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Would you tell?

Natalie

Patron with Honors
If she would leave you because you were in a cult in the past, then she isn't the girl for you. Having been in a cult makes for interesting conversation. I find most people are curious about it.

I grew up in Scientology and left with three generations of my family a few years ago. If someone wants to judge me in a negative way oveer that, then they can kiss my ex-cultie ass.


You've kinda hit the nail on the head. I'm not worried she'll leave. I'm worried she'll be interested and want to talk about it. I'm worried that this will be a conversation topic in our lives. To me the ideal reaction would be to tell her and have her say "ok" and never speak of it again, but I don't really see that happening.
 

Osiris

Patron with Honors
I think you worry too much

I had a girlfriend not long after leaving the Cult

I didn't make a point of telling her, but when the conversation came up where I could volunteer the information, I did

I think she had a few questions, which I answered, & then she was satisfied....

I like to have an Honest Relationship with my girlfriends & if I cannot discuss everything with her ....maybe she is not right for me

On the other hand in the workplace, I feel it is not there business, & I would not volunteer the Information, unless I feel I really wanted too (like if someone was thinking about joining Scientology, I would like to give them some insight what they are getting into.....)
 
Wow...I hesitate to say anything here...in some ways I agree with or at least understand all the viewpoints shared, conflicting as they are...and they are all valid, depending on the situation. :)

Once upon a time I was that Non-Scientologist girlfriend...so I understand this from the other person's perspective... :no:

I know everyone's situation is unique. For me, a lot depends on two things...how long have you known her/actively dated her, and how well do you know her? How much are you emotionally invested in this relationship? Do you want to marry her? Live with her? Or is this a little more casual of an involvement than that, more a girlfriend for right now, "until someone better comes along", or "we're just living in the moment" kind of thing?

The advice I would give you would be very different depending on your level of involvement with her and the type of relationship you have, or that she thinks you have, together.

She is confusing Scientology with Christian Science, a pretty common mistake, which tells me that she is not really interested in either or much of a deep thinker on the subjects of religion or spirituality, or cults... Most people aren't so that's nothing against her.

It is telling, in a way, that you are witholding this from her, because you don't want to have to talk about it and answer her questions and deal with all the emotions that doing that will stir up for you. I think maybe you have a bigger issue to deal with regarding putting Scientology behind you...it's a good sign that you have gotten to the point where you can laugh about it with your folks...but you still aren't ready to be fully honest and open about your time "in" the Cult.

I understand wanting to compartmentalize it away from most of the rest of your life and friends, that's a pretty good coping mechanism for getting on with life. But you will be better served if you do deal with those feelings you are avoiding, eventually, once you are in a good strong place to do so. But if you do see a future with this woman, then you should tell her, only choose the time, place and circumstances so that they will serve your needs, and not totally blindside her.

Talking about another high control group might be a very good way to start off a conversation about it, one with a similar bad reputation like the Moonies. Watching a vid like Steve Hassan also...you can judge her reaction a bit, and then decide how much or when to tell her, or even if you want to tell her at all.

Just to give fair warning about her possible (probable) reactions...if she is anything like a normally socialized woman...once she finds out that you have "hidden this from her" and are reluctant to talk about it...she will want to find out all she can about it (maybe even come on this board) and "help" you with your emotions about it. Women love to talk about emotionally thorny or complicated subjects, and to "help" their partners with their problems. So don't even go there unless you are very willing to talk it over with her quite bit and answer all her questions, etc., until she is satisfied. The wisest course of action for you would be just not to bring it up.

If something happens and she questions you directly, then yes, do be honest about it, don't lie to her.

Chances are good that if and when you do tell her, she will feel hurt/puzzled why you took so long to tell her if it was "no big deal" in your life, and it's all in the past, etc. She might question you about the other kinds of things that boyfriends might hide or withold from girlfriends, such as...ever been arrested? Spent time in jail? Ever done drugs? No DUIs? No mental illness? Never married before? No kids?, etc., which is a normal and natural reaction. She may very well wonder, gosh, if he hid something this big about his life, what else isn't he telling me?

