The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Weirdly, reading this, I wondered if anything can be changed in a life, or if anything would really be better by doing so. Maybe everything that happens is for the best. Fate but better than fate. I'd not tell anyone what to do but for me, I'd embrace the way it all turned out in my life and if it could be repeated do it all exactly the same again and not look back. You seem pretty cool to me the way you turned out exactly!

I'm really astounded that if you could repeat things your would do it all exactly the same way again. For me, I would change about a dozen incidents if I knew then what I knew now and had it to do over again.. Two incidents, one in 1983 and one in 1987 would have saved my marriage and would have saved a house which we lost after a $65,000 CoS reg cycle. That is only the beginning. Various opportunities presented themselves to me and I chose not to act on them. In looking at them most of them are romance related. What the hell, I'll relate one such episode for anyone who is interested.

Fall of 1980, I am 40, still single but I met my future wife about 3 weeks before the incident occurred. My brother, Clarence Rockaway on ESMB, wanted desperately to go on a Sea Cruise. He loved cruise ships and knew everything about them and wanted desperately to go on a cruise so I booked a trip for the two of us to cruise the Mediterranean on an Italian vessel. We were having fun, they had casino blackjack, Atari Video games and we made some friends. The food was great and there was dancing in the evenings, etc.

We stopped at the port of Barbdos, an extremely interesting port. The populace are all Black people who speak with a thick British accent. Barbados has a flat bottomed "Party Boat" going out to a small nearby island where everyone can go swimming in the ocean. After we passed the 3 mile limit, they opened their bar with unlimited free rum and Coca Cola drinks for all cruise members. I went over to get drinks for me and my brother wearing swim trunks and a tank top. Sitting on the rail of the ship wearing bikinis were two very attractive young ladies. I got drinks for me and Clarence but before walking back to him, I asked the two beauties how they were doing. They told me to come over to them and they would answer my question.

They tell me that they are both 26 and live in Albany, New York. working as operators for the phone company. They tell me that they booked a trip to Barbados for one full month. They have rented a 2 bedroom, 2 bath villa right on the water and a Jeep to go exploring the Island. They state further that they were not told that all the citizens on Barbados are Black and they say that they don't date Black men. They were raised that way and there is no way they will ever date a Black man. The bottom lines was that they were looking for a White single man to share the final two weeks of their vacation.

They told me that I seemed like a nice guy and was nice looking and they would like me to stay with them for the remaining two weeks of their vacation. They said that they were ordering food from the finest restaurants and that they were bot extremely horny and both would sleep with me every night in a "menage au trois" arrangement and give me as much sex as I could handle, pay for all my food, put me up for free and supply the Jeep and gasoline to cruise the Island and have fun with me.

I was floored; to me this opportunity was unbelievable. I was always a bit on the shy side and never did anything particularly daring. I told them that I would love to do it by my ship sailed in 4 hours for the next port and that I had airline tickets back to L.A. in my suitcase. They said I could call the cruise lines and the airline and rearrange my itinerary to allow a 2 week lay over in Barbados. They pleaded with me to stay, literally begging me to stay with them. Finally I gave in but said I had to clear this with my brother. I went back to Clarence with his drink and told him the whole story. He responded to me in rage. "There is no way you are going to dump me and spend two weeks with those two sluts." Don't even think about it. Are you crazy?!! He was really ranting and raving and going ballistic. I gave in to him. I went back and told the two women that my brother was dead set against me staying. They were heart broken. They told me they had checked out all the other men on this cruise and there was no other single guys which appealed to them. I tried to give them good bye hugs and get their phone numbers but they were pissed at me. That was it! Clarence and I finished our cruise and flew back to Long Beach-Lakewood where we both worked for my Dad. When I got back, I continued dating my ex wife and we got married about 6 months later.

Of course, I never had an opportunity like that again! I think about that event from time to time only wishing that I could live those moments over again. If given that chance, I would tell my brother that I was staying with the two women, period. I was very virile at that age, I would have given the two of them all that they could handle. I feel that I really needed something like that in my life. It would have been good for me in one major sense. It would not have made my a better person or improved me mentally or spiritually but it would have given me more confidence in my manhood and my assertiveness. Any doubts that I might have had about my manhood would have been dispelled by that experience. I still would have married my wife 6 months later but those 2 weeks living in the lap of luxury with two 26 year old, clean cut, single and sexually starved women from Albany would have made me a better man, I am convinced of it. Living with the wife I did marry did not lead to any of that. She is a fine woman, very moral, very nice looking. very intelligent and a fabulous mother but as far as making me feel more manly or more assertive she did not do that in the least.

