"What Have Those People On OT VII Been Doing?"

[Panda Termint]

Panda, HH was referring to what you might refer to as the acts of a suppressive group. If COS never did any of these things to you or your wife personally, maybe you could be more specific about how and why you decided COS was a 'suppressive group' (and also why you still use Scn terminology to describe it after saying you are completely out? I don't think you're very clear. Please clarify.

First point; Read what HH wrote again. I quoted it. HH listed a bunch of reasons why people blow all centered around "attacks you" and I'm saying, "That's not true for me and wasn't my reason for leaving the CofS."

They never did "attack me" until long after I'd officially resigned and started posting here and even then only did it indirectly (as far as I know).

Second point; Read what I wrote in response to HH's post again. I already said why I found it to be a Suppressive Group, by honestly examining its actions, intentions and statistics (such as were available). I applied scientology to it. Do you doubt that the CofS is a bona fide Suppressive Group (per the standard english language definitions of those two words)? I don't.

I'm sorry that you take issue with the scientological wording I used but those were the words said to the Flag Recovery Mission and, at the time they were said, both my wife and I were still very much scientologists and always spoke straight scientologese, particularly to unwelcome SO members.

Clear enough?

(Helpful hint for anyone troubled by unwelcome visits from scientologists; just throw Hubbard's own words back at them in order to derail the foot-in-the-door routine and don't engage in any other conversation. They're powerless before the mighty and inarguable wisdom of Ron.)

 

[Northern Shewolf]

Well I can answer it:

What they were doing, and what they will continue doing, is Mental Masturbation!

Addition: I just scanned through a bunch of the comments on Rinder's post, and it really shows most of them (with few exceptions) are finally waking up from the MindF--- .

I would add to what you so aptly named mental masturbation thetitillating idea of belonging to an exclusive club. Sometimes membership is everything, and some people will erase reason and all common sense just to belong.
Just from observations alone.....

 

[WildKat]

I would add to what you so aptly named mental masturbation thetitillating idea of belonging to an exclusive club. Sometimes membership is everything, and some people will erase reason and all common sense just to belong.
Just from observations alone.....

You bring up a good point, about belonging. I think it's one of the reasons a lot of us stayed as long as we did. We were part of a group. Some of us were disenchanted with "regular" religions, and Scn offered that sense of belonging and comraderie that most people crave. And purpose. That made it harder to walk away.

And it's not so easy finding a replacement group. Especially for those of us who shy away from any religion. I haven't found a replacement yet, and now that I'm retired, is it any wonder I spend so much time here on ESMB?

 

[Gib]

Panda, HH was referring to what you might refer to as the acts of a suppressive group. If COS never did any of these things to you or your wife personally, maybe you could be more specific about how and why you decided COS was a 'suppressive group' (and also why you still use Scn terminology to describe it after saying you are completely out? I don't think you're very clear. Please clarify.

You might as well say the say thing to HH, case in point this post by HH (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-Scientology&p=1039236&viewfull=1#post1039236)

I don't have a problem speaking the lingo and going back and forth. And Panda is right, speak the lingo to scientologists to get thru to them.

 

[Panda Termint]

Just for the record, I don't disagree with the HH post under discussion, I'm sure it holds true for many people who left because they were attacked in one form or another. I'm just saying it's not the case with me and (probably) more than a few others here who left scientology for other reasons.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Are We Possessed?

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/wordpress/are-we-possessed/

I was just reading this article in the archives of one of the websites I check in on from time to time. The author is quite astute in his observations and often impresses me. He is a professor with a background in both Buddhism and Shamanism.

I think some folks used what they learned in the courserooms and applied it thru their 'own' intuitive faculties, taking what they could verifiably translate psychologically as truth.....and leaving that alone which didn't match their standard. I knew a few like this who went on up to the top of the grade chart. They were not fanatical about KSW. They were seemingly always on the verge of a comm-ev too. Usually they were fiercely successful making their own fortunes in business and highly effective with the public non Scio merchants.

