The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yes I know iamblichus...so what do you find interesting about him? I am most familiar with his Neoplatonic cosmology. Thank you for eydie.....

The Theurgy thing is interesting. They are spiritually trying to re-unite the governing theta lines and their branchoffs according to attributes.... with the cosmic Source. The first teachings were very specific about how the soul got trapped in a body and the wrong way and right ways out. I noticed before Maria, you said that the old tech failed to address Forces, which was a mistake. The Theurgist goes after intelligent and intelligible Causes and wills and not just beingness. These were occult beginnings of the western esoteric traditions. Putting everything in communion with the Divine....like later Kabbalists...

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I like my Margaritas with Grand Marnier from the top shelf.

....or I used to.

Herb Alpert - Definitive Hits (2001) Full Album: https://youtu.be/0kVXkNejboc

 

[Terril park]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

Mozart's Piano Concerto #8 is a small scale work written in Mozart's early years when he lived in Salzburg, Austria. It is an intimate work with limited dynamics but it is a perfect piece of music in the Classic late 18th century Austrian style. Christian Zacharias, as a young man is the solo pianist. IMO he does such a perfect job with this piece that Mozart himself could not have played it any better. Christian's embellishments and little ad libs are perfect. He seems to be in a state of unity with the music, his performance is effortless and yet perfect. The last movement starting at 15.00 is my favorite. Christian and the orchestra just totally nail the performace with a perfect 10 score or more like 10+.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3XJXIMBDiM

Lakey

IMO Mozarts symphony 41 is his greatest work, specially
the last movement, along with parts of his requiem, most of which was written by a pupil.

Here's a selection of some of my favorites:-

In date order I believe. Oldest first.

Knappetsbusch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNV_wptSLPM

Prohaska
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCchVWK6l0


Beecham
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oofFQUuU84w


Walter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Psr7qr5Lx8

Szell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEwg_AiKC7A

Bernstein
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHffmuEcyHw

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: Heidrun Beer's Easter Message - A Theory of Life

I really enjoyed Heidrun Beer's Easter Message on Facebook this morning. It is also a fine theory about what life is about and where we go after shedding our bodies here on Earth. Heidrun gave me permission to copy her article and post it elsewhere. Heidrun's message fits in fairly nicely with the Jewish interpretation I just posted. Heidrun's articles is short, so there is not as much detail as in the Jewish article. However, Heidrun says quite a bit in a very few words. I resonated well with what she said, and would like to get some feedback from some of you regulars and any newbies that care to opine.

Heidrun Beer
"Greetings to my friends in the whole world! I would like to say a word to the Easter idea. You may find this anything between logical and completely absurd - but I believe with all my heart that Jesus did not die for our sins. I believe that he died to demonstrate to us that we are all spiritual beings and that physical death is not the end of our life as a spirit. He returned to his disciples to prove it, and encouraged us to do what he did - believe in our immortality and live in the knowledge that we are offsprings of the Supreme Being.
As for our sins - it is our own job to own up to them, and make up for them. A sin as such is probably not such a bad thing - since all people are immortal and can only learn from the experiences that we give them -, but each sin turns us a little bit darker and less perfect. With each sin we blemish ourselves. Then, when this mortal body's life span is over and we move on to eternal life in the world of spirit, we gravitate to the level of darkness or light that corresponds with the level of brightness (or lack of) to which we have committed ourselves - by our actions, our omissions - good and bad ones - or, to use a more technical word, by the level of vibration to which we are attuned at the moment of death as a result of the life that we lived.

It is in our hands where, how and with whom we spend eternity. Not that we are condemned to something like hell forever if we have sinned. We can work ourselves out of that even after our transition. But Jesus did not do it for us. That's not why he died. We have to do it ourselves - or we do ourselves a favour and learn to remove any darkness from our insides and shine brightly already now.
Happy Easter!"