So there you have it, one major incident that I would have changed had I had a chance to relive it. There are about a dozen total such incidents in my life, over half of them related to my time in Scientology. The fact that Maria doesn't have any incidents she would change really surprises me. Well, live and learn.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yes, Westfalia was a state in Germany and several manufacturers of cars and trailers have a Westfalia model in their product line. Nowadays, Westfalia has been joined with the northern Rhineland, so now the state's name is North-Rhine-Westfalia. One of 16 German states. See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany

I miss the map of the Original Germany, unified under Bismark in 1871 and existing up until WWI ended in November, 1919.

Check out the map of the original Germany: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Germany#/media/File:Deutsches_Reich_1871-1918.png

Germany started out about 205,000 square miles, almost the exact size of today's France. After WWI they were reduced to about 186,000 square miles but after WWII, they were really reduced, all the way down to about 137,000 square miles, about the size of the state of Montana.

In going down from 205,000 sq mi to 137,000 sq mi, they lost 1/3 of their territory. Still they now have about 81,000,000 people. Montana has about 1,000,000 on land almost the exact same size. Even California with 38.000.000 people is sparsely populated when compared to Germany. California is about 15% bigger than Germany with less that 1/2 the population. For their size, Germany is a powerhouse country. Always has been, probably always will be.
Lakey

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I miss the map of the Original Germany, unified under Bismark in 1871 and existing up until WWI ended in November, 1919.

Check out the map of the original Germany: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Germany#/media/File:Deutsches_Reich_1871-1918.png

Yeah, Lakey, I know you love stats - the bigger, the better, right? :wink2:

But frankly: Why should I miss what I never had? I mean the re-unification of East- and West-Germany was kinda nice, but I would have been perfectly fine without the severe political, economical, cultural and financial problems that came from that.

Germany started out about 205,000 square miles, almost the exact size of today's France. After WWI the were reduced to about 186,000 square miles but after WWII, they were really reduced, all the way down to about 137,000 square miles, about the size of the state of Montana.

In going down from 205,000 sq mi to 137,000 sq mi, they lost 1/3 of their territory. Still they now have about 81,000 people. Montana has about 1,000,000 on land almost the exact same size. Even California with 38.000.000 people is sparsely populated when compared to Germany. California is about 15% bigger than Germany with less that 1/2 the population. For their size, Germany is a powerhouse country. Always has been, probably always will be.
Lakey

Yeah, 38.000.000 people in California vs. 81,000 people in Germany makes quite a difference, doesn't it? BTW, are you sure you've got your numbers right?


Anyway, I do see myself more as an Earthling than as a German. Maybe that's because I grew up and learned and worked with neighbors and colleagues from Greece, Italy, Turkey, Spain, India, several African countries, Poland, Hungary, Russia, Egypt and, all in all, too many countries than I'd be willing to list.

I speak only 3 languages fluently, German, English, and "about other people", but I know enough language-snippets to find a job or to order me a beer and a burger anywhere "on this planet". Oh, and I love it when the nice couple, who owns the Chinese Bistro in my town, invites me for a real, true, home-cooked Chinese meal.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I'm really astounded that if you could repeat things your would do it all exactly the same way again. For me, I would quite a few incidents if I knew then what I knew now and had it to do over again.. Two incidents, one in 1983 and one in 1987 would have save my marriage and would have save a house which we lost after a $65,000 CoS reg cycle. That is only the beginning. Various opportunities presented themselves to me and I chose not to act on them. In looking at them most of them are romance related. What the hell, I'll relate on such episode for anyone who is interested.

Fall of 1980, I am 40, still single but I met my future wife about 3 weeks before the incident occurred. My brother, Clarence Rockaway on ESMB, wanted desperately to go on a Sea Cruise. He love cruise ships and knew everything about them and wanted desperately to go on a Cruise so I booked a trip for the two of us to cruise the Mediterranian on an Italian vessel. We were having fun, they had casino blackjack and Atari Video games and we made some friends. The food was great and there was dancing in the evenings, etc.

