With respect, Karen de la Carriere's son has died

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Karen? Sweetheart, I'm not going to wade in on this thread with any commentary.

I am however pouring love and light out for you. You are so very loved.

:rose:



Fuck you OSA! Really FUCK YOU!
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
I wish people wouldn't do this. David Estephan's hands are legally tied and cannot comply with Karen's requests, as hurtful as this is. To do so could get him sued, and he could his license to own & operate a funeral home.

I suggested to Karen days ago that she consult with an attorney to see if she had any legal standing to challenge prevailing codes, but I'm out of the loop and unaware whether she did so or not.

California Health and Safety Code, Section 7100, identifies who has the right to make decisions about disposition arrangements after an individual's death. Family Code Sections 297 and 297.5 were added January 1, 2005 to include registered domestic partners to the following list of individuals.

The responsibility for making decisions devolves in the following order: agent under a power of attorney for health care, spouse or registered domestic partner, adult children, parents, adult siblings and other competent adult kin.

NOTE: Exceptions may apply in certain situations. You may wish to consult with an attorney.

http://www.cfb.ca.gov/aboutus/faqs.shtml

As hurtful and incredibly cruel this is to a grieving mother, Mr. Estephan is only following the law.

A friend that has used Cedar Hills Mortuary in the past, informed me that David Estephan comes from a well-respected Lebanese family, that has owned & operated funeral homes in Pasadena & Downey for decades.

No Smurf NO.
I am not asking to change disposition arrangements.,
I am asking for one last private last look and or/whether it's too late and the is already cremated.
+++++++++++++++++
And your "very respected Funeral Director" had some trouble in Sacramento, threatening someone with a weapon, not a firearm, although he was not convicted.


I have the dox.
 

JustMe

Patron Meritorious
..................Per the doctrine of Disconnection, Alexander was very carefully watched and manipulated by OSA for the last two years to stay away from his mother. And now, even after Alexander has passed, we can see that the Church of Scientology is still practicing Disconnection.

Thank you Swifty.

I consider Karen a very dear and loving personal friend. I just got off the phone with her about 30 minutes ago and have composed myself enough to write this post.

Karen is completely devastated by the loss of her son who she loved dearly. And on top of this there is the total cruelty of her not being allowed to even see her son's body by a vindictive and hateful cult. My God who does this to a MOTHER!

Karen cried and cried as she told of the years and years she devoted herself to organized scientology, the years of $10 a week, rice and beans, horrible treatment ALL that she did for them and this is what she gets back for it.

And I knew and loved Karen back when we were in Special Unit together in the very early 80s. Just like she is now, she was a caring and loving person going out of her way to help people constantly.

When I was able to get out coherent words in our chat this afternoon, I told Karen that I truly felt that this is something that all people of good hearts will unite around. It does not matter if you're an Indee, and EX or anyone else, I believe all disagreements can be put aside for the moment as many of us try to help in any way we can.

I asked Karen what she would like me to tell people on boards like this, Anonymous and/or EXes, and the first thing she said when she could stop crying was how much she appreciated the outpouring of love and support from everyone on these boards and elsewhere.

The people who are with her now to help her get through these days, those who have called and those who have posted their love are deeply, deeply appreciated.

Karen is getting calls from Indees, EXes who do not believe in Hubbard/scientology, Anons and even public currently in scientology secretly calling to express their support and say how much they hate what the "church" is doing here.

Karen asked me to ask everyone to please call and ask/demand that she be allowed to see her son again. Maybe nothing will come from it but ask anyway.

For God's sake how can ANYONE be this cruel!!!

The place to call is the Cedar Hill Mortuary at 1722 Colorado Blvd in LA. The number there is 323-274-2818. If you live in LA going there would be wonderful.

So far all I can get is an answering machine but I left my message there and will try again. It can't hurt to call if it is in your heart to help here.

There will be more media on this but I pray we not let story die until something is done to help.

