Are There Real OT Abilities to Be Gained In Scientology?

[Commander Birdsong]

You don't consider the Grade Chart a promise of results? You don't consider the Abilities Gained to be promises of what you would have when you completed that level? You didn't read the "Clear" chapter in Dianetics? You never read Hubbard's definition of OT? You weren't a typical recruit where they "found your ruin" and then said the magic words "Scientology can handle that"? You never listened to any of Hubbard's lectures about all the "miracles" that Scientology could and was (according to him) producing?

Amazing. You may be the only person who was in Scientology who bypassed all Hubbard's claims and promises.

Bill

i have never seen the word promise published on a grade chart

and yes, i was very different from a typical recruit. i was mildly put off by the sales pitch but i examined some basic materials and then spent two days at the san francisco public library using the stacks and the readers guide to periodical literature to read everything could find back to 1953

then i signed on for the $15 HAS Course...

and the rest is history except for the parts that are hallucination

 

[Commander Birdsong]

You don't consider the Grade Chart a promise of results? You don't consider the Abilities Gained to be promises of what you would have when you completed that level? You didn't read the "Clear" chapter in Dianetics? You never read Hubbard's definition of OT? You weren't a typical recruit where they "found your ruin" and then said the magic words "Scientology can handle that"? You never listened to any of Hubbard's lectures about all the "miracles" that Scientology could and was (according to him) producing?

Amazing. You may be the only person who was in Scientology who bypassed all Hubbard's claims and promises.

Bill

i have never seen the word promise published on a grade chart

and yes...

i was different than a typical recruit. i was mildly put off by the sales pitch but i examined some basic materials and then spent two days at the san francisco public library using the stacks and the readers guide to peridical literature to read everything i could find back to 1953. then i signed on for the $15 HAS Course and the rest is history except for the part that is hallucination

 

[Bill]

i have never seen the word promise published on a grade chart

Ah, well, that explains it. Here I was thinking that promises didn't have to include the word "promise". Thanks for explaining that to me. Now I know that promises must always include the word "promise" or they aren't "real" promises.

Bill

 

[Gib]

i have never seen the word promise published on a grade chart

and yes...

i was different than a typical recruit. i was mildly put off by the sales pitch but i examined some basic materials and then spent two days at the san francisco public library using the stacks and the readers guide to peridical literature to read everything i could find back to 1953. then i signed on for the $15 HAS Course and the rest is history except for the part that is hallucination

true dat, there is no promise made,

but one could say implied. but nevertheless, people attest to these levels and grade chart actions. The only thing one can be upbraided for is no results, per hubbard KSW. (but some folks got some results, maybe not the full result, but yet attested to the level or grade chart action)

And here we are arguing over it. Of course, in the confines of the church, one can't argue about it, only hard sold to do the next level.

but here we are arguing about it, that is results from doing the tech of scientology to increase abilities and make the able more able.

my experience is that I finished the grade 0 auditing, all the questions, and at the time I felt pretty good. I felt I could talk to anybody about anything, but I wasn't quite sure. So the folks asked me to attest, and I said no, I wasn't completely sure. Because I was on staff, my auditing cycle gotten forgotten about. About four years later, me being a public, I was once again asked to attest to Grade 0 so I could move up the bridge. S0 I did, as I wanted to continue.

Funny, as I look back, why couldn't the C/S ask me if I wanted to get more Grade 0 auditing?

Anyways, can I talk to anybody about anything, no. I don't think it's possible for anybody to have that EP of the grade. My OT8 wife can't talk to me about everything or anything, namely scientology, as I tried to talk to her about my doubts about it, and she flew off the handle.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

true dat, there is no promise made,

but one could say implied. but nevertheless, people attest to these levels and grade chart actions. The only thing one can be upbraided for is no results, per hubbard KSW. (but some folks got some results, maybe not the full result, but yet attested to the level or grade chart action)

And here we are arguing over it. Of course, in the confines of the church, one can't argue about it, only hard sold to do the next level.

but here we are arguing about it, that is results from doing the tech of scientology to increase abilities and make the able more able.

my experience is that I finished the grade 0 auditing, all the questions, and at the time I felt pretty good. I felt I could talk to anybody about anything, but I wasn't quite sure. So the folks asked me to attest, and I said no, I wasn't completely sure. Because I was on staff, my auditing cycle gotten forgotten about. About four years later, me being a public, I was once again asked to attest to Grade 0 so I could move up the bridge. S0 I did, as I wanted to continue.