We stopped at the port of Barbdos, an extremely interesting port. The populace are all Black people who speak with a thick British accent. Barbados has a flat bottomed "Party Boat" going out to a small nearby island where everyone could go swimming in the ocean. After we passed the 3 mile limit, the opened their bar with unlimited free rum and Coca Cola drinks for all cruise members. I went over to get drinks for me and my brother wearing a swim suit with a tank top. Sitting on the rail of the ship wearing bikinis were two very attractive young ladies. I got drinks for me and Clarence and before walking back to him, I asked the two beauties how they were doing. They told me to come over to them and they wouldl answer my question.

They tell me that they are both 26 and live in Albany, New York. working as operators for the phone company. They tell me that they booked a trip to Barbados for one full month. They have rented a 2 bedroom, 2 bath villa right on the water and a Jeep to go exploring the Island. I am intrigued and tell them to continue their story. They tell me that they were not told that all the citizens on Barbados are Black. The both tell me that they don't date Black men. They were raised that way and there is no way they will ever date a Black man. The bottom lines was that they were looking for a White single man to share the final two weeks of their vacation.

They told me that I seemed like a nice guy and was nice looking and they would like me to stay with them for the remaining two weeks of their vacation. They said that they were ordering food from the finest restaurants and that they were bot extremely horny and both would sleep with me every night in a "menage au twa" arrangement and give me as much sex as I could handle, pay for all my food, put me up for free and supply the Jeep and gasoline to cruise the Island and have fun.

I was floored, to me this opportunity was unbelievable. I was always a bit on the shy side and never did anything particularly daring. I told them that I would love to do it by my ship sailed in 4 hours for the next port and that I had airline tickets back to L.A. in my suitcase. They said I could call the cruise lines and the airline and rearrange my itinerary to allow a 2 week lay over in Barbados. They pleaded with me to stay, literally begging me to stay with them. Finally I gave in but said I had to clear this with my brother. I went back to Clarence with his drink and told him the whole story. He responded to me in rage. "There is no way you are going to dump me and spend too week with those two sluts." Don't even think about it. Are you crazy?!! He was really ranting and raving and going ballistic. I gave in to him. I went back and told the two women that my brother was dead set against me staying. They were heart broken. They told me they had checked out all the other men on this cruise and there was no other single guys which appealed to them. I tried to give them good bye hugs but they were pissed at me. That was it, Clarence and I finished our cruise and flew back to Long Beach-Lakewood where we both worked for my Dad. When I got back, I continue dating my ex wife and we got married about 6 months later.

Of course, I never had an opportunity like that again. I think about that event from time to time only wishing that I could live those moments over again. If given that chance, I would tell my brother that I was staying with the two women, period. I was very verile at that age, I would have given the two of them all that they could handle. I feel that I really needed something like that in my life. It would have been good for me in one major sense. It would not have made my a better person or improved me mentally or spiritually but it would have given me more confidence in my manhood and my assertiveness. Any doubts that I might have had about my manhood would have been dispelled but that experience. I still would have married my wife 6 months later but those 2 weeks living in the lap of luxury with two 26 year old, clean cut, single and sexually starved women from Albany would have made me a better man. I am convinced of it. Living with the wife I did marry did not lead to any of that. She is a fine woman, very moral, very nice looking. very intelligent and a fabulous mother but as far as making me feel more manly or more assertive she did not do that in the least.

So there you have it, one major incident that I would have changed had I had a chance to relive it. There are about a dozen total such incidents in my life, over half of them related to my time in Scientology. The fact that Maria doesn't have any incidents she would change really surprises me. Well, live and learn.Lakey

Thanks for sharing that Lakey. I think this is a thread in itself and I feel I want to share my story. It’s somewhat personal so I hope people aren’t easily embarrassed or that they think it’s too much pathos.

Just before the end of the last millennium (i.e. late 1999), I caught a train to a town about twenty miles away from the one I lived in at the time to do some shopping. I called in at a supermarket, was waiting in line and by the time I got to be served there were no customers behind me, so I got chatting to the girl serving me.

