Another forced disconnection

[Free to shine]

I knew when I started reading critic sites again and more importantly - posting - that there was a very high probability that a family member currently on lines would be faced with the disconnection decision.

Well it happened tonight. I had a phone call that started with a sort of scripted list of questions, supposedly from her, about who I was "talking to" and had I passed it on to other people etc. I didn’t bite and explained I was talking to fellow travellers.

During a few phone calls in the last month, I had tried to gently indicate, in a roundabout way, that I was not necessarily still on that side of the fence. (Hadn't been for decades actually, but I had maintained the pretence for her sake, and really she knew, it was just never spoken about.) Well we tippy toed around plain talking, but obviously as I planted a few seeds, they sprouted. And she is doing Eligibility... well....

I had prepared myself, I thought, but it was still an awful shock to hear "I won't be phoning anymore" (and obviously no Xmas gathering!). I know it was hard for her to say, and I didn't make it easy, though not argumentative. I don't think she understands I know exactly what was happening at the other end of the phone!

I have NEVER told her not to continue her OT levels, or told her I disapproved, or said anything blatantly negative. In fact I said I am totally cool with her finding her own way, and it's true. She had put my ‘disaffection’ down to my 'past bad experiences' of course, I am PTS, my MUs and O/Ws, have a body problem and am not rich and successful blah blah and I have never seriously argued my case.

But there comes a time when you have to be true to yourself, and my time came. Those judgements are not true, and I won’t be patronised anymore.

Now - because I "talk to people who are negative" online, she said if she couldn't persuade me to stop, she is no longer going to be connected to me. As though it was her own idea!

I am SO angry, so sad. I told her that this is NOT my idea, it is NOT her idea and she should look at WHOSE idea it is. I even threw in the line “what religion tells it’s members not to be connected to someone who disagrees?” To give her credit, she paused a bit at that one. Then it was "that's just how it is". Yeah, well, we know the story.

I did realise this was probable and I do also believe that at some point she won't be able to handle the break. I'm not holding my breath, but the absurdity of the whole situation is just beyond words….so effing sad.

How dare 'a religion' rip apart a family like this?
Has anyone else experienced this recently?

 

[Bea Kiddo]

HUGS TO YOU, FREE TO SHINE.

Very sad.

I never had anyone disconnect from me, even though I am declared, goldenrod and all. But I have had people leave out of my life, and I am sorry for you. Hopefully she will come to her senses one day. I did.

(I did disconnect from my dad, I guess. Not formally, but we never talked to him again after my 10th birthday until I just recently found him again).

Big Hugs....

 

[Free to shine]

Thanks Bea, and to Emma too. I still keep having bloody tears dribble down my face.
Yeah, maybe it was the formality of it that hurts. Mind you, I did ask her for it in writing too at the end of the conversation! As if...

 

[Tanstaafl]

FTS - I'm sorry you've had to go through this bullshit.

A few years back when it looked like I'd have to disconnect from a close family member my Mother asked me: "What kind of church splits up families?"
Looking back I can't believe how "reasonable" I was on the Church's stance.
I could see clearly that it made no sense to my mother, but only now can I see that's because it simply doesn't makes sense unless you're running a cult.

It can be tough, but there is nothing more important than your personal integrity. Stick with it and you'll come through shining, though there may be difficult times.

ESMB is a surrogate family for many of us.

Best wishes,

tanstaafl

 

[Free to shine]

It can be tough, but there is nothing more important than your personal integrity. Stick with it and you'll come through shining, though there may be difficult times.

ESMB is a surrogate family for many of us.

Best wishes,

tanstaafl

Thankyou for your support, it does help. If there was no-one to talk to, as happened in the past, I would really be a basket case. Yet if this stuff is hidden, it continues unchecked. So bravo for ESMB!

And for any lurkers reading this - disconnection DOES happen, right here, right now. It isn't something in the past, or only done with declared SPs etc. It happened today because I may POTENTIALLY say something negative. And that is paranoid!

 

[Alanzo]

They tried with me, but of course, I knew that they would.

I knew that Scientologists are synthetic personalities that run on the orders they take in Scientology from L Ron Hubbard, and so I headed them off at the pass. I called my sister and brother in law for weeks and told them about what I was finding on the Internet, including forced abortions and lies Hubbard told, all documented and easily available to them.

