Will Greg Wilhere, the remaining "right hand man", stand up to David Miscavige?

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
I think a longer range historial view about Hubbard and Scientology, what has happened, why Scientology is where it is today, is best done by a LOT of reading, and re-reading.

I highly recommend carefully reading, and possibly re-reading ALL of the long list of books and papers on Scientology.

Look up Professor Dave Touretzky's Carnegie Mellon University site, where he has the online printed versions of most of the great critical books.

My pick of the best scholars' books are "Renunciation and Reformulation" by Harriet Whitehead, cheaply acquired on Amazon for less than 10 bucks. And my all time favorite is "The Road to Total Freedom" by the deceased but brilliant Roy Wallis, which is hard to find and about 100 bucks on Amazon, but worth it, if you want to really see a topnotch intellectual take on Hubbard Scientology.

IN summary, after all my reading, I was and still am a heavily infected Hubbard policy wonk nerd (me in my "heyday" --
http://tinyurl.com/295khy ), my summary view of how to quickly accurately define current official Scientology is:

Scientology is science fictionesque Hinduism Gnosticism Freudian type (one on one, and one to oneself) high volume dead space alien exorcism therapy.

It's a dead alien exorcism therapy religion in it's purest highest practiced religious practice format.

And if there is "any" genius to Hubbard, it's his overwhelming output that smothers people from correctly characterizing what Scientology is and what it has become.

It's also in the church structures, it's turned into a Stalinist totalitarian 1984 operation at the Sea Org management echelon.

Whether it slowly "normalizes" in the decades to come, once David Miscavige, current Stalin dictator of Scientology management, as David exits the stage, it will be seen if the two top councils whom Hubbard in his final years wrote SHOULD be managing the church, regain their managerial "coordinating committee" leadership control, and replace this dictatorial period that Miscavige personally has driven the Sea Org top management to currently in the last 25ish years into, it IS to be seen what the next round of Scientology Sea Org "top management" do.

I hope, as a former trainer of church execs, that they get back to the more benign Hubbard administrative scriptural executive policies that were focused on by a training course that Greg Wilhere once compiled in the late 1970s, called the "Special Executive Briefing Course."

Greg, then the Commanding Officer of the original Int Training Org, in 1978, at Clearwater when it was formed, Greg compiled a checksheet that focused on some of LRH's wiser (?) more benign executive policies of the pre 1965 period. For instance the one where LRH said only "call on the carpet" one's subordinates in private.

Greg, when he compiled that checksheet, was even then conscious of the good and bad executiving going on in even up to then, 1978, Sea Org history.

That checksheet was quickly blasted, and so was Greg, for it.

Greg's since become the other "right hand man" to Miscavige in the intervening years, and today, my hope is Greg just MIGHT be sufficiently punished by Miscavige, and pushed to stand UP to Miscavige.

If somehow we get message to Greg, that we want HIM to stand up to, and stand DOWN Miscavige, I know this is so unlikely.

But Greg's background has a fair amount of regular world history that MIGHT be still there down in Greg's soul (I'm an atheist, I speak figuratively here).

Greg WAS quarterback for Villanova Univ. He was Commanding Officer and successfully, of DC Org. He was Commanding Officer of the Flag Service Org. He was CO ITO (Int Training Org). He was ASI staff, he's a Class 12, he was the Inspector General when there was a triad IG office setup for RTC in the late 1980s, Greg being IG, Marty being IG Ethics, Marc Yager being IG Admin, and Ray Mitoff being IG Tech).

I've heard though, that Greg's got serious skeletons in the closet from some pretty BAD transgressions he committed at David Miscavige's Statinesque direction, which likely will hinder and keep Greg in his advanced Stockholm syndrome mindset fauningly propitiative to David Miscavige.

Greg's grandfater was a famous Irish boxer. So, in my atheist "MEST" view of us, I think it is "in" Greg to stand UP to Miscavige.

I know that physically, Greg's a foot taller, he's a J. Crew aging male model physique, and he could whump David Miscavige in a fair fight pretty quickly.

