Hi Everyone

[SweetnessandLight]

Welcome Newbie!

Welcome, Dee Dee! I'm so glad that you and your wife are out, free and posting with us here, welcome to our group!

I'm sure that you will have lots of interesting stories to tell, as well as some valuable information to share with those of us who are trying to put ethics in on "the most ethical group on the planet". Welcome, Welcome!

Yes, Kathy is really Kathy, I think you may find that you already have some old friends and aquaintences here, having been in for so long. I'm sure that you will make some new friends too, with folks who have had very similar experiences to yours, and will understand what you have gone through.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Welcome DontDoVII

I am also sorry that you have family members who are still in.

I did a little tabulation of the OTVIII comps, and yes, the odds are that around 85% of the original 8's never managed to redo the level. So it may well be that 5 in 6 of them are disaffected or at least having major problem redoing. It would be my guess that there must be about 1000 who could speak out and help end the facade! Thank you for speaking out! The more that do the better chance of those that are in will hear it and stop trying to travel the bridge to nowhere.

A note that I put on my tabulation
"So a summary for the years mid 1988 to mid 2007 was a total of 1758 individuals who completed the level either once or twice. I find it of interest that only 159 out of the original 1200 redid the level"

Hello Everyone,

I thought I'd introduce myself and show support for the group.

I was in for over 30 years, a Class IV auditor, all L's and on new OTVII for over 6 years. I have been out for a little over a year, and not necessarily quiet, but quietly removing all ties that could have a negative impact once I started becoming vocal.

My wife is also fully out, as well as my children, who formerly were very active. I have also helped a series of others get out and see the truth.

I wanted to let everyone know that from my local area, it is very interesting to watch the disintegration of the church.Most OT 8 are disaffected , the local Org is empty and the viewpoints of those in are being stratified clearly into two camps: the irrational and those who are "Ex's.

The irrational will go down with the ship. NOTHING will change their minds. They are lost. I'm sorry to say that I have some family members in that camp. Regardless of what proof is shown, if you show them that the sky is blue, they will pull some data that "Ron Says" it is red.

The other camp has no choice to leave, but many times it is a matter of timing. I hate to say how many OT's I know that won't speak out for fear of losing family members that are on staff or have been recruited into the Sea Org. (Just a thought, one thing that hasn't been focused on as much as maybe it should be is focus on the children who get recruited. I've witnessed recruit cycles that threaten parents to a level that is unbelievable).

Anyway, I just wanted to say HI and I'll try to contribute more often here.

Any questions, don't hesitate to let me know.

 

[Lynn Fountain Campbell]

Welcome, DD7!

Lynn

 

[Axiom142]

Welcome to ESMB DD7!

I hope you enjoy visiting our little island of sanity and friendliness. I’m sure you will.

I agree with you that the disintegration is very interesting to watch, but I can’t help wonder what will happen to those who wake up one day and find that their ‘church’ no longer exists and haven’t got a clue about what to do next.

And, I heartily agree with what you said about those who will go down with the ship, no matter what. It is so sad to see people desperately arguing that they are right, when you can see in their eyes that they know they are deluding themselves.

Since you were on OT7, I’m guessing that you know a lot of OTs. What percentage would you say are severely disaffected and either have left, or would leave but for the threat of disconnection?

And, without giving too much away, could you give us some clue as to your general location?

I hope to be hearing more of your story very soon.

Axiom142

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Hello Everyone,

I thought I'd introduce myself and show support for the group.

I was in for over 30 years, a Class IV auditor, all L's and on new OTVII for over 6 years. I have been out for a little over a year, and not necessarily quiet, but quietly removing all ties that could have a negative impact once I started becoming vocal.

My wife is also fully out, as well as my children, who formerly were very active. I have also helped a series of others get out and see the truth.

I wanted to let everyone know that from my local area, it is very interesting to watch the disintegration of the church. Most OT 8 are disaffected, the local Org is empty and the viewpoints of those in are being stratified clearly into two camps: the irrational and those who are "Ex's.

The irrational will go down with the ship. NOTHING will change their minds. They are lost. I'm sorry to say that I have some family members in that camp. Regardless of what proof is shown, if you show them that the sky is blue, they will pull some data that "Ron Says" it is red.

The other camp has no choice to leave, but many times it is a matter of timing. I hate to say how many OT's I know that won't speak out for fear of losing family members that are on staff or have been recruited into the Sea Org. (Just a thought, one thing that hasn't been focused on as much as maybe it should be is focus on the children who get recruited. I've witnessed recruit cycles that threaten parents to a level that is unbelievable).

Anyway, I just wanted to say HI and I'll try to contribute more often here.

Any questions, don't hesitate to let me know.

Welcome to the Wild Side! Which continent are you on.


Mark A. Baker

 

[dontscamme]

DD7!

Glad you and your wife are here.

Please continue to add your voices to the chorus against the abuses and total dysfunction that is the CoS.

 

[byte301]

Welcome to you and the Mrs. Glad you made it over to the dark side.

We're (usually) a friendly bunch of sp's.

 

[Good twin]

Thanks everyone for the welcome.

Hey Kathy, I like your pic. I actually knew her pretty well, but I have to ask, why are you using Mary as your avatar?

Just to clarify. I've audited BOTH of them. This photo is definitely Kathy.

 

[Tim Skog]

Hi and welcome. You must have some good stories from your time in the organization.

 

[HappyGirl]

DD7 - love the nick!!!
It's thrilling to welcome another OT7 to ESMB.

 

[GreyWolf]

 

[DontDoVII]

Please put your witness to use.
The things you have seen need to be seen by others through your eyes.
Many of us were teens or early 20s when recruited.
Now more so, the story of those who were born into Scientology.

