contain more lecture transcripts with a few demonstrations. He could sure lecture, but that is not research.

 

[everfree]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Placebo effect. Without quantification and analysis all you have is anecdote not data.

Correct. There is no comparison to a control group there is no accounting for bias. I consider it highly probable that he avoided such things on purpose because he was TRYING to instill expectation bias on purpose, because it is part of hypnotizing people, not correct observation.

Frankly, if someone is avoiding peer review like Hubbard appeared to avoid, you just can't trust them, they could be up to anything and in my experience usually are. I would think if he thought the fate of the universe was really at stake, that he would want to get a second opinion and have his work checked over for error. I know I do, when the stakes are much lower than the fate of the entire universe.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Placebo effect. Without quantification and analysis all you have is anecdote not data.

Looks like anti-KSW muppetry to me.

KSW Muppet: Process had a bad result -- process wasn't done correctly.

Anti-KSW Muppet: Process had a good result -- placebo effect.​

Paul

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Looks like anti-KSW muppetry to me.

KSW Muppet: Process had a bad result -- process wasn't done correctly.

Anti-KSW Muppet: Process had a good result -- placebo effect.​

Paul

Horseshit. Period. Pure horseshit. Data please. Repeatable predictable results please. Pro scn is shit. Period. If you think differently, you have shit for brains. Critical thinking negates scn totally. Science negates scn totally.

 

[everfree]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Looks like anti-KSW muppetry to me.

KSW Muppet: Process had a bad result -- process wasn't done correctly.

Anti-KSW Muppet: Process had a good result -- placebo effect.​

Paul

No, process starts with expectation bias of "workability" which induces placebo effect, instead of being open to any possible outcome like an empirically-based real scientist and observing the result with care to avoid any expectation bias or error by comparison to a control.

Coupled with using fear of eternal damnation and hope for eternal reward - just like the old time religions - to power the expectation bias. That adds up to a hypnotic spell, to me, to inculcate certainty without prior observation (which is delusion).

 

[MrNobody]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Much to agree with and also disagree with. I'm not a big fan of
KSW1, however its a good guide to getting a technology in a
factory for example to work. <snip>

I've worked in more factories than I'm willing to count. None of 'em used any KSWwhatever nor any other "Hubbardian 'tech'" and the vast majority of 'em worked damn fine. In the few cases of factories not working fine, ANY application of ANY Hubbardian "tech" would have very probably meant either a slow and agonizing or an instant death for that factory.

But of course you don't have to believe me - just go ahead, buy a factory and apply Hubbardian "tech". Go ahead, prove me wrong!



MrN, wood worker, machine builder, eletrician, circuit designer, painter/laquerer, Datenverarbeitungskaufmann (certified), Database developer (certified), Programmer, SAP R3 Organisator/Consultant Fi/Co (Financials and Controlling) (certified) and a lot more factory experience under my belt than you could possibly imagine. A few more certificates too, just in case that should mean something to you

 

[AnonyMary]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously and diarrheatically retarded. An ongoing investigation.

For those more theoretically inclined, some key concepts are:

Falsifiability

Confirmation Bias

Cherry Picking

Just-so story

Correlation does not imply causation.

The placebo effect.

Some may prefer a simple (perhaps for now overly simple) example.

Gladys has cancer. She hears that the all natural, organic substance or vitamin FixItAll (tm) is a cure for cancer. She takes FixItAll. Her cancer goes into remission. Obviously, FixItAll is a cure for cancer.

She writes a Success Story.

Um, no.

It turns out that one out of 10 people who have cancer and take FixItAll go into remission. Still, people figure that a 1/10 chance is better than 0/10, and therefore taking FixItCall is a good idea.

Um, no.

Because it turns out that one out of 10 people who have cancer in Gladys' comparable group (e.g., stage of cancer, age, prior treatment history, etc.) go into remission spontaneously.

Or

It turns out that one out of 10 people who have cancer in Gladys' group (e.g., stage of cancer, age, prior treatment history, etc.) go into remission if they ingest a simple sugar pill instead of FixItAll.

So it turns out FixItAll doesn't do shit.

But it can get worse.

There is a scientifically and medically tested and statistically verified treatment for cancer. It has a success rate of 50%. But Gladys doesn't go for that because she gets her medical information from her friends on Facebook, so she opts for FixItAll. And her 50% chance of surviving cancer goes to no better than if she took fucking sugar pill.

Now, a naive person might think that Scientology couldn't possibly make this situation worse. But we know better. OF COURSE Scientology can make the situation worse. And does.

