Would it be better if Scientology never happened? (poll)

[Vinaire]

Your intention has *always* been 'to help others' Vinnie.

Even back when you were doing 'other practices'
That's my perception.

Zinj

Thank you.

And if I make an error, I am probably hardest on myself, and do everything to correct myself.

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[Zinjifar]

Thank you.

And if I make an error, I am probably hardest on myself, and do everything to correct myself.

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Road to Hell
paving

Zinj

 

[SomeGuy]

To me present is what is present. If a memory of past presents itself then that memory or picture exists in the present.

Figure-figure involves speculation about things that are not already there. One is putting speculations there after the fact of the question in order to come up with an answer.

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I see, I'm curious how looking figures into

There will always be some who get into figure-figure and may not be able to respond back properly

Wouldn't you wanting to interpret answers to see if they are proper be figure-figure?

 

[Good twin]

Wouldn't you wanting to interpret answers to see if they are proper be figure-figure?

No that's just "figure" not "figure-figure".

 

[Vinaire]

Road to Hell
paving

Zinj

Maybe you know a better road. Hubbard thought so too.

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[Free to shine]

The miscommunication here is based on the fact that one person is viewing this through the prism of what they learned in Scientology, and the other person is viewing this through the prism of what they unlearned once they left Scientology.

I disagree with the very premise of the concern, and that disagreement is based on the fact that I don't see anything unusual, wrong, counter-productive, insane, or otherwise "out" about someone blowing off steam or being angered by something or having what Scientologists diminish as mere "charge".

There is nothing wrong with an honest emotion. There isn't anything wrong about an emotion, period. That Hubbard's foundation starts with seeing the mind as a computer is the basis of people having problems with others having "emotions". His perfect, new man - homo novis - is an always-rational Vulcan-like automaton who can master his emotions and forever analyze the true path in a sea of chaos.

Problem is this isn't only impossible it's also incredibly stupid.

There is nothing wrong with steaming up and blowing it out. There is nothing wrong with re-experiencing that. It's called being alive. It's part of life. And sometimes it feels good too!

If you view energetic conversation and creative engagement as nothing more than "charge" on an "item" then I feel sorry for you for existing in that pedantic, drab, dreary little world you must have to inhabit.

I prefer being able to experience the full range of emotions and ideas. They don't hurt me.

Excellent post!

 

[Vinaire]

I see, I'm curious how looking figures into



Wouldn't you wanting to interpret answers to see if they are proper be figure-figure?

In a way what one looks at gets filtered through one's present viewpoint. Maybe better looking comes from looking at the same thing from various viewpoints.

But that would be different from figure-figure, which is essentially chewing on incomplete data from the same viewpoint, and adding speculations.

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[SomeGuy]

No that's just "figure" not "figure-figure".

Heh, the terms / definitions of them are so odd to me.

Just from my own personal perspective, helping people by processing, specially if they haven't signed up for it and it's basically forced even if it's with good intentions, is at odds with the concept.

No offense intended here Vinaire, it just seems like a subversive act and akin to playing with fire. Specially if those you are trying to help have already been burned once by subversive processing.

Perhaps you can see why I made the initial observation. It seems you feel empowered with new found knowledge / freedom and are looking for test subjects / practice in employing it. Perhaps that's not your intention but from reading your posts that is the impression I come away with.

Edit: And this is not throwing judgement on good or bad...just method.

 

[Free to shine]

Perhaps there are some people that will 'blame the church' for the rest of their lives, but surely that's their perrogative, and if it makes them happy then fine, but to 'blame', in my eyes, is to hand over one's own personal power I feel, however I still find it imperative to talk about it, for the moment anyway, try to remember, and above all, heal the trust that has been broken within me. It's the feeling of being lied to to such an extent and being used, abused and let down. It takes time to accept and people will go through whatever they have to go through at their own paces. That's all from me, I hope this helps answer at least one of your questions. and my apologies as this wasn't intended to be so long.

P.S. I feel also that deep down, people feel more let down by themselves for allowing it all to happen in the first place, compromising their own reality and going along with stuff that they knew to be very wrong. They .. we allowed ourselves to be treated as slaves, used, abused, threatened, lied to and on and on, so my take on that is until there is an 'acceptance' of what's happened, there's going to be a need to post.

Yes, you are right. It can be such a total shock when it really sinks in. Even now I still find areas that rock me with the sheer deviousness of the whole jigsaw.