So that way, when Mary Ann Ahmad, the Director of Special Affairs at the Chicago Org called and threatened my family, they told her to fuck off!

Hi Mary Ann!!!

Fortunately for me, they were receptive to my information. They never moved to LA or another large city where the Sea Org runs things and people are fanatic. They stayed in the cornfields, where Scientologists are outnumbered by the regular human beings around them and they have to at least appear to acknowledge real life and aren't some kind of Pod People.

So Free To Shine, I am very sorry to hear that this happened to you. And this makes me very fucking angry. I'm really getting sick of this outright suppression.

I've been thinking lately.

What if we all just DISAGREE?

What if we all just IGNORED this insane crap and talked to any family member we wanted to?

What if we just told them all that we loved them and we are here to talk to them whenever they want, and reminded them of this on a weekly basis?

Like at Thursday at 2pm - every week?

Thursday at 2pm becomes Re-Connection Day until this insane and destructive policy of Disconnection disappears from the Church of Scientology forever?

 

[Div6]

Alanzoetics. Pure Love.

I agree. By perpetuating Aristotelian logic (and if you go deeply into the subject
'Xenu' implanted dichotomies) ie: PTS\SP, and not allowing any middle ground, you are creating suffering, mis-undertstanding and betrayal. Yes it is 'cultural', 'linguistic' and 'institutionalized' but that is no reason to continue to agree with its modalities.

It is time to demonstrate forgiveness, nonduality and unconditional love, in spades.

When someone calls to 'disconnect' tell them that you totally understand that they are under pressure, and hope that someday they will be able to extinguish their mental suffering and realize that we all ARE. That you hope they can practice giving and receiving love as a daily occurrence, and humans can evolve institutions and organizations that harmonize and include. Tell them that they have your unconditional love and hope that they can realize at some point that "disconnection" is an illusion as we all share consciousness.

The future can only be better by so doing.

 

[olska]

First, good for you for standing up for your own views and integrity.

Second, not to give you false hope, but it seems to me that if this person did not have some "doubts" of her own, then she wouldn't be at all influenced by your simple decision to go your own way, different from hers. She would simply go on about her business doing her "chosen path" and being mostly unmindful of what you are doing, or not doing, with no need to make an issue of it.

People on different paths often grow apart , but there's no need to make an issue of "formal disconnection" about it -- it's just a natural evolution of people's separate journeys.

I think that simply by taking a stance, being honest, and standing up for yourself, you have got her thinking -- and she can't deal with HER OWN thoughts that are coming up. Give it some time and she may join you on the other side of the madness!

Whatever happens, don't fall into the trap of thinking that this is somehow "your fault" -- no matter how much she is being manipulated in this situation, ultimately the decisions she makes are her own; and imo in this case, she is choosing to be the loser.

 

[duddins]

I've been thinking lately.

What if we all just DISAGREE?

What if we all just IGNORED this insane crap and talked to any family member we wanted to?

What if we just told them all that we loved them and we are here to talk to them whenever they want, and reminded them of this on a weekly basis?

Like at Thursday at 2pm - every week?

Thursday at 2pm becomes Re-Connection Day until this insane and destructive policy of Disconnection disappears from the Church of Scientology forever?

Freetoshine: This is a hard pill to swallow. Im so sorry that this happened. We are here for you.

I like Alanzo's idea......unfortunately in many cases, they won't let you talk to them. But you can try......
Love....

 

[Mick Wenlock]

I knew when I started reading critic sites again and more importantly - posting - that there was a very high probability that a family member currently on lines would be faced with the disconnection decision.

Well it happened tonight. I had a phone call that started with a sort of scripted list of questions, supposedly from her, about who I was "talking to" and had I passed it on to other people etc. I didn’t bite and explained I was talking to fellow travellers.

During a few phone calls in the last month, I had tried to gently indicate, in a roundabout way, that I was not necessarily still on that side of the fence. (Hadn't been for decades actually, but I had maintained the pretence for her sake, and really she knew, it was just never spoken about.) Well we tippy toed around plain talking, but obviously as I planted a few seeds, they sprouted. And she is doing Eligibility... well....

I had prepared myself, I thought, but it was still an awful shock to hear "I won't be phoning anymore" (and obviously no Xmas gathering!). I know it was hard for her to say, and I didn't make it easy, though not argumentative. I don't think she understands I know exactly what was happening at the other end of the phone!