So there it is from Karen to us all.

brb sad
 
Last edited:

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
No Smurf NO. I am not asking to change disposition arrangements. I am asking for one last private last look and or/whether it's too late and the is already cremated.
+++++++++++++++++
And your "very respected Funeral Director" had some trouble in Sacramento, threatening someone with a weapon, not a firearm, although he was not convicted.


I have the dox.

Karen, with all due respect, and I am grievous and very angry that you cannot visit & be with Alexander, there are laws that mortuary owners are required to follow. As I posted before, the California codes stipulate there are "exceptions" and an attorney needs to be consulted.

I was told that Mr. Estephan and his father, Assif, were well-respected funeral home owners. I do not know them, personally.

I posted a link to the legal codes. Whether they speak to your visiting with your son before he his cremated, I don't know. That's why it is vitally important you speak with an attorney.

Unfortunately, as many of us has experienced over the decades, being on the adverse side of Scientology and all it's nastiness, the courts and the laws have actually been used to benefit & excuse the cult for all it's criminality.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Karen,

Since you are reading this thread . . . and you guys who have her phone number, tell her to go to my email and/or PM via ESMB.

Roger
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
I wish people wouldn't do this. David Estephan's hands are legally tied and cannot comply with Karen's requests, as hurtful as this is. …

His hands might well be legally tied, but what would a decent human being do in this situation?

A quiet phone call followed by opening up the funeral parlour out of hours to a grieving mother?

Who could possibly fault someone for doing that?

Axiom142
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
His hands might well be legally tied, but what would a decent human being do in this situation?

A quiet phone call followed by opening up the funeral parlour out of hours to a grieving mother? Who could possibly fault someone for doing that?

The California Cemetery & Funeral Bureau could pull the man's license and deprive him of his livelihood? The cult could sue him for violating the wishes of the deceased's spouse?

You know as well as I do, the courts and the law don't always work in favor of the actual victims of injustices.

If I were in Mr. Estephan's shoes, I'd make a deal with Karen to allow her to see her son, on the condition that she not tell anyone. But, I'd be risking liability in doing so.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Well.. I'm flabberghasted about US laws that brings about this bizarre situation where Alexander's MOTHER need to ask The Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology to see his body.. No such 'law' around here anyway [Denmark].

:unsure:
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
I don't know what the Australian laws are, but if they support anything like this I think they should be reviewed. It's completely bizarrre. What is certain is that places like America and Australia provide absolutely no protection against cults for victims - including the extended family - unlike France and Germany. I know in France you can report the behaviour and have it investigated. There is nothing like that here. But as Senator Xenophon said, there should be freaking limits on how people can BEHAVE. This situation is so seriously wtf! And the fact that they were SEPARATED should damn well count for something also - loving wife my fat arse! His mother is the only one that truly loved that boy. Even Heber chose the church. The only person who loved him kept from him at the loneliest of times. That is beyond sad.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
Anons are famous for saying "NYPA" but I think in this case it's very certain Karen and Alexander have their own private army - here and among all people who are disgusted with this outrage.

Karen only needs to say the word. I don't care if this funeral home director has to put up with phone calls - boofuckinhoo - it is nothing in comparassion to what Karen is dealing with. Maybe enough pressure he will realize confidentially or "accidentally" releasing the requested info is the right thing to do. (Also how suspicious is it they are trying to quickly cremate the body now?)

I think Alex was in a lot of pain, dealing with huge levels of mental anguish as he was probably starting to wake up to the evils of the CoS and had a lot on his plate in his personal life.

Since there is nothing I wouldn't put past this cult I can only think if Alex was on the verge of leaving, well the best way to sum it up is - the cult would rather have Alex dead and silent than alive and by Karens side. The sick bastards. I have no problem believing they would push Alex towards self-destruction, give him a helping hand or worse.

After doing our best to ensure Karen might be able to say goodbye properly and give her son a memorial - the focus needs to be 100% on making sure the cult isn't able to cover-up yet another death and we scream from the rooftops to ensure a proper investigations done into this matter and the role played by the CoS and those doing their bidding.

There will be justice for Alexander. Karen please stay strong and lean on the large community of people who love you and be vocal about any help you need to the thousands that support you.
 
