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Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Uhm... I thought Albert just told you the answer: a fat older guy. Is there more than one Mike Ellis?

Not to be too sceptical, but, I don't know Albert :) Or, if there is more than one Mike Ellis.

I'm thinking back to earlier discussions as to the Ellis family etc. and just recognizing conflicting data.

Anyway, either there will be confirmation, one way ot the other, or there won't, and, I'm not in a huge rush.

Zinj
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
Not to be too sceptical, but, I don't know Albert :) Or, if there is more than one Mike Ellis.

I'm thinking back to earlier discussions as to the Ellis family etc. and just recognizing conflicting data.

Anyway, either there will be confirmation, one way ot the other, or there won't, and, I'm not in a huge rush.

Zinj

It seems much more likely that it is the older fat guy Mike Ellis that Albert knows than the hypothetical Ellis whose first name we don't know and who was in ANZO a long ago.

Albert, if you can provide any further data as to where he was posted when you knew him, that would probably settle the matter.

V
 

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
I feel that adhering to Hubbard's rules for how to behave as an "SP" is a violation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the religious clauses, because I am no longer a Scientologists, and I don't agree to ANY of the Scientology rules against "SPs" and I don't feel obliged to DO any of Hubbard's Scientology religious practices, since I do NOT believe in the religion of Scientology, nor its administrative procedures for dealing with "SPs."

That said, I wrote and asked for my SP declare, and received NO answer.

I think the IJC is NOT being monitored for his backlogged comm.

I worked in Senior HCO Int from 1983 till 1987 and IJC backlogged comm was legion! It is just a given for that post, there is SO MUCH comm to that post.

If CMO IXU is not breathing down IJC's neck on his backlogged comm, I imagine he was so backlogged, he didn't even bother to look up your comm the first several times, and just did a default "please repeat your request" letter as a handling for him not having his Communicator even bother to dig up your file to answer you.

There must be just an immense number of files in the IJC's office, probably another 10 to 20 thousand "SPs" in the last 20 years since I left.

In 1993, when I was the computer person at ASI, I would get the weekly updated "SP" and "Ex Sea Org" list, and the ex Sea Org list was something like 26 or 29 THOUSAND ex Sea Org members, and that was 13 years ago.

I imagine the ex Sea Org list is running at about 35 thousand ex Sea Org members.

That makes sense per the policy, since it is a 1 to 5 ratio, 1 stays for every 5 that leaves staff per the recruitment ratio longrange.

With the Sea Org at 5 to 7 thousand approximately today, and roughly 35,000 who are OUT of the Sea Org I estimate, that fits the LRH acceptable recruit to staff ratio over time!

It is amazing that the movement even survives as well as it does. The "dupe" mindset isn't easy to get over!

I wonder if blownforgood has seen the ex Sea Org list in recent years?

anyways, IJC will always be swamped, there are just too damn many "SPs" for him to keep up with all the traffic!

Even in 1984-1987, only the "flaps" were what IJC concentrated on! He could simply NOT keep up with all the traffic to the "SPs."
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hi Chuck,

Per my data, which is very recent, there are 6,500 SO members worldwide. The number of recruits could be up to 500 per year (meaning those who sign the SO contract whether they ever arrive or not, although my personal guess would be its closer to 250. I didn't have much to do with recruitment lines and don't know the actual stats.). Probably 100 of them stay for any length of time. Based on these estimates, I would say your guess that there is 35,000 ex-SO is pretty accurate.

With some 55,000 active Scientologists, it won't be too long until there will be more ex-SO in the world than active Scientologists.

Would that be the "break" part of the make-or-break point?
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi Chuck,

Per my data, which is very recent, there are 6,500 SO members worldwide. The number of recruits could be up to 500 per year (meaning those who sign the SO contract whether they ever arrive or not, although my personal guess would be its closer to 250. I didn't have much to do with recruitment lines and don't know the actual stats.). Probably 100 of them stay for any length of time. Based on these estimates, I would say your guess that there is 35,000 ex-SO is pretty accurate.

With some 55,000 active Scientologists, it won't be too long until there will be more ex-SO in the world than active Scientologists.

Would that be the "break" part of the make-or-break point?

If you include the ex-Mission and ex-Org staff, plus ex-public that did major courses - the numbers out would greatly exceed the numbers in.

When you also realize - in destroying the Mission and Field Auditor network in 1982 - you destroyed the major source of the masters of ARC break handling of the public.

Thus the amount of upset with Scio people is in the 100,000s - at least 500,000 - just my network of ex-staff and ex-students exceeds 250,000.

This amounts to an incredible counter-force to the future of Scio.

Too make matters worse the SO recruitment is composed mainly of completely unhatted new people.

It is an incredible mess of long-term lousy destructive idiotic leadership.

Alan
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
If you include the ex-Mission and ex-Org staff, plus ex-public that did major courses - the numbers out would greatly exceed the numbers in.

When you also realize - in destroying the Mission and Field Auditor network in 1982 - you destroyed the major source of the masters of ARC break handling of the public.

Thus the amount of upset with Scio people is in the 100,000s - at least 500,000 - just my network of ex-staff and ex-students exceeds 250,000.

This amounts to an incredible counter-force to the future of Scio.