I confess, I was oftentimes doing something 'else' with just about every case action I deciphered thru my own filter. I wouldn't be caught if I kept my mouth shut. Those friends that applied acupuncture and yoga and holistic medicine in their businesses were often attracted to the spiritual 2 way communication involved on NOTS. It just resonated with how they saw things. Very often, these practitioners had to be 'careful' not to be made wrong and stopped as entertaining off policy beliefs. Their truth was what they observed .... their own Weltanschauung.

 

[Gib]

Are We Possessed?

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/wordpress/are-we-possessed/

I was just reading this article in the archives of one of the websites I check in on from time to time. The author is quite astute in his observations and often impresses me. He is a professor with a background in both Buddhism and Shamanism.

I think some folks used what they learned in the courserooms and applied it thru their 'own' intuitive faculties, taking what they could verifiably translate psychologically as truth.....and leaving that alone which didn't match their standard. I knew a few like this who went on up to the top of the grade chart. They were not fanatical about KSW. They were seemingly always on the verge of a comm-ev too. Usually they were fiercely successful making their own fortunes in business and highly effective with the public non Scio merchants.

I confess, I was oftentimes doing something 'else' with just about every case action I deciphered thru my own filter. I wouldn't be caught if I kept my mouth shut. Those friends that applied acupuncture and yoga and holistic medicine in their businesses were often attracted to the spiritual 2 way communication involved on NOTS. It just resonated with how they saw things. Very often, these practitioners had to be 'careful' not to be made wrong and stopped as entertaining off policy beliefs. Their truth was what they observed .... their own Weltanschauung.

just wondering, isn't that article you post a lot evaluation of what to think?

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/wordpress/are-we-possessed/

"Jung writes, “since the world began, mankind has been possessed.” Possession is synonymous with bondage. Jung comments that in states of possession it comes down to “the same age-old experience: something objectively psychic and strange to us, not under our control, is fixedly opposed to the sovereignty of our will.”

Well, Jung, you got any proof?

 

[Hatshepsut]

just wondering, isn't that article you post a lot evaluation of what to think?

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/wordpress/are-we-possessed/



Well, Jung, you got any proof?

No more than the general idea that our own 'will' and determinism might be suffering under the influence of undesirable ones. Or that we'd be better off without such.

 

[COB N LRH]

What seemed the norm for me was when someone else was getting into trouble, well they pulled it in and was therefore something to be ignored. But when it was you who was getting a raw deal, slowly eyes began to open.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

The way I see it, at least one of the following is true:

(1) There has been a tech advancement that is allowing pre-OTs to blow off BTs faster than before.

(2) People have been reluctant to set aside 10 years of their life to do New OT 7 so the Church has decided to announce it now only takes 18 to 30 months.

(3) The Church wants people to finish New OT 7 so they can be regged for -- here it comes -- OT 8!!

Just my $.02.

Helena

 

[Panda Termint]

Kevin/Feral and I were once discussing the Solo NOTs experience back when we were both still-in scientologists (if I recall correctly).

Kev said something along the lines of, "If someone had told you before you started Solo NOTs that you were about to pay a minimum of $50K a year for the privilege of locking yourself into a secure room six times a day, auditing solely for the benefit of Beings other than yourself and that you would quite likely be stuck doing that without a break for the next 10+ years... would you have ever started this Level?"

It still cracks me up!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

--snipped--

And HellofaHoax......Why does the cult attack its "own"??

I suppose there are lots of reasons.....

But who decides, whom to attack?? And why? And when?

ANSWER: The essential nature of Scientology is destruction. Destroying the reactive mind. Destroying individuality. Destroying people's families. Destroying their finance. Destroying self-determination. Destroying competition ("psychs", "medicos", "squirrels", et al). Destroying whistleblowers. Destroying the vast nests of BTs living parasitically on/in your body, destroying those who don't agree with Scientology, destroying those who reveal Scientology's secrets (its crimes, its fraud, its lies, its claims about non-existent advanced states such as Clear, OT and exterior), destroying the true history and record of L. Ron Hubbard, the Guardians Office, OSA and the billions of ill begotten "donations" that nobody ever is allowed to discover the use and disposition of.

Because Scientology destroys virtually everything and everyone that comes into its gravitational influence, Scientology and Scientologists inevitably end up destroying each other, themselves and the cult of Scientology itself.

