I protest

[Terril park]

The title of this thread I quote is insulting to the forum.

As a freezone scientologist, a fervid supporter and longtime protester
at anon protests against abuse I find this below insulting and demeaning to this forum. I'll just use this one statement for now referring to those who still wish to practice scientology.


"STILL SUPPORTING THE ATROCITIES OF THE CULT"

This is a lie and actually religious bigotry.

I quite rightly was slapped on the wrist by moderator/s for an intemporant post. This below though is a far more dangerous attack on those EX who still wish to follow the precepts of scientology.

I objected to being referred to as a" mental patient". So I made an intemporant post.

So Emma, didn't really want to put you or moderators on the spot. I know its hard, am a moderator.

So here you are.

ML





-----------
Default EX SCIENTOLOGISTS JUST AS FU*CKING WACKED OUT AS SCIENTOLOGISTS
SEE MINUTE: 2:45 LRH GREAT GRANDSON STATING:

A lot of Ex-Scientologists are just as fucking wacked out as Scientologists!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmq9nZnlnNQ


NOTES:

Meaning that those who have left the church but who still believe in the 'tech', that Scientology is a religion and or that Hubbard really wanted to help mankind....

These 'still believers' are STILL IN THE CULT. They are every bit JUST AS FUCKED UP as those still 'IN' in that they both believe that a Science Fiction Writer CREATED A VALID WORTHY RELIGION!!!!! And that a totally untested, unvalidated method of alledged mental therapy IS ACTUALLY SCIENTIFIC!!

Scientologists, Even amongst cults are a singular breed. So called Ex Scientologists that have left the Church, yet to the degree that they remain practicioners and believers, THEY ARE:

STILL IN A CULT

STILL PRACTICE A CULT

STILL UNDER THE EFFECTS AND CONTROL OF A CULT

STILL AS WACKED OUT AS ANY OTHER CULT MEMBER

STILL LEADING OTHERS INTO DANGER

STILL ROBBING OTHERS OF THEIR FREEDOM

STILL MIS LEADING AND MIS GUIDING THE NAIVE

STILL PART OF THE PR MACHINE OF THE CULT

STILL SUPPORTING THE ATROCITIES OF THE CULT

STILL LOST, ILL AND UNDERGOING REHABILITATION

ANYBODY WHO IS LOOKING FOR THE TRUTH CONCERNING SCIENTOLOGY MUST REALIZE THAT WHEN TALKING TO AN ADHERENT OF SCIENTOLOGY...

THAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY TALKING TO A MENTAL PATIENT. IF THE PATIENT ACTUALLY HAS BEGUN TO SEE THE CAUSE OF HIS ILLNESS.... HE IS THEN WORKING THROUGH THE TRAUMAS OF HIS ILLNESS... AND NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH A BONA FIDE EXPERT ON MIND CONTROL ISSUES AND THE SEVERITY OF DAMAGE IT HAS CAUSED HIM AND THAT HE IS STILL LIKELY UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF.

 

[uniquemand]

I agree, Terril. You can certainly protest that a person spoke a certain way, but I think it's healthy to see the attitudes of people who are attempting to paint all exes who have interest in scientology to whatever degree in a bad light. There is reason for concern, though, from the messages I've received from FreeZoners, that the atrocities of the Church will be perpetrated by the FZ, just as soon as they have the infrastructure to do so. Intolerance is rampant amongst FZers, just as it is amongst critics. Many FZers have only left the Church due to personality conflicts or political/organizational troubles with the Church, rather than due to any ethical concerns about scientology abuses or totalitarianism.

How do you feel about "Command Intention"?

 

[Terril park]

I agree, Terril. You can certainly protest that a person spoke a certain way, but I think it's healthy to see the attitudes of people who are attempting to paint all exes who have interest in scientology to whatever degree in a bad light. There is reason for concern, though, from the messages I've received from FreeZoners, that the atrocities of the Church will be perpetrated by the FZ, just as soon as they have the infrastructure to do so. Intolerance is rampant amongst FZers, just as it is amongst critics. Many FZers have only left the Church due to personality conflicts or political/organizational troubles with the Church, rather than due to any ethical concerns about scientology abuses or totalitarianism.

How do you feel about "Command Intention"?

Have to be somewhat circumspect here, " F**k command intention.

Please give data on how the FZ will carry on atrocities.

 

[uniquemand]

Give data? None exists.

It's speculation, based on "true believers". Green on White is LRH Policy. What provisions could the FZ make that they will not operate on Green on White (including whatever confidential issues there are) which would simply recreate the existing Church, although without it's PARTICULAR insanities, it would still project Hubbard's insanities.

 

[Terril park]

Give data? None exists.

It's speculation, based on "true believers". Green on White is LRH Policy. What provisions could the FZ make that they will not operate on Green on White (including whatever confidential issues there are) which would simply recreate the existing Church, although without it's PARTICULAR insanities, it would still project Hubbard's insanities.

Good questions.

Most green on white is good stuff. Simple organisation.

