The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Tchaikovsky Neets Mozart

In discussing Russian music with a friend, I recalled that I learned surprisingly that Tschaikovsky was a great admirer of Mozart. From their styles and backgrounds, this would not be intuitively expected. Also, Tchaikovsky even wrote a tribute piece to Mozart called Mozartiana. This piece is very interesting because it blends the styles from a two time periods 100 years removed and two nations thousands of miles removed. Two great cultures, two time periods, on interesting blend, It is quite an interesting cocktail, one you would probably not drink at Margeritaville but you might drink this cocktail while dining in a fine Viennese or Russian restaurant. I give you Mozartiana by Pyotr Tchaikovsky:

OMG. I learned something new, there is more to this work than I thought. First is the portion that I knew about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2qN2XjcmfE

Next, is a different section which I was not familiar with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx2A9IVJh3M

Lakey

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Tchaikovsky Neets Mozart

In discussing Russian music with a friend, I recalled that I learned surprisingly that Tschaikovsky was a great admirer of Mozart. From their styles and backgrounds, this would not be intuitively expected. Also, Tchaikovsky even wrote a tribute piece to Mozart called Mozartiana. This piece is very interesting because it blends the styles from a two time periods 100 years removed and two nations thousands of miles removed. Two great cultures, two time periods, on interesting blend, It is quite an interesting cocktail, one you would probably not drink at Margeritaville but you might drink this cocktail while dining in a fine Viennese or Russian restaurant. I give you Mozartiana by Pyotr Tchaikovsky:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx2A9IVJh3M

Lakey

Felix Mendelssohn was responsible for the resurgence of J S Bach in the 1830s with the revival of the Mass in bminor and St Matthew's Passion. This is even more of a stylistic contradiction than Tchaikovsky v Mozart. In matters of form the Romantics followed the classics. Programme music being the exception.

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

Not quite right on one point, Haydn's dates were 1732 to 1809. Beethoven brought out his 3rd symphony in 1803 and Haydn was at the first performance, though he was 71. Haydn probably also heard Beethoven's 5th and 6th Symphonies as well. From what I read, Haydn was a bit resistive to Beethoven's new approach to music, first displayed in Beethoven's Eroica Symphony.

When Beethoven arrived in Vienna in 1792 originally to study with Mozart who had just recently died, I believe Haydn was still in England putting on his second series of English Symphonies. Haydn was 60 at the time and was still going strong. By composing symphonies in England and conducting them himself for several years, Haydn became quite rich and independently wealthy. He no longer needed a patron. Returning to Vienna, he did serve as Beethoven's teacher for a while but the two were not a good fit. Beethoven also studied with Salieri, the villain in "Amadeus", the academy award winning movie of the mid 1980's.

Beethoven was in his twenties and Haydn was approaching 70, quite old for the 18th century but there wasn't enough chemistry between them to cement the relationship although when Haydn was terminally ill in 1809, Beethoven showed great concern and said to the Viennese public that the greatest living composer was dying. Actually by 1809, Beethoven was the greatest living composer, Haydn though a great composer was probably #2 although at that time, Mozart's protege Johann Hummel was briefly regarded as number #1 or number #2. Hummel was a hell of a good composer, highly regarded for maybe 10 years but then becoming almost totally forgotten. Listen to his works on youtube; he was right up there with Haydn and most of the other greats. It is amazing that a composer this great is now just an answer to trivia questions.
Lakey

Beethoven's 3rd Symphony is often looked at as the beginning of the Romantic Era. Haydn was indeed reluctant. I confess a bias toward late Beethoven. Symphonies 7 & 9, the late quartets and the late piano sonatas are my favorites. They would have blown Haydn's mind. I'm also a big Haydn fan. Oh shit, Mozart,too.
These guys absolutely defined symphony and string quartet, my two favorite forms.

 

[lkwdblds]

More posting from Mama

Big New Post from Mama, Lots of Nostalgia from the Old Days!!


Your post takes me back to my home, when I was a kid.

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/CarmeloOrchards/home_zps7d58b38f.jpg


After a day on two hundred acres with cattle, chickens, pears, apricots, cherries, walnuts, and all the barns, tractors, trucks, and equipment necessary to grow, maintain, and harvest all that; not to mention a hill to hike and a river to swim in, and the most beautiful beach in the world seven miles away....