Scientology: It's entirely toxic, mentally, spiritually, famillialy & financially. Yet it charges you fortunes to sell you an entire Grade Chart of various "purifications".

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

First point; Read what HH wrote again. I quoted it. HH listed a bunch of reasons why people blow all centered around "attacks you" and I'm saying, "That's not true for me and wasn't my reason for leaving the CofS."

They never did "attack me" until long after I'd officially resigned and started posting here and even then only did it indirectly (as far as I know).

Second point; Read what I wrote in response to HH's post again. I already said why I found it to be a Suppressive Group, by honestly examining its actions, intentions and statistics (such as were available). I applied scientology to it. Do you doubt that the CofS is a bona fide Suppressive Group (per the standard english language definitions of those two words)? I don't.

I'm sorry that you take issue with the scientological wording I used but those were the words said to the Flag Recovery Mission and, at the time they were said, both my wife and I were still very much scientologists and always spoke straight scientologese, particularly to unwelcome SO members.

Clear enough?

(Helpful hint for anyone troubled by unwelcome visits from scientologists; just throw Hubbard's own words back at them in order to derail the foot-in-the-door routine and don't engage in any other conversation. They're powerless before the mighty and inarguable wisdom of Ron.)

Let me help you avoid the DevT of doing clay demos.

I am saying that people leave Scientology because they ultimately discover that Scientology is harmful to them. Harmful as in does something against them. Does something against them as in "attacks" them to greater and lesser degrees (depending how long they stick around for the S&M).

An "attack" doesn't have to be someone throwing you in a chain locker or locking you in a double-wide trailer with iron bars on the windows and a security guard blocking the door 24/7.

An "attack" on an individual can be so insidious that they don't even realize they are being attacked. That's why people stay in Scientology so long--and also why Indies leave the COS and keep telling their wins for years before they figure out that they were unceremoniously scammed just like everyone else. (see "The Marty Rathbun Story and others victims of Scientology who were extremely slow to figure out that they were victims who had been attacked with Scientology, not winners as they once promoted)

If you don't like the idea of your having been harmed or attacked by Scientology, congratulations, "you must be the only one".[SUP]1[/SUP]


[SUP]1[/SUP] This line comes from a famous and common joke in Eastern European countries where an American or Australian comes bounding into the room with a huge plastered winning grin. Everything they say is super great, super amazing. The lowly Eastern European politely asks them "How are you?" and the American/Australian booms out: "I AM DOING FANNNNNNNTASTIC!" or something equally indicative of their perpetually super-winning, causative state. The Eastern European looks at them and drolly gives their deadpan reply: "You must be the only one." The first time I heard that response, I didn't quite get the sheer hilarity of it. But, in short order the ludicrousness of people who always represent themselves as big winners (knowingly or not) became apparent.

 

[prosecco]

..




ANSWER: The essential nature of Scientology is destruction. Destroying the reactive mind. Destroying individuality. Destroying people's families. Destroying their finance. Destroying self-determination. Destroying competition ("psychs", "medicos", "squirrels", et al). Destroying whistleblowers. Destroying the vast nests of BTs living parasitically on/in your body, destroying those who don't agree with Scientology, destroying those who reveal Scientology's secrets (its crimes, its fraud, its lies, its claims about non-existent advanced states such as Clear, OT and exterior), destroying the true history and record of L. Ron Hubbard, the Guardians Office, OSA and the billions of ill begotten "donations" that nobody ever is allowed to discover the use and disposition of.

Because Scientology destroys virtually everything and everyone that comes into its gravitational influence, Scientology and Scientologists inevitably end up destroying each other, themselves and the cult of Scientology itself.

Scientology: It's entirely toxic, mentally, spiritually, famillialy & financially. Yet it charges you fortunes to sell you an entire Grade Chart of various "purifications".

Here's what I never quite understood. Someone who has never been in scientology can freely associate with family who are scientologists, yet if one decided that it wasn't for them, there was always some sort of label, whether it was SP, PTS, freeloader whatever.

Catholics have this fabulous label for those who don't practice anymore: lapsed. Brilliant as it means they are on a break or whatever, as if to infer they will be back at some stage...