Funny, as I look back, why couldn't the C/S ask me if I wanted to get more Grade 0 auditing?

Anyways, can I talk to anybody about anything, no. I don't think it's possible for anybody to have that EP of the grade. My OT8 wife can't talk to me about everything or anything, namely scientology, as I tried to talk to her about my doubts about it, and she flew off the handle.

ah yes...

there is a wife smiley isn't there

i just looked at all the hype, and what was implied etc. as "promise her anything but give her arpege" sort of stuff. i found some "arpege" in it because i can find arpegingness in myself. and basically people who don't find some arpege there aren't finding it within themselves or at least not in those terms

 

[Bill]

true dat, there is no promise made,

I don't see that. Including an attribute in the description of what you are selling is a promise that what you are selling includes that attribute.

If a car dealer includes "power windows" in the description of a car, you do expect the car to have power windows -- even if the dealer didn't actually use the exact word "promise" in the ad. If it doesn't have them, and you complain, does the dealer say "I never promised power windows"?

Dianetics includes a description of "Clear". Scientology sells "Clear". Nowhere has Scientology repudiated that definition of "Clear". When selling Scientology they often refer to the Dianetics book as a good beginning book.

Hubbard has defined "OT" a million times in glowing terms. Nowhere has he or Scientology ever repudiated the definition of "OT" and said "We don't actually deliver that".

The Grade Chart which gives the standard descriptions of the grades, etc. and which includes many "miraculous" Abilities Gained, is used to SELL Scientology. Those "miraculous" Abilities Gained are part of the description of what Scientology is selling.

Who would say "Hmmm, it says 'green' but it doesn't include the word 'promise'. I wonder what color it will actually be?"

No, you expect to receive what was described. Power windows and all. Abilities Gained and all.

Even if no one used the exact word "promise".

Bill

 

[Sidney18511]

Bill...I love reading your posts. You are wicked smart in explaining the con that is Scientology.
it seems you are explaining the TRUTH to people that don't want or need it. In their bubble, they don't "hear" what you are saying because they don't want to, but I give you props for trying.
Dont give up. There could be someone lurking to whom what you are saying is making sense, in fact you might of already popped a few bubbles.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

AMEN to that!

On with the discussion!

 

[Lermanet_com]

Whenever $cientology's claims are discussed, I always find it useful to carefully re-read Black's Law dictionary definition of FRAUD

From Blacks Law Dictionary:

Fraud: An intentional perversion of the truth for the purpose of inducing another in reliance upon it to part with some valuable thing or to surrender a legal right; a false representation of a matter of fact, whether by words ot conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of that which should have been disclosed, which deceives and is intended to deceive another so that he shall act upon it to his legal inquiry; anything calculated to deceive, whether by a single act or combination, or by suppression of truth, or suggestion of what is false, whether it be by direct falsehood or innuendo, by speech or silence, word of mouth, or look or gesture; fraud comprises all acts, omissions, and concealments involving a branch of legal or equitable duty and resulting in damage to another.


ahh, yes, much better... any wonder why re-reading this definition is so helpful for understanding $cientology?

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Bump for the Newbies!

 

[programmer_guy]

Bump for the Newbies!

It's interesting to return to this topic.

I have come to suspect that there is something to what some have reported (something like OT stuff).
It's NOT that anything OT really exists but a few had experienced something(s).

I now suspect that it is something similar to what some schizophrenics experience in their own mind.
And Hubbard et. al. could never create the means for every PC to experience these things.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

It's interesting to return to this topic.

I have come to suspect that there is something to what some have reported (something like OT stuff).
It's NOT that anything OT really exists but a few had experienced something(s).