Too make matters worse the SO recruitment is composed mainly of completely unhatted new people.

It is an incredible mess of long-term lousy destructive idiotic leadership.

Alan

Hi Alan,

It would indeed be interesting to get an accurate estimate of the number of active non-church Scientologists. I'm getting the idea the situation is soon totally outside the control of the orthodoxy.

(And by active Scientologist, I of course meant active CoDM Scientologists in my earlier message)

As to ex-Scientologists I've heard various figures up to 9,000,000. As the church claims to have 8,000,000 adherents (the figure has stayed the same for 20 years now -- how's that considered expansion? Oh yes, it's a "straight-up affluence" since 1950, when there was only one. Sorry, forgot, haven't seen any events lately.) and that's a figure of people they have at some point counted as Scientologists, we know it is at least 8,000,000.

The ex-SO to active Scientologists comparison was just "whatever." If you exclude current SO and staff from the 55,000 figure -- hold on a second, what I am saying? There are 40,000 IAS members, I must have included some non-church Scientologists in that figure! Okay, so if you take out the SO and staff, that comprise about half of it, the Church is already way below the break point.

Soon I'll be able to compare the number of active CoDM Scientologists to the number of people in my apartment.
 

jennifer

Patron
Scientology a bureaucracy

I found when working in Scientology & even today that it is an established bureaucracy having a central administration with dominating officials. The bureaucracy of Scientology is full of red tape requiring having rigid controls over the churches & franchises around the world keeping staff members in their places or posts. It has a big brother purpose always looking out for what threatens the religion never seeing how the religion itself as a bureaucracy is a threat to its own members. The policies of Scientology are its political purpose policed by its ethics police. In more simple terms Scientology is a control freak requiring controlling the lives & purpose of its members. This shows a tendency to be paranoiac in safeguarding the grand illusion of its purpose of world salvation. As with all bureaucracies despite all their laws & regulations & policies they are an administrative confusion never having their civil servants ever doing their posts properly always overwhelmed by the excessive red tape that underlines their positions. Always looking out for enemies that can threaten their survival not ever understanding that by their bureaucratic tendencies they continue being the enemy. The reason I personally would not like Scientology to become in a position of power as it has inherrantly been established is that it can easily become a greater oppressive totalatarian bureaucracy. As with civil servants in a bureaucracy the continual turnover of staff & members in Scientology is how it expects their staff & members to give total loyalty, obedience & service to its bureaucracy without giving the same loyalty & service to its staff & members.
 

ml99

Patron
Mike Ellis from 9 December 2008 in Los Angeles:
47727553114a5b5d05efb.jpg
 
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Div6

Crusader
I found when working in Scientology & even today that it is an established bureaucracy having a central administration with dominating officials. The bureaucracy of Scientology is full of red tape requiring having rigid controls over the churches & franchises around the world keeping staff members in their places or posts. It has a big brother purpose always looking out for what threatens the religion never seeing how the religion itself as a bureaucracy is a threat to its own members. The policies of Scientology are its political purpose policed by its ethics police. In more simple terms Scientology is a control freak requiring controlling the lives & purpose of its members. This shows a tendency to be paranoiac in safeguarding the grand illusion of its purpose of world salvation. As with all bureaucracies despite all their laws & regulations & policies they are an administrative confusion never having their civil servants ever doing their posts properly always overwhelmed by the excessive red tape that underlines their positions. Always looking out for enemies that can threaten their survival not ever understanding that by their bureaucratic tendencies they continue being the enemy. The reason I personally would not like Scientology to become in a position of power as it has inherrantly been established is that it can easily become a greater oppressive totalatarian bureaucracy. As with civil servants in a bureaucracy the continual turnover of staff & members in Scientology is how it expects their staff & members to give total loyalty, obedience & service to its bureaucracy without giving the same loyalty & service to its staff & members.

I completely agree with this. ^____________^


:iagree:
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
I flicked through a few of these pics... amazing, there is not one person even coming close to smiling (if you find one, let me know... it must be very bad in to look as unhappy as these people)

Well, it's true... these poor people do not look like happy campers.

No doubt, a few years back, these folks were smiling.... feeling all spacey after a few potent therapy sessions.... all those endorphins racing through their system.


Now years later... It's pretty sad. All these decent folks putting forth their good efforts to a cause that they would laugh at if they the half of what's really going on.... :nervous:
 

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
Well, it's true... these poor people do not look like happy campers.

No doubt, a few years back, these folks were smiling.... feeling all spacey after a few potent therapy sessions.... all those endorphins racing through their system.


Now years later... It's pretty sad. All these decent folks putting forth their good efforts to a cause that they would laugh at if they the half of what's really going on.... :nervous:

If only they could reread their success stories from a few years back, and wonder about how it all went wrong. Where did all their wins go. That's the problem with writing success stories when those endorphins are still kicking in. It never seems to last. Then several years later you find yourself on the internet. Perhaps on a message board not dissimilar to this one, reading about pro-techies saying that the tech works. No, endorphins work. Perhaps I should have put that in my success stories. These endorphins really work! Thank you Ron. Your my favourite drug dealer yet!

Neo
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Even Gonzo at Gold looks unhappy - seldom saw him not smiling. Even when he bogged as a student he could still show his pearly whites.
 
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