Will Greg Wilhere, the remaining "right hand man", stand up to David Miscavige?

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hello?

Why isn't anyone talking about the elephant in the room? Perhaps I missed it.

"Will Greg Wilhere, the remaining "right hand man", stand up to David Miscavige?"

What exactly do you mean by 'standing up' to DM? What would GW do to 'stand up' to DM? Do you mean physically? Do you mean legally? Does he have any avenue of 'standing up' to DM at all? Do you imagine some of the top int execs walking into DM's house and telling him to vacate the premises because he has been a criminal and they aren't going to take it anymore?

Are you kidding me? From what I read about the 'musical chairs' incident, he has the capability of intimidating dozens of adults to do degrading things. If those execs make one squeak about mutiny they will be kicked off the base instantly by using the security goons that report directly to DM.

A prediction: GW will leave the base eventually only he will do so involuntarily. Greg has one thing ultimately against him that he cannot fix and that is time. He's getting old. From my brief stay at Flag, I know for a fact that the SO does not treat old SO members kindly. As soon as their 'production' drops or they begin to not listen to orders or they become sick, they are summarily kicked to the curb with zero compassion. The SO has age discrimination built into its very nature. I could count on one hand people over the age of 60 at flag out of hundreds of SO staff.

He's heading for an ignominious end.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
However 'chummy' Greg Wilhere may be and how well remembered he is to some, the fact remains that Greg Wilhere is evil scum.

If you don't know why I say that, I'd point you back to a much earlier thread which was titled 'Greg Wilhere is Evil' or something like that. I may not have said scum.

The reason I said that was that right after reading Marc Headley's book, 'Blown For Good' I was especially struck when Marc had escaped and was working hard on helping Claire escape to meet him and Greg Wilhere *called* him to tell him that he'd captured Claire and was taking her back to Int Base.

It was a lie. It was a complete fabrication intended only to 'cave' Marc. The fact that Greg Wilhere did that for me eliminates *any* possible sympathy I could have for him.

He's *evil* scum

Zinj
 

Carmel

Crusader
However 'chummy' Greg Wilhere may be and how well remembered he is to some, the fact remains that Greg Wilhere is evil scum.

If you don't know why I say that, I'd point you back to a much earlier thread which was titled 'Greg Wilhere is Evil' or something like that. I may not have said scum.

The reason I said that was that right after reading Marc Headley's book, 'Blown For Good' I was especially struck when Marc had escaped and was working hard on helping Claire escape to meet him and Greg Wilhere *called* him to tell him that he'd captured Claire and was taking her back to Int Base.

It was a lie. It was a complete fabrication intended only to 'cave' Marc. The fact that Greg Wilhere did that for me eliminates *any* possible sympathy I could have for him.

He's *evil* scum

Zinj
Yep, I'd say that that's what he's become. I agree.

However, if ya knew him and if you were an ex maybe, then ya may not have the door so slammed shut and bolted up on him, to the degree which ya have.

In no way do I excuse what he's done. I think it's appalling. That doesn't though negate or rule out what he was or what he could potentially be again. I'm not keeping my fingers crossed, but nor would I write him off completely and utterly.
 

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
Why isn't anyone talking about the elephant in the room? Perhaps I missed it.

"Will Greg Wilhere, the remaining "right hand man", stand up to David Miscavige?"

What exactly do you mean by 'standing up' to DM? What would GW do to 'stand up' to DM? Do you mean physically? Do you mean legally? Does he have any avenue of 'standing up' to DM at all? Do you imagine some of the top int execs walking into DM's house and telling him to vacate the premises because he has been a criminal and they aren't going to take it anymore?

Are you kidding me? From what I read about the 'musical chairs' incident, he has the capability of intimidating dozens of adults to do degrading things. If those execs make one squeak about mutiny they will be kicked off the base instantly by using the security goons that report directly to DM.