So be prepared for a reaction, even if she is normally a nice sweet girl, of the Spanish inquisition...her friends/family may advise her to do a professional background check on you, etc. She will talk about this with her friends, that's normal. Be prepared for her to feel upset over your not mentioning it sooner...it is a lie of omission. It will be normal for her to feel betrayed/hurt by your not telling her something of this magnitude.

Also, even though you are making light of your involvement here, a lot depends on how long you were in, that you were in the SO (pretty deeply committed to the Cult) and what kinds of activities you did while in.

Who knows, maybe Auntie La La is right, and she is witholding some things from you, too...:) (She could be OSA! :omg: :coolwink:)

The time to casually mention it is gone, would have been when she told you about the first call or contact she got from COS.

With luck she will have a compassionate response if you let her know that your primary reason for not telling her before was embarrassment. I think you have some unresolved feelings about your time "in" which you need to deal with to be fully free, but you can do it on your own timeline, so long as you don't gunnysack this forever.

I think on some level, if you really trusted her as your good friend, and knew her well, you would have told her already. So maybe your commitment to a relationship with her is not all that deep. Maybe that's something you should take a look at? I don't know how long the two of you have been "together". Maybe the relationship is not serious enough for you to tell her, yet? Do you see yourself with this same person six years from now?

Only you can answer these kinds of questions, and can decide what is best for you to do.

That you are reluctant to "rock the boat" now, as you are enjoying more of a normal life, tells me that you are not really ready to talk about it with a girlfriend...and that you have some more healing to do before you are more comfortable discussing it.

So grant yourself that time, if that is what serves you best. :)

Keep reading and writing here, if it is helping you. :thumbsup:

Good luck to you, with whatever transpires. :)
 
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rhansrider

Patron with Honors
Whatever you decide about telling her is up to you. Personally I always go with honesty in a relationship. Even a "I got involved in a cult, I am now out but still is hard to talk about". would at least let her know something happened in your past that you are still working through.

On a totally different topic. "Wog" may be a Scientology term, but out here in the real non-cult world, it is a very nasty racist term that most people find VERY offensive. If I found a person I was involved with called me his "wog girlfriend" I would not BE his girlfriend from that moment.

You may relish "being in the wog world": part of that is realizing you were in a cult and am now in the real world. Keep using that term and you will never free yourself from part of the cult-think.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
I told my (now) husband pretty early on in our dating that I had been involved in Scn. He had heard of it, and I think he asked a few questions about it.

I explained a little bit of the beliefs as far as Spirit, mind, body, the reactive mind, the ARC triangle, etc. I felt like puking while trying to explain without my own personal feelings about it getting in the way.

Anyways, he thought it was ok, but thankfully not interested in finding out more. Yay.

But I had to tell him anyways, because I had to explain why he would likely never ever ever meet my mother (who is still in the Sea Org while I run around being a raging SP).

It has been great to be open with him, because then if I need to, I can talk about it. Plus I can lurk ESMB without having to explain myself to him.

It's been years, and he has collected a little bit of lingo from me. Mainly RPF, Sea Org. Those are the ones I talk about the most! He has a lot of grey shirts and they used to remind me of the RPF. Not much anymore though.

-----

Also the entirety of my family on my mothers side have, in some way, been affected by my mothers decision to disappear into the Sea Org in 1975 and not re-emerge. And so, for that reason, it comes up in conversation pretty often with the rest of the family who tries to understand, but absolutely cannot understand why my mother has not met her newest granddaughter or son in law.

----

In summary, I think it is a good idea, at the right time, of course, to bring it up. Let her know about it. Be open with each other.

It helps to be able to talk about it for yourself too!

Even after being out for 7 years, I still have lingering emotions and reactions from my time in Scn and the Sea org and it is really nice to be able to talk to my husband about it. We keep it light and laugh alot about it, and that really helps.

I told him when I was pregnant that I really wanted to do the interview with SP Times about abortions and my husband was very supportive of it. He even watched the interview and told me I did a good job on it.

I hope this helps.
 

StickbyMe

Patron with Honors
Thanks everybody. I've got a lot of thinking to do, but maybe ultimately the thing to do is tell her.

