What is Forgivness?

[MrNobody]

Any good therapist will tell you that ALL emotions have a purpose. That ALL emotions should be felt. Being happy all the time...being a Pollyanna, it's no way to live life.

Don't have much time to read and write this week, so googling what a Pollyanna is will have to wait.

I might be willing to agree on that all emotions have a purpose, but not all of these purposes are beneficial ones.

Example: What beneficial purposes do emotions have that lead to road rage? Because, frankly, I can't see anything beneficial coming from that.

 

[Adam7986]

Don't have much time to read and write this week, so googling what a Pollyanna is will have to wait.

I might be willing to agree on that all emotions have a purpose, but not all of these purposes are beneficial ones.

Example: What beneficial purposes do emotions have that lead to road rage? Because, frankly, I can't see anything beneficial coming from that.

"Road rage" is not an emotion. It's a reference to a psychological state of emotional imbalance, which is something you can avoid if you know how to properly express your emotions to begin with.

Pollyanna is someone who is always happy (usually overly so) and pretends like there is never occasion to feel any other emotion.

 

[Udarnik]

"Road rage" is not an emotion. It's a reference to a psychological state of emotional imbalance, which is something you can avoid if you know how to properly express your emotions to begin with.

Pollyanna is someone who is always happy (usually overly so) and pretends like there is never occasion to feel any other emotion.

Pollyanna was a 1913 novel, but is best known as a Disney movie.

[video=youtube;Pn5rShDpL6o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn5rShDpL6o[/video]

This version is better than Walt's usual watered down pap:

[video=youtube;9EzCaz_qyEg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EzCaz_qyEg[/video]

 

[Loohan]

Sorry i haven't taken the time to read this thread, but i'll throw in my 2 cents' worth anyway.
Forgiveness has been vastly overrated. Yes, there is a time and place for forgiveness. You FORGIVE a good being who did something bad because they were mind-controlled/immature/demon-posessed, etc. You forgive people who have done wrong but SINCERELY repent and want to make right.

But forgiveness is also a scam promoted by the biggest overarching satanist pedophile murder cult: the Catholic Church, and many of their other churches, cults, and movements they covertly control. It is about telling abuse victims that closure can come from forgiving unrepentant serial child rapists, etc.
Fuck that shit.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

It's funny. I wrote up a big post saying that I don't forgive, then later on was thinking I've done some things I'D like to be forgiven for. Is that a contradiction? Basically, I hurt someone "because I didn't know any better". I'd like to undo my past mistakes (or at least make up for them) and start over, but of course that isn't possible.

Perhaps I don't deserve to be forgiven.

I'm just not sure any more.

Helena

 

[Adam7986]

It's funny. I wrote up a big post saying that I don't forgive, then later on was thinking I've done some things I'D like to be forgiven for. Is that a contradiction? Basically, I hurt someone "because I didn't know any better". I'd like to undo my past mistakes (or at least make up for them) and start over, but of course that isn't possible.

Perhaps I don't deserve to be forgiven.

I'm just not sure any more.

Helena

That's a great start to a journey of self-discovery. It's always good to ponder those things. I know that I do frequently.

 

[Gib]

It's funny. I wrote up a big post saying that I don't forgive, then later on was thinking I've done some things I'D like to be forgiven for. Is that a contradiction? Basically, I hurt someone "because I didn't know any better". I'd like to undo my past mistakes (or at least make up for them) and start over, but of course that isn't possible.

Perhaps I don't deserve to be forgiven.

I'm just not sure any more.

Helena

maybe forgiveness is something we feel guilty about without any true bearing to the truth.

I saw my nephew about 5 years ago, I live in a different state then he does,

when I saw him , I said I apologize for not being around when you grew up. He replied,

"That's OK, Uncle Gib"
and said it with a smile of his face.

He didn't have anything on it,

but I sure thought he did. And I felt guilty.

I thought he was mad at me, or disappointed, or something, for not sending birthday gifts, or not visiting more, or not, or not, or not.