The FZ is not interested in confidential issues.

Screw the insanities. One is looking at enhancement.

 

[Div6]

I agree, Terril. You can certainly protest that a person spoke a certain way, but I think it's healthy to see the attitudes of people who are attempting to paint all exes who have interest in scientology to whatever degree in a bad light. There is reason for concern, though, from the messages I've received from FreeZoners, that the atrocities of the Church will be perpetrated by the FZ, just as soon as they have the infrastructure to do so. Intolerance is rampant amongst FZers, just as it is amongst critics. Many FZers have only left the Church due to personality conflicts or political/organizational troubles with the Church, rather than due to any ethical concerns about scientology abuses or totalitarianism.

How do you feel about "Command Intention"?

I would have to respectfully disagree. While certainly some FZers, Indies, etc fall in to that category, we are witnessing on ESMB, Xenu.net, ExSciKids.com and elsewhere quite a few people assimilating the data that management has hidden from the 'flock', and then speaking out. Some even adding to the list of atrocities committed. Scn. Inc. is run like a partitioned intelligence agency, with "entheta" partitioned off and available only on a 'need to know' basis. That is one reason boards like this are so valuable. A person can, by reading carefully, and ignoring the 'noise' begin to piece together the 'big picture'. And thereby, if they are still so inclined, do a more honest, complete 'doubt formula'.

Remember "hangup at doubt"? Its either 'false data' or 'pts'. For those still in, it is both. For those that are out, just look around. ESMB is in screaming aff.....

 

[KnightVision]

Well now here we finally have the utter truth of the matter!

Screw command intention. etc... We are free zone, we are goodie goodies. trust us. green on white yeah all good stuff.


BULLSHIT.


Want to go around and advertise the same insane crazy cult garbage that the church used on exes, continued to use, will always use, that you FZ'ers use all same. that makes scn all and lrh great and every body else is just some ferked up looser with a reactive mind and full of body cooties. Insane. Completely insane.

Insulted?????

PRACTICING THE CULT ARE YOU?

ONE SHOULD BE INSULTED.

THEY ARE INSULTING.

THEY ARE THEIR OWN EMBARESSEMENNT AND OWN PERSONAL INSULT.

PERIOD.

SCN AND BIGOTS ARE THE ONE WHO WISHES TO STOP SUCH COMM.

FORGET IT DUDE.

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.

SCN IS PRACTICED BY THE INSANE.

If you wish it to be otherwise then start talking specifics. Let you get down to re examining and re defining scientology. And let's also start confronting the sexist and racial bigotry that is LRH YOUR SAVIOR. YOUR MAN OF THE HOUR. YOUR INSANE MONSTROUS CRIMINAL LEADER.

 

[uniquemand]

all FZers the same, LRH evil, all materials useless, KV is right, FZ is evil, a=a=a=a=a=a

 

[KnightVision]

all FZers the same, LRH evil, all materials useless, KV is right, FZ is evil, a=a=a=a=a=a

Did you see this or is it your normal ability to edit what you refuse to deal with:

If you wish it to be otherwise then start talking specifics. Let you get down to re examining and re defining scientology. And let's also start confronting the sexist and racial bigotry that is LRH YOUR SAVIOR. YOUR MAN OF THE HOUR. YOUR INSANE MONSTROUS CRIMINAL LEADER.

 

[uniquemand]

Lol. Start reading people's posts instead of attacking them.

A) LRH is not my savior.

B) He's not my man of the hour

C) He's not my leader.

Your assertions are based on your complete misunderstanding, which at this point seems deliberate.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Give data? None exists.

It's speculation, based on "true believers". Green on White is LRH Policy. What provisions could the FZ make that they will not operate on Green on White (including whatever confidential issues there are) which would simply recreate the existing Church, although without it's PARTICULAR insanities, it would still project Hubbard's insanities.

Most freezoners have little interest in "green on white" and much less interest in "command intention". Some freezoners still maintain an interest in policy "tech" - although this varies by individual as to degree.

A VERY TINY few people who identify with the freezopne also are still rabid SO and consider themselves to be acting on orders per LRH. This latter group has virtually no support from the large majority of the freezone and frequently disrupt public boards in attempts to "make themselves right by making others wrong". One actual disadvantage of being on freezone boards is having to occasionally deal with one of these nuts. Fortunately, they are easily handled. Simply give them a few "unpleasant" facts about LRH and they blow rather than "confront entheta".

"True Believers" are a factor with any human belief system; witness what "freemarket capitalists" have done to the u.s. economy and what "evangelicals" have tried to do to the u.s. constitution. Even ESMB has had its share of "over the top" viewpoints expressed upon occasion.

I shouldn't worry too much about the freezone "morphing" into another mega-cult. Most of us simply aren't interested in creating a religious institution. "Do what you want" tends to be the operating rule among freezoners. The freezone simply exists as a broadly-based community for individuals interested in preserving the tech of scientology auditing for themselves and others.


