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Work philosophy post-scn - Need insight

Dennis

Patron
Need some help/insight on something that has me a bit stumped.

I have posted a few times on here before, but for those that don't know me, I am a born and raised ex-scn kid. I have been working through a number of emotional/philosophical/life concerns over the last ten years post scientology. Most I have been able to ponder through and trace back to certain Scientology thought positions, but one thing that I can't seem to understand is my philosophical position on work. Specifically, being PAID for work.

I have been thinking about this for a while, so please bear with me...

From what I can establish, work or job satisfaction is low with a lot of scientology kids. A lot of us seem to eke out our living in pedestrian jobs such as in clothes stores and food outlets. I know one Scientology kid that has gone through over 30 different jobs and has still not found any satisfaction. As for me, I try to avoid work at all costs. From my understanding this comes down to three main issues. One is Scientology's lack of focus on education, which results in no HSC/Year 12/High School/ or University/College for Scientology raised kids; Two is a lack of focus on the individual talents of Scientology kids which would ordinarily lead to passionate development of hobbies and career paths; and three is the cult mindless brainwashing thing that hinders knowledge of self (thankfully this last one has a rebound effect of knowing oneself deeply, though with a lot of distress in between).

But knowing oneself is separate from knowing what to do with oneself. I have tried my share of jobs, hobbies, etc over the years trying to find an area that interests me, or even something I can bear doing for an extended period of time, but I keep falling short. Now, I am a very capable individual and have always been a valuable employee when it comes to work; very efficient, quick to learn and pick up skills, good at team work, yada yada yada insert all the necessary skills... So the actual work/job is not the problem. I have no problem doing work voluntarily, like when someone asks me to help them. I even offer my help freely and work hard to do a good job. But the minute that work becomes PAID work, then all tools get downed, and I lack the motivation and effort. I start to see the ridiculousness of selling things to people that don't need it. Or selling cheap shit at over-inflated prices. Or shuffling paper for the sake of shuffling paper. I do not last long emotional or philosophically after this and I quickly plan my exit.

The closest explanation I can get to the way I am feeling is from Fromm and his Marketing Personality. Or rather my inability to do what is needed in this day and age and place a value on my skills and abilities and sell them like I am a product. I could also rabbit on about the utter meaninglessness of the majority of jobs, the chasing of bits or paper that we all place too much meaning on. Or I could say I am just being moralistic and challenging the current capitalist and materialistic paradigm. Or maybe the realising of true freedom? I don't know... But I feel there is more to it.

I initially thought this was an individual thing, but I recently started a course (that will hopefully lead to self-employment), and by sheer coincidence, or divine fate (however you wish to see it), I ended up in the exact same course with another scientology kid with a strikingly similar upbringing (around the same age, same org, same time period). We don't actually remember each other, but we got chatting and the subject of work came up and without him knowing my position, he basically described EXACTLY how I think about work and PAID work in particular. I did not prompt him or anything and there was nothing vague about the similarity. It was pretty much word for word.

So, my question is: How does two separate scientology kids that have never spoken to each other end up with the EXACT same philosophical position on work and PAID work in particular? Surely, this is not sheer coincidence? There must be some sort of Scientology manipulation/dogma at work that has led us down the exact same thought process and exact same path..?
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Dennis, you write well and with great clarity and introspective insight - both qualities I find to be rare in the younger generations (I am in my 70s, BTW).

When I have more time, I'll give this some thought and perhaps explore and expand on your excellent post. Thank your for it.

At first blush, let me say that how you describe your condition is rather similar to the condition I find myself in now after a full "threescore and and ten" plus of life experience.

Perhaps the velocity and intensity of what you experienced in the world of scientology just simply wore you down to the point where you pretty much feel like you've had enough and have "been there. done that". Dunno - just a thought.

It is difficult for me too as finding satisfaction in the word as it exists today is elusive at best. I do find that working with my hands does help - I especially like and enjoy boats and radio control model aircraft. Yard work and gardening also feel good and make for a better night's sleep.

My scio involvement was all as a mature adult, mostly as public with a couple of abortive attempts on staff, just FYI.

Best regards,

EP
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
The following is my personal opinion. You can accept or reject it as you please.

To be in Scientology is to experience out-exchange on a 24/7 basis.