There was only the family connection.

I can't tell you how that affected me. I was relieved.

The kid didn't expect anything from me, he was just happy to see me.

 

[Loohan]

It's funny. I wrote up a big post saying that I don't forgive, then later on was thinking I've done some things I'D like to be forgiven for. Is that a contradiction? Basically, I hurt someone "because I didn't know any better". I'd like to undo my past mistakes (or at least make up for them) and start over, but of course that isn't possible.

Perhaps I don't deserve to be forgiven.

I'm just not sure any more.

Helena

We've all done things we regret. Especially if we were Scientologists.
Instead of dwelling overmuch on past mistakes, i recognize them and do better in the future.

 

[lotus]

I hear you, Lotus. I've had similar experiences. It's a heavy bag of bricks to carry and learn from. I can forgive a lot depending on the circumstances. One of my biggest unforgiving areas is being manipulated emotionally, led by the nose and heart with F.O.G. I grew up with F.O.G. daily and don't tolerate it from anyone anymore, it's a firm personal boundary.

I only went today to look at the website about F.O.G
Very much interesting.
I didn'y know that this specific emotionnal pattern,
people raised within dysfunctional family often developped
was that much specifically indentified and described.

Thank you very much!
I can understand myself , and other family members better!

 

[MrNobody]

"Road rage" is not an emotion. It's a reference to a psychological state of emotional imbalance, which is something you can avoid if you know how to properly express your emotions to begin with.

I know it isn't an emotion and I didn't say it was. In fact, I know quite well that it's an unhealthy cocktail of emotions that may lead to road rage. I've experienced it once and I don't want to experience it again.

But that isn't the point. My point is, that certain emotions can be very counter-productive in certain situations - and in those situations, one is better off to keep one's emotions in check.

Can you have a pleasant, productive conversation with your parents? If not, then you're doin' it wrong.

Before you judge that statement: I've had conversations like the one mentioned above several times with some of my greatest enemies and they ended with acceptable solutions for both parties. When I say "enemies", I mean people who really were out to destroy me and my life completely. I've lost friends, homes, cars, jobs etc because of them, but in the end, we could come to an acceptable solution - because I didn't let my emotions take the reign.

Pollyanna is someone who is always happy (usually overly so) and pretends like there is never occasion to feel any other emotion.

Yo, thanks. FYI: I'm definitely not a Pollyanna.

 

[Adam7986]

I know it isn't an emotion and I didn't say it was. In fact, I know quite well that it's an unhealthy cocktail of emotions that may lead to road rage. I've experienced it once and I don't want to experience it again.

But that isn't the point. My point is, that certain emotions can be very counter-productive in certain situations - and in those situations, one is better off to keep one's emotions in check.

Can you have a pleasant, productive conversation with your parents? If not, then you're doin' it wrong.

Before you judge that statement: I've had conversations like the one mentioned above several times with some of my greatest enemies and they ended with acceptable solutions for both parties. When I say "enemies", I mean people who really were out to destroy me and my life completely. I've lost friends, homes, cars, jobs etc because of them, but in the end, we could come to an acceptable solution - because I didn't let my emotions take the reign.

Yo, thanks. FYI: I'm definitely not a Pollyanna.

The question about my parents, I am going on year 3 of not speaking to them. And no, if I were to have a conversation in the near future with them, it would not be pleasant or productive for anyone involved. Sometimes the goal of things is not to "be productive". Sometimes you just do things because you want to do them. I am not "being productive" on ESMB by any stretch of the imagination. It's a place for casual conversation. The only "productive" conversations I might have are at work.

If you don't know how to properly channel your emotions and instead you subvert them, especially in the interest of "being productive" or to appease someone else, then you're doin' it wrong. Scientology teaches all the wrong way to do things. TRs are not useful. Emotions are an integral part of life, and subverting them is not helpful. Learning to channel them and express them is helpful.