I have NEVER told her not to continue her OT levels, or told her I disapproved, or said anything blatantly negative. In fact I said I am totally cool with her finding her own way, and it's true. She had put my ‘disaffection’ down to my 'past bad experiences' of course, I am PTS, my MUs and O/Ws, have a body problem and am not rich and successful blah blah and I have never seriously argued my case.

But there comes a time when you have to be true to yourself, and my time came. Those judgements are not true, and I won’t be patronised anymore.

Now - because I "talk to people who are negative" online, she said if she couldn't persuade me to stop, she is no longer going to be connected to me. As though it was her own idea!

I am SO angry, so sad. I told her that this is NOT my idea, it is NOT her idea and she should look at WHOSE idea it is. I even threw in the line “what religion tells it’s members not to be connected to someone who disagrees?” To give her credit, she paused a bit at that one. Then it was "that's just how it is". Yeah, well, we know the story.

I did realise this was probable and I do also believe that at some point she won't be able to handle the break. I'm not holding my breath, but the absurdity of the whole situation is just beyond words….so effing sad.

How dare 'a religion' rip apart a family like this?
Has anyone else experienced this recently?

FTS - sorry to hear about this. Just too bitter and amazing for words really. The attempt by Scientology to try and control what YOU do, who YOU can talk to and about what is just astounding. My wife and I went through the same thing with out eldest boy (who is still in).

A piece of advice - FWIW - if it comes up as a point of curiousity with oyjrt family members, take the time to explain it to them. Don't hold back. For the first little while my wife and I tried to "make the best of it" after all we did not want to make family members think less of our son or worse, make them antagonistic to Scientology took us a while to figure out how insane we were being...

You are going to find a lot of friends out here - a lot of people to talk to who know exactly what you are going through. Don't hesitate to talk, post PM or e-mail.

You got friends.

 

[Free to shine]

Thursday at 2pm becomes Re-Connection Day until this insane and destructive policy of Disconnection disappears from the Church of Scientology forever?

To all you lovely people - thanks so much.
Alanzo - you made me laugh! Hey it may be almost 3am here and I can't sleep, but your comment above made the night a lot brighter! Yeah, let's do it!

Div 6 - I hope I did convey the unconditional love. Heck, she knows it. It really is the bottom line, the truth.

Olska - spot on too! I started to take the brakes off during this conversation, when she was asking about what I disagreed with..well I ( calmly and briefly ) mentioned little things like LRH's false history, the current management, the lack of real results (she agreed not everyone gets the gains) and for good measure threw in "have you bought your new basic books yet?" She responded "Oh you know about that?" sounding very surprised. Yes, there are doubts, so fingers crossed. I have rarely heard her lost for words, but there were a few times tonight. I do feel a bit guilty...just a bit. I know there are ripple effects here for others, and I didn't intend that, when I first stood my ground.

Duddins, yeah, I will never give up. Thanks love.

Mick - your heart of granite made me cry again. Hey, it's ok, at least I can. There were so many years I couldn't, it was all so suppressed. Thankyou.

 

[Div6]

ESMB - Reclaiming the RonBots through the Power of Love...

 

[SarahNW]

I am so sorry. Something similar did happen to me, and I still have people calling and disconnecting at random intervals. Every time a friend or loved one calls, I cry and cry and cry, and think I've gotten used to it this time, but of course, I never have.

I think when you say "it's the formality of it", I know what you mean. Suddenly, you're not their friend/family member anymore, you're "someone who needs to be handled". And what's worse, you can remember thinking about others that way, and you feel enraged and hopeless. Yet you know saying "I feel hopeless" will only confirm your supposed tone level, while getting mad about it will just drive them away.

"Choose the church or choose leaving me" is not a choice. It's a medeival (sp?) ultimatum that amounts to nothing less than emotional fratricide. But I don't have to tell you that.

Again, I'm so sorry.

 

[Alanzo]

Some day, the Church of Scientology will really be what we thought it was when we first joined.

Or it will not be around any more.

Either way, it will be a better future for all of us.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Good for you for sticking with your integrity, FTS, despite the downside.

Does anyone have any ideas on how we can handle this scene?