Scn demands that you hand over your time, your wealth, your honor, your life. It demands everything from you, but if you make any noises about deserving any exchange back, then you're a bad person.

You pay for service, and the staff thinks they're doing you a huge favor by actually delivering what you paid for. You give them years of your life on staff, and you get a "freeloader's debt" when you leave.

I think that, to have grown up in that environment, one would internalize the viewpoint that expecting exchange in return for work makes you a bad person, until it turns into a fundamental, unexamined, part of your personality that would be difficult to change.

For me, my philosophy is that free people receive a freely agreed upon exchange for their work. Slaves don't. A born-in Scn may exist with his physical body being technically free, but his mind isn't free yet. He hasn't yet internalized that achieving his own goals, and getting personal enjoyment, is a good thing.

I have goals and desires. I work in order to be paid, so I have money to support my family and be able to enjoy my life outside of work.

I'm maximally satisfied when I am doing things which require my best thinking and creativity, when I'm convinced that I'm delivering the best that I can do. For me, that is the source of satisfaction. But I would still work at unsatisfying things, as long as what I'm doing gets me paid.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Dennis,,

That's a very lucid write-up of the situation you are experiencing.

From my perspective I would say the following, and see if it fits for you.

Basically, the Scientology experience does fill an individual with a number of false premises . . . by this I mean: false data and false belief systems. And these become one's operating basis for life and living. One could also use the terms "operating paradigm."

The other thing to say is: Scientology superimposes on its people, particularly those brought up as children in the system (I'm being polite and not calling it a cult :biggrin:), its (the Scn) set of values or beliefs about what people should be, do and have. In other words, it substitutes what is right for you to have as your own deep down dreams and aspirations for life with the Scn set of "values" and "what is right."

Scn also effectively denies in the youngsters who grow up in it the education and knowledge needed for them to operate optimumly in the society at large.

So, perhaps the first thing for you to do is to take a deep look and ascertain what is it that you deep down, really, really want to do or accomplish with your life that you would do if you had all of the times and assets needed to be able to do it.

Then, of course, you would need to look at what knowledge and other resources you need to acquire in order to pursue and fulfill your own Dreams and Aspirations.

The other thing I recommend you do is inspect what thoughts, belief systems, operating basis, etc., you have about "work" and earning a living and also about life in general. This in order to ascertain what thought process or operating basis you are operating on that is sabotaging you and your games.

Alan Walter developed a "Thoughts are Things Drill/Exercise" that is used to address and dismantle such operating nonsense. I recommend you use it (it can be done solo) to clear out of the way the false and misdirecting nonsense that was superimposed on you while a child in the cult.

Here below is the R/D . . . .
______________________________

Omni-Sovereign Procedures Series 4A

THOUGHTS ARE THINGS EXERCISE

The purpose of this exercise is to enable one to begin to see that thoughts are actual things, the effect they have, and that they can be changed.

1. Locate a thought you have had about yourself. If needed say: Tell me about it.
2. Connected to (thought), where is it?
3. Connected to (thought), what is its size?
4. Connected to (thought), what is its form or shape?
5, Connected to (thought), what is its color?
6. Connected to (thought), what is its weight?

7. Connected to (thought), what is its duration?
8. Connected to (thought), what are its mood levels?

9. Connected to (thought), what are its limitations?
10. Connected to (thought), what are its intentions?
11. Connected to (thought), what must not be experienced?
12. Connected to (thought), what are its consequences?
Repeat until there
are no more consequences.
13. Connected to (thought), what would be a more optimum thought?
14. What could be the consequences of that more optimum thought?
Repeat until no more possible consequences.
If needed, repeat 13
and 14 until satisfied with the optimum thought.

26 January 2005 from the works of
ALAN C. WALTER
Copyright © 2005
Alan C. Walter
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Hi Dennis,

I have run into the exact same thing since I have been out and I know what you mean. I have not gotten a grip on it, but I may have a couple of points for you that may help a little.

I too was born in Scn and raised (32 years in) and it was quite tough to get out and learn ways of the world. My 32 years were in the Sea Org, which meant, really, hardly any contact with the outside world at all. I did not know what the internet was, how to use it, a cell phone, I could not drive, I did not know how to apply for a job, nothing. And yet when I left I was OT V and Flag trained Class VI C/S! Crazy!