There was nothing that compared to putting my feet up on the wood burning cook stove and listening to "Have Gun, Will Travel" and "Gunsmoke"

Have Gun, Will Travel:

https://youtu.be/NWXld3F6JQE

Gunsmoke:

https://youtu.be/y2Dj8mJ88aM



and, how could we forget:

Edgar and Charlie

https://youtu.be/h--kfyx8Mtc

Fibber McGee and Molly

http://youtu.be/u3rC7_qeYzM

Lum and Abner

https://youtu.be/bO4rPxNYX94

Amos and Andy

https://youtu.be/16vmYLXKdn8

Our Miss Brooks

https://youtu.be/C9ETrHxvR4E


and who can forget Fred Allen and that other guy?

https://youtu.be/rNCY05lbRps

now it's time for a word from our sponsor

https://youtu.be/f2QuAzBuY4c

back to our show

https://youtu.be/vvrPnsgmNbQ
Attachments area
Preview YouTube video Have Gun, Will Travel "Comanche" 1/3

Have Gun, Will Travel "Comanche" 1/3
Preview YouTube video Gunsmoke 53-03-21 Ep. 48 Pussy Cats (Radio)

Gunsmoke 53-03-21 Ep. 48 Pussy Cats (Radio)
Preview YouTube video Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy (4-18-43) Guest: Ronald Colman (HQ) Old Time Radio Comedy

Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy (4-18-43) Guest: Ronald Colman (HQ) Old Time Radio Comedy
Preview YouTube video Fibber McGee & Molly radio show 3/5/40 Cleaning the Hall Closet

Fibber McGee & Molly radio show 3/5/40 Cleaning the Hall Closet
Preview YouTube video Grandpap's talking dog story

Grandpap's talking dog story
Preview YouTube video The Amos n Andy Show 1929 radio - Presidential Election

The Amos n Andy Show 1929 radio - Presidential Election
Preview YouTube video Our Miss Brooks radio show 3/5/50 Letter from the Education Board

Our Miss Brooks radio show 3/5/50 Letter from the Education Board
Preview YouTube video Jack Benny radio show 2/5/39 Jack Challenges Fred Allen to a Boxing Match

Jack Benny radio show 2/5/39 Jack Challenges Fred Allen to a Boxing Match
Preview YouTube video LSMFT (Sung By Rochester)

LSMFT (Sung By Rochester)
Preview YouTube video Jack Benny-Mel Blanc

Jack Benny-Mel Blanc.

What a great ride down Memory Lane. Thank you so much Mama!!
Lakey for Mama

 

[SPsince83]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

An interesting exercise is to listen to the late Beethoven quartets in order and then jump forward a century to the Bartok quartets. Illuminating. Try to find the performances by the Guarneri Quartet.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

Beethoven's 3rd Symphony is often looked at as the beginning of the Romantic Era. Haydn was indeed reluctant. I confess a bias toward late Beethoven. Symphonies 7 & 9, the late quartets and the late piano sonatas are my favorites. They would have blown Haydn's mind. I'm also a big Haydn fan. Oh shit, Mozart,too.
These guys absolutely defined symphony and string quartet, my two favorite forms.

My favorite of all his symphonies is the 6th, the Pastoral, next I like the 5th, then the 7th, then the 3rd. To me, the 9th is too long and too bombastic for repeated listening. You hear the whole symphony once once and you are overwhelmed with the great music, the Choral section, the idea of seeking joy in this universe and all of that and then one dose is good for two or three years. I won't listen to it again for at least two years. I guess it takes my mind several years to process the effect of each listening. Next time I hear, I hear it in a new unit of time and the process repeats.

BTW SPs, are you familiar with Beethoven's Choral Fantasy as opposed to Beethoven's Choral Symphony which we are discussing? The Choral Fantasy was written by a much younger Beethoven, age 38. in late 2008. An aged Haydn was still living but probably too fragile or ill to actually attend a performance. For those who enjoy the Choral Symphony but find it to large and bombastic to hear frequently, I offer Beethoven's Choral Fantasy. It features not only the full orchestra and Chorus of the 9th symphony but also features a solo pianist as well! Not only that but the theme which the Chorus sings is quite similar to the main theme sung in the choral part of the 9th symphony.

The great opera composer Rossini is quoted as saying, "Beethoven, I take once a week, Haydn 3 times a week but Mozart, I listen to every day". Those are exactly my sentiments. It is not that Beethoven is a less talented composer than the other two, quite the contrary, it is because if you really try and fully listen to his music with all of your attention on it, it is a demanding experience which can be very emotionally taxingl and energy consuming. Many Beethoven masterpieces require a huge commitment from a serious listener to really hear them for what they are. Once in a while, I will need that type of music, perhaps in a moment of great sorrow or a moment of great joy I think that is why his Pastoral Symphony #6 is my favorite among his works. That one I could hear every day and it would always be extremely enjoyable.