A prediction: GW will leave the base eventually only he will do so involuntarily. Greg has one thing ultimately against him that he cannot fix and that is time. He's getting old. From my brief stay at Flag, I know for a fact that the SO does not treat old SO members kindly. As soon as their 'production' drops or they begin to not listen to orders or they become sick, they are summarily kicked to the curb with zero compassion. The SO has age discrimination built into its very nature. I could count on one hand people over the age of 60 at flag out of hundreds of SO staff.

He's heading for an ignominious end.

1) The Sea Org mentality of the top clique, those who were in the top clique, Greg and the other males who played top clique roles in the last 2 decades as subordinates and for the beginning period as trusted supporters lending their experience to the more younger but dominant Miscavige, Greg and the others I listed DO have their own mental narratives of their lives that they run in their heads. Duplicating THEIR mental narrative of how they self define their lives, IS to me, important to do, so that when outside observers DO say the right concoction of words that MATCH what those male "ex leaders, ex top players" think in THEIR heads, THAT is what I think might make SOME slight difference.

I look at what has happened. Look at where "we" (the continuing outside watchers of SCientology) have witnessed in just the last 3 years.

"We" have Marty Rathbun out and talking history, amongst the other trend of him being a continuing Hubbard spiritual exorcism therapist (body thetan removal practitioner).

However external conversations leak into the movement or into the heads of other ex "top players" to get them to speak about history, the better.

I think only when the silenced history leaks out, and BACK into the heads of those there, will it have the obvious impact.

Scientology's a closed system at the top.

Media and chat forum discussion IS part of the "communication cycle" that top Scientology leadership denies part of their lives.

Because of anyone's in the ex top ranks "reputation", all their accumulated historical impact on the hundreds/thousands of fellow Sea Org and parishioners' lives, I can tell you, when a serious media or historian of the movement is seeking insider source material, Greg Wilhere will be right up there on the top of list.

Greg doing an honest autobiography of how he mentally descended to the hated reputation he now has, THAT whole descent, were he to write about how it happened, that WOULD be a fascinating narrative framework to show the whole long mess these last 40 plus years, for him.

He's lived through even MORE than Marty. And to me, I'd gladly see him get out, and do even MORE than what Marty's done, despite his even far worse internal staff bashing that I think is Greg's past, compared to Marty.

But also, Greg has the whole Class 12 thing, he's got his Commanding Officer roles he held, he's got somewhat minor facetime with LRH compared to someone like Ken Urquhart, but Greg's at least got the time he played LRH's butler on the ship for a short period, he's got his "dancer" period, his whole life in Scientology and the Sea Org, I mentioned his boxer grandpa's life, and his Villanova quarterback life.

I'm thinking how the major characters in Scientology history, how their OWN views of themselves, their WHOLE lives, it sits in THEIR heads.

It's there, in Greg's mind.

I believe thus that Greg IS a potential person to do something to rectify the systemic abuse trend in the top ranks fo the movement, just as the lives of the other key EX top players who used to be.

What everyone seems to forget, is that this Scientology operation slithers on, year after year, and the viewpoints NOT of the ones dissaffected and leaving, but the viewpoints of those STILL IN, and who are solidly balanced mentally to continue their support no matter WHAT ex big cheezes like Marty and Mike Rinder say correctly about DM, I mean, it is all from THEIR viewpoints of THEIR balanced mindset that keep THEM in support of DM's leadership setup.

Anyways, I know were I to talk to Greg Wilhere on the phone, for 4-5 hours, I'd impact his head. 412-260-1170 I have enough good memories of him, that I'll cut him some slack historically, if he helps expose and fix the mess from the inside.

People's reputations are instantly reversed to some degree when they square off AGAINST the systemic Scientology totalitarianism.

Overwhelmingly an ex's reputation improves by their getting up to speaking publicly, and beginning to suffer the outside world's condemnations for Hubbard and Scientology's human abuses.

The outside world instantly sympathizes with ex top abusers of the Scientology authoritarian system so long as those ex top abusers own up!

Greg's would be an interesting update story, were Greg to get out.

I think he'd more tend to be a "tech" supporter (high volume body thetan/dead alien souls exorcism/removal believer) though still.