On a totally different topic. "Wog" may be a Scientology term, but out here in the real non-cult world, it is a very nasty racist term that most people find VERY offensive. If I found a person I was involved with called me his "wog girlfriend" I would not BE his girlfriend from that moment.

So I read another thread on this subject on this site where this came up. The OP had made a big point of saying that WOG was offensive because of it's connection to the word golliwog, a racist children's character. However, I do not agree with this derivation. I've never heard anybody use wog as a reference to people of any ethnicity, either before, during or after my time in the church. Aside from the word "Oriental" being in the name, I don't consider it racist. At best it is a word that sounds like a racist word but does not have the same meaning or intention.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Hi, stick.

I think you should be open with her, to the extent that she is interested. It can be overwhelming to hear about another person's cult experience, and it can make you question their judgment (just as most of us will admit that we have questioned our own judgment for being involved). I've had women who thought it probably messed me up pretty bad, and kept throwing it in my face that this was why I was this way, or that way, or whatever. Those relationships didn't last. Hiding it would be an error, so I would say that the best tactic is to say "I used to be involved with those guys", and tell her what had interested you about it: for me, it was because I wanted to help my family and friends. Then, answer questions honestly, but don't let your explanations spiral into long stories of "the old days", unless that's what she's after. Over time, she may become comfortable with who you are, now, and confident that you are not trying to drag her into that stuff, etc., but at first, don't hit her over the head with EVERYTHING. It's possible to be very honest without giving "time, place, form and event", going "earlier similar", and having a cognition, while she sits there terrified. :)
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Thanks everybody. I've got a lot of thinking to do, but maybe ultimately the thing to do is tell her.



So I read another thread on this subject on this site where this came up. The OP had made a big point of saying that WOG was offensive because of it's connection to the word golliwog, a racist children's character. However, I do not agree with this derivation. I've never heard anybody use wog as a reference to people of any ethnicity, either before, during or after my time in the church. Aside from the word "Oriental" being in the name, I don't consider it racist. At best it is a word that sounds like a racist word but does not have the same meaning or intention.

Hubbard ripped the word off from the UK, where it was used in violent attacks against people who where dark and foreign, usually with many 'f' words and gestures. It was coined first of all by the troops in the Empire, a word used to demonise the natives, before taking their country over. It has hate at it's core and is rarely said these days but when it is it's with racist venom. I couldn't give a toss if you think it's not racist, it is.
 

rhansrider

Patron with Honors
"So I read another thread on this subject on this site where this came up. The OP had made a big point of saying that WOG was offensive because of it's connection to the word golliwog, a racist children's character. However, I do not agree with this derivation. I've never heard anybody use wog as a reference to people of any ethnicity, either before, during or after my time in the church. Aside from the word "Oriental" being in the name, I don't consider it racist. At best it is a word that sounds like a racist word but does not have the same meaning or intention."

Why is it so important for you to use a term that you have been told is offensive?

Also, out in the real world you cannot just make words mean what YOU want against the meaning they have in dictionaries, culture and common speech. That is a cult behaviour, something that Scientology specializes in.

And when you pull the "never heard anybody use wog as a reference to people of any ethnicity" that is the Scientology "what's true for you is true". Again not in the real world.

I am not trying to beat on you, but this is an area of behaviour you might look at as it could cause you problems out of the cult.
 

StickbyMe

Patron with Honors
"So I read another thread on this subject on this site where this came up. The OP had made a big point of saying that WOG was offensive because of it's connection to the word golliwog, a racist children's character. However, I do not agree with this derivation. I've never heard anybody use wog as a reference to people of any ethnicity, either before, during or after my time in the church. Aside from the word "Oriental" being in the name, I don't consider it racist. At best it is a word that sounds like a racist word but does not have the same meaning or intention."

Why is it so important for you to use a term that you have been told is offensive?

Also, out in the real world you cannot just make words mean what YOU want against the meaning they have in dictionaries, culture and common speech. That is a cult behaviour, something that Scientology specializes in.

And when you pull the "never heard anybody use wog as a reference to people of any ethnicity" that is the Scientology "what's true for you is true". Again not in the real world.