Lakey for Heidrun Beer

I watched Going Clear two days ago. I was struck most by Jason Beghe as I too had his experience of becoming but a 'dot' lost inside a swarm as a result of being steered off my 'own' vector to solve problems which weren't Mine.

I had seen a lot of Gibney's compiled clips before in separate places other than in the finished film's final cut.

I guess I had a revelation last month that we are badly lost in a homogeny or at least the qlippoth left behind. In the film LRH states in the interview where he has red flowers behind him...the same. For 60 yrs the effort has been to separate out the lines and return the true purpose and goals to Each person. This is a Clearing after a sort. Researching earlier times I had failed at my own purposes to do this, some things became apparent about ending veered off into some soup.. Not all peoples are of the same lines nor are they compliled exactly alike. It is an error to shift soneone off his true line which has other purposes...and into identifying as having come down a false path. ( for him)

In sometimes regarding the meter, I find lifetimes where I felt naturally stratospheres clearer than some others. In those I detected a condition where that genetics had fewer theta lines compiled onto it. I have thought about this a lot. Just a couple of weeks ago I had an awareness that our civilization on earth has been restarted a couple of times. It is not always seeded with the exact same aberrants. Some beings just hang around as Watchers of woods and streams. This...until the next startup comes around and the evolution of human life eventually sucks them back down as they are at least slightly formatted. I don't think everyone has the same complete 'sets' of additional lines added to them. A few are more identified as the Atman because for so long there were no people anywhere.

My experience of a startling phenomenon which happened as a result of an ancient ritual is that karma is recorded in some of these add ons as part of the mind. Even CBR states some folks who might be emissaries here don't have everything because they missed the civilization programming.
It is interesting at Easter that we are talking about The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. The harm we do to ourselves as self-punishments go on automatic. At a lower level we don't have a choice but to see our sins mirrored back to us. On a higher level we may have agreed. But, I sometimes remind myself that at some level, the compulsion to be an Individual is a games condition. And my concept of myself as an idividual may be a super-identification with definite packages held in continuum thru time.

From The Wisdom of the Vedas by J.C. Chatterji

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B43TSQGtw3s6SUhLQWxGMHJ0VEk/edit?usp=docslist_api
streaming pages. no download necessary
https://archive.org/stream/wisdomofhinduswi00browrich#page/n23/mode/1up

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

IMO Mozarts symphony 41 is his greatest work, specially
the last movement, along with parts of his requiem, most of which was written by a pupil.

Here's a selection of some of my favorites:-

In date order I believe. Oldest first.

Knappetsbusch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNV_wptSLPM

Prohaska
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCchVWK6l0


Beecham
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oofFQUuU84w


Walter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Psr7qr5Lx8

Szell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEwg_AiKC7A

Bernstein
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHffmuEcyHw

39,40 & 41 are often considered of a piece and are in fact awesome. But of course it is Mozart, isn't it?

 

[Terril park]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

39,40 & 41 are often considered of a piece and are in fact awesome. But of course it is Mozart, isn't it?

Of course.

Fourth movement 41 introduced new developments.
And brilliancies. IMO its a valid statement that no classical
composers did better.

I disagree/agree with that statement, despite making it.

Such comments may send me to heaven as opposed to
the other place.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I am only familiar by the fact that Hollywood movie scores are always incorporating the classics.

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

Of course.

Fourth movement 41 introduced new developments.
And brilliancies. IMO its a valid statement that no classical
composers did better.

I disagree/agree with that statement, despite making it.

Such comments may send me to heaven as opposed to
the other place.