I started out with basic jobs, and moved on to salary jobs, and it has been quite hard to enjoy, or really feel satisified.

But one thing I was very lucky is early on I ended up in a job that taught me a lot of great basics that I still use.

I learned from that job that, no matter what, in whatever job you are doing, whenever something happens, take it as a learning experience. Whether something good or bad happens, see what you can learn from it. Watch the people around you, and how they react to things, and what your reaction is to that thing. It may seem silly but I bet you will find some things about your current environment that you were not expecting. I found it to be quite eye opening, especially because I was not being forced to look through the filter of "LRH" or "LRH Tech". I could see things differently.

The second point (not in order of importance or anything, just each random notes): Working for money is something that you are not used to, having been in Scn. I recently had a boss who had promised a raise and did not give it, and in fact, ended up quite nasty about it. When I tried to talk with him about it, I was trying to explain to him that it was not about the money, it was about the fact that he said he was going to do something and he did not do it, and for me, this means I am working with someone who does not keep their word. He said to me, "of course it is about the money, it's ALWAYS about the money". He could not and would not even try to understand that it WAS NOT my point. I could not get it across. When I quit, he offered me more money to stay. Did I not already tell him it was not about the money? (I am telling you this little story because even 11 years out I still think like this, what you are saying, even though I have a family with two babies to care for, it is STILL not about the money). The fact that he offered me money turns me away even more.

It is hard for some people to understand that you want to feel that you are working for a higher purpose. You may be looking for work to be a sort of satisfaction. On this end, I have discovered that very few people find satisfaction in their work. Instead, they do their work, and use the money that they make to do something that does give them satisfaction, like a hobby.

I hope this helps a little bit. It is a long time trying to undo years and years of upbringing.
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Good post and thanks for bringing this up. Scientology makes work dreadful and does not compensate anyone for anything. Years of this abuse leaves one feeling like they are nothing. To the extent that Scientology drilled this in - one must drill it out.

Do meditation and hypnosis tapes found for free on the internet (YOU TUBE) and displace those thoughts with whatever you desire - self worth, self esteem, being loved, loving others, life is to be lived and it is okay to have abundance etc...

Hubbard lied about hypnosis - you don't have to be in pain or unconscious to be hypnotized. You have to be relaxed and agree with whatever you are going to put into your mind. Garbage (Scientology) in - Garbage OUT - this state you describe (the actual product of Scientology). So pick whatever you are desiring and find some videos to do daily. You Tube has tons of them. They are very effective but you have to work on it daily.

Study up on hypnosis - you are being hypnotized every day whether you like it or not. Read Napolean Hill and listen to his tapes....you have to make a conscious effort to get rid of the Scientology implants. Hubbard did not want you to look at or do hypnosis because his books, lectures, study tech - all of it - was a form of "self hypnosis" where you will replace normal thoughts and ideas with Hubbard's thoughts and ideas.

PUT into your mind those thoughts of worth and being valuable each day until your subconscious mind displaces those deeply ingrained thoughts of "you are nothing and anything you do is meaningless" until they become part of you.

I hope that helps you. By the mere fact you are bringing this up and looking at it - you will find some answers to help resolve this issue common to staff and public.

Scientology specializes in creating people who do not think they are valuable and nothing you do except Scientology is worth while. They use covert invalidation and nullification. You have to undo this. It is possible to undo all of it.
 

Dennis

Patron
Dennis, you write well and with great clarity and introspective insight - both qualities I find to be rare in the younger generations (I am in my 70s, BTW).

When I have more time, I'll give this some thought and perhaps explore and expand on your excellent post. Thank your for it.

At first blush, let me say that how you describe your condition is rather similar to the condition I find myself in now after a full "threescore and and ten" plus of life experience.

Perhaps the velocity and intensity of what you experienced in the world of scientology just simply wore you down to the point where you pretty much feel like you've had enough and have "been there. done that". Dunno - just a thought.

It is difficult for me too as finding satisfaction in the word as it exists today is elusive at best. I do find that working with my hands does help - I especially like and enjoy boats and radio control model aircraft. Yard work and gardening also feel good and make for a better night's sleep.

