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[Terril park]

You quote a 1959 LRH datum on this board - that has 100's of much closer to now - real life repudiations of that quote!

True. I'm not interested in the repudiations, don't think with them generally
and I like this viewpoint.

You don't?

 

[Alan]

True. I'm not interested in the repudiations, don't think with them generally
and I like this viewpoint.

You don't?

PRINCIPLES OF SCIENTOLOGY

The fate of any piece of knowledge man has ever been able to learn about himself, his society or this universe has [been to] sooner or later become subservient to some special interest with a curve on it to make more slaves. And this is one time when as long as I’ve got words in my mouth and breath in my thetan - this is one time that curve isn’t going to happen. And that’s all I want your help in. We want to make sure that what we know never comes to serve some special interest for the subjugation of man.

The first part of the quote was negated by Keeping Scio Working!

All Dianetics and Scientology attempts to do is to undo the magic spell which has made people less than they want to be. And to do that it requires that some truth be known. And that the central and principal truths of man be know, merely as truths - not as pitches and curves to serve some different reason or purpose. And that information is its own best protector. If it is itself, if it is what is known, if it is what has been learned, then it undoes its own spells. And the only possible excuse we have for training anybody, for processing anybody is that Dianetics and Scientology will undo Dianetics and Scientology. And that’s the first time known in the history of man that a subject, if it ever curved down, could also go up - that a subject undid itself. And that would be true knowledge.

Dianetics and Scientology does not undo Dianetics and Scientology.

Dianetics and Scientology will if continued too long - solidify Dianetics and Scientology into a solid mass.

There are too many missing pieces in Dianetics or Scientology for it to fully work.

Alan

 

[Terril park]

Dianetics and Scientology does not undo Dianetics and Scientology.

Dianetics and Scientology will if continued too long - solidify Dianetics and Scientology into a solid mass.

Done in COS I'm sure you are correct.

There are too many missing pieces in Dianetics or Scientology for it to fully work.

This may be. But it does work.

You have just expressed your love for this path. You perhaps wouldn't
be on that path but for your early involment in Scn.

Alan[/QUOTE]

 

[Alan]

You have just expressed your love for this path. You perhaps wouldn't
be on that path but for your early involment in Scn.

Prior to Scio I was on a path - very shaky - but life was improving.

Scio helped, tremendously.

The SHSBC course and the great team of fellow processors and the combined research and development of us all was even more incredible.

LRH at that time was pretty awesome.

I'm still evolving Sometimes for the better!

Alan

 

[Terril park]

I'm still evolving Sometimes for the better!

Alan

Amen.

A nice wish for all.

 

[Alanzo]

Notice the lack of arrogance in this discussion.

To me, it is much more likely that the participants here have gained something valuable from what they have been doing.

Nice to see.

For me, at least.

 

[xrqpdx]

My personal example was to redo data series so as to enable me to reject LRH datums. It worked.


From my website:-

PRINCIPLES OF SCIENTOLOGY

The fate of any piece of knowledge man has ever been able to learn about himself, his society or this universe has [been to] sooner or later become subservient to some special interest with a curve on it to make more slaves. And this is one time when as long as I’ve got words in my mouth and breath in my thetan - this is one time that curve isn’t going to happen. And that’s all I want your help in. We want to make sure that what we know never comes to serve some special interest for the subjugation of man.

All Dianetics and Scientology attempts to do is to undo the magic spell which has made people less than they want to be. And to do that it requires that some truth be known. And that the central and principal truths of man be know, merely as truths - not as pitches and curves to serve some different reason or purpose. And that information is its own best protector. If it is itself, if it is what is known, if it is what has been learned, then it undoes its own spells. And the only possible excuse we have for training anybody, for processing anybody is that Dianetics and Scientology will undo Dianetics and Scientology. And that’s the first time known in the history of man that a subject, if it ever curved down, could also go up - that a subject undid itself. And that would be true knowledge.

We must never let what we know get into a state whereby it itself is a tremendous numbers of 'now-I’m-supposed-tos.'

L.Ron Hubbard, c59118c, Final Lecture

This quote seems quite noble on its surface and would be fine if it was practiced by its author and the ones he left behind to 'safeguard' it.

Now I think we all agree that the CoS is anything BUT what you quote above so I won't go into that.

LRH however was a total dual identity.

Evidenced by a declare order on Bob Musack from 1965 wherin the primary 'crime' was refusing power processing. This proves that LRH did not want 'self determinism' on one's 'route to freedom'.

This bears out when you look at the logic he supposes. All of his 'ethics' tech revolves around a core concept that Scientoogy as invented by him, is beyond reproach. YET, he quite clearly states that it is not perfect and is labelled 'workable'. He essentially admits it can be better. But to attempt to improve upon it is a high crime.

My only reasonable answer to this contradiction is that he flipped one day or that at a certain point it wasn't him authoring it anymore.

 

[Zinjifar]

My only reasonable answer to this contradiction is that he flipped one day or that at a certain point it wasn't him authoring it anymore.

Speaking as an outsider, I see no sudden 'break' or discontinuity in Ron's evolution. Sure, he got worse, both because of his drug usage and physical and mental degeneration, but, mostly, I think, from his success as rich, recusive cult leader. Us mere mortals are forced by circumstance to maintain at least minimal 'touch' with reality, but, Ron was surrounded by those who thought Him infallible and had the money to hermetically seal Himself from reality.

Too much 'control' is obviously not good for humans.

Zinj

 

[Jimmy Cricket]

Too much 'control' is obviously not good for humans.

Hmmm, "The Bridge to Total Control"

 

[Veda]

This quote seems quite noble on its surface and would be fine if it was practiced by its author and the ones he left behind to 'safeguard' it.