But the overwhelming trend is ex's agree the totalitarian abuse in Scientology is wrong and ought to stop somehow.

And IF, the word reaches BACK into the ex top clique's heads, they MIGHT start to think about changing things.

the internet is OUT here, and it is always the threat to their cult mental setup at the top ranks.

I also think mentioning accurate, and from THEIR viewpoint, their histories, their predicaments, will strike MORE a trail mentally, to cause some of them to "stand up" or get out!

A few ex people appreciated hearing their histories mentioned, it's an obvious ego thing, so talking up the "good" efforts of the people who are still in, who might someday sneak a look at what's written about them, who COULD be influenced, I think is important, and adds to their own self narrative of themselves.

SO the better things and more complex and detailed one can be about the histories of those ex top players, I mean we could even have a site, so they could go their, and ALL of the internet reflections from other people, which have been written over the years about all the histories of all the top ex big players who are still in, having such a site ALSO would be useful, as a simple place for the existing top ex players to QUICKLY sneak peaks at what their ex parishioners THOUGHT and THINK of them.

The internet is so full of excellent thoughts about people, but getting those people right from their viewpoints, is what influences THEM.

Writing and speculating on and on about the outside world's views, and having lofty even though correct, expectations that the ex top leaders have to come to the outside world's views, IS NOT gonna impact them.

They need views of them that are more their viewpoint, pointing them OUT.

The gap of realities keeps so much of the advanced criticism from even syncing up with their realities.

I'm for dialoguing that at least reaches them.

Some of the best comments I think were in the early 2008 period, when the smarter anonymous college kids made all sorts of striking cut through all the bullshit comments. If one is going to get to the best commenting I think of why Scientology is going nowhere.

And even more important to dousing Hubbard's fantasy religion, are the impact of the leaking widely on the internet of the OT materials, and the efforts of the church to stop the leaking, which failed.

So we HAVE the Class 8 "Assists" lecture easily listened to, by anyone. I think simplifying the lingo of what Hubbard's body thetans exorcism therapy so they public is given a simple definition of what the whole big long trail of Scientology therapy is really all about, exorcism of dead space alien souls with those souls having mental garbage that leak from those dead souls' minds into our own minds, THAT is actually square zero and ultimately the best defense preventing anyone from slipping into Scientology.

Scientology attempts to steer its members into high volume dead space alien souls exorcism (OT levels 3, 4 5 6 and 7, all "body thetan"/dead alien souls exorcism).

Greg and ALL existing and former top staff leaders have NO chance of getting around the problems Hubbard embedded in Scientology, no matter how much dodging into other Hubbard ideas they do.

Core Scientology is about dead alien souls exorcism (body thetan removal).

Hubbard's policy structure scriptures are all about relieving humankind of the influence of the Xenu tragedy, and getting sufficient people through the 4th dynamic engram and the impact on the dead alien souls of that 75 million year ago engram tragedy.

The spiritual theory fantasy beliefs are an unsurmountable problem for Scientology dissemination, and Hubbard's voice is available for people to hear him tell the Xenu story on that Class 8 tape.

The best that can be done is somehow stop the internal staff abuse and expose it, and get the recent years abuse even MORE corroborated.

Greg, could also show that these denials to the St. Pete Times were all lies, and that is another round of bashing down the siege cult mentality in top ranks Scientology.
 

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
I don't think it CAN move away from the current Stalinesque operating basis, for many of the same reasons that Stalin was forced to behave the way he did after Lenin died.

Hubbard, like Lenin, was a unique individual, with a lot of personal charm and charisma. Hubbard was able to form the organization from a point where the only power he had was his ability to persuade people to voluntarily follow him, when he had no ability to punish anybody who didn't want to do what he said.

DM, like Stalin, rose to the top of the organization through his ability to convince the Top Man to trust him with power, by his happening to be in the right place when the Top Man became increasingly incapacitated, and by his acting with complete ruthlessness when the time came to grab power. The parallels are interesting:

DM doesn't really have much charm. The only thing keeping him on top is his ability to intimidate people. Scn is doomed to become increasingly totalitarian as DM tries to retain power, until DM drives the last of the wealty public away and it all comes crashing down.