Anyway, Beethoven's Choral Fantasy sort of gives one the best of both worlds, it gives much of what the 9th symphony gives in entertainment value and yet can be heard again without a long wait even though emotionally it still has quite a good kick. Check it out and see what you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIGtWjlHemg

Lakey

 

[SPsince83]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

My favorite of all his symphonies is the 6th, the Pastoral, next I like the 5th, then the 7th, then the 3rd. To me, the 9th is too long and too bombastic for repeated listening. Year here the whole symphony once, you are overwhelmed with the great music, the Choral section, the idea of seeking joy in this universe and all of that and then one dose is good for two or three years. I won't listen to it again for at least two years, maybe 4 or 5 years. I guess it takes my mind several years to process the effect of each listening. Next time I hear,I hear it in a new unit of time and the process repeats.

BTW SPs, are you familiar with Beethoven's Choral Fantasy as opposed to Beethoven's Choral Symphony which we are discussing? The Choral Fantasy was written by a much younger Beethoven, age 38. in late 2008. An aged Haydn was still living but probably too fragile or ill to actually attend a performance. For those who enjoy the Choral Symphony but find it to large and bombastic to hear frequently, I offer Beethoven's Choral Fantasy. It features not only the full orchestra and Chorus of the 9th symphony but also features a solo pianist as well! Not only that but the theme which the Chorus sings is quite similar to the main theme sung in the choral part of the 9th symphony.

The great opera composer Rossini is quoted as saying, Beethoven, I take once a week, Haydn 3 times a week but Mozart, I listen to every day. those are exactly my sentiments. It is not that Beethoven is a less talented composer than the other two, quite the contrary, it is because if you really try and fully listen to his music with all of your attention on it, it is a demanding experience which can be very emotional and energy consuming. Many Beethoven masterpieces require a huge commitment from a serious listener to really hear them for what they are. I think that is why his Pastoral Symphony #6 is my favorite among his works. That one I could hear every day and it would always be enjoyable.

Anyway, Beethoven's Choral Fantasy sort of gives one the best of both worlds, it gives much of what the 9th symphony gives in entertainment value and yet can be heard again without a long wait even though emotionally it still has quite a good kick. Check it out and see what you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIGtWjlHemg

Lakey

Beethoven is certainly the most demanding. It's exactly that quality that elevates him in my opinion. My top ten would include these 3 plus Bach, Bartok, Vivaldi, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky and Ives. Notable in absence is Brahms. Beethoven would be on top and the others in no particular order. My judgments here are strictly aesthetic opinion and not technical. For tech, it has to be Bach. The well-tempered scale may be the single most important change in musical history.

 

[Terril park]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

An interesting exercise is to listen to the late Beethoven quartets in order and then jump forward a century to the Bartok quartets. Illuminating. Try to find the performances by the Guarneri Quartet.

Late Beethoven by the Busch Quartet is mine and many others fave.

The Belcea quartet are possibly their equal and in modern sound.

 

[SPsince83]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Late Beethoven by the Busch Quartet is mine and many others fave.

The Belcea quartet are possibly their equal and in modern sound.

I haven't kept up with who's who in classical music performance. My favorites tend to be from the mid 60s thru the mid 90s.

 

[Terril park]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Wow Lakey - Thank you for that. Bruno Walter has been my all time favourite conductor since way back - heck, 1967 is when I first heard the recordings of the Beethoven symphonies that Walter made with the Columbia Orchestra. For me they have always been the definitive Bethoven performances and in my head I have forever compared every other conductor's attempts to his and none have come close. I know I shouldn't do that but I do it. can't help it. And here with the Mozart too - he makes every single note get its full value. Like his musical TR-1 is so perfectly in. Awesome.


Thanks very much indeed. I still regularly listen to that Bussoni piece you posted some years back. Beautiful music.

For some reason the only beethoven under Walter I heard was
symphony 8 which is my favorite version. Been catching up on U-tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H8yMnE9d2g

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Perfection on a Small Scale

Beethoven is certainly the most demanding. It's exactly that quality that elevates him in my opinion. My top ten would include these 3 plus Bach, Bartok, Vivaldi, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky and Ives. Notable in absence is Brahms. Beethoven would be on top and the others in no particular order. My judgments here are strictly aesthetic opinion and not technical. For tech, it has to be Bach. The well-tempered scale may be the single most important change in musical history.

Excellent post, I really appreciate your remarks, they are very stimulating and food for thought. Your top ten list is also very interesting, all the chosen composers are quite notable, except for Ives. I don't know hardly anything about him. On your say so, I will check him out. Thanks for the tip.