I've spent hours with the Jupiter. Been awhile. I just might have to revisit.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The Theurgy thing is interesting. They are spiritually trying to re-unite the governing theta lines and their branchoffs according to attributes.... with the cosmic Source. The first teachings were very specific about how the soul got trapped in a body and the wrong way and right ways out. I noticed before Maria, you said that the old tech failed to address Forces, which was a mistake. The Theurgist goes after intelligent and intelligible Causes and wills and not just beingness. These were occult beginnings of the western esoteric traditions. Putting everything in communion with the Divine....like later Kabbalists...

yes forces...

notions of will and causality are tied into western views of consciousness. There is no hierarchization in natural forces or a concept of theta lines. Forces are without allegiances, at least natural forces. The only allegiance of fire is to fire etc. there is no will or cause as a concept in fire itself; it's causing is just a side effect or accident of being what it is. Forces do cause things in various ways that they combine or pressurize a situation but they are not Cartesian 'causes' as are 'cause' concepts such as OT...that is they don't care about causing and might not know they cause. Even if they are aware.... If we limit the concept of forces to those metaphysical forces that are thinking things like an I then we are dealing in wills. Ultimately wills, consciousnesses and I's are limited as forces to the extent they do or do not have power. So ultimately power is at the crux. I am curious how power is constructed since ultimately this involves repression and control. A huge question in the arena of consciousness theories is how repression can be avoided in the competition of wills that appears. Unless the divine is love and unless we could define the divine then not sure how battles are avoided. Anyway these are my tentative thoughts....how does theurgy resolve this, how does it avoid being a grasp for power? there is a book on the history of magic that really discusses a lot of this. Will try and find it.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Anyone familiar with The Planets?

http://www.amazon.com/Holst-The-Planets-Gustav/dp/B000003CU0

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

IMO Mozarts symphony 41 is his greatest work, specially
the last movement, along with parts of his requiem, most of which was written by a pupil.

Here's a selection of some of my favorites:-

In date order I believe. Oldest first.

Knappetsbusch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNV_wptSLPM

Prohaska
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCchVWK6l0


Beecham
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oofFQUuU84w


Walter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Psr7qr5Lx8

Szell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEwg_AiKC7A

Bernstein
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHffmuEcyHw

Mozart's Jupiter Symphony, was written with two other symphonies, Mozart's 39th and 40th, all within the space of 3 or 4 weeks in the summer of 1788. Each of the 3 symphonies is unique. The feat of composing 3 symphonic masterpieces within the space of one month is unprecedented. Somehow, these works resided, fully composed, inside of Mozart's mind.

If a skilled music copyist of the 18th century was given music paper, quill pen and ink and was asked to copy all the parts for 3 major symphonies. the mere fete of writing out the parts alone would pobably take a month, never mind doing any actual composing!! Mozart didn't just write out the music, he composed the music for all 3 symphonies and wrote out all the parts for each symphony, all in one month. Somehow, the music for 3 symphonies, 12 movements in all, was all composed within his mind, just sitting there ready to be written out.

I guess, that is what one would call genius! A great symphonist such as Beethoven, might wrestle with a score for a year or two or three, painstakingly writing out parts, crossing out sections and reworking them. One could almost see the blood and tears on each page of a great Beethoven score. Beethoven was also a musical genius, but of a totally different type than Mozart. He broke away from drawing room music, similar to Mozart's piano concerto #8, to epic expressive music full of pathos and emotion.

Mozart's symphony no 41, the Jupiter, written in 1788 is a sort of precursor to the type of music which Beethoven wrote, starting with his breakout work, The Eroica Symphony #3 of 1803. Mozart's untimely death in 1791 at age 35 prevented what would have been a colossal hook up of two of classical music's greatest geniuses. What might have been, if the two had linked up?
Lakey

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

Mozart's Jupiter Symphony, was written with two other symphonies, Mozart's 39th and 40th, all within the space of 3 or 4 weeks in the summer of 1788. Each of the 3 symphonies is unique. The feat of composing 3 symphonic masterpieces within the space of one month is unprecedented. Somehow, these works resided, fully composed, inside of Mozart's mind.