Last edited:

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
The California Cemetery & Funeral Bureau could pull the man's license and deprive him of his livelihood? The cult could sue him for violating the wishes of the deceased's spouse?

You know as well as I do, the courts and the law don't always work in favor of the actual victims of injustices.

If I were in Mr. Estephan's shoes, I'd make a deal with Karen to allow her to see her son, on the condition that she not tell anyone. But, I'd be risking liability in doing so.

You are a very caring person, and it's very obvious that you are trying to help.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Anons are famous for saying "NYPA" but I think in this case it's very certain Karen and Alexander have their own private army - here and among all people who are disgusted with this outrage.

There will be justice for Alexander. Karen please stay strong and lean on the large community of people who love you and be vocal about any help you need to the thousands that support you.

What we all need to do is DEMAND a fucking criminal investigation from the State, not simply request one. Personally, I would have sought a court order to stop the cremation from taking place until an independent autopsy could be done by a respected board-certified forensic pathologist like Dr. Michael Baden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Baden

Dr. Baden has done many 2nd autopsies where deaths were initially ruled by the coroner to be natural deaths or suicides, and Baden ruled them to be homicides.

Unfortunately, one cannot expect a 100% effort from a county coroner who has to perform so many autopsies in a day/week, they're quick to make judgements.

The cult had ALOT to lose with Alexander blowing the cult.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
"Default Re: With respect, Karen de la Carriere's son has died

Thank you, I am humbled with your caring comments.
I worked HARD for them.
I worked 60-80 hour weeks, I ate the beans and rice,
I earned $10 a week, I suffered 20 years in Sea Org and continued to contribute
long after.
I wanted to BELIEVE in the "CHURCH".
So when when they would not permit me one last look before cremation ~~ I wanted only 15 seconds to kiss his forehead ~~

I got the impact of their revenge no matter what I had done or achieved fro them in the past.

Even in war an Enemy nation will hand over the dead body to the opposing country.

But not the Church of Scientology.
You will not have the body, you will not give a last goodbye.

What can you do ?
They trumped me this time.
Tomorrow is another day..... "

Well Scarlet O'Carriere, their trumping was a big footbullet. OK
got to be knee bullets now. Love your passion and hard hitting comments. :)

Sent them to the UK Times, then original " Times" and some details were posted. Was it me or some somewhat savvy journalists. Dunno.

Whatever belts and braces.

However, yes! Tomorrow is another day!

You will be a main player in making it a different day

love
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Hi Denise,
TomKat is the beginning of something not good for CO$.

I think Karen will be the rock on which DM will be broken.
 

Graham Berry

Patron with Honors
With Respect to Karen de la Carriere

Daily Mail On Line reports on Karen de la Carriere's tragic loss.

The Daily Mail Online is the most widely read media site on the Net. It has posted an article on the tragic death of Karen de la Carriere's son 27 year old Alexander Jentzsch. Her pain is compounded by the heartless and inhuman treatment she is now enduring at the hands of the Church.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...dy-morgue.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Re: With Respect to Karen de la Carriere

Daily Mail On Line reports on Karen de la Carriere's tragic loss.

The Daily Mail Online is the most widely read media site on the Net. It has posted an article on the tragic death of Karen de la Carriere's son 27 year old Alexander Jentzsch. Her pain is compounded by the heartless and inhuman treatment she is now enduring at the hands of the Church.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...dy-morgue.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html

Those links are not working for me.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Somewhere on this thread I thought that someone posted a picture of the in-laws, Andrea's parents. I have scanned over and over and can't find it. Does someone have their name and address?
 

jenni with an eye

Silver Meritorious Patron
This situation is so seriously wtf! And the fact that they were SEPARATED should damn well count for something also - loving wife my fat arse!

His mother is the only one that truly loved that boy. Even Heber chose the church. The only person who loved him kept from him at the loneliest of times. That is beyond sad.

Main points I've highlighted in red. :iagree:

:thankyou: Purple Rain we are thinking alike. :)

I'm:furious: about all of this.

To Karen :heartflower::grouphug:
 
Top