Agreed, which is why I also thought and wrote a couple years ago, that Scientology is like totalitarian countries, and the only positive fad changes happen when new "leaders" who are more benign take over.

Continuing the USSR model, Gorbechov was better than his predecessors who were in turn better than Stalin.

Hubbard didn't want to produce a USSR with a top banana, but he did.

His writings for the church structures can be interpreted to allow whoever calls themself "COB" the option, since those around DM have allowed it these past almost 30 years.

Again, this brings to mind why it is SO important to more FULLY interview the CMO people DM ousted in the 1980s. I think on Steve Hall's site, the "Gang of Five" are some of those CMO Int people DM domineered off stage.

Scientology has a personnel problem, tracing to Hubbard again, since Xenu/body thetan removal exorcism is JUST NOT a popular sellable "religion", so they have problems getting those delicately mentally (un)balanced people to do the top jobs.

And that will always be a problem for manning up Exec Strata and WDC with long term OT 7s and OT 8s who have bought the body thetans removal science fiction high volume exorcism.

I think in the end of the day, it comes back to Hubbard's not seeing that leading people to believe like him, in the overwhelming numbers of body thetans that supposedly limit our spiritual awakening, that THAT is going to be the core simple argument against Hubbard and Scientology.

In the end of the day, a religion has to stand on its version of reality.

Hubbard says body thetans leaking their mental crap into our minds is FACT, and the Xenu tragedy 4th Dynamic Engram/Wall of Fire incident is FACT.

So, Scientology dies on Hubbard's "FACTS", in the end of the day.

Public want to know what Scientologists/Hubbard believes, and the Class 8 Assists lecture is Hubbard telling Scientology in its gory core beliefs.

Getting current Scientology to evolve their Gorbechev is another of my thoughts.

Per policy though, they should do what LRH said in 339R Int, and have their Exec Strata do it's "think tank" managing of the movement, and per LRH's private orders to CMO Int, they should be having an operational Watchdog Committee putting good management structures in all the "sectors" of Scientology, and getting good management going.

Amy Scobee's book is full of VERY important historical points, I loved her book.

I hope Marty and Mike Rinder both do detailed books.

I hope the "Gang of Five" get interviewed someday, and the top CMO people upstaged and ousted by DM go public someday more fully.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Hubbard even wrote that there were two loyal officers (Annie and Pat) and should be more.

Hey Chuck,

That FO (The Sea Org and the Future) was fake. John Brousseau alerted DM to that fact, and that was the end of Pat and Annie.

I read about this in a few places over the past few months. It should be easy enough to Google.

Paul
 

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
Hey Chuck,

That FO (The Sea Org and the Future) was fake. John Brousseau alerted DM to that fact, and that was the end of Pat and Annie.

I read about this in a few places over the past few months. It should be easy enough to Google.

Paul

My thoughts were there WAS sufficient amounts of late years private comments from LRH to Annie or Pat, to warrant Pat's origination of that though.

LRH throughout the Apollo years was always bringing up the sci fi history of his to people, especially on the Apollo bridge at night.

He likely did NOT cease his sci fi bloated bragging past lives past, because for instance the INCOMM policy letter in the OEC is based on LRH traffic to Foster Tompkins, then the MCM (Mission Computerize Management) In Charge, which included, again, his warnings about the drone space craft that supposedly hover in earth's orbit.

I speculate, and that's why I wish someday to speak and ask Annie and Pat, if LRH DID speculate and ever even casually mention "Loyal Officers" outside of the context of the film script LRH wished or wrote that half way gives the Xenu story (minus body thetans implanting spiritual problems that OT 3 spiritual therapy and OT 4, 5, 6 and 7, supposedly handle on a person's "case" today in official Scientology).