The promoters of FixItAll adopt a new rule, known as KSW --- Keeping Stupidity Working.

KSW is the irrefutable, undeniable LAW (in Scientology terms, a ser fac -- a fixed idea used to make oneself right and others wrong) that FixItAll ALWAYS works if properly applied to an ethical person. So if FixItAll does not work, it is necessarily only because it was not properly applied, or the cancer patient was not ethical. Because FixItAll always works. By definition.

So the promoters of FixItAll, exhibiting conformation bias, and cherry picking only positive results, cite only "Success Stories." And if anyone should deign to point out that FixItAll does not always work, or works no more often than a placebo or spontaneous remission, the promoters of FixItAll will get very upset, and point out that FixItAll ALWAYS works... unless it is not properly applied or the patient was unethical.

Now there are some people who do not apply the above concepts. This is because they are: (1) innocently ignorant; (2) too stupid to understand them; or (3) understand them, but are loathsome viciously immoral scum sucking pieces of shit who are trying to prey upon desperate and often less informed people.

Let's take a simple example from Scientology. Somebody does a touch assist. The "patient" feels better. Therefore, touch assists "work."

Um, no.

What the average Scientologist never thinks of, and wouldn't possibly do if he did, is to compare that case to one where the person had an identical injury, and simply let the same amount of time pass, only to find that the recovery was identical. Because, duh, many injuries get better (e.g., swelling goes down) with the passage of time, and the touch assist didn't do shit.

Or let us consider another Scientology example. Hubbard said that cancer is caused by a Second Dynamic Engram according to one of his stupendously ignorant and cretinously stupid theories. Therefore, all one needs to do to cure cancer is audit out that particular Second Dynamic Engram.

So Scientologist Phyllys declines scientifically and medically tested and statistically verified treatment for cancer, undergoes auditing as a treatment for cancer, and suffers a prolonged, excruciatingly painful and perhaps avoidable death.

And some Scientologists will quietly mutter that Phyllys was obviously out-ethics and/or the auditor screwed up, because we all know that the Tech always works when properly applied to an ethical person.

Nonetheless, there may, statistically, be a case where Dorris undergoes Second Dynamic Cancer Engram Auditing and goes into remission. Such auditing, of course, didn't do shit. She would have spontaneously gone into remission anyway (as did X% of her comparable group), but this won't stop Corporate Scientologists and Independent Scientologists -- and, indeed, perhaps some people here -- from touting her as a "Success Story." This is because, as we have learned, such people are: (1) innocently ignorant of the above concepts; (2) too stupid to understand the above concepts; or (3) understand them, but are loathsome viciously immoral scum sucking pieces of shit who are trying to prey upon desperate and often less informed people.

Did you author this, Communicator I/C ?

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

I've worked in more factories than I'm willing to count. None of 'em used any KSWwhatever nor any other "Hubbardian 'tech'" and the vast majority of 'em worked damn fine. In the few cases of factories not working fine, ANY application of ANY Hubbardian "tech" would have very probably meant either a slow and agonizing or an instant death for that factory.

But of course you don't have to believe me - just go ahead, buy a factory and apply Hubbardian "tech". Go ahead, prove me wrong!



MrN, wood worker, machine builder, eletrician, circuit designer, painter/laquerer, Datenverarbeitungskaufmann (certified), Database developer (certified), Programmer, SAP R3 Organisator/Consultant Fi/Co (Financials and Controlling) (certified) and a lot more factory experience under my belt than you could possibly imagine. A few more certificates too, just in case that should mean something to you

KSW isn't really straight "admin". It's more an anti squirrelling manifesto. Not that that's an excuse.

Funny you should mention Scn management /admin...some other exes and I were just recently conversing about hoe companies do just fine without it.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: Why the Scientology combination of Success Stories and KSW is vomitously retarded

KSW isn't really straight "admin". It's more an anti squirrelling manifesto. Not that that's an excuse.

Funny you should mention Scn management /admin...some other exes and I were just recently conversing about hoe companies do just fine without it.

It wasn't me who mentioned it 1st, it was Terril:

Much to agree with and also disagree with. I'm not a big fan of
KSW1, however its a good guide to getting a technology in a
factory for example to work.
<snip>

What I wanted to express with my lengthy drivel, was that I don't believe that any form of Hubbard-tech could do any good, neither to humans nor to factories.

Under certain circumstances, it may be able to give certain humans a certain feel-good attitude, but that's about it, IMO. The downside of that: That feel-good attitude is inevitably poisoned with the rest of Hubbards dreck and therefore always counter-productive or worse.

That's how I see it.