But, history proves that those that Miscavige DUMPS on too heavily, finally say enough, and turn on Miscavige.

My hope is Greg does the same. If Miscavige dumps too heavily on Greg, then Greg just MIGHT stand up on Miscavige.

will he? If Greg knew he had this growing outside community of Scientology watchers, wishful hopes for him to topple Miscavige, then Greg at least knows the outside world knows Miscavige is NOT what this world wants in any shape or form.

Since this is a gradual battle against Scientology's evolved systematic human rights abuses, I think the stage of toppling somehow Mr. David Miscavige is something all agree on, whichever method accomplishes that.

I've hoped this same hope, and wrote it up several years ago, I think on Clambake or on ARS.

I'm hoping it again.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
No, he won't. He'll cower, then run away, and then think about it for twenty years or until he dies, without ever doing anything about it.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
No, he won't. He'll cower, then run away, and then think about it for twenty years or until he dies, without ever doing anything about it.

(Wait, UM said this already!)

But I agree.

The CoS will end badly. DM will flee to "another country" from whence he may try to continue to run the CoS. But it won't work. And he'll whinge on and on and on about all the suppressives oppressing him.

In his wake he will leave a very confused bunch of staff and public. The CoS will look like an anthill somebody has stepped on, trying to figure out which way to run, where to go, what to do.

It will be ugly.

How do I know this? I am prescient. This is already one of my past lives.

TG1
 

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
No, he won't. He'll cower, then run away, and then think about it for twenty years or until he dies, without ever doing anything about it.

(Wait, UM said this already!)

But I agree.

The CoS will end badly. DM will flee to "another country" from whence he may try to continue to run the CoS. But it won't work. And he'll whinge on and on and on about all the suppressives oppressing him.

In his wake he will leave a very confused bunch of staff and public. The CoS will look like an anthill somebody has stepped on, trying to figure out which way to run, where to go, what to do.

It will be ugly.

How do I know this? I am prescient. This is already one of my past lives.

TG1

Nice. The stepped on anthill picture.

Who's the foot?
 

nozeno

Gold Meritorious Patron
I doubt that he will.

He always seemed uncomfortable wearing the "tough guy" hat.
 

Mystic

Crusader
The levels of madness achieved by these people is...is what? Pitiful? Facepalming? Regrettable? Sick? All these, and more.

There are no STATES of "OT". There is no STATE of "Clear". No one is infested with space aliens. All that hubbard-spew is but a nightmare AND THESE PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE IT????

IF they still believe it, well, they have achieved MORE THAN LOST.

If they don't believe but are knowingly continuing to pull off the scam, well, they have achieved MORE THAN LOST.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Wondering.......

Could we possibly LURE Greg out with the right bait?

Perhaps a Classified Ad in the Scientology PennySaver?

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Are you thinking of blowing because the Old Man would have wanted it that way? Are you playing Sinatra's "MY WAY" over and over during study time while people think you are listening to COB taped lectures? Do you want to Clear the planet with Marty and ten million other on-Source Operating Thetans? You may qualify for your own totally free Tech Shack. Just download an application at our website and we'll let you know right away! http:/www.freetechshackosaopforcob.com
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Carmel

Crusader
In the late 90's I hoped that he would coz I thought he was someone who could and should, but that was before I knew what was going on and how much he and others were contributing to the whole shebang, and before I knew what the whole shebang was about.

From all reports, Greg's gone too far south and his mindset would need some serious work before he *could*. In addition to that though, toppling DM wouldn't change the system.

I loved and admired Greg. He was a good man and a very capable one when I knew him. I understand your hope.
 

Carmel

Crusader
No, he won't. He'll cower, then run away, and then think about it for twenty years or until he dies, without ever doing anything about it.
I have the hope that he will run away, and, after time, unlike others, be someone who *would* do something about it.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Nice. The stepped on anthill picture.

Who's the foot?

Chuck, I really don't know what's going to happen. I was just havin' fun.

However, in that scenario, I think the foot is DM's foot. He's going to trip himself up and splat on it.