I a skilled music copyist of the 18th century was given was given music paper, quill pen and ink and was asked to copy all the parts for 3 major symphonies. the mere fete pf writing out the parts alone would take a month, never mind doing an actual composing!! Mozart didn't just write out the music, he composed the music for all 3 symphonies and wrote out the parts for each symphony in one month. Somehow, the music for 3 symphonies, 12 movements in all, was all composed within his mind, just sitting there ready to be written out.

I guess, that is what one would call genius! A great symphonist such as Beethoven, might wrestle with a score for a year or two or three, painstakingly writing out parts, crossing out sections and reworking them. One could almost see the blood and tears on each page of a great Beethoven score. Beethoven was also a musical genius, but of a totally different type than Mozart. He broke away from drawing room music, similar to Mozart's piano concerto #8, to epic expressive music full of pathos and emotion.

Mozart's symphony no 41, the Jupiter, written in 1788 is a sort of precursor to the type of music which Beethoven wrote, starting with his breakout work, The Eroica Symphony #3 of 1803. Mozart's untimely death in 1791 at age 35 prevented what would have been a colossal hook up of two of classical music's greatest geniuses. What might have been, if the two had linked up?
Lakey

The interface of Haydn, Beethoven and Mozart resounds to this day.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Heidrun Beer's Easter Message - A Theory of Life

I watched Going Clear two days ago. I was struck most by Jason Beghe as I too had his experience of becoming but a 'dot' lost inside a swarm as a result of being steered off my 'own' vector to solve problems which weren't Mine.

I had seen a lot of Gibney's compiled clips before in separate places other than in the finished film's final cut.

I guess I had a revelation last month that we are badly lost in a homogeny or at least the qlippoth left behind. In the film LRH states in the interview where he has red flowers behind him...the same. For 60 yrs the effort has been to separate out the lines and return the true purpose and goals to Each person. This is a Clearing after a sort. Researching earlier times I had failed at my own purposes to do this, some things became apparent about ending veered off into some soup.. Not all peoples are of the same lines nor are they compliled exactly alike. It is an error to shift soneone off his true line which has other purposes...and into identifying as having come down a false path. ( for him)

In sometimes regarding the meter, I find lifetimes where I felt naturally stratospheres clearer than some others. In those I detected a condition where that genetics had fewer theta lines compiled onto it. I have thought about this a lot. Just a couple of weeks ago I had an awareness that our civilization on earth has been restarted a couple of times. It is not always seeded with the exact same aberrants. Some beings just hang around as Watchers of woods and streams. This...until the next startup comes around and the evolution of human life eventually sucks them back down as they are at least slightly formatted. I don't think everyone has the same complete 'sets' of additional lines added to them. A few are more identified as the Atman because for so long there were no people anywhere.

My experience of a startling phenomenon which happened as a result of an ancient ritual is that karma is recorded in some of these add ons as part of the mind. Even CBR states some folks who might be emissaries here don't have everything because they missed the civilization programming.
It is interesting at Easter that we are talking about The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. The harm we do to ourselves as self-punishments go on automatic. At a lower level we don't have a choice but to see our sins mirrored back to us. On a higher level we may have agreed. But, I sometimes remind myself that at some level, the compulsion to be an Individual is a games condition. And my concept of myself as an individual may be a super-identification with definite packages held in continuum thru time.

From The Wisdom of the Vedas by J.C. Chatterji

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B43TSQGtw3s6SUhLQWxGMHJ0VEk/edit?usp=docslist_api
streaming pages. no download necessary
https://archive.org/stream/wisdomofhinduswi00browrich#page/n23/mode/1up

Thanks for the post, Hats! It's been several years, since I have read a classic Hats post. This one seems too deep for me to make a meaningful comment, especially since I haven't yet looked at your references. However, there is one thing that really caught my eye and that is your very last sentence. This sentence is sort of a mathematical construct which stood out as being interesting to me, because of the mathematical way your last sentence is constructed.