My scio involvement was all as a mature adult, mostly as public with a couple of abortive attempts on staff, just FYI.

Best regards,

EP

Thanks EP.

Yes, I have previously compared myself to someone like yourself with a lot more life experience and noticed similarities in thought. After a bit of brooding, I had to accept the reality that I am only in my early 30's and have probably a good 50 years of life still ahead of me. So, I need to work out some blocks to a satisfying and financially sustainable life.

And I totally agree about working with hands. I came to the same conclusion a while back and the course I started earlier this year involves using my hands! But I worry that when I start using my skills, my current mindset will continue and I will not be comfortable trading my abilities for money.
 

Dennis

Patron
The second point (not in order of importance or anything, just each random notes): Working for money is something that you are not used to, having been in Scn. I recently had a boss who had promised a raise and did not give it, and in fact, ended up quite nasty about it. When I tried to talk with him about it, I was trying to explain to him that it was not about the money, it was about the fact that he said he was going to do something and he did not do it, and for me, this means I am working with someone who does not keep their word. He said to me, "of course it is about the money, it's ALWAYS about the money". He could not and would not even try to understand that it WAS NOT my point. I could not get it across. When I quit, he offered me more money to stay. Did I not already tell him it was not about the money? (I am telling you this little story because even 11 years out I still think like this, what you are saying, even though I have a family with two babies to care for, it is STILL not about the money). The fact that he offered me money turns me away even more.

It is hard for some people to understand that you want to feel that you are working for a higher purpose. You may be looking for work to be a sort of satisfaction. On this end, I have discovered that very few people find satisfaction in their work. Instead, they do their work, and use the money that they make to do something that does give them satisfaction, like a hobby.

Thanks for your post! I have always wondered if taking the moral high-ground was a by-product of being in scn. I have often been caught in the virtuous cycle you describe above to my own detriment. When you examine it, it seems in direct contradiction to Scientology. As a kid, I don't remember going to any courses on philosophy or social morality. Where does this moral high-ground come from?? Were we scared into this by fear of ethics punishment? While it has definitely made me a trustworthy person, it does cause problems like in the scenario you describe above.

I do realise the majority of people find no satisfaction in their jobs, but at this point I am not willing to opt in to that kind of thinking without exploring other avenues first. I have done so in the past and it was not a good thing for me. Maybe just another virtuous cycle I'm on???
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
Nice recognition/observation :yes:. Not being in your situation, I can't respond to your questions, exactly. I can say that I don't think this is so unusual in a young person. I have seen many pass through different jobs, looking for something to grab them. I went through it myself, without ever having been a scno. I envied people who seemed to know what they wanted to do, and went after it. Hobbies never did it for me either. I like doing things for people when asked, always refuse the money offered for helping someone out. And for a long time I had jobs like those you describe - until around my mid 30s, when it began to dawn on me, that I was on my own, and I needed more money, needed to earn more money . . .

I had also, by this time, figured out that I hated retail/store/restaurant hours and work schedules. I wanted a 5 day work week, 9 to 5, weekend and holidays off. I had no education, to get me there. I had skills that I had honed over the years/jobs. I had found out what I was really good at doing, and actually enjoyed doing. So I went into management, :lol:. Not kidding. REALLY. :laugh: It has worked out well enough. Growing up I was usually always in my head, so I find satisfaction in a job/work that allows me to go there, sometimes. Of course there are duties I don't like doing too, that go along with the job/work. I grit my teeth and get through the unpleasant work, so I can back to the stuff I like doing. One thing that helped me a lot, to get where I am, which is in a satisfactory place, maybe not my dream place, but certainly a good life/job, is that I spent a lot of years - while working different jobs for pay - volunteering in my off time - helping my community/people/family/friends in someway. I went through a lot of different ones too, volunteer situations, whatever interested me at the moment, and I stayed a few years, with each that I liked doing. I would leave when it was no longer satisfying. I did things not specific to charities/communities and helping people who have less, but other volunteer situations, where I was taught different things, like running a tv camera and sound, directing, sets, helping others in therapy, working with animals, disadvantaged folks/kids, or just plain physical effort sometimes, helping someone move, or paint, or fix a garden, or driving someone to an appointment. Without pay - All the while working to support myself with some paying job.