I think there is unfortunately something to this Loyal Officer's stuff, and likely, if it is MORE like you are saying, that Pat dreamed it up, but also, why the hell would Pat wish to be top dog, since Pat was so messed up.

Naw, I think a fuller more complex piecing together of LRH's actual writings and comments, recorded on those little cassette recorders he always had around him, and which were the cassettes which I believe the "Comm Center" people (Ted Karbowski and Susy/Suzy Bennect (Jason's wife), those two were the transcribers of the cassettes into the paper despatch orders/advices), we need to someday see ALL those raw cassettes that LRH recorded his rambling thoughts and pointed orders into, for relay to the movement.

There needs to be a lot more writing, book chapters, detailing this, so the full context is laid out.

I'd love to have the money to go interview Pat, if Pat would be interviewed.

Marty said Pat was in an eastern EU country, I think maybe Marty meant Pat is in "Bulgaria", as a joke, maybe not.

As crazy and unleaderlike as Pat was, his stories would be important to an historian, so I hope despite everyone's agenda, namely the independents who are loathe to have Pat surface and muddy up LRH's history, I think from an outside impartial view, Pat SHOULD be found and interviewed for raw history.

a) What all does Pat recall LRH DID or DID NOT say in his private moments in Pat or Annie's presence, regarding the actual phrase "Loyal Officers." IF LRH at no time in the pairs' years with LRH did LRH utter "Loyal Officers", then YES, I'd agree with you.

b) From the ASI traffic, from LRH's traffic to Foster re INCOMM's job of space operaesque "computerizing" management so the computers could do like the famous "CHUG" story and the computer spots the downstats, the computer does the investigation, the computer finds the "who" is the bad guy, the computer finds a replacement, the computer orders the "handling" (replacement of the bad guy), THAT IS what the CHUG story to Foster says the millions of years ago computer system on some far flung space civilization DID DO in the "old" days of space. And LRH in the alte 1970s, in that film script for the Xenu story, has the Loyal Officers. And Hana Eltringham was even asked, see that TV interview of Hana, she said LRH supposedly asked her "Were YOU one of the Loyal Officers."

SO, it could be Hubbard lingo "dropped out time" on Pat's part also, meaning Pat is also one of those Apollo "vet" persons that LRH ALSO did one of those Apollo bridge late night rambling bragging past lives crap stories to, and maybe TOLD Pat, or others, that they were "Loyal Officers."

Because again, there's that OT discussion that some of the OTs who were Loyal Officers have somewhat different "OT 3" cases, and were spared the 36 and 1/2 day implant, etc, etc.

So, it could be if Pat ALSO made up the "Loyal Officers" Flag Order based on Pat's Apollo vintage conversations with LRH also.

Anyways, love your conversations Paul!

Pat Broeker, please come on down!

Let us interview you, let some of us who want to piece together the Hubbard Scientology science fiction fantasy religion history about it all, for the history books, PLEASE LET US INTERVIEW YOU PAT!
 

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
Paul,

Further to my last, remember the Pat Broeker holding up the LRH worksheet with all the digits on it, showing just supposedly FAR LRH was "researching" (looking at his supposed PAST LIFE incidents), to us faithful at one of those few Broeker events in the late 1980s!!!!

That again, believe me, is likely the time period that old Ron might have blurted some "Loyal Officers" crap anew, to Pat or Annie, IF there is any recent truth to Pat's content of that disgraced and cancelled Flag Order that Pat authored.

Or else, like I speculate, Pat is borrowing on the "Loyal Officer" vintage comments of LRH of the same period that Hana experienced the "Loyal Officer" questioning from LRH to her, on the Apollo, and that Pat or others that Pat knew had been asked those same type questions, and given the pat on the head from Hubbard that indeed "You MUST have been one of those Loyal Officers."

Again, we need Pat to cough up the truth.
 

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
Paul,

Sorry, to go on and on on this, but further further, I had another thought.