The great concert pianist Mitsuku Ochida plays both Mozart and Beethoven, also Chopin and many other composers. She seemed to be the type of soul who gravitated to Mozart. In an interview she says that Mozart is conversational while Beethoven is Confrontational. I agree!! As to which composer is better, it is all a matter of taste and opinion. A lot of people don't like Mozart's music and think of it as cartoon music or something sounding like what the neighborhood ice cream truck played back in the old days when "Good Humor" and "Eskimoe Pie" trucks patrolled the city streets.

Once Beethoven hit his stride, Mozart's type of music began becoming passe'. Haydn, Hummel and a few diehards fought off Beethoven for a short time but in maybe 5 to 10 years, Beethoven's style of music took over. Mozart was one of the few pre Beethoven classical composers who was still played. Probably the reason was because of his early fame as a child prodigy, for the workmanship and taste inherent in his works. and also the fact that he wrote 27 operas in his meager 35 year lifespan and about 5 or 6 of those have been in the top tier of operas ever since. Also Mozart wrote 27 piano concertos of which over 20 are regarded as supreme masterpieces.. Beethoven wrote only 1 opera, Fidelio, which never has been in the standard opera repertoire and and only 5 piano concertos, only 2 or 3 of which are of top quality. Thus, on the basis of his operas and his taste and craftsmanship, Mozart retained a place in the history of 19th century and early 20th century music.

On a non operatic program, Mozart almost never would be the featured composer but one of his pleasant works such as an overture or a piece of chamber music would be on the early part of a program featuring Beethoven. This state of affairs continued on through the 1960's. Somehow, with the computer age, Mozart began to be played more. Some studies indicated that babies who regularly heard Mozart regularly might end up smarter than average babies particularly in math skills. This theory was accepted as science for a while but then the concept was fought. A real breakthrough came with the 1986 movie, Amadeus, about Mozart which won the Academy Award for best picture. It gave Mozart a lot of recognition with the general public.

Someone such as Einstein discovered Mozart and also J.S. Bach. He liked to play them in live performances and listen to them when he was working on math and physics problems. Einstein described the Music of Mozart as being honest. He thought that Mozart didn't actually compose in the traditional sense of the word. He thought that his music already existed as a whole in the Universe and Mozart was able to see it and retrieve it into his mind. A few composers could do things like that from time to time but with Mozart and probably Bach, they had an ability to do it on a regular basis.

You wouldn't see Einstein listening to Beethoven's 9th while trying to wrestle with the concept of relativity. If he tried that he would be unable to concentrate on solving his problem!

Now Mozart never wrote anything like Beethoven's 9th and I don;t even think he had the ability to write anything like that. The closest he came to that, in my opinion. are some choral scenes in his last opera, The Magic Flute. He certainly had the talent to write a Beethoven's 9th but he didn't have a fire burning inside him which would make him want to write such a piece. Beethoven had that fire in him, that was who he was. He cut is teeth on Mozart and Haydn type music and then as soon as he was able, at about age 33, he turned all of classical music in a new direction. In a straw vote, I am pretty sure Beethoven would be the most popular composer by quite a margin. Mozart would be down the list somewhere, probably in the top ten and Haydn, less well known by the public than Mozart, might come in somewhere between 15th and 20th - just guessing!
Lakey

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: Heidrun Beer's Easter Message - A Theory of Life

Thanks for the post, Hats! It's been several years, since I have read a classic Hats post. This one seems too deep for me to make a meaningful comment, especially since I haven't yet looked at your references. However, there is one thing that really caught my eye and that is your very last sentence. This sentence is sort of a mathematical construct which stood out as being interesting to me, because of the mathematical way your last sentence is constructed.

...........

The concept of "myself" would then be a natural expansion arising from the key word of "my". In this context, the possessions one has would determines the traits one is known by and the traits themselves would determine the meaning of "myself". In such a set up, the concept of each of us being individuals would be formed along these lines.

..........

Lakey

Thanks for this reply Lakey

Right on the nose you are, in my book. I have been doing some alchemical experiments I found. These are contemplative and having to do with opposites dramatizations and archetypes merging. I sometimes slip between the cracks and find myself without any definition, not identified with any vector. To me, it is the what the Tibetans have described as the Atman. A point of no point. I ask myself if I am still an 'individual' without ANY point of identification. Sometimes this 'no point' scares me....and I feel I might be submarined by forces I should remember to beware of....but have all but forgotten. This 'no point' used to be seem as a 'power' point when I had these experiences at 19 doing spacation out of The Creation of Human Ability.
It is funny that I have been looking into something now....mostly written about by the Germans and Greeks, yet the momentary slips between the cracks I am identifying with concepts from the far East.