When you get to that place of seeing that you want more than you currently have, and the only way to get it is to get/earn more money, it creates a mind shift. It's not that you have to have loads of money, just more than you have now. And knowing how to leverage what you have learned, through the years and all the jobs, in order to get it.

It isn't easy - for anyone - to find a like-able job - one a person will want to stay with :no: where you feel you belong. :no: It is hard, and just like with any relationship, you will go through hard times, and times of wanting to leave, and being angry, and feeling used. Sometimes if you stick with it, anyway, it comes to a place of working out. But not always. Sometimes you have to know with it is time to go. You've already been there and done that - with co$. Leverage THAT knowledge, whenever you feel a situation is beyond repair. And move on. People in careers do that all the time. Usually a person stays in a job because they HAVE TO, HAVE NO CHOICE, that there are so many responsibilities, one doesn't have the option anymore to move on. Like getting to mid 30s and realizing you are tired of being poor, and that the only way to get ahead is to leverage what you know - and find something you like doing - and do it well. Yeah there are shit days. Bite the bullet, get through it. Maintain self respect and esteem - HOW? - by doing a good job, and accepting money for YOUR TIME - you are VALUABLE. You hang onto that, and you will know when and if it is time to move on.

In this economy, sometimes people just have to take any job available, at whatever pay they can get. Hell, that may be the future for just about everyone now. The times they are a-changing, and if we are to survive, sometimes you just have to do, what you have to do, to put food on the table and a roof over your head. When you have met a few folks looking for work, the work they have done all their adult lives, and unable to find it, and they lose their homes and pets and belongings, and families end up in transition, you realize just how lucky you are, just to have work, even at low/er pay. :sadsigh:

That brings about quite an attitude adjustment too. I am not suggesting you need one of those. :no: It is good you are questioning like this - all this. You need to do this. It is a very good sign. You are going to be OK. You will find a niche. See money as a means to an end, a good end - for you - that is, a better life for you, even if all that means is that you live in a better space, can buy a new car, find a life partner, raise a family . . . Money is a tool, not the END ALL/BE ALL. Scno has left a bad taste in your mouth regarding money, and what it means . . . Like exes who have bad tastes in mouth for religions and coercion and 'power' and other nasties encountered in scno/co$, you have an aversion to money. A distaste for money. You need to relearn what money means. Maybe aim for some kind of education on the true meaning of money and exchange, of value - and your own self-worth. Helping others and refusing pay is a sign of having no self esteem, but it is also the route to getting some, and learning your own self value.

Good people are often devalued in this world, ESPECIALLY in the co$/scno. So learn to value yourself, find meaning for yourself, in what you do. Learn that money can be used for good.

I still don't have a good relationship with money. :sigh: But I have enough to get by . . . And sometimes that is all it takes. Put yourself FIRST. Take care of yourself, do for yourself, what you give away to others, for free. Give to yourself first. Sort of like the instructions on an airline, about the air masks - if they drop down in flight, put yours on first, then help those who need it, after you are safe . . .
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
First, the feelings you have about work are not limited to people who grew up in, or were involved in, scientology. A lot of "work" in today's world is pretty meaningless, particularly the sales or paper-pushing paper types, and "wog" (young and old)people have similar attitudes toward it as what you describe. That you ran into another ex-scientologist who had similar attitudes is probably no more than a coincidence -- I wouldn't put any extra meaning on it.

Many many years ago when I was still a scientologist, several that I knew claimed to be making big bucks selling stuff door to door. The stuff they were selling was kinda cute things that sit around and gather dust and are totally useless. I tried it. I couldn't sell a thing! Finally concluded that I am just not into selling useless stuff to people, even if they want it! Forty years later my attitude toward useless junk, and the act of selling it, hasn't changed...

Second, even people who really love their work and get up every day looking forward to that day's work tasks and challenges sometimes have "those days" when they'd just rather not have to. Unfortunately, the days of being a hunter-gatherer are long gone, for most of us, and if we want the money it takes to pay for our preferred life style, we have to trudge off to the job anyway.

You might try looking into work that is more physical -- carpentry, masonry, electrician, mechanics, truck driving, operating heavy equipment, welding, baking, gardening and landscaping, etc. etc. Those trades don't necessarily have the "status" of office careers, but they often pay quite well and the physicalness can give you more sense that you actually accomplished something. Not for everyone, of course.

