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Would *you* ever go back?

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
There is a power state or power beingness that you can get into that is quite psychotic.

It is most likely what TC and DM are in right now - you feel you know all - that the only reason anything goes wrong - is because "others" are causing the wrongness.

You are blind to the consequences of the effects that your actions cause on others - LRH went into that state in mid '64 - it got worse and worse as the years went on.

I've been in this state - it is very evil.

It is almost the full dramatization of "I'm right - and everyone else is wrong."

This psychotic power state is what causes most people to fear power.

When you are in it - you feel invincible - very sick. Very hard to let go of, as it is usually accompanied with very survival (to you) power stats.

To run it out - it needs to be turned on fully - in a very safe environment. :)

Alan

Yeah, it's a state with no compassion. Totally self-determined. You can see when TC talks about psychiatry how glib he is yet he knows he is right but you feel he is fighting like a nut and has no love in his voice. TC and DM sound like a bunch of kids in the boy scouts. No brains or power, just that weird power trip you describe. Sick.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I am a little flinchy on solo material - not because I don't think it works - but more because I do not have it set up correctly for new people.

Usually the best way on much of the material - is to get some professional sessions - that way you have a good model - then do solo on it.

Hi Alan,

I just got a copy of the Clean Slate procedure from your site. I've never tried it, so thought I'd put it into a Robot Auditor module and try it out on myself. It's a bit of work, but I find it much more comfortable being audited like that now than simply trying to run stuff solo.

I haven't even started making up the screens yet, and I don't know how much I will slant it to new people or just myself. For instance, I made up a module to run Power Processing (not Va) a month or so ago, and although it worked OK there was no way I could make it workable on someone who wasn't already a well-trained auditor. But the several modules that I do have online are usable by people who aren't well-trained auditors, so maybe this will work out for them and maybe it won't.

I can't make it available to anyone else for copyright reasons (your copyright, not mine), but for interest's sake I will post my results from using it in this form.

Paul
 

nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
I am a little flinchy on solo material - not because I don't think it works - but more because I do not have it set up correctly for new people.

Usually the best way on much of the material - is to get some professional sessions - that way you have a good model - then do solo on it.

I understand.

To use your terminology as best I can, got any good set ups for dealing with "team mates" stuck in an "evil being universe" who have been, er, probably mis-repaired to the point that the significances have been run out of the mass?

Don't seem to be much to do about that except let it all turn on, as in "Ye ha, once more into the breach" kind of approach!

Nick
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
It is in fact quite deadly - as it is easy to overun - even the most harmful of people do not do that much continuous harm.

Sec Check questions once they are overun then act as "suggestive implants" - enforced Sec Checks act as "heavy implants" - you will actually begin to act out the enforced commands.

What is even worse - badly done Sec Checks open up the door for being taken over by "demonics."

You will often find you life will deteriorate quite badly if there is too much Sec Checking (enforced O/W write-ups cause the same destructive effect.):grouch:

Alan

That's a fact, Alan. All in all the effect took about 5 years to run out. Fortunately for me, my life stats went way up after I left Scientology and as a result it was easy for me to finally spot the insanity of it.

Once you have spent some time being true to yourself and your own goals, the deleterious effects of lots of sec-checking (I'm speaking for myself only here) seem to fade away.
 

Fancy

Patron Meritorious
HI Magoo.

I am talking to one trying to handle my father's local account at the org.

My father said get the money back but I am sure they would not have that much. I told him the rules about not going back again and he said get the money back.

I know they will probably not have it so I might take it out and sell the books and stuff. He said he would want to see them.

I tried to avoid taking the product but tried to do an exchange to give the account to someone for money. Alas I should have known better. Call me brain dead but she tried to sell me the Basic Package and I wanted a trade with someone in the org for the account.

That lead into the alter is of the tech in the email which she says I am listeing to someone like I can't think for myself.

This person lied in an incident so she sold her soul. Basically I know she is nice but she still sold her soul.

There was nothing of valid I could add to the CBS and the stress would have been too high for me to deal with. As well as they do alter what is.

I still have not crossed the bridge myself to get a refund. I think part of it is due to abuse syndrome and the others that I really did love unwisely.

I no longer read the other forums and only check in here and in the freezone. I work on my art when I feel ok.

Yes the wheels of time moves on and I expect in time I will move to where I need to be.

Barb

Hi Barb---

Good to talk with you :) Yeah....losing loved ones is one of THE biggest
losses, imnsho, and one of Scientology's biggest abuses.