I find my past identities are packages. Some were denser than others. As I try the 'solve & coagula' I find I am NOT those packages either. I only identified with them. I am seeming to remember being on this path before as the new video lecture topics found on YT since 2013 are finally sharing the methods. Keeping everything hidden has done mankind no good, especially as so many can no longer read and write. We are going into decline.

I think the first half of this vid is enlightening and simplifying

Gnosis - The Great Work of Alchemy | Documentary: https://youtu.be/flOK86Pnr9Q

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

yes forces...

notions of will and causality are tied into western views of consciousness. There is no hierarchization in natural forces or a concept of theta lines. Forces are without allegiances, at least natural forces. The only allegiance of fire is to fire etc. there is no will or cause as a concept in fire itself; it's causing is just a side effect or accident of being what it is. Forces do cause things in various ways that they combine or pressurize a situation but they are not Cartesian 'causes' as are 'cause' concepts such as OT...that is they don't care about causing and might not know they cause. Even if they are aware.... If we limit the concept of forces to those metaphysical forces that are thinking things like an I then we are dealing in wills. Ultimately wills, consciousnesses and I's are limited as forces to the extent they do or do not have power. So ultimately power is at the crux. I am curious how power is constructed since ultimately this involves repression and control. A huge question in the arena of consciousness theories is how repression can be avoided in the competition of wills that appears. Unless the divine is love and unless we could define the divine then not sure how battles are avoided. Anyway these are my tentative thoughts....how does theurgy resolve this, how does it avoid being a grasp for power? there is a book on the history of magic that really discusses a lot of this. Will try and find it.

Getting the goal of the aspect in relationship to oneself and tracing it back to its own concept of Highest good takes the mass out of it. That is, if it is weighing upon you. It turns it back into pure Spirit and merges with the Divine, the sublime. And if our tangible and physical worlds are actually mirroring us, and that mirror is co stituted of Divine essence, then the use of theurgy is to nudge everything to 'remember who it is and where it came from'. Our parents used to do that too.

The Wiccans and simple peasants of the dark ages used the same concepts but were considered primitives. Somehow reading the underlying fundamentals laid out by Plotinus or Iamblichus or theurgy makes it legit or sensible to me. Duh.

If we can get all the life essences entranced into being our eyeball or our hamstring or executing a function to connect arteries as in New Era Dianetics....what's the dif? I look at the transcript from the Targ tape I posted a while back and I have to think that there maybe IS a consolidated effort to keep the solidity of the playing field. To keep it in amnesia about the fact that it is Divine essence too. Getting its highest good purpose re-realized (Truth) washes away the degredation.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Heidrun Beer's Easter Message - A Theory of Life

Thanks for this reply Lakey

Right on the nose you are, in my book. I have been doing some alchemical experiments I found. These are contemplative and having to do with opposites dramatizations and archetypes merging. I sometimes slip between the cracks and find myself without any definition, not identified with any vector. To me, it is the what the Tibetans have described as the Atman. A point of no point. I ask myself if I am still an 'individual' without ANY point of identification. Sometimes this 'no point' scares me....and I feel I might be submarined by forces I should remember to beware of....but have all but forgotten. This 'no point' used to be seem as a 'power' point when I had these experiences at 19 doing spacation out of The Creation of Human Ability.
It is funny that I have been looking into something now....mostly written about by the Germans and Greeks, yet the momentary slips between the cracks I am identifying with concepts from the far East.

I find my past identities are packages. Some were denser than others. As I try the 'solve & coagula' I find I am NOT those packages either. I only identified with them. I am seeming to remember being on this path before as the new video lecture topics found on YT since 2013 are finally sharing the methods. Keeping everything hidden has done mankind no good, especially as so many can no longer read and write. We are going into decline.

Wow Hats, thanks for letting me know that I was on the right track commenting on your previous post. Your comments about being in a "no point" really impinged on me. If I was on a meter, undoubtedly the Tome Arm would have dropped big. I saw for the first time that I have contemplated that thought myself but never in this life.

The Red Sea parted a little bit for me and I actually have an answer for you. This comes out almost like automatic writing, I am not thinking about this but just giving you info pouring through me. My message is that once you have been an individual, you don't lose that when you fall into a "no point". I would go to the bank on that one, I told it to you and I feel great and have no second thoughts.

It seems that once an entity individualizes, a hard and fast rule is that it is very difficult, almost impossible, to "un-unindividualize". Well, I have a new proviso to that which is that once an entity indiviualizes and encounters and mingles with at least one other entity then for that which has individualized, it is almost impossible to unindividualize. If you individualize but get cold feet before encountering any other individual, I believe that you might be able to unindividualize without too much of a problem.