Mark A. Baker

 

[uniquemand]

It is the nutcases which give the FZ a bad name. I hold Terril in respect, as well as yourself, as you exchange your viewpoints rather freely. It is the FZs toleration of the nutcase totalitarians which I'm concerned with. The problem, it appears to me, is that the nutcases are "on Hubbard's side", and this makes it very hard for FZers to figure out what to do about them, because FZers also want to appear to be on "Hubbard's side", because they are trying to MARKET THEIR RELIGION, and denial of the Founder is an untenable position.

This is why the FZ should go back to the drawing boards, and ADMIT this is what they are doing, instead of claiming they are "Standard Tech", which is the biggest illusion there ever was. It's waved around like a flag, to make people think there is a brand there, when really, each FZer practices his own "brand" based on his own understanding of what Scientology could or should be. If they did this honestly (a la "The Pilot"), I'd have NO PROBLEM with that. But to pretend otherwise smacks of the Church's deceptive practices, based on Hubbard's writings.

 

[KnightVision]

Lol. Start reading people's posts instead of attacking them.

A) LRH is not my savior.

B) He's not my man of the hour

C) He's not my leader.

Your assertions are based on your complete misunderstanding, which at this point seems deliberate.

If you wish it to be otherwise then start talking specifics. Let you get down to re examining and re defining scientology. And let's also start confronting the sexist and racial bigotry that is LRH YOUR SAVIOR. YOUR MAN OF THE HOUR. YOUR INSANE MONSTROUS CRIMINAL LEADER.

 

[uniquemand]

Whatever, robot.

The answers have all been given in the past, you've decided not to see them, or disagree with them, but I'm not your bitch. Either read the answers, or stop demanding them.

http://www.fzaoint.net/reformer.html

 

[KnightVision]

It is the nutcases which give the FZ a bad name. I hold Terril in respect, as well as yourself, as you exchange your viewpoints rather freely. It is the FZs toleration of the nutcase totalitarians which I'm concerned with. The problem, it appears to me, is that the nutcases are "on Hubbard's side", and this makes it very hard for FZers to figure out what to do about them, because FZers also want to appear to be on "Hubbard's side", because they are trying to MARKET THEIR RELIGION, and denial of the Founder is an untenable position.

This is why the FZ should go back to the drawing boards, and ADMIT this is what they are doing, instead of claiming they are "Standard Tech", which is the biggest illusion there ever was. It's waved around like a flag, to make people think there is a brand there, when really, each FZer practices his own "brand" based on his own understanding of what Scientology could or should be. If they did this honestly (a la "The Pilot"), I'd have NO PROBLEM with that. But to pretend otherwise smacks of the Church's deceptive practices, based on Hubbard's writings.

Thank you. This is beautifully said. This is where I have a problem with the FZ stuff. I don't think all people are the same. But I do feel that they represent themselves that way as a whole.

Why do I care??

Cause I care about what happened to me. I care about what happened to most of the people on this board and or exies in general. And I care very much about anybody who has been lucky enough to have avoided the 'tech' as promoted and 'mostly' presented to the world... that they do not fall prey to it. That if there is anything at all which is worthy in it.... then it should be clearly defined as to what that is And why.

 

[KnightVision]

Whatever, robot.

The answers have all been given in the past, you've decided not to see them, or disagree with them, but I'm not your bitch. Either read the answers, or stop demanding them.

http://www.fzaoint.net/reformer.html

Wow,

I actually had a higher opinion of you than that.


Were still in the early rounds, so you've got time to score better.

 

[uniquemand]

Gotcha, KV. Perhaps we have some points of agreement. If you'll promise to stop telling me my leader is LRH and that I'm a cultist, I'll stop attacking you. It's best we take each other as individuals, instead of as representatives of some other force.

 

[Panda Termint]

Terril, (I mistakenly posted this response on another similar thread)

I understand your protest and support your right to believe as you choose.

I don't know where some posters here got the idea that being a member of ESMB equated to being appointed the Belief-Police but that, nevertheless, seems to be the case.

Mindless opposition to other viewpoints is no substitute for tolerance and understanding of our differences.

Cheers, Panda

 

[Feral]

Terril,

I get your protest, I agree.

KV, I do see you hold the cofs in contempt, your insulting way of attacking any adherents to Hubbards teachings make that plain. But what are you trying to achieve? Do you think you can help a single person with that rhetoric? Do you think a single scio will look at the board at your insults and say; "My God he is right!!, I am insane!"

Hell, KV I grew up a christian and believed I ate Jesus in a piece of bread on a sunday morning. I was also told a bloke built a boat that saved two of every animal on earth and that you could sit out your crimes in purgatory.

It is not for you or me to say whose religious beliefs are crazy, unless you want to start a cult of your own.

You practice extreme religious bigottry and kid us that it is a public service, and in your hypocracy you say;

SCN AND BIGOTS ARE THE ONE WHO WISHES TO STOP SUCH COMM.

SCN IS PRACTICED BY THE INSANE.

You are giving critics a bad name. OSA could not have put a better poster on the board to make us look silly if it had tried.

 

[Feral]

Double