I am not trying to beat on you, but this is an area of behaviour you might look at as it could cause you problems out of the cult.
It's not that important, I just don't think it's offensive.

Who is it offensive to? It may have been racist once, but in America in the year 2012, it is not an active racial slur. Two minutes of Internet research shows that the history of the word is not completely known, with Golliwog being only one of several possible origins. Does the word offend you? Is it as bad as the n word?

In addition, Australians use the word as a non-offensive term for Greek immigrants.

Words don't mean just what I want, but whether or not I'm using the right speech terms is kind of irrelevant. I already spent half a decade working for people who obsessed about the definitions of words
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

So I read another thread on this subject on this site where this came up. The OP had made a big point of saying that WOG was offensive because of it's connection to the word golliwog, a racist children's character. However, I do not agree with this derivation. I've never heard anybody use wog as a reference to people of any ethnicity, either before, during or after my time in the church. Aside from the word "Oriental" being in the name, I don't consider it racist. At best it is a word that sounds like a racist word but does not have the same meaning or intention.

In Scientology, it's a reference to all non-Scientogist human beings: human beings who are too dumb or too aberrated to become Scientologists.

Homo Sapiens, "Homo Saps," "Wogs" are all found in Scientology-speak.

At one time, "wog" was even in the 'Tech Dictionary' (still is?) for "garden variety humanoid."

It's a term of condescension, which derives from the days of colonial Britain, referring to people of Asiatic/African Middle Eastern and East Asian/South Asian origin.

Its derivation is not as important as its existence as a demeaning term used by Scientology to describe the inferior non-Scientology humanoids.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I've never encountered any judgmental attitudes in any of my friends or acquaintances and I tell all of 'em "I used to be in a cult". Then, if they ask a bit about what cult was it, I tell them. It's never been a problem.

IMO, one might mainly run into problems from friends if one were still involved with CofS. That would raise eyebrows or even piss some people off. But if it's been there, done that, they wouldn't even give me a tshirt, then most right thinking people are just going to smile and say "interesting."

The nearest to a negative comment I ever got was from a friend. She was all like, "Aliens, are you freaking kidding me? Why did you even bother?" I muttered something about cool Buddhist ideas and similarity and was looking for something yadda yadda. And she said "So do Buddhism!". However, all of this was said with smiles all round and felt more like good natured ribbing from a friend. I never felt bad about talking to her about it.

I just think that if a person who has various things in their past tells their friends about it, that true friends will just be happy for you that you're out.

You know, it's a bit like being an ex junkie. A friend would be happy for someone if they said "I used to be on drugs and I got clean." (and I'm not the first person to make the Scn/addiction comparison)
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Different when it's a lover, Claire.

Then they want to know if you are damaged, why you were a sucker for a cult, if you are a danger to your prospective kids with them, etc. The people I dated, though, were mostly psych professionals, and highly aware of the damage cults do to people, and how difficult it is, particularly for former scientologists, who have been mindfucked for years and made paranoid about "psychs".
 

Veda

Sponsor
StickbyMe, the main thing is never to shout out "L. Ron!!!!" while making love. Other than that, you should be OK.

Here's Hubbard explaining that during World War II he was repeatedly asked to work on the Manhattan Project (the secret project building the atomic bomb), and each time refused, and each time was sent into a combat theater as punishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1-6I-d4jK0

Just thought I'd toss it in.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
"So I read another thread on this subject on this site where this came up. The OP had made a big point of saying that WOG was offensive because of it's connection to the word golliwog, a racist children's character. However, I do not agree with this derivation. I've never heard anybody use wog as a reference to people of any ethnicity, either before, during or after my time in the church. Aside from the word "Oriental" being in the name, I don't consider it racist. At best it is a word that sounds like a racist word but does not have the same meaning or intention."

Why is it so important for you to use a term that you have been told is offensive?

Also, out in the real world you cannot just make words mean what YOU want against the meaning they have in dictionaries, culture and common speech. That is a cult behaviour, something that Scientology specializes in.

And when you pull the "never heard anybody use wog as a reference to people of any ethnicity" that is the Scientology "what's true for you is true". Again not in the real world.