In the case where you have individualized and intermingled with another who has done the same, then when you seek to unindividualize, you have to get this other individual's agreement first. You can't do that on your own, unless you get the agreement of the other individual first because you are not in control of the other individual's decision making apparatus!!

These notable slogans which arise in some big independence movement tend to reflect this dilemma, i.e "United we stand, divided we fall." I am going to say more about this soon.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Heidrun Beer's Easter Message - A Theory of Life

Thanks for this reply Lakey

Right on the nose you are, in my book. I have been doing some alchemical experiments I found. These are contemplative and having to do with opposites dramatizations and archetypes merging. I sometimes slip between the cracks and find myself without any definition, not identified with any vector. To me, it is the what the Tibetans have described as the Atman. A point of no point. I ask myself if I am still an 'individual' without ANY point of identification. Sometimes this 'no point' scares me....and I feel I might be submarined by forces I should remember to beware of....but have all but forgotten. This 'no point' used to be seem as a 'power' point when I had these experiences at 19 doing spacation out of The Creation of Human Ability.
It is funny that I have been looking into something now....mostly written about by the Germans and Greeks, yet the momentary slips between the cracks I am identifying with concepts from the far East.

I find my past identities are packages. Some were denser than others. As I try the 'solve & coagula' I find I am NOT those packages either. I only identified with them. I am seeming to remember being on this path before as the new video lecture topics found on YT since 2013 are finally sharing the methods. Keeping everything hidden has done mankind no good, especially as so many can no longer read and write. We are going into decline.

I think the first half of this vid is enlightening and simplifying

Gnosis - The Great Work of Alchemy | Documentary: https://youtu.be/flOK86Pnr9Q

I want to make some further comments on this slipping between cracks and being without ANY point of identification and maybe being subjected to being submarined by forces which you should remember to beware of...

By slipping between the cracks, the only thing which I can come up with would be that time is quantized. In our universe time is not a continuous flow. Time in a universe can exist in both forms, continuous or quantized. Probably there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems. For this particular universe, the flow of time is quantized. One way of slipping through the cracks may be to fall between two quanta points of time or get out of synch with the agreed upon flow rate of time.

Since time and space are related phenomena and are spoken of as Spacetime in relativity theory, what is said for time may also be said for space.. Therefore if you slip through cracks in the Spacetime firmament, for all practical purposes you are operating outside of this universe and agreements made inside this universe would not necessarily apply.

They might apply fully or partially or they might not apply. I don't know which it is, maybe that might even vary entity to entity, being to being. My guess would be that for all entities they would not apply but that is just a guess.

Now, if you had identification and you slipped into one of these points, that identification would no longer be valid. It is pretty clear that anything you agreed to inside this universe would not apply outside of it. If it did apply outside this universe then the area outside this universe where your ID still applied could just be considered an extension of this universe. If you take that view, then your old ID would NOT apply in between the cracks. So with no ID what happens to you? Well you are basically in the same state you were BEFORE YOU DECIDED TO BE AN INDIVIDUA! There is a difference however, because now you are also in a different universe with different rules.

Being in a different Universe, why do you fear being submarined by unknown forces. You don't know any of the rules of this new universe. Is the native reaction to be leery and have fear? Probably not. First of all, with no body and no ID, how could anything hurt you. You could only be hurt if you agreed to be hurt. If you fear being submarined that would tend to reveal that you had been trusting somewhere in the past and had been betrayed but why worry about that when starting out new with no ID in a new universe? Be positive in approaching these "no points", since you have no ID, just figure that you can't be hurt. Make things happen the way you want. If the laws of the new universe fight you, pick up your old ID and get back in sync with your old universe.
Lakey

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: Heidrun Beer's Easter Message - A Theory of Life

I want to make some further comments on this slipping between cracks and being without ANY point of identification and maybe being subjected to being submarined by forces which you should remember to beware of...

By slipping between the cracks, the only thing which I can come up with would be that time is quantized. In our universe time is not a continuous flow. Time in a universe can exist in both forms, continuous or quantized. Probably there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems. For this particular universe, the flow of time is quantized. One way of slipping through the cracks may be to fall between two quanta points of time or get out of synch with the agreed upon flow rate of time.

Since time and space are related phenomena and are spoken of as Spacetime in relativity theory, what is said for time may also be said for space.. Therefore if you slip through cracks in the Spacetime firmament, for all practical purposes you are operating outside of this universe and agreements made inside this universe would not necessarily apply.