So---glad we're moving ON!

Here's my motto: Life Rolls On

And ya know what? IT DOES! So you can roll on, happily, or roll on sadly---
but one way or the other---life ROLLS ON :party:

Be well,

Tory/Magoo~~
 

beyond_horizons

Patron Meritorious
I'm just curious here--if anyone would return to Scientology, "If"---
These message boards are the closest I actually got to the subject after several decades off and on with it. Learned tons more about it here than there.

So I guess wouldn't know where to return to other than occasionally returning to here!
:D
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
barb---

Hey, if your Dad has Money "on account" (Like a Savings Account with Scientology) GET THE MONEY BACK!!!!

Join Pre-Paid Legal, if YOU don't want the hassle, and just make sure they
understand fully the difference in money used (Services taken) and
Money on Account: That IS his money, and IF it's still there, ask them
to get it.

They'll write to Scientology---and there's a good chance you'll get it.
Don't waste it on buying more books---my suggestion.

Good luck with it, and say "hi" to your Dad :wink:

My best,

Tory/Magoo~~
 

Fancy

Patron Meritorious
I will tell him about that. He is in a adult home and knows he will not get any more auditing in the church and I have told him of the alterations.

He said to get the money back but I am pretty dang sure the org would not have the cash.

The next time he calls I will tell him.

Barb
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I will tell him about that. He is in a adult home and knows he will not get any more auditing in the church and I have told him of the alterations.

He said to get the money back but I am pretty dang sure the org would not have the cash.

The next time he calls I will tell him.

Barb

I'd hardly be the one to ask about auditing availibility, but, if he's in a home and would like it, then what the hell. The options Ralph is offering with his C-meter and the possibilities using a laptop/PDA would be worth looking into.

Certainly they'd be things that would be easily offset by the 'money on account' and, *for christ sake, it's *his* money!!!*

Zinj
 

Rawl

Patron
As I just said on another thread, I didn't see it that way.
I didn't and don't see anything wrong with that piece.

You've seen successes and failures in Scientology.
You've seen successes and failures in real life.

I think if someone is "mind-controlled or delusional" as you described yourself during your Scn years, they will be by one thing or another whether it's family, friends, societal mores or Scientology. I don't think the blame lies entirely with Scientology for your own experience.


I'm the "PTS to the middle classes" TC was calling a spectator
in that piece, I'm not active in the FSM or VM or staff or SO fields
any longer. Good for him for taking us on.

I really thought nothing of TC jumping on the couch or standing his ground when he got sprayed with water or whatever. He seems to go from success to success. I don't know that I could come to know the mind of any celebrity from what I read in the press, but he seems to have integrity.

As a Scientologist, I don't pay too much attention to TC movie-celebrity. TC Scientologist certainly echoed the party-line and was listened to and admired in the IAS event.

There are a lot of questions the critic community asks that need answered, some things are concerns. But by and large, the 99% tittle-tattle makes it easy to dismiss what is written by the critics as moronic hogwash. Stay focused, push on real issues, forget the tabloid nonsense. You're better than that.



Rawl---I was pretty sure you were still "in".

So tell me, what does a Scientologist think of Tom Cruise? Can you not
see the "True Believer" in him? Doesn't he look fanatical to you? I'm really
curious about this----I'd love to hear what you have to say.

I watch that and literally think: Thank GOD I woke up from that mind controlled,
delusional state I was in!
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Rawl,

As an experienced Scientologist, you'd be aware of the Fair Game Law, particularly the first half of the Fair Game Law: "Trick , lie to," and you'd also be aware of the policy of applying battle tactics, with the #1 tactic of battle being deviousness and deception.

Tom Cruise is a pampered celebrity, who was asked to give a pep talk to the rank and file, a rank and file with whom he has little in common.

What's your excuse Rawl?

Do you really not know, or are you just pretending not to know?
 
As I just said on another thread, I didn't see it that way.
I didn't and don't see anything wrong with that piece.

You've seen successes and failures in Scientology.
You've seen successes and failures in real life.

I think if someone is "mind-controlled or delusional" as you described yourself during your Scn years, they will be by one thing or another whether it's family, friends, societal mores or Scientology. I don't think the blame lies entirely with Scientology for your own experience.

That sounds like you're rationalizing maltreatment, stating that it was, "going to happen, anyway."