A couple of years ago I thought it would be useful to have a web page where people could fill out a form online giving their real name and a real e-mail address, list the names of the friends/family they had been unwillingly disconnected from, and as the numbers grew it might end up being such a PR problem for the :shark: that it would cause some changes to occur. So I put up the disconnection page and promoted it a little bit and two years later it has five names on it (and their ex-connections) and three additional supporters. Not exactly a roaring success.

My rationale was that having the disconnected parties named, the names would come up in a Google search, thereby increasing the pressure on the :shark: for change.

I still think it is a good idea, but maybe in a different form and hosted by someone else.

Paul

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Some day, the Church of Scientology will really be what we thought it was when we first joined.

Or it will not be around any more.

Either way, it will be a better future for all of us.

actually Alonzo I think ESMB IS what the 'church' of Scientology wishes it was.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Good for you for sticking with your integrity, FTS, despite the downside.

Does anyone have any ideas on how we can handle this scene?

A couple of years ago I thought it would be useful to have a web page where people could fill out a form online giving their real name and a real e-mail address, list the names of the friends/family they had been unwillingly disconnected from, and as the numbers grew it might end up being such a PR problem for the :shark: that it would cause some changes to occur. So I put up the disconnection page and promoted it a little bit and two years later it has five names on it (and their ex-connections) and three additional supporters. Not exactly a roaring success.

My rationale was that having the disconnected parties named, the names would come up in a Google search, thereby increasing the pressure on the :shark: for change.

I still think it is a good idea, but maybe in a different form and hosted by someone else.

Paul

Paul, - it is a warm hearted idea but I don't think it will necessarily work well. One of the reasons being - the whole thing is intensely personal, while I may talk about it on here where most people will understand it, a website is a whole nuther thing.

Disconnection - publicizing it, speaking out about it hasn't worked with all those other cults that do it, I am not sure its going to work in Scientology either.

 

[Alanzo]

Paul, - it is a warm hearted idea but I don't think it will necessarily work well. One of the reasons being - the whole thing is intensely personal, while I may talk about it on here where most people will understand it, a website is a whole nuther thing.

Disconnection - publicizing it, speaking out about it hasn't worked with all those other cults that do it, I am not sure its going to work in Scientology either.

Yea, it is intensely personal.

I realized after I wrote the "Thursday at 2pm ReConnection Day" thing that each person is different and their situation is different for each relationship that is destroyed by Scientology. And one solution will not fit for all.

I do think that generally ignoring disconnection and not acknowledging any power the Church tries to enforce on people is a good idea. But there are definitely exceptions.

Maybe what happens here - where there is the possibility of anonymity - is the best overall solution.

I do think just walking into orgs to tell your friends and family that you love them and that you are always available to talk would be an awesome thing.

HCO Terminal:
"Call the police!!! She is trying to destroy us!!!"


Policeman:
"What did she do?"


HCO Terminal:
"She walked in and told her daughter that she loved her, officer!"​

 

[Div6]

Yea, it is intensely personal.

I realized after I wrote the "Thursday at 2pm ReConnection Day" thing that each person is different and their situation is different for each relationship that is destroyed by Scientology. And one solution will not fit for all.

I do think that generally ignoring disconnection and not acknowledging any power the Church tries to enforce on people is a good idea. But there are definitely exceptions.

Maybe what happens here - where there is the possibility of anonymity - is the best overall solution.

I do think just walking into orgs to tell your friends and family that you love them and that you are always available to talk would be an awesome thing.

HCO Terminal:
"Call the police!!! She is trying to destroy us!!!"


Policeman:
"What did she do?"


HCO Terminal:
"She walked in and told her daughter that she loved her, officer!"​

That is so funny!


Your Honor, I need a Restraining Order.

For what reason?

She randomly gives me hugs and tells me she loves me!

??????

 

[nexus100]

Hi Free,
As I was reading your post I was thinking what Alanzo posted, disagreeing. I would point out disagreement does not have to be an active state. In fact the active, doingness part of this separation is being done by your associate. You can disagree by simply not agreeing. There is no disconnection, there is no separation. The lines are open. If YOURS are open your friend's will also be, or she will have one big hulking wall to lug around, the dropping of which for a moment will bring about-comm.
This is easier said than done. But if you can eliminate any agreement on your part with these goings on you'll have an easier time of it, and will solve it that much sooner.