Pat, being one of the "top" people after LRH died, and let's say he watched Hana on that TV show in the late 1980s, when she was on that show, with the anti LRH books came out, it is ALSO likely that the Flag Order by Pat was Pat's "handling" to upstage Hana, who obviously, her and the others on that show, upstaged Scientology's leadership with Hana's and Scott Mayers (sp?) revelations about their even more important facetime moments with LRH, particularly Hana being given an implied/evaluated question by LRH "Were YOU one of the Loyal Officers?!?!!"

It could also be that Pat, if the time tract in the late 1980s all lines up correctly, could be Pat is making that Flag Order up to upstage the then independent Scientology movement people who for sure had amongst THEM far far far more facetime with LRH, and as we all know, facetime with LRH was a heavy thing in the psyche/ego of some of those people. (Witness Norman Starkey today, he's living proof of LRH facetime service fac oneupmanship and "speaking for LRH" attitude).

So "speaking for LRH" or "speaking from LRH's viewpoint" is a heady psychological thing for whichever oneupmanship leader or top dog Hubbardite is claiming to be the ultimate arbiter of all things Hubbard, when the old man was dead.

Pat's doing the Loyal Officers, using Loyal Officers, also likely was just in that mindset. Upstaging Hana's use of the word Loyal Officers, and weaving it into the top pecking order in order to protect Pat's elite top position.

Again, we need all of LRH's pc folders, all his writings, all those little cassette tapes he recorded into, ALL that is square zero, and ALL of these top dogs around Hubbard in detail interviewed, to do the whole truth.

As much as people can lure these ex's to speak up the better.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Chuck, I really don't know what's going to happen. I was just havin' fun.

However, in that scenario, I think the foot is DM's foot. He's going to trip himself up and splat on it.

He has all the power at CoS. But he won't share it with anybody, and he's using it pitifully. Everybody else there seems to be terrified of him. From where I sit he looks like a crazy person. I think his paranoia will drive him into a self-imposed exile.

And when he leaves there's nobody left worth warm spit. Who would take over? The kids? Nope. The old folks? Nope - they left or were de-gonaded long ago.

Despite the dominant sentiment around here -- look out, everybody, here it comes, the M word! -- it's clear to me Marty doesn't want it. And even if he did I don't think any CoS public left after DM leaves would welcome him.

BTW, just think what a wonderful solution it would be for most remaining CoS public and staff if DM just disappeared. It would solve all their problems that they can't talk about now. And they'd STILL never have to talk about 'em. IMHO, I think most CoS public still left there are going to require several lifetimes just to stop being too embarrassed to look in the mirror.

You see, I think the CoS is dead already. But, like the Germanic tribes in the early scenes of "Gladiator," it just doesn't know it yet.

There, that's the third longest post I've ever made.

TG1

I also can't see who could replace Miscavige. He'll hang on to the last minute, and go down with the ship.

But

There is job coming up that DM is very qualified for. North Korea is looking for a new leader.

kim-jong-il-kim-jong-ok.jpg
 
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chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
Chuck, Why, why, why oh why would you want these other clowns and abusers to take over Scn. They'd just give those still in another "it's all fixed now" and prolong the agony another few years while all the same crap would go on under another "leader", the second most ruthless person in Scn.

The mindset is so fixed that you will never get the change that would be needed to make anything decent out of Scn. Even though there were some decent parts to Scn. Just won't happen. It's doomed, and the sooner it ends the less people will be hurt by it.

Wendall Reynolds????? Wasn't he Finance dictator? Destroyed the mission network to get all their money? You want him for a leader? :no:

excellent point. I guess only because I noticed organized Scientology slumbering along, and having so much admin brainwashing in my brain, I regurgitate these suggestions.

Your point cuts to the chase.

There's no need to spend time thinking of a gradient solutions, other than that seems to just be human history.

Scientology is an unreasonable practice and menace, and gradient solutions, while they might make sense to some, really, I have to agree with the harshest critics.

Scientology is a massive waste of everyone's attention.

Sorry about this thread, thanks for the comments.