I don't think that an assumed inevitability of an event, regardless of whatever actual statistical validity applies to it, justifies its perpetration or diminishes the responsibility of the perpetrator.
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks Tory, but I need to clarify something. Since leaving Scn in 82 I have carried on looking at philosophies and other systems and am in great case shape, much better than I ever was in Scn. :happydance:

I actually can feel just about any emotion without feeling any persisting charge! It's a paradox but once you freely allow feelings, they don't bother you. :thumbsup:

So now I can look at my contribution in Scn and how I ignored LRH and MSH's abuses and feel ashamed of my part in it without feeling any charge or wishing it were otherwise.

Looking at what I did as a Scientologist the bad and the good is wonderful. The shame, the pride, the grief, the fear, the joy, the ecstasy are all delicious! :thumbsup:

So I can freely and joyfully say I am ashamed, without any regret, of how I ignored the Hubbard black ops that I knew about, I just recognise it as a done fact.

I think one of the bigest problems an ex-scientologist faces is coming to terms with the emotions they now experience about their time in Scn.

It took me a decade or two to recover. I hope it is faster now for people, thanks to the internet.

I believe we each have to accept our feelings fully and cry if we need to about our story.

I hope we each reach the point where eventually it is just a story. A wonderful, exciting, terrible story accepted without protest or regret! :happydance:


Lionheart, what an interesting viewpoint! I'm treating negative emotions as if they were negative emotions and looking at the flow and giving it a neutral acknowledgement in the attempt to remain in a state of equanimity.

What you describe sounds to me like when I purposely watch one of those GPM movies just so I can get the thrill of being mildly restimulated.

That is a new idea to me, being ashamed without any charge attached. I'm still rolling that one around in my head. I guess to me charge creates negative emotions, or they are handlocked in some way.
 

Fancy

Patron Meritorious
I can't count the number of strokes he had and He can't communicate very well. I often have to guess at what he is trying to say.

He sometimes writes it when he can. He said he wanted the money back and I made it clear that means no church ever again.

I also told him they probably don't have the cash as well. Local org in the past could not keep the phone on.

The person I was talking to did not answer me. I know she is a good person but she lied to the national news once to protect the church. That bothers me. It was better today no comment.

Barb
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I also told him they probably don't have the cash as well. Local org in the past could not keep the phone on.

Don't worry about that, it's not your problem. They will find the cash. They were willing to take it for no service, and if it gets sent uplines then this is what needs to be handled. I know it feels hard, when you think of the staff slaving away in a lower org, but that is how it is right now. And your Dad had every right to ask for it back. Let's hope it all changes soon. :)
 

Rawl

Patron
Hello George,

No, it's not the track I was aiming at. I didn't state it well.
Basically I was riffing on the "mind-controlled" label.

I just mean that it's easy for someone to regret an association
or a relationship or an action and say "well, I was just influenced"
by them. The outrage and moral indignation has often little to do with
the actions of the other party.

Like an ex-lover's tiff.

That's how I read almost all ex-Scn war
stories, "he said, she said" no substance, really.



That sounds like you're rationalizing maltreatment, stating that it was, "going to happen, anyway."

I don't think that an assumed inevitability of an event, regardless of whatever actual statistical validity applies to it, justifies its perpetration or diminishes the responsibility of the perpetrator.
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
That's how I read almost all ex-Scn war
stories, "he said, she said" no substance, really.

Almost all? So some of the stories you find compelling? I guess the fact that the LRH lied about himself and the Church perpetuates those lies is fine with you? That families are broken apart in the name of "disconnection" is OK by you. That COB lies under oath is OK by you? That COB is altering the tech is OK too?

I'd like to understand how you rationalize continuing your support.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Almost all? So some of the stories you find compelling? I guess the fact that the LRH lied about himself and the Church perpetuates those lies is fine with you? That families are broken apart in the name of "disconnection" is OK by you. That COB lies under oath is OK by you? That COB is altering the tech is OK too?

I'd like to understand how you rationalize continuing your support.

Rawl is a "good" $cientologist and can rationalize anything.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=54605&postcount=2
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Rawl is a "good" $cientologist and can rationalize anything.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=54605&postcount=2

You know I was a good Scientologist too until a month ago. But I had never looked at all the information available on the net. To have looked at it all and to characterize the brutality and lies as no more than a mere lover's tiff is really beyond me. It is mind-boggling in fact. That's why I ask him about it. I'd like to understand how he manages to maintain the charade. Ah, well, it just dawned on me, perhaps it's his job to be here. How about enlightening us Rawl?
 
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