Now I think we all agree that the CoS is anything BUT what you quote above so I won't go into that.

LRH however was a total dual identity.

Evidenced by a declare order on Bob Musack from 1965 wherin the primary 'crime' was refusing power processing. This proves that LRH did not want 'self determinism' on one's 'route to freedom'.

This bears out when you look at the logic he supposes. All of his 'ethics' tech revolves around a core concept that Scientology as invented by him, is beyond reproach. YET, he quite clearly states that it is not perfect and is labelled 'workable'. He essentially admits it can be better. But to attempt to improve upon it is a high crime.

My only reasonable answer to this contradiction is that he flipped one day or that at a certain point it wasn't him authoring it anymore.

Hubbard - usually indirectly - desrcibed most of what he was doing to others, before - and sometimes while - he did it to them.

"PR is overt (displayed), Intelligence is covert," Hubbard wrote in PR Series #7 (And Hubbard's "Scientology ['dirty tricks'] Intelligence tech," by the time the PR Series was being written, was already mostly complete, and in full use. And even though the average Scientologist didn't know such a "tech" existed, he/she probably would have thought it justified. However, these same Scientologists would have been surprised to learn that this "tech" was also being used on them.)

And, in Scientology, "PR" is, ultimately, subordinate to "Intelligence," just as "Love" or "ARC" is subordinate to "Will" or "KRC."

That the "good stuff" of Scientology was placed, by Hubbard, in the subordinate category of "PR" is almost impossible for most well-meaning "tech people" to digest.

The historical record, going back at least to 1938, indicates that Hubbard always had a hidden agenda, or "real goal," of self-aggrandizement, while using as a disguise, "philosophy," "self-improvement," "a better world," etc.

That the "disguise" had some redeeming characteristics, IMO, makes it all the more confusing.

 

[xrqpdx]

Speaking as an outsider, I see no sudden 'break' or discontinuity in Ron's evolution. Sure, he got worse, both because of his drug usage and physical and mental degeneration, but, mostly, I think, from his success as rich, recusive cult leader. Us mere mortals are forced by circumstance to maintain at least minimal 'touch' with reality, but, Ron was surrounded by those who thought Him infallible and had the money to hermetically seal Himself from reality.

Too much 'control' is obviously not good for humans.

Zinj

You're probably right.

Hubbard - usually indirectly - desrcibed most of what he was doing to others, before - and sometimes while - he did it to them.

"PR is overt (displayed), Intelligence is covert," Hubbard wrote in PR Series #7 (And Hubbard's "Scientology ['dirty tricks'] Intelligence tech," by the time the PR Series was being written, was already mostly complete, and in full use. And even though the average Scientologist didn't know such a "tech" existed, he/she probably would have thought it justified. However, these same Scientologists would have been surprised to learn that this "tech" was also being used on them.)

And, in Scientology, "PR" is, ultimately, subordinate to "Intelligence," just as "Love" or "ARC" is subordinate to "Will" or "KRC."

That the "good stuff" of Scientology was placed, by Hubbard, in the subordinate category of "PR" is almost impossible for most well-meaning "tech people" to digest.

The historical record, going back at least to 1938, indicates that Hubbard always had a hidden agenda, or "real goal," of self-aggrandizement, while using as a disguise, "philosophy," "self-improvement," "a better world," etc.

That the "disguise" had some redeeming characteristics, IMO, makes it all the more confusing.

Yes the redeeming qualities, 'the hook' does make the whole process most confusing.

Is the 1938 record you speak of the letter to Polly? Only because I never knew if that letter was fully coaberated.

The PR series you speak of I don't think I ever did read either. Were these in the OEC? If not I wonder if anyone has a softcopy available.

 

[Veda]

You're probably right.

Yes the redeeming qualities, 'the hook' does make the whole process most confusing.

Is the 1938 record you speak of the letter to Polly? Only because I never knew if that letter was fully coaberated.

The PR series you speak of I don't think I ever did read either. Were these in the OEC? If not I wonder if anyone has a softcopy available.

The 1938 letter, a.k.a. the "Skipper Letter," is quite genuine, and is part of a large collection of other letters, and manuscripts, typed with the same typewriter.

The non-confidential issues of the 'PR Series' can be found in the 'Management Series' (a 'Green Volume'), and the confidential 'PR Series' issues, and other confidential writings, by Hubbard, on the subject of "PR" and also "Propaganda," can be found in various "senior" course packs on these topics. Parts can be found, also, scattered around the Internet.

The publicly available (non-confidential) Green Volume 'PR Series' is a mish mosh of writings, ranging from what Hubbard called "PR of PR" to "Black PR" to even a taste of "Dead Agenting" by way of tall tale-telling - see 'PR Series #18' in particular.

Since "PR" is the "mask" for "Intelligence," and the two work together (behind he scenes), it's difficult to appreciate how the "PR" and Propaganda "tech" writings fit into the scheme of Hubbard's Scientology without, also, studying its "Intelligence tech," most of which is confidential.

And by "confidential" is meant really confidential, not confidential but advertised, as are the "OT levels."

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=31490&postcount=3

 

[crm1978]

Interesting Question? I wonder how many of those book sales are the staff/public being given money sent to bookstores to buy lots of copies then recycleing back to bridge pubs to go back to the bookstores I love the story about bookstore staff finding the price tags still on the books coming from Pubs.It would be interesting to do a study where you gave a random group DMSMH to read then see how many finished it and what percentage started the bridge I bet the numbers would not be good.I read somewhere that 80% of the new people leave Scn within one year.The big question is what are the trends of membership .I gather that membership has been on a long and steady decline for a number of years