I now suspect that it is something similar to what some schizophrenics experience in their own mind.
And Hubbard et. al. could never create the means for every PC to experience these things.

i've no idea what ultimate capacities there may be but my own life has been imbued with a magickal "OT" psychedlic, charismatic whatever you want to call it, turn the wheel of dharma whatever since childhood and a study of the lrh/csi imprimatur is one of several things which have enhanced it

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

There are psychic "abilities" all over the place. I was doing stuff when I was 5 years old, so was most everyone else. Hubbard thing's "OT" was a devised way to disguise it as something else only he knew about. What an arse.

I agree lots of abilities beyond the normal range, but what we're realy talking is "Power" or "Super Powerz" by doing
Scientology hope you like beans and rice and have a billion years ya aint doing anything with
matey.


Hubbardism says condition of power and formula is "don't disconnect" and he is Source and tech is Source
I have no doubt Scio's loved the movie Matrix when it came out saw themselves the Zionist saving the enslaved
humans turned into Duracell batterys to power the Evil machine world of artificial inteligence.

Flip that on its head and consider for a moment Scientology is the enslaver and has made you into a
Duracell battery flowing your time and money and life and in return you get to play Neo or New Man homo novis
in your head

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Bump for the New Year!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Easter Bump for our Newbies and Lurkers!

 

[ThetanExterior]

In answer to the OP, see my sig.

 

[looker]

Here, for your entertainment, is a story I told back in 2008.

Many are attracted to the idea of achieving OT Powerzzz and think that they'll end up as some kind of para-normal, Genie-like Being (sort of like Samantha from Bewitched or the characters in I Dream Of Jeannie!!!).

It's a honey-pot that's used knowingly by Registrars and FSMs to close prospects.

I never bought it nor sought it and here's why;

In my first year as a scn'ist (many years ago now) I had occasion to visit those fine SO folk at FOLO ANZO when it was situated at Dick Street, Henley.

After parking my car I noticed three SO members struggling to put a new tyre onto a motorcycle rim. All three of them were well known ANZO SO members and OTIII or above. They were hot, sweaty, frustrated, muttering about aligning their postulates and getting nowhere.

I asked if they'd like me to help. One glared at me, one told me to "Piss off" and the other said, "No, thanks".

I went inside to do my business with FOLO. I came out 30 minutes later and there they were; hotter, sweatier and even more frustrated.

I decided to try again and asked, "Would you like some help with that?"

One glared at me, one told me to "Piss off" and the other one, Norman Herring, asked, "Do you know how to do this?"
When I answered in the affirmative they all stepped back and looked at me expectantly.

I went back into the Dick Street house, got some water and dish-washing liquid from the kitchen, wiped it on the rim and tyre and single-handedly popped it on in 30 seconds.

One said, "Fuck me!", one said, "Piss off!" and Norman Herring said, "Thank you!"

I thought it all through as I drove home and came to the correct conclusion. It saved me from getting hot, sweaty and frustrated as I progressed in scn.

The original post and thread about OT Powerzz is here http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=8054&page=2

Yep, My Dad told me about soap sudz being a tire lube when I was a 10 year old. Funny but they aint much to being OT.

I still am befutzed by LRH giving the navigation to a lady (I ferget her name) as the Captain of the Royal Scottman. His belief at the time was we as Thetans had done everything and knew everything so a Raw recruit as Captain was; Buck up and do it. Amazing they never grounded or collided with other ships. They couldn't do that theses days, too much traffic and a marine GPS is mandatory.

 

[looker]

I can melt Ice cubes with my OT abilities It only takes a minute or two.

 

[looker]

I can also use my OT abilities to find a parking spot within walking distance

 

[ThetanExterior]

Yep, My Dad told me about soap sudz being a tire lube when I was a 10 year old. Funny but they aint much to being OT.

I still am befutzed by LRH giving the navigation to a lady (I ferget her name) as the Captain of the Royal Scottman. His belief at the time was we as Thetans had done everything and knew everything so a Raw recruit as Captain was; Buck up and do it. Amazing they never grounded or collided with other ships. They couldn't do that theses days, too much traffic and a marine GPS is mandatory.

Hana Eltringham Whitfield:

https://scientology101.org/scientology-secrets/l-ron-hubbard/290-2/