Here's some questions (oh yes, they are the dreaded LISTING questions!) to ask yourself which might help you eventually find work -- a career -- that pays money and that you actually like and look forward to doing every day:

-- do you prefer jeans and t-shirts, or dressing up in nice clothing every day?
-- do you prefer working indoors, or outdoors?
-- do you prefer activity that challenges your mind, or your body? or both?
-- do you prefer working alone, or with a partner or a team of people?
-- do you prefer a variety of tasks? or doing pretty much the same things over and over?
-- do you prefer the position of making decisions, directing others, etc. OR carrying out tasks directed by someone else?
-- what are your most outstanding personal talents/abilities? if you can't see them yourself, ask your friends to tell you their opinions -- might surprise you...
-- make a list of everything you've ever done as "work", and everything you've ever thought you might like to do for work, and from this list pick out those things that you LIKED doing and look at WHY -- was it the activity itself felt good? was it because people appreciated it? was it because you were paid well? (etc.)
-- make a list of the activities that you really like doing and do a little research into how you might turn that activity into PAID work to cover your life expenses.

Example, there was once a lady who loved watching soap operas on TV, so she created a business in which she watched ALL the soap operas, on several TVs, and wrote summaries of what happened that day in each, for all those other people in the world who missed that day's episode and wanted to catch up.

and you could extend the above list with other questions that help you look into the DAILY DUTIES aspect of "work" and thus lead you to finding and/or training for a career that brings you more joy and satisfaction that just the paycheck.

An example: I once considered getting trained and certified as an inspector who drives around an area inspecting and certifiying "organic" farms because: 1) I have background in agriculture, can talk the talk... 2) I like working mostly alone... 3) I grew up on farm, in rural area, so I understand the issues farm people face... 4) I like being outdoors... 5) I don't like dressing up in skirts, blazers, heels, stockings etc. -- strictly a boots and jeans person ... 6) I needed a job that paid money... 7) the growing popularity of "organic" farming in my area opened an opportunity... and so forth.

Hope this helps, and good luck to you!
 

Dennis

Patron
I think that, to have grown up in that environment, one would internalize the viewpoint that expecting exchange in return for work makes you a bad person, until it turns into a fundamental, unexamined, part of your personality that would be difficult to change.

For me, my philosophy is that free people receive a freely agreed upon exchange for their work. Slaves don't. A born-in Scn may exist with his physical body being technically free, but his mind isn't free yet. He hasn't yet internalized that achieving his own goals, and getting personal enjoyment, is a good thing.

I think you have pretty much hit the mark, particularly with last sentence. I have done a lot a work on that area but it's not easy. Do you have any expanding thoughts?
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
I must tell you all that I am dazzled by the very high quality responses to Dennis on this thread!

It strikes me that the world might well be a better place if EX scios were running things!

Later I may post some thoughts about the value of a peer "group" to the individual...something that I had in early education, the military and to some degree in scio - now I really have no "peer group" to amount to anything...and it is a significant void.

EP

And a shout out to Roger B! We should do dinner out again soon! :thumbsup:

Also to Bea - I've loved her since she first appeared here years ago! :biglove::smoochy:

Plus hail and well met to the rest of you who achieved the EP of Scientology. :coolwink:
 

Lesolee (Sith Lord)

Patron Meritorious
...
Here's some questions (oh yes, they are the dreaded LISTING questions!)
...
-- do you prefer working indoors, or outdoors?
...
FYI: No, they are not Listing questions.:eyeroll:

"Who or what would prefer working outdoors?"
would look like a typical Listing question in the area you mention.

[However, you can't just make up Listing questions because most would not List to one item and therefore would not be valid Listing questions]
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
You might try looking into work that is more physical -- carpentry, masonry, electrician, mechanics, truck driving, operating heavy equipment, welding, baking, gardening and landscaping, etc. etc. Those trades don't necessarily have the "status" of office careers, but they often pay quite well and the physicalness can give you more sense that you actually accomplished something. Not for everyone, of course.