I remember years ago when someone asked me "what is scientology?" thinking that it would take a year or two to tell...because the concepts covered EVERY aspect of life and the way you look at things. It really does and so the question "what is scientology to me?" takes just as long to answer....and redefine. And that's OK.

 

[Free to shine]

I am still puzzled about something. Anyway, it will come to me.

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You did say you would consider my suggestion...but perhaps the habit is hard to break?

 

[Vinaire]

Heh, the terms / definitions of them are so odd to me.

Just from my own personal perspective, helping people by processing, specially if they haven't signed up for it and it's basically forced even if it's with good intentions, is at odds with the concept.

No offense intended here Vinaire, it just seems like a subversive act and akin to playing with fire. Specially if those you are trying to help have already been burned once by subversive processing.

Perhaps you can see why I made the initial observation. It seems you feel empowered with new found knowledge / freedom and are looking for test subjects / practice in exploying it. Perhaps that's not your intention but from reading your posts that is the impression I come away with.

Edit: And this is not throwing judgement on good or bad...just method.

The point I am making is that "processing" is more common on this board than people are aware of. I just made it very obvious. And only those with Scientology background objected to that because it is very objectionable in Scientology. At the same time they won't recognize the covert attempts at processing they are indulging in, or which is being run on them.

There is a lot of covert processing going on here. Now it is becoming clearer to me what I have been objecting to in LH's posts. Jehovah Witness and Evangelists do the same. Praise the Lord type thing.

I have been pretty upfront with my questions, and I don't think answer to any of those questions would have harmed anybody. I simply asked where some particular idea came from.

Maybe the word "processing" is a charged item here.

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[Vinaire]

You did say you would consider my suggestion...but perhaps the habit is hard to break?

It would certainly seem so.

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[Alanzo]

No one is answering anyone's questions here, or really addressing any of the points each person is making.

Just an observation...

 

[Zinjifar]

There is a lot of covert processing going on here. Now it is becoming clearer to me what I have been objecting to in LH's posts. Jehovah Witness and Evangelists do the same. Praise the Lord type thing.

I have been pretty upfront with my questions, and I don't think answer to any of those questions would have harmed anybody. I simply asked where some particular idea came from.

Maybe the word "processing" is a charged item here.

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Standard Scientologist Mantra:

We didn't do it!
You can't prove we did it!
Everybody Else Does It Too!
Everybody Else Does It Worse!
It Was A Rogue Agent!
It Was An Infiltrator, Out To Make Scientology Look Bad!
We Didn't Do It!

Repeat ad infinitum

So far, you're transitioning from #3 to #4 Vinnie

Zinj

 

[SomeGuy]

No one is answering anyone's questions here, or really addressing any of the points each person is making.

Just an observation...

Perceptive.

 

[Vinaire]

Standard Scientologist Mantra:

We didn't do it!
You can't prove we did it!
Everybody Else Does It Too!
Everybody Else Does It Worse!
It Was A Rogue Agent!
It Was An Infiltrator, Out To Make Scientology Look Bad!
We Didn't Do It!

Repeat ad infinitum

So far, you're transitioning from #3 to #4 Vinnie

Zinj

Well, I did ask "processing " type questions. And I am now observing the effects of it.

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[Vinaire]

I now have a better understanding of what Alanzo has been saying about hypnotism. It is quite prevalent. A Scientology process is hypnotic to the degree it is evaluative.

And so is any communication which is evaluative but under the radar of the other person.

Hypnotism works by establishing agreement.

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[Zinjifar]

I now have a better understanding of what Alanzo has been saying about hypnotism. It is quite prevalent. A Scientology process is hypnotic to the degree it is evaluative.

And so is any communication which is evaluative but under the radar of the other person.

Hypnotism works by establishing agreement.

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That's very close to accurate.

It's missing *how* it works, but, yes, when suggestion becomes agreement is certainly part of it

Zinj

 

[Vinaire]

That's very close to accurate.

It's missing *how* it works, but, yes, when suggestion becomes agreement is certainly part of it

Zinj

You are agreeing with me.

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[Zinjifar]

You are agreeing with me.

.

Agreement isn't a bad thing. I agree with millions; nay, billions of people every day.

Hypnotism is about disabling the usual menagerie of filters we accumulate over our lives, most of which are very valuable, some of which are less so, some fewer of which are actually counter-productive.

Hypnotism can disable *all* of them, and, picking and choosing which to disable becomes a dangerous game, even when the 'hypnotist' is yourself.

When it's a bug-shit-crazy UFO Cult....

Well, you do the math.

Zinj