 

[TheSpectator]

I have an ongoing debate with someone that said saying sorry doesn't mean that it will not happen again. It just means that they are sorry, that's all.

My response is, then why tell me that if you plan on continuing that action? Doesn't saying you're sorry mean that you realize that wasn't cool?

Another time an ex got super angry and said I wasn't forgiving them (caught him lying), started yelling at me that even Jesus forgives and who am I not to forgive him. I'm like WTF?! Saying sorry means I'm supposed to automatically forgive you, why not stop doing shit that you have to be sorry for? It felt like I was supposed to relieve his guilt and I refused to do so.

Just wondering what other people views are on this.

This is a good summary of Forgiveness. He divides the subject into 3 parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xsVM_gd0Tc

 

[Dean Blair]

I have an ongoing debate with someone that said saying sorry doesn't mean that it will not happen again. It just means that they are sorry, that's all.

My response is, then why tell me that if you plan on continuing that action? Doesn't saying you're sorry mean that you realize that wasn't cool?

Another time an ex got super angry and said I wasn't forgiving them (caught him lying), started yelling at me that even Jesus forgives and who am I not to forgive him. I'm like WTF?! Saying sorry means I'm supposed to automatically forgive you, why not stop doing shit that you have to be sorry for? It felt like I was supposed to relieve his guilt and I refused to do so.

Just wondering what other people views are on this.

As an ex Scientologist I have been studying Christianity. The Bible says in Matthew 18:15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother." In Luke 17:3 the Bible says "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him." When the disciple asked Jesus how many times should I forgive him? Seven? Jesus said he should forgive him seventy times seven.

I have found forgiveness difficult to apply at times but when I really try and someone has apologized and is truly repentant, we both feel freer and much better about it all. No longer carrying the anger or hostility I have had for the other is cathartic.

 

[marjiking]

As an ex Scientologist I have been studying Christianity. The Bible says in Matthew 18:15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother." In Luke 17:3 the Bible says "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him." When the disciple asked Jesus how many times should I forgive him? Seven? Jesus said he should forgive him seventy times seven.

I have found forgiveness difficult to apply at times but when I really try and someone has apologized and is truly repentant, we both feel freer and much better about it all. No longer carrying the anger or hostility I have had for the other is cathartic.

it also says even if he transgresses again forgive him to forgive is to forgive one self who are you to judge one's actions only god can judge so let sinners sin to repent means to stop and go the other way just remember in order to forgive one must forgive themselves.

 

[Gib]

it also says even if he transgresses again forgive him to forgive is to forgive one self who are you to judge one's actions only god can judge so let sinners sin to repent means to stop and go the other way just remember in order to forgive one must forgive themselves.

I suppose one could ask the so called sinner

what are you trying to accomplish?

 

[renegade]

I have been pondering this issue for a while and have come to a conclusion for myself.

What has worked for me is to allow myself to feel whatever I feel and not condemn that, because it is what I feel and think that is being emotionally honest with myself.

I went through a process very much like the 5 stages of grief and loss. http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/000617

It really was a process similar to peeling an onion, so I refrained from beating myself up even when I felt hatred and vengeance towards this person. It at least bought me some relief and got me out of a depression which felt way better. Anytime I believed I was bad because someone kept saying I was wrong to not forgive just made it harder and created more resistance, like when playing with the Chinese finger toy, the harder you pull the harder you get trapped. All that did was make me feel worse and prolonged this battle within myself.

So accepting where I was at, allowed me to process it further and eventually not even feel any negative emotion on what was done. It really had nothing to do with condoning or relieving the other person of any responsibility for their actions. The super-glue that had previously stuck me to the action, negative feelings, and in the past was finally dissolved when I allowed myself to feel emotions of grief, victimhood, hate, vengeance, anger, finally to "who cares," is when I finally let it go.

It is wonderful to be free of it and has nothing to do with that person at all. He probably doesn't even know how much grief I went through nor did he ever care or think he did anything wrong in the first place.