They might apply fully or partially or they might not apply. I don't know which it is, maybe that might even vary entity to entity, being to being. My guess would be that for all entities they would not apply but that is just a guess.

Now, if you had identification and you slipped into one of these points, that identification would no longer be valid. It is pretty clear that anything you agreed to inside this universe would not apply outside of it. If it did apply outside this universe then the area outside this universe where your ID still applied could just be considered an extension of this universe. If you take that view, then your old ID would NOT apply in between the cracks. So with no ID what happens to you? Well you are basically in the same state you were BEFORE YOU DECIDED TO BE AN INDIVIDUA! There is a difference however, because now you are also in a different universe with different rules.

Being in a different Universe, why do you fear being submarined by unknown forces. You don't know any of the rules of this new universe. Is the native reaction to be leery and have fear? Probably not. First of all, with no body and no ID, how could anything hurt you. You could only be hurt if you agreed to be hurt. If you fear being submarined that would tend to reveal that you had been trusting somewhere in the past and had been betrayed but why worry about that when starting out new with no ID in a new universe? Be positive in approaching these "no points", since you have no ID, just figure that you can't be hurt. Make things happen the way you want. If the laws of the new universe fight you, pick up your old ID and get back in sync with your old universe.
Lakey

Good points. And well taken. The worry is that NOW, as opposed to a past similar free state, I have lines on a very alive physical body. Big difference as far as practicing game options anew. I think that in my present state I still have a LOT of stuff attached to me. It might be like learning to swim with your Levis on. One is weighted down.

The slip between the cracks seems to be a temporary release from all timestreams and not just this one. I think the suspected menace comes from my 'other' side. That side that says ' Don't abolish the ego. It's the only safe solution to continuing your existence. Are you sure you don't want to continue....hmmmmm?' Possibly I feel that 'myself' has been callaborated upon and that those things that I possess as an individual might be misused.

Yesterday, I had another weird sensation surface as I was reading a brief bio of Pythagoras and reviewing the maps of the Aegean world. I experienced a plunge into matter....er, water, of some godlike being. Like in one of those Holy Grail stories where Arthur realizes that the 'secret' of the Grail is that he and the land are ONE.These once godlike beings were expulsed from another aeyther and impacted with such force into our world that they became enmeshed or particalized in the geography. Er...something like that ......I fail to put easily into words. Something inexplicable.

Therefore if you slip through cracks in the Spacetime firmament, for all practical purposes you are operating outside of this universe and agreements made inside this universe would not necessarily apply.

I think the universes are layered and sort of collapsed holographically upon each other. It's not all that cut and dried separationally.....not totally distinct timestreams. I think there is some bleeding one to another. Those remnant connecting lines are a bear.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Heidrun Beer's Easter Message - A Theory of Life

Good points. And well taken. The worry is that NOW, as opposed to a past similar free state, I have lines on a very alive physical body. Big difference as far as far as practicing games options anew. I think that in my present state I still have a lot of stuff attached to me. It might be lije learning to swim with your Levis on. One is weighted down.

I see your point. Well cleaning that stuff off of you is supposed to be what CoS is offering that is of such great value. Personally I have no interest in doing that any more. I did a lot of it over a 15 year period and at the time I felt I was getting something major out of it. Now, I don't feel that way anymore for whatever reason. One thing certain, I would never set foot inside a CoS Org to resume doing that stuff. Even if they offered to pay me money, I wouldn't take the offer, let alone pay big money to receive it.

At this point, I personally have no problems whatever with any stuff attached to me. I don't know why. Maybe I should give CoS credit. That has been my policy, to give the Devil its due. But I did not reach this state inside CoS. It is the 5 1/2 years on ESMB that has helped me not need NOTS type auditing. There are so many wise people here on ESMB, yourself and Maria included. I have become a fan of learning through chat board exchanges of ideas among people whose minds are relatively free of bias and who know a lot of things. It is that old saw, seek out those who are honest and real and who know things that I don't know. Don't waste a lot of time with people who don't have their acts together. Exchange with the top echelon people honestly and with sincerity and that will do more good for you than paying an enormous amount of money to move up some sort of arbitrary bridge. Learning through chat room dialogue might well be one of mankind's best educational tools, providing that the people whom you exchange ideas with are honest and don't have overly large egos.

The slip between the cracks seems to be a release from all timestreams and not just this one. I think the suspected menace comes from my dark side. That side that says ' Don't abolish the ego. It's the only safe solution to continuing yoyr existence. Are you sure you don't want to continue....hmmmmm?' Possibly I feel that 'myself' has been callaborated upon and that those things that I possess as an individual might be transferred to the universe of another.