Sometimes you just click with people, and time just flew by though I don't remember how long we chatted for. She told me she was doing a course in deaf and dumb signing at a college further down the line so that she could work with people with hearing difficulties, and IIRC she was in her second year of that course. We ended up discussing different signings for well known words, places etc. and having fun doing it.

Anyway, time was starting to run short as I had to catch my train, which for some reason was the last one back that evening, so I bid her farewell and made my way back up the main street to the railway station to get home.

Never saw her again, ever. I kept on going back to that supermarket for bars of chocolate on the offchance she'd be working the same shift, but it didn’t happen. I hadn’t asked her her name, much less for her ‘phone number, so I had no way of contacting her.

Maybe it was meant to happen that way, I don't know. I think it's better not to dwell too much on the past though; learn what you can from the past and then try and put it behind you.

A woman I once worked with told me she had enough regrets about her life to sink a battleship, and that despite the fact she had a good job which she enjoyed (she didn't even need to work, because her husband earned good money) and was married with two sons she adored.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yeah, Lakey, I know you love stats - the bigger, the better, right? :wink2:

But frankly: Why should I miss what I never had? I mean the re-unification of East- and West-Germany was kinda nice, but I would have been perfectly fine without the severe political, economical, cultural and financial problems that came from that.



Yeah, 38.000.000 people in California vs. 81,000 people in Germany makes quite a difference, doesn't it? BTW, are you sure you've got your numbers right?

Yes, it was late at night, I meant to type 81.000.000 and left off 3 zeroes but fixed it this morning.

Anyway, I do see myself more as an Earthling than as a German. Maybe that's because I grew up and learned and worked with neighbors and colleagues from Greece, Italy, Turkey, Spain, India, several African countries, Poland, Hungary, Russia, Egypt and, all in all, too many countries than I'd be willing to list.

I speak only 3 languages fluently, German, English, and "about other people", but I know enough language-snippets to find a job or to order me a beer and a burger anywhere "on this planet". Oh, and I love it when the nice couple, who owns the Chinese Bistro in my town, invites me for a real, true, home-cooked Chinese meal.

Interesting to hear of your international background, that is an interesting facet of you which I was not aware of. On stats, bigger is not alway better. For example, if highway deaths or the numbers of deaths from murder or diseases go down, it is better. What would Hubbard do with stats like that?

I'm going to make a sick joke here but I can't resist so here goes: Maybe the reason that people on Solo NOTs are experiencing more and more cancer is that someone in the NOTs HGC (Hubbard Guidance Center) at Flag is a Ronbot, fixated on stats and believing that they must always go up. He is told to track the number of NOTs pc's who are contracting cancer and does so and pins up the graph on a wall near his desk. It the stat is dropping, his senior, even more of a Ronbot than he is, turns down his request for a day off due to do the falling stat of deaths by cancer so he does an eval and finds that more hours of solo NOTs auditing in the NOTs HGC correlates with more cases of cancer so he pushes for more hours of NOTs auditing.

I know its a sick joke and I wish no NOTs pc the misfortune of developing cancer but the joke makes a valid point. If someone doesn't really understand stats, they can misuse them to increase undesirable stats and then be rewarded for that in CoS.

In closing, Mr. Nobody, what do you call yourself when writing in German. My guess is Herr Niemans, would that be correct? Herr Niemans has a nicer ring to it than Mr Nobody!
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thanks for sharing that Lakey. I think this is a thread in itself and I feel I want to share my story. It’s somewhat personal so I hope people aren’t easily embarrassed or that they think it’s too much pathos.

Just before the end of the last millennium (i.e. late 1999), I caught a train to a town about twenty miles away from the one I lived in at the time to do some shopping. I called in at a supermarket, was waiting in line and by the time I got to be served there were no customers behind me, so I got chatting to the girl serving me.

Sometimes you just click with people, and time just flew by though I don't remember how long we chatted for. She told me she was doing a course in deaf and dumb signing at a college further down the line so that she could work with people with hearing difficulties, and IIRC she was in her second year of that course. We ended up discussing different signings for well known words, places etc. and having fun doing it.

Anyway, time was starting to run short as I had to catch my train, which for some reason was the last one back that evening, so I bid her farewell and made my way back up the main street to the railway station to get home.