As far as jobs that are equal amounts physical/mental, you might look at nursing (yes, there are male nurses, a male friend of mine makes good money at it) or other hospital work. Doing off-hour shifts pays better.
 

Lesolee (Sith Lord)

Patron Meritorious
...
It is hard for some people to understand that you want to feel that you are working for a higher purpose. You may be looking for work to be a sort of satisfaction. On this end, I have discovered that very few people find satisfaction in their work. Instead, they do their work, and use the money that they make to do something that does give them satisfaction, like a hobby.
...
Bea has hit the nail on the head. PURPOSE is key. In the Sea Org or on Staff there is a sky-high purpose. It doesn’t matter what role you perform as long as you BELIEVE in the Purpose and the Purpose is strong. You could be licking envelopes or digging ditches and still be happy that you were forwarding the Cause. As soon as the Purpose is found to be false or that you have been mis-informed – well, then people leave. But it is difficult to replace a sky-high Purpose with grubbing around making a living.
 

JBTrendy

Patron with Honors
Hy Dennis,

This is a very interesting topic you're bringing up here that definitely rings a bell in my personal life. I do have exactly the same problem though I'm not a $cientology kid but attested past life Dianetic Clear so I could very well also attribute this to my indoctrination with this so called philosophy. I haven't solve it yet so this thread might help me also.

RogerB suggested process may very well be effective but what I think at that point is that it has to see with purposes and goals. Money is basically a form of energy and thus is part of the MEST universe so it doesn't constitute a valid motivation as such unless you're down to it which is obviously not your case. Money is also a trap in the sense that along with it goes possessions of material goods and habits of costly way of life that will urge someone to be always in the need for it which is a kind of alienation that a free being might not want to be submitted to. Not to mention that money is a very aberrational subject that one who want to keep his sanity and clean hands would wish to have the minimal thing to do with it in order to avoid contamination.

Though this is pretty much how I feel about money I come from a pretty wealthy background and despite the fact that I'm currently quite poor I still do have a taste for nice things and have been able from time to time to earn fairly good amount of cash and felt good about it especially when as a cult member I had such a theta and strong purpose that it made it all so positive.

So here is my point. As long as I had a goal that really motivated me and was high enough to feed my true aspirations and motives I had no problem in making and having money though most of the time I was doing things for free and kept my level of expenses at a relatively low rate. Now that I'm out of $cientology I have a problem in setting goals and potential operative level of such a magnitude and thus feel purposeless and no job or activity is sufficiently appealing to me so I would want to bound myself to it. Getting paid implies some obligations and active participation to a project or cause for which one has to have a real drive or it is like selling your body and soul. :unsure::unsure::unsure:

Is LRH responsible for having been implanting in us such a high level of postulated will that he stole our lives ?

What could be a solution ?

So far what I could think of was to develop something that would out create $cientology so all our true goals and motivations could be upgraded into a kind of ideal scene of ideology that would work and make people happy that we could call " IDEALOGY ". :eyeroll::eyeroll::eyeroll:
 
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TG1

Angelic Poster
Dennis,

Interesting post.

People vary tremendously in terms of what turns them on in the world of work.

Have you ever done any psychological testing that is slanted toward career and work evaluations? In other words, what are your personal attributes and attitudes and how do those things intersect with all the kinds of work out there? Which ones (because of who you are and what you're like) would you find satisfying, rewarding, interesting that have the potential to turn into a passion for you? If you haven't done this testing, I would urge you to do so.

Just because you're like others here or not like others here with regard to what turns you on in the world of work does NOT make you right or wrong. It might (or might not) have anything to do with your Scientology experiences.

I'd urge you to look more broadly at ALL the jobs / work out there in the world. You're still quite young and clearly quite bright. You could choose from a broader array of things that you might do. All the jobs in the world you might soon qualify for are probably not jobs you might randomly run into.

Very best wishes to you.

TG1
 
Hi Dennis. I struggled with this for about 10 years as well. I was born-in and spent 16 years in the the SO, half of that in Int Management. The answer, as it applied to me, has been hit on in pieces by everyone here so I will just summarize the parts that worked for me. Kudos to all previous responders.