Yesterday, I had another weird thought or memory surface as I was reading a brief bio of Pythagoras and reviewing the maps of the Aegean islands. I remembered a plunge into matter....er, water, of a godlike being. Like in one of those Holy Grail stories where Arthur realizes that the 'secret' that he and the land are ONE.These once godlike beings were expulsed from another aeyther and impacted with such force into our world that made became enmeshed in its terrain. Er...something like that which I fail to put into words. Some inexplicable worry.

I think the universes are layered and sort of collapsed holographically upon each other. It's not all that cut and dried separationally.....not totally distinct timestreams. I think there is some bleeding from one to another and those remnant connecting lines are a bear.

Maybe next time I briefly hit a Static point I could start humming " All of me....why not take all of me."

I have some reality on the concept of yours which I highlighted in red above. There was once an episode on old time TV, around the late 60's. I believe the program was the "Outer Limits" and the episode was called something like the "Talleywaggers". Anyway, all these people were in a airport. Time had frozen in that airport and they were moving amongst the objects and people in that airport who were virtually frozen in place. Actually, it turned out that the people and clocks weren't totally frozen but were moving at maybe 1/200th their normal speed.

This Tallywagger thing was kind of a munching device. It allowed the physical objects present in a particular moment in time to remain in place for a certain length of time after an event took place. After a certain length of time, the Tallywagger would approach the "set" objects and people, muncing and grinding up all the matter in its path and the live people knew it would soon arrive at the airport and munch the "set" so that it no longer existed The live people in the airport had to fly out of the frozen airport before the Tallywagger there or they would cease to exist. What a program that was!!! I never forgot it. The Twilight Zone also had several episodes with parallel universe. The concept of universe bleeding through as well.

I don't think any of this TV shows looked into the subject anywhere as deep as you are looking into. For example, there was no concept of a soul, all the people regarded themselves as just bodies with brains. Even so, that show gives me some feel for what you are talking about.
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Getting the goal of the aspect in relationship to oneself and tracing it back to its own concept of Highest good takes the mass out of it. That is, if it is weighing upon you. It turns it back into pure Spirit and merges with the Divine, the sublime. And if our tangible and physical worlds are actually mirroring us, and that mirror is co stituted of Divine essence, then the use of theurgy is to nudge everything to 'remember who it is and where it came from'. Our parents used to do that too.

The Wiccans and simple peasants of the dark ages used the same concepts but were considered primitives. Somehow reading the underlying fundamentals laid out by Plotinus or Iamblichus or theurgy makes it legit or sensible to me. Duh.

If we can get all the life essences entranced into being our eyeball or our hamstring or executing a function to connect arteries as in New Era Dianetics....what's the dif? I look at the transcript from the Targ tape I posted a while back and I have to think that there maybe IS a consolidated effort to keep the solidity of the playing field. To keep it in amnesia about the fact that it is Divine essence too. Getting its highest good purpose re-realized (Truth) washes away the degredation.

Plotinus is quite amazing to read, if you have read the Enneads.

 

[imSPecial]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I keep clicking on this thread hoping to read about the old days - aboard the Apollo - in 1973. Well, actually, I'm interested in the whole fleet. Maybe not quite 1973, either.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but it ain't the Apollo, nor 1973. Perhaps move to a thread about aspects, relationships, timeframes, etc?

Just saying.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I keep clicking on this thread hoping to read about the old days - aboard the Apollo - in 1973. Well, actually, I'm interested in the whole fleet. Maybe not quite 1973, either.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but it ain't the Apollo, nor 1973. Perhaps move to a thread about aspects, relationships, timeframes, etc?

Just saying.

Check out pages 1 to 5 of the thread for that info. Also, the other S.O. ships such as the Excalibur and Bolivar are discussed here as well. A large section about 1973 when I was in Treasury division was also discussed. Again and again, through out the history of the thread, now 5 1/2 years, life aboard the T.S.M.Y. Apollo comes up as well as mention of the year 1973. There is actually a search key you could use to find these pearls of wisdom.

One thing about the T.S.M.Y. Apollo is that in using the letters T.S.M.Y. Hubbard actually delivered in abundance. You see, the initials T.S.M. Y.. stood for Twin Screw Motor Yacht. Hubbard promised us a Twin Screw ship but he gave us more than that, he screwed me far more than two times! He screwed ne dozens of times, each time I got my $7 a week in Portugese Escudos, I was screwed. Each time he busted me and punished me I was screwed, etc. There is no doubt about it, he promised two screwings but he delivered many more than that. As regards screwing his crew members he definitely exchanged in abundance!!!
Lakey