Never saw her again, ever. I kept on going back to that supermarket for bars of chocolate on the offchance she'd be working the same shift, but it didn’t happen. I hadn’t asked her her name, much less for her ‘phone number, so I had no way of contacting her.

Maybe it was meant to happen that way, I don't know. I think it's better not to dwell too much on the past though; learn what you can from the past and then try and put it behind you.

A woman I once worked with told me she had enough regrets about her life to sink a battleship, and that despite the fact she had a good job which she enjoyed (she didn't even need to work, because her husband earned good money) and was married with two sons she adored.

Thanks for the story Cat, it is a very interesting story! I like your idea about starting a thread with that story. Would you be interested instarting a new thread with your story and then I would put my story there as well and see what happens.

Another phrase you used in your post caught my eye, "Maybe it was meant to happen that way." That point of view doesn't ring true for me. If you believe in that, you almost have to believe in a universal intelligence present in the universe which determines the course of individual lives. Look at Hats byline at the bottom of her post, quoted from Castaneda, about a force permeating this universe. I believe that to be true but this force would not pre ordain the course of each and every life.

That is one tenet that I hold sacrosanct, that we human have free will to chose our own paths, without interference from a deity of higher power than ourselves. We can sure ask a deity or spiritual team mates or guardian angels, etc. for guidance but that is also done by us using free choice. BTW, talking about dieties, guides, angels and all of that would also make a good thread. Maybe there already was or is such a thread.

We choose our own paths and we can't run time backwards so in most instances, we have one chance to get things right and if we make the wrong choice we suffer the consequences. Sometimes we unexpectedly get a second chance. For example, had you found the person when you went back to look for her, you would have been given a second chance. The fact that it did not happen is just that and no more. I personally don't believe that any higher entity decided for you that it wasn't meant to be. That is just my opinion and I could well be wrong.
Anyway Cat, why not start a new thread using that topic?
Lakey

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thanks for the story Cat, it is a very interesting story! I like your idea about starting a thread with that story. Would you be interested instarting a new thread with your story and then I would put my story there as well and see what happens.

Another phrase you used in your post caught my eye, "Maybe it was meant to happen that way." That point of view doesn't ring true for me. If you believe in that, you almost have to believe in a universal intelligence present in the universe which determines the course of individual lives. Look at Hats byline at the bottom of her post, quoted from Castaneda, about a force permeating this universe. I believe that to be true but this force would not pre ordain the course of each and every life.

That is one tenet that I hold sacrosanct, that we human have free will to chose our own paths, without interference from a deity of higher power than ourselves. We can sure ask a deity or spiritual team mates or guardian angels, etc. for guidance but that is also done by us using free choice. BTW, talking about dieties, guides, angels and all of that would also make a good thread. Maybe there already was or is such a thread.

We choose our own paths and we can't run time backwards so in most instances, we have one chance to get things right and if we make the wrong choice we suffer the consequences. Sometimes we unexpectedly get a second chance. For example, had you found the person when you went back to look for her, you would have been given a second chance. The fact that it did not happen is just that and no more. I personally don't believe that any higher entity decided for you that it wasn't meant to be. That is just my opinion and I could well be wrong.
Anyway Cat, why not start a new thread using that topic?Lakey

Thanks for the heads-up Lakey. I wouldn't want to start a thread with that particular story of mine though, it's a bit too sad.

Did we really have free will, as we think we do? Maybe, but we both made the decisions we made at the time with the information we had at the time (which was far from perfect), in the emotional state we were in at the time, and with the personalities we had back then.

Finally, your brother doesn't sound like he was / is an easy person to stand up to by the sound of this;

" Finally I gave in but said I had to clear this with my brother. I went back to Clarence with his drink and told him the whole story. He responded to me in rage. "There is no way you are going to dump me and spend too week with those two sluts." Don't even think about it. Are you crazy?!! He was really ranting and raving and going ballistic."

I do have an idea for a thread though, on a slightly different but related theme; I'll see if I can find the time for it later on.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thanks for the heads-up Lakey. I wouldn't want to start a thread with that particular story of mine though, it's a bit too sad.

Did we really have free will, as we think we do? Maybe, but we both made the decisions we made at the time with the information we had at the time (which was far from perfect), in the emotional state we were in at the time, and with the personalities we had back then.

Finally, your brother doesn't sound like he was / is an easy