To wit, ...."And my concept of myself as an individual.... It seems to me that if someone or something is using the word "my", that defines them immediately as an individual. In fact that might signal the creation of an individual, the point at which some sort of entity conceives the possibility of "my". Just conceiving the concept "my" seems to bring along with it possession of at least one thing. If an entity is capable of possessing one thing then it follows that it may possess more than one thing and from that might come various concepts. The concept of ownership could result and that would subdivide into exclusive ownership and/or shared ownership. Shared ownership would bring in the concept of "others". The concept of "others" would bring in the concept of allies and love as well as the concept of opponents and hate.

The concept of "myself" would then be a natural expansion arising from the key word of "my". In this context, the possessions one has would determines the traits one is known by and the traits themselves would determine the meaning of "myself". In such a set up, the concept of each of us being individuals would be formed along these lines.

Pursuing this model further, individuality would arise from the concept of the word "my" which in turn arises from the concept of possession. This is one way a universe could roll out for each and every individual in that universe, sort of like a roll of dice from a dice cup in a casino.

Here is the kicker, the main point I will be making. Once this type of computation rolls out, there is no rulebook, handbook or User's Manual for individuals to follow on how to go about their existence in this universe. When individuals encounter other individuals, they go in blind, not really knowing how to handle one another. Individuals of like mind may enhance one another and develop love or may fight each other and develop hate. Almost always, lovers or friends will have disagreements which arise unexpectedly. These either get resolved or cause a break up. Enemies may someday unite or they may continue as enemies.

In all models of a universe or society of beings, no Users' Manual is extant. Eventually, the societies of beings, themselves attempt to provide a User's manual. Some of these have merit and some don't. The worst thing which can happen and usually does happen is that when two or more User's Manuals are in conflict with one another, violent wars and destruction occur. A perfect example would be the User's Manual of Islam conflicting with the User's Manual of the Christian Bible. Here we get the Crusades, battles and killing waged by two or more sides believing that their User's Manual is superior.

Well, Hats, thats my effort to comment on your post. I don't know if I am on point or way off the mark. I suspect it is the latter but I gave it my best shot.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

The interface of Haydn, Beethoven and Mozart resounds to this day.

Correct, but if the three of them could have collaborated together in the early 1800's, society would now be in possession of a considerable amount of incredible music which never saw the light of day because of Mozarts untimely death.
Lakey

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

Correct, but if the three of them could have collaborated together in the early 1800's, society would now be in possession of a considerable amount of incredible music which never saw the light of day because of Mozarts untimely death.
Lakey

Haydn was the common factor. But he and Mozart were both dead before Beethoven hit his full stride. I can't help but wonder what Mozart might have done. Early death is sadly too common among artists.

 

[Leon-2]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Wow Lakey - Thank you for that. Bruno Walter has been my all time favourite conductor since way back - heck, 1967 is when I first heard the recordings of the Beethoven symphonies that Walter made with the Columbia Orchestra. For me they have always been the definitive Bethoven performances and in my head I have forever compared every other conductor's attempts to his and none have come close. I know I shouldn't do that but I do it. can't help it. And here with the Mozart too - he makes every single note get its full value. Like his musical TR-1 is so perfectly in. Awesome.


Thanks very much indeed. I still regularly listen to that Bussoni piece you posted some years back. Beautiful music.

 

[Leon-2]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

And you know, I love Bruno Walter so much but I don't have a single CD of his on my shelf. How about that. I'll have to get some.

There was a conductor in the '60s - Ferenc Fritsai or something like that. His Mozart renditions were quite stunning. Very racey. very exciting. I loved his work too.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I am only familiar by the fact that Hollywood movie scores are always incorporating the classics.

I dropped out of all this...but I recalled these books you might find interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0801825482 Arcana Mundi
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0486232115 sacred magic of abramelin the Mage
There is another translation that is better here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/08925...SY200_QL40&dpPl=1&dpID=51YplwQ9KeL&ref=plSrch

I had both to compare. Do not recall now if Abramelin had a Jewish Kabbalah basis.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0831400447 the structure of magic.