My question: What did you see?

Big question. Regarding recruiting, I directly observed kidnapping a few times. Kids taken from the org under false pretenses and basically transported to LA. Also, I had experiences where they were removed to restaurants, etc. without advising or asking parental approval and hammering them for hours and hours, and basically scaring the children into terror with implant data, confidential information etc. My own daughter went through this cycle, and when we stepped in to stop it, were threatened with Sec checks, Non-enturb orders, etc. The specifics are many.

In my area, probably the most disgusting recruiter was Brandon (can't remember his last name). He specifically targeted children, and then threatened the parents. Most every teenager was pushed to join, as that was his stat, and then many ended up leaving. The "few are chosen" is an absolute pile of crap. The actual motto should be "anyone we can threaten or scare that is stupid enough to buy our crap" can come into the SO.

 

[DontDoVII]

The Field?????

He sounds smart enough to stay out of the field.

Thanks for the comment above.

I guess my answer to this would be "show me an OT first." LRH obviously didn't go out through the top. In fact it was one of my decision points on leaving. I really searched all the OT's that I know and couldn't find one that I respected. I know a few, such as Drew Johnson in LA who is a nice guy, but he makes his living on selling the stuff to others. I couldn't find one who was in the real world who was actually more able than before, but I did see many who were more broke than before.

Since leaving, my life has been so much richer than ever. I have plenty of money, I vacation two to three times a year, my family is wonderful and I have more fun and freedom than ever before. Greatest decision I ever took.

 

[DontDoVII]

OT's that are out???

Welcome to ESMB DD7!

I hope you enjoy visiting our little island of sanity and friendliness. I’m sure you will.

I agree with you that the disintegration is very interesting to watch, but I can’t help wonder what will happen to those who wake up one day and find that their ‘church’ no longer exists and haven’t got a clue about what to do next.

And, I heartily agree with what you said about those who will go down with the ship, no matter what. It is so sad to see people desperately arguing that they are right, when you can see in their eyes that they know they are deluding themselves.

Since you were on OT7, I’m guessing that you know a lot of OTs. What percentage would you say are severely disaffected and either have left, or would leave but for the threat of disconnection?

And, without giving too much away, could you give us some clue as to your general location?

I hope to be hearing more of your story very soon.

Axiom142

Hi Axiom,

I do know a bunch. I'm in the West Coast, LA area.

Out of all of my friends and people I know, I'd guess it's somewhere around 80+%. I know about 11 OT VIII's closely, and only 3 are really in. The others see it, but won't speak out. I know a bunch of people who are off VII, and won't go back, and then obviously there are all the others who appear to be scientologists, but really aren't.

I keep urging others to tell the truth about their viewpoint, but the "scary" impact of it is still strong, but getting weaker by the day.

Regarding stories? anything particular of interest???

 

[Good twin]

Oh we love stories. WE want to know everything. How you got in what happened as you went up the bridge. The cracks that you ignored. The red flags you tried to handle. The eventually straw that broke the camels back. The freedom you felt when you let yourself beak free. The appreciation you have for life since leaving. EVERYTHING!!!!

Welcome to the outside.

 

[Woggin' out]

Welcome!!!
And yes tell us all!!

 

[fortymarriedandbalding]

Hi DontDoVII

Welcome. Nice to see you here. I am so happy for you that you got out with your wife and children.


It must be a terrible situation, for those you speak of, to find themselves in – having woken up to the scam but still being too scared to speak out because of the risk of loosing family.

I have to wonder though, if speaking out will cause their family to disconnect with them, haven’t they already lost them? They can not share their stories with them. Can not share their hurts and regrets, their fears and how they are slowly getting their life together and are better off without Scientology. They can not share the truths they have found out about their once much loved religion.

Perhaps speaking out can be their only opportunity to really get them back. There are risks involved – the risk of loosing what contact is left - but the difference they make may eventually lead to a meaningful connection being made in the future.

Do I take the risk to really try and help them and connect with them or do I settle for what I already have and support them in small ways? I thank God that I have never been in the position where I have had to make that decision, and if I was, maybe I would think very differently about it.

 

[Happy Days]

A very big DontDoVII

We look forward to reading your story when you are ready, this board is a great place to be, you are amongst friends..

 

[HappyGirl]

I do know a bunch. I'm in the West Coast, LA area.

Out of all of my friends and people I know, I'd guess it's somewhere around 80+%. I know about 11 OT VIII's closely, and only 3 are really in. The others see it, but won't speak out. I know a bunch of people who are off VII, and won't go back, and then obviously there are all the others who appear to be scientologists, but really aren't.

I keep urging others to tell the truth about their viewpoint, but the "scary" impact of it is still strong, but getting weaker by the day.

Regarding stories? anything particular of interest???

Wow, that was really interesting! I'm gong to PM you.

Oh we love stories. WE want to know everything. How you got in what happened as you went up the bridge. The cracks that you ignored. The red flags you tried to handle. The eventually straw that broke the camels back. The freedom you felt when you let yourself beak free. The appreciation you have for life since leaving. EVERYTHING!!!!

Welcome to the outside.

Yeah! What she well said.

 

[Wirestripper]

.
In my area, probably the most disgusting recruiter was Brandon (can't remember his last name). He specifically targeted children, and then threatened the parents.

Faust. His name was Brandon Faust....formerly top recruiter of BPI, and the M.K. Ranch Royalty family of the same name.

He pulled the same shit on me and mine. May he burn in hell.

I knew going in that it would be bad news....the guy's name was Faust for chrissakes!

-PS....DD7...are you from Northern CA? Bay Area area?