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

Here's what I never quite understood. Someone who has never been in scientology can freely associate with family who are scientologists, yet if one decided that it wasn't for them, there was always some sort of label, whether it was SP, PTS, freeloader whatever.

Catholics have this fabulous label for those who don't practice anymore: lapsed. Brilliant as it means they are on a break or whatever, as if to infer they will be back at some stage...

You put the magnifying glass exactly where it needs to go.

The reason why Scientology attacks Scientologists is precisely because they can.

The further an individual delves into the COS and the greater their involvement, the COS proportionately ramps up the controls, deprivations, coercion and punishments vs that individual.

Example: A new Scientologist gets love bombed. They want to be an actor or musician. At the beginning, they get encouragement and "theta' about their sky-high goal. They are shown LRH references about how the artist is the most valuable visionary in society. As the Scientologist begins to pay for auditing/training, they come under the ever-increasing and relentless controls of the cult. At first it is rather harmless, they are put on a mandatory schedule. But, then they are sent to ethics for being late or missing a day.

The anaconda-like vice is always tightening.

When a Scientologist gets onto the upper levels, they are ORDERED to do many things, including paying appx. $40,000 or more per year to show up at Flag to be interrogated about their "crimes" every six months.

The OT is forced to become an IAS PATRON ($50,000) in order to be "accepted" onto the upper OT levels.

OTs are ordered to attend "mandatory" briefings, events and fund raising activities.

Once the cult member is fully "dedicated" the COS can really take out the big guns and controls.

Because they can get away with it.

A new Scientologist would never see a team of registrars knocking on their home's front door on a Wednesday at midnight. And the registrars would not "8C" their way inside and keep the Scientologist on the punishing end of a hardcore, many hours-long donation session, never letting up until the person writes the check or turns over their charge cards. That wouldn't happen to a new Scientologist. Not yet.

A person who decides to leave Scientology can still be controlled if they have family/ friends or professional associates still inside the cult.

That's why the rules are different for different people.

It's all embedded in that little phrase "....if they can get away with it."

 

[ThetanExterior]

I miss the love-bombing ....

But not Ethics ....

 

[beltway]

Do scns love-bomb one another in groups and/or individually at all levels, or is it mostly focused on newly-ins, valuable marks, celebs, etc?

Is there Scrubbard policy on LB'ing with or without the term?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

I miss the love-bombing ....

But not Ethics ....

NOTICE: The Church of Hoaxology will be holding a mandatory-attendance LOVE BOMBING event from 10:00am to 10:30 am Sunday morning, replacing the usual Sunday sermon. Persons who do not attend the LOVE BOMBING will be routed to ethics for lower conditions, O/W writeups, Sec Checking and various terroristic threats to lose their eternity if they do not donate substantial enough sums of cash to make up the damage. Immediately following this, there will be a muster to tell wins followed by public recriminations and humiliation of anyone who isn't VVGIs about Ron's tech.

 

[WildKat]

Do scns love-bomb one another in groups and/or individually at all levels, or is it mostly focused on newly-ins, valuable marks, celebs, etc?

Is there Scrubbard policy on LB'ing with or without the term?

I never heard use of that term (love-bomb) until years after I had left. It is more in the form of "acknowledgment" - usually the clapping and congratulations after finishing any course or completing anything. You got big smiles and "Well done!" and basically lots of admiration. You learned that if you didn't come up with a glowing "success story" (and F/N at Exams) and beam widely during the clapping, you would be routed to Cramming (Qual) or Ethics to see what was wrong with you that you didn't get the E.P. ("End Phenomena") of being blown out and wanting to do more, i.e., go see the Reg and pony up some more money for the next course. There IS written policy on that.

 

[Operating DB]

Do scns love-bomb one another in groups and/or individually at all levels, or is it mostly focused on newly-ins, valuable marks, celebs, etc?

Is there Scrubbard policy on LB'ing with or without the term?

That's an interesting question! At the time I was not aware I was being love bombed and why. I think the whole process of LB-ing just happens intuitively or by osmosis. You have it done to you. You then do it to the newbies. Maybe there's a hidden confidential policy on it. I don't know. Maybe Helluvahoax could mock up a hubbard PL on what could have been the LB Policy Letter.