I agree, your point I concede to.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
excellent point. I guess only because I noticed organized Scientology slumbering along, and having so much admin brainwashing in my brain, I regurgitate these suggestions.

Your point cuts to the chase.

There's no need to spend time thinking of a gradient solutions, other than that seems to just be human history.

Scientology is an unreasonable practice and menace, and gradient solutions, while they might make sense to some, really, I have to agree with the harshest critics.

Scientology is a massive waste of everyone's attention.

Sorry about this thread, thanks for the comments.

I agree, your point I concede to.

Hubbard took from this but in 1966 in morroco he fixed it on bodythetans and dreamed up a funny story arounfd them. Alsoo there was talk of multiple personality disorder needing an explaination ?

People should ask these questions:
What is the meaning of my illness?
What is the illness trying to communicate?
What can be changed?
What is the secondary gain from my illness?

One of the techniques that can be used when working with psychosomatic illness is to ask the person to imagine his/her problem. See if he/she can give that problem color, shape or movement. If the problem would look like something, what would it look like? Place it in a chair in front of you and ask the illness the following questions: What is it that you want to communicate to me? What is the point of my problem?

Listen to yourself without any judgment and notice the first thing that comes to your mind. What is it trying to communicate to you? Do not censor your answers.

When I asked one of my clients to place the problem in a chair, after a few minutes she had her eyes wide open. She saw her family member. She quickly confessed that her family member is a source of stress in her life, and that her health problem was a way to deal with this stress.

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/what-is-psychosomatic-illness
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Aha

Hubbard took from this but in 1966 in morroco he fixed it on bodythetans and dreamed up a funny story arounfd them. Alsoo there was talk of multiple personality disorder needing an explaination ?



http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/what-is-psychosomatic-illness

"People should ask these questions:
What is the meaning of my illness?
What is the illness trying to communicate?
What can be changed?
What is the secondary gain from my illness?

One of the techniques that can be used when working with psychosomatic illness is to ask the person to imagine his/her problem. See if he/she can give that problem color, shape or movement. "

Well I find this very interresting.....

Thank you for posting.

Best
Markus
 
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Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
excellent point. I guess only because I noticed organized Scientology slumbering along, and having so much admin brainwashing in my brain, I regurgitate these suggestions.

Your point cuts to the chase.

There's no need to spend time thinking of a gradient solutions, other than that seems to just be human history.

Scientology is an unreasonable practice and menace, and gradient solutions, while they might make sense to some, really, I have to agree with the harshest critics.

Scientology is a massive waste of everyone's attention.

Sorry about this thread, thanks for the comments.

I agree, your point I concede to.

No need to be sorry for the thread, Chuck. It's something every Scientologist would consider on his way out, and therefore needs to be thoroughly aired.

I had a real good look at what could be done to get Scn back on track before I came to the conclusion that it will never be gotton back on track. Nor would there be any value in getting it back on track. It's too big of a mess to be worth the time and effort. There are better things to spend time and effort on.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
Exactly! :thumbsup:

And don't forget he was a good dancer.

Scientology makes the able more malleable.

Greg is the best example.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Yep - a Scientologist is always certain that he is aware and self-directed, most especially when he is deceiving of himself. His mind is in all ways always too tough to have been subtly influenced, dammit. Reality is that which is agreed upon, and slowly his agreements are shifted, by group agreement, exactly what LRH warned about...

Oh, wait...
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
Good point, why try to prolong the mess.

Again, official or non official Scientology/Hubbard therapy is dead space alien souls exorcism, and that's not going anywhere no matter who tries to sell it.

body thetan removal hasn't had any impact on planet earth.

It's probably best to just simplify and detail what the therapy practice is all about. Inventing an imaginative past lives lineage for oneself, and then agreeing to see little alien souls all over oneself that one telepathically gives Hubbard therapy to to make those souls get off one's body.

It's a very unlikely practice. Science fiction exorcism.

I like the image of Jason Beghe and David Duchovny bursting into tears of laughter as Jason tries to describe OT III...

It is a very unlikely practice. I think limited usefulness.
 
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