He has all the power at CoS. But he won't share it with anybody, and he's using it pitifully. Everybody else there seems to be terrified of him. From where I sit he looks like a crazy person. I think his paranoia will drive him into a self-imposed exile.

And when he leaves there's nobody left worth warm spit. Who would take over? The kids? Nope. The old folks? Nope - they left or were de-gonaded long ago.

Despite the dominant sentiment around here -- look out, everybody, here it comes, the M word! -- it's clear to me Marty doesn't want it. And even if he did I don't think any CoS public left after DM leaves would welcome him.

BTW, just think what a wonderful solution it would be for most remaining CoS public and staff if DM just disappeared. It would solve all their problems that they can't talk about now. And they'd STILL never have to talk about 'em. IMHO, I think most CoS public still left there are going to require several lifetimes just to stop being too embarrassed to look in the mirror.

You see, I think the CoS is dead already. But, like the Germanic tribes in the early scenes of "Gladiator," it just doesn't know it yet.

There, that's the third longest post I've ever made.

TG1
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Personally, I liked Greg!

But, then again, if I had been living in another country in another time I probably would have hung out in pubs with Herman Goering laughing and drinking beers.

article-1169882-0471529F000005DC-472_468x658.jpg


From WikiPedia: Göring was one of the key figures in the process of Gleichschaltung ("forcible coordination") that established the Nazi dictatorship. For example, in 1933, Göring banned all Roman Catholic newspapers in Germany, not only to suppress resistance to National Socialism but also to deprive the population of alternative forms of association and means of political communication.​


"Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

225px-Goering1932.jpg

Psychs & SP's & Squirrels, Oh My!


"Whenever I hear the word culture, I reach for my Browning."
AHGoeringFMF.jpg

Sir! These highest ever stats prove we are winning and clearing das planet!​
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
And if there is "any" genius to Hubbard, it's his overwhelming output that smothers people from correctly characterizing what Scientology is and what it has become.

It's also in the church structures, it's turned into a Stalinist totalitarian 1984 operation at the Sea Org management echelon.

Whether it slowly "normalizes" in the decades to come, once David Miscavige, current Stalin dictator of Scientology management, as David exits the stage, it will be seen if the two top councils whom Hubbard in his final years wrote SHOULD be managing the church, regain their managerial "coordinating committee" leadership control, and replace this dictatorial period that Miscavige personally has driven the Sea Org top management to currently in the last 25ish years into, it IS to be seen what the next round of Scientology Sea Org "top management" do.

I hope, as a former trainer of church execs, that they get back to the more benign Hubbard administrative scriptural executive policies that were focused on by a training course that Greg Wilhere once compiled in the late 1970s, called the "Special Executive Briefing Course."

I don't think it CAN move away from the current Stalinesque operating basis, for many of the same reasons that Stalin was forced to behave the way he did after Lenin died.

Hubbard, like Lenin, was a unique individual, with a lot of personal charm and charisma. Hubbard was able to form the organization from a point where the only power he had was his ability to persuade people to voluntarily follow him, when he had no ability to punish anybody who didn't want to do what he said.

DM, like Stalin, rose to the top of the organization through his ability to convince the Top Man to trust him with power, by his happening to be in the right place when the Top Man became increasingly incapacitated, and by his acting with complete ruthlessness when the time came to grab power. The parallels are interesting:
Lenin still considered Stalin to be a loyal ally, and when he got mired in squabbles with Trotsky and other politicians, he decided to give Stalin more power. With the help of Kamenev, Lenin had Stalin appointed as General Secretary in 1922.[11] This post allowed Stalin to appoint many of his allies to government positions.