When I was first out, I would sometimes wonder about the other people that had left the SO around the same time I did, about the amount of money they were making, which was usually very low. I remember being very confused about why "the most able beings on the planet" were not shooting up corporate ladders and taking over wall street.:confused2: I would then wonder about myself and why I was working for minimum wage after spending several years as a fairly "high up" director in int management, and my conclusion was always, "this is my motivator for leaving." :duh:


I think Bea said it first, PURPOSE is the underlying problem. In the SO you are given this massive purpose to save the friggin universe, so when you are doing something else, how the hell can you compete? For me, I would start getting bored with whatever job I was doing and the thoughts would start to creep in, "Dude you might as well quit doing this because it is not doing anything to propagate mankind's freedom." I usually wouldn't quit because I hate the job hunting process, but I would start working more hours than I reported on my time card, so I would be paid less, because I didn't feel like I was worth it. And I did this through all the "wog" jobs I had when I first routed out, whether it was phone sales, construction, etc.


I just didn't feel I was worthy of being paid for my time, and I believe this stems from the complete out exchange relationship Scn has with its SO and Org staff members. This was also touched on already. On staff or in the SO, you're expected to give 100% of yourself to the cause. I remember feeling so ashamed whenever I had to go to a doctor, and had to ask medical for money. To make myself feel like less of a leach, I would not ask for a ride to the doctor, instead I would walk the 15-20 blocks, with a 101 degree fever, because it made me feel better about being such a burden.:screwy:


This took a really long time to get over. It was a really chaotic time. I remember when I first got out and I had all these crap theories in my head about how "wogs are lazy" and they lead meaningless lives, and one SO member is worth 10 of them. So the first couple jobs I had, I would work at about 1/2 my "sea org" speed & competence, because I didn't want to be too out reality for these poor wogs. I was fired again and again for being a slacker. I was shocked! :no: These wogs weren't the stupid, sad, lifeless husks I had been conditioned to expect. They were fast, competent and highly organized like nothing I had ever seen, despite all my years in what was supposed to be the most elite group in the universe.


So I stepped up my game and started producing good viable products, but I still felt it was worthless because it had no purpose. I had no purpose. I eventually stumbled upon a purpose when my girl got pregnant. I discovered the ultimate purpose, caring for someone else's present and future. So like others have said, the answer seems to be, to find a purpose. I had actually started hitting on a purpose before the old lady got pregnant, and that was to save for retirement. I really liked (and still do) the idea of retiring in such a way that I can do whatever I want, whenever I want, with no financial restrictions. To do this, you have to save up quite a nest egg. For me I have to save up about 1.7 million to be able to live well in retirement. So maybe that can be a starter goal, I don't know, it is really a personal thing. You just have to find yours.


I remember at one point I was thinking of rejoining the SO, because I just felt so useless out here. Luckily I had already been having doubts about the workability of scn, so I didn't. In the end, the purpose of, "saving the universe" is definitely a good goal, but scn does not have the tools and technology needed to do it, so why waste your time? Leave it to the Avengers.


So in closing, I think the thing to do is find a new purpose. It is a personal pursuit, so I can't tell you what yours is. For me it started with taking care of myself, and became taking care of my family. To that end, I spent several years catching up on my education (I hadn't been to school since I joined the SO when I was 12). I picked a career that matched up with a hobby of mine and had the potential to make lots of money, and now I do just that. I am now content, with a goal and way to get there. I hope we are able to help you too.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
And Dennis, (Sorry on my last post I had to head out and I think I ended it hastily)....

Don't think from my post that I am saying to give up and find a hobby. I hope that is not what you think I meant. I was saying that is what a lot of people do.

But I think finding your path is up to you. We can all suggest, but really it boils down to you, and what is in your heart.

And maybe asking yourself what you want to do is not working.

How about asking yourself what you DON'T want to do? That may narrow it down a little easier...

And give yourself time. It may be a while, and you may bounce around a while before you find your niche. That is ok. Give it time. But keep your eye on that mountain.

Lots of luck.

Bea
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I think you have pretty much hit the mark, particularly with last sentence. I have done a lot a work on that area but it's not easy. Do you have any expanding thoughts?

I think RogerB expanded a bit on what I was thinking of.

Essentially, you need to become comfortable with the idea of deserving good things, and being personally prosperous.

If you have a desire to help people while getting paid, I might suggest a career as a paramedic or nurse.
 
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