I am not trying to beat on you, but this is an area of behaviour you might look at as it could cause you problems out of the cult.

You are either wonderfully young or not from Great Britain. In the UK we hardly ever heard the 'N' word, but I wouldn't use it on a dark night after a riot in Brixton, and I certainly wouldn't use it in Detroit or New Orleans. Believe me it is offensive. In America you could shout 'Bollocks' loudly outside a nunnery and no one would be offended, it doesn't stop it from meaning testicles, it just means that the definition is not known, those of us that do know the meaning of 'wog' find it truly offensive and did even when it came out Hubbard's lips.

Hubbard was in the UK where he picked up the word. It's similar to demonised words used by American forces before shooting Viet Con, or Gooks etc, it means non humans I can shoot without any guilt, sub humans, ha ha ha I hit one.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
I've never encountered any judgmental attitudes in any of my friends or acquaintances and I tell all of 'em "I used to be in a cult". Then, if they ask a bit about what cult was it, I tell them. It's never been a problem.

IMO, one might mainly run into problems from friends if one were still involved with CofS. That would raise eyebrows or even piss some people off. But if it's been there, done that, they wouldn't even give me a tshirt, then most right thinking people are just going to smile and say "interesting."

The nearest to a negative comment I ever got was from a friend. She was all like, "Aliens, are you freaking kidding me? Why did you even bother?" I muttered something about cool Buddhist ideas and similarity and was looking for something yadda yadda. And she said "So do Buddhism!". However, all of this was said with smiles all round and felt more like good natured ribbing from a friend. I never felt bad about talking to her about it.

I just think that if a person who has various things in their past tells their friends about it, that true friends will just be happy for you that you're out.

You know, it's a bit like being an ex junkie. A friend would be happy for someone if they said "I used to be on drugs and I got clean." (and I'm not the first person to make the Scn/addiction comparison)


If you don't have any difficulty with something and don't try to hide then people don't worry about it. Clinton could have said, ''yes she gave me a quick blow job, it was stupid of me and I regret the weakness'' it would have been forgotten, but he had to say ''no, I did not have sex with that woman'' that was the mistake.

Saying that, I told a friend recently that I had been a scientologist, and was out of it, this guy had been an alcoholic and runs AA meetings, he looked at me sideways, as if to say, mmmm have to watch this one.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I guess it differs from person to person, but IMO, so many people in this world have done odd things previously in life that, if other people can't deal with it, then they are not living in the real world.

I'll tell you when I did run into some attitude, though, and that's when I was in CofS. I did meet some people who went from friendly to brr! Freezing! once I told them.

But, in life, there're always some people who are more or less judgmental than others. That's really what it comes down to.
 
StickbyMe, the main thing is never to shout out "L. Ron!!!!" while making love. Other than that, you should be OK.

Here's Hubbard explaining that during World War II he was repeatedly asked to work on the Manhattan Project (the secret project building the atomic bomb), and each time refused, and each time was sent into a combat theater as punishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1-6I-d4jK0

Just thought I'd toss it in.

I'm guessing that during sex L. Ron Hubbard would call out his own name.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
In Scientology, it's a reference to all non-Scientogist human beings: human beings who are too dumb or too aberrated to become Scientologists.

Homo Sapiens, "Homo Saps," "Wogs" are all found in Scientology-speak.

At one time, "wog" was even in the 'Tech Dictionary' (still is?) for "garden variety humanoid."

It's a term of condescension, which derives from the days of colonial Britain, referring to people of Asiatic/African Middle Eastern and East Asian/South Asian origin.

Its derivation is not as important as its existence as a demeaning term used by Scientology to describe the inferior non-Scientology humanoids.

I thought it supposedly was an acronym "Worthy Oriental gentleman" which would make it racist in a condescending white man's burden'ish sort of way.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Well, I think that in this day & age it is probably most likely that people who were never a scientologist when told someone used to be a scientologist are, er, not very impressed at all with that "stat".

Might be more of a may I offer my condolences for wasting part of your life.

I think if someone ( that didn't know I'd been one, too ) were to up & tell me they had been a scientologist I'd try to sell 'em the Brooklyn Bridge.

Wouldn't you ?
 
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