Lenin suffered a stroke in 1922, forcing him into semi-retirement in Gorki. Stalin visited him often, acting as his intermediary with the outside world.[11] The pair quarreled and their relationship deteriorated.[11] Lenin dictated increasingly disparaging notes on Stalin in what would become his testament. He criticized Stalin's rude manners, excessive power, ambition and politics, and suggested that Stalin should be removed from the position of General Secretary.[11] During Lenin's semi-retirement, Stalin forged an alliance with Kamenev and Grigory Zinoviev against Trotsky. These allies prevented Lenin's Testament from being revealed to the Twelfth Party Congress in April 1923.[11]

Lenin died of a heart attack on 21 January 1924. Thereafter, Stalin's disputes with Kamenev and Zinoviev intensified. Trotsky, Kamenev and Zinoviev grew increasingly isolated, and were eventually ejected from the Central Committee and then from the Party itself.[11] Kamenev and Zinoviev were later readmitted, but Trotsky was exiled from the Soviet Union.
DM doesn't really have much charm. The only thing keeping him on top is his ability to intimidate people. Scn is doomed to become increasingly totalitarian as DM tries to retain power, until DM drives the last of the wealty public away and it all comes crashing down.
 
I don't think it CAN move away from the current Stalinesque operating basis, for many of the same reasons that Stalin was forced to behave the way he did after Lenin died.

Hubbard, like Lenin, was a unique individual, with a lot of personal charm and charisma. Hubbard was able to form the organization from a point where the only power he had was his ability to persuade people to voluntarily follow him, when he had no ability to punish anybody who didn't want to do what he said.

DM, like Stalin, rose to the top of the organization through his ability to convince the Top Man to trust him with power, by his happening to be in the right place when the Top Man became increasingly incapacitated, and by his acting with complete ruthlessness when the time came to grab power. The parallels are interesting:

DM doesn't really have much charm. The only thing keeping him on top is his ability to intimidate people. Scn is doomed to become increasingly totalitarian as DM tries to retain power, until DM drives the last of the wealty public away and it all comes crashing down.

You made a real good analogy and assesment.

Greg Wilhere is DMs Kaganovich. Greg is still around because he is loyal to Miscavige.

And Tommy Davis is Miscavige's Zhdanov. Watch what happens to him.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Well I have Gregs video re L's tech.

Cool and all that.

IMO he's gone to the dark side.

He needs rescuing.

I'm available.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
You made a real good analogy and assesment.

Greg Wilhere is DMs Kaganovich. Greg is still around because he is loyal to Miscavige.

And Tommy Davis is Miscavige's Zhdanov. Watch what happens to him.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Scientology wasn't always Stalinesque. In the 50's and early 60's, it was expanding rapidly because auditors were able to do things for PCs that PCs liked enough to pay for. It appears like it was Wild West free market, with LRH unable to enforce his will except by persuasion and charisma. Those auditors who were able to get results stayed as auditors, and the ones unable to get results dropped out of auditing. The successful auditors then formed the core of the Saint Hill crowd, and it grew from there.

Then, with the creation of the "confidential" tech (Power, Clearing Course, OT levels) LRH was able to wield power and not just influence, and things became more and more totalitarian from there.

The above is just my speculation. People who were actually there in the pre-SO days (RogerB, etc), please chime in and feel free to tell me I'm out to lunch.
 
Chuck, I really don't know what's going to happen. I was just havin' fun.

However, in that scenario, I think the foot is DM's foot. He's going to trip himself up and splat on it.

He has all the power at CoS. But he won't share it with anybody, and he's using it pitifully. Everybody else there seems to be terrified of him. From where I sit he looks like a crazy person. I think his paranoia will drive him into a self-imposed exile.

And when he leaves there's nobody left worth warm spit. Who would take over? The kids? Nope. The old folks? Nope - they left or were de-gonaded long ago.

Despite the dominant sentiment around here -- look out, everybody, here it comes, the M word! -- it's clear to me Marty doesn't want it. And even if he did I don't think any CoS public left after DM leaves would welcome him.

BTW, just think what a wonderful solution it would be for most remaining CoS public and staff if DM just disappeared. It would solve all their problems that they can't talk about now. And they'd STILL never have to talk about 'em. IMHO, I think most CoS public still left there are going to require several lifetimes just to stop being too embarrassed to look in the mirror.

You see, I think the CoS is dead already. But, like the Germanic tribes in the early scenes of "Gladiator," it just doesn't know it yet.

There, that's the third longest post I've ever made.

TG1

Congrats, Teegee! :happydance:
 
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