I dropped out, found it all useless and awful as I don't feel that techniques do anything and also as I went deeper I found the 'forces' to be less than 'divine' or loving. Chalk it up to my Christianity....but each must find a path on there own.... The first relates to the history of these things and it's relation to gaining metaphysical results....The second book is more intense as to specific aims closer to iamblichus although not identical and is tangentially related to qabalah, is Neoplatonic and since christians most likely modified the text has those tones as well although faint. The third has to do with nlp as a form of magic....

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

Haydn was the common factor. But he and Mozart were both dead before Beethoven hit his full stride. I can't help but wonder what Mozart might have done. Early death is sadly too common among artists.

Not quite right on one point, Haydn's dates were 1732 to 1809. Beethoven brought out his 3rd symphony in 1803 and Haydn was at the first performance, though he was 71. Haydn probably also heard Beethoven's 5th and 6th Symphonies as well. From what I read, Haydn was a bit resistive to Beethoven's new approach to music, first displayed in Beethoven's Eroica Symphony.

When Beethoven arrived in Vienna in 1792 originally to study with Mozart who had just recently died, I believe Haydn was still in England putting on his second series of English Symphonies. Haydn was 60 at the time and was still going strong. By composing symphonies in England and conducting them himself for several years, Haydn became quite rich and independently wealthy. He no longer needed a patron. Returning to Vienna, he did serve as Beethoven's teacher for a while but the two were not a good fit. Beethoven also studied with Salieri, the villain in "Amadeus", the academy award winning movie of the mid 1980's.

Beethoven was in his twenties and Haydn was approaching 70, quite old for the 18th century but there wasn't enough chemistry between them to cement the relationship although when Haydn was terminally ill in 1809, Beethoven showed great concern and said to the Viennese public that the greatest living composer was dying. Actually by 1809, Beethoven was the greatest living composer, Haydn though a great composer was probably #2 although at that time, Mozart's protege Johann Hummel was briefly regarded as number #1 or number #2. Hummel was a hell of a good composer, highly regarded for maybe 10 years but then becoming almost totally forgotten. Listen to his works on youtube; he was right up there with Haydn and most of the other greats. It is amazing that a composer this great is now just an answer to trivia questions.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Wow Lakey - Thank you for that. Bruno Walter has been my all time favourite conductor since way back - heck, 1967 is when I first heard the recordings of the Beethoven symphonies that Walter made with the Columbia Orchestra. For me they have always been the definitive Bethoven performances and in my head I have forever compared every other conductor's attempts to his and none have come close. I know I shouldn't do that but I do it. can't help it. And here with the Mozart too - he makes every single note get its full value. Like his musical TR-1 is so perfectly in. Awesome. I still regularly listen to that Bussoni piece you posted some years back. Beautiful music.

Wow, what a pleasant surprise to hear from you again, Leon!! I'll take credit for the Busoni tip but Terril Park should get the credit for showcasing various conductors. Well, Leon and Hatsheput are two of our finest posters ever on the Apollo thread and they both have been gone for years and have now showed up again. I will mention a few of the others who i thought were among our best ever. We had Mark A. Baker, Roger B. Ted, and Faceinthecrowd. Several of these people dropped off because they did not like my posts for various reasons. As I understand it, the two main reasons were that they felt that often my posts were not accurate and second they felt that I was harming people's security by giving out too many names and details which compromised people's security and privacy. I've worked to correct those flaws but I am afraid that is not sufficient to get back in good graces with most of those people.

Anyway, I have the capacity to describe someone as a great poster even though I may not agree with them and/or they don't like me. If you learn things and/or are entertained repeatedly by the writings of someone, you can like their posts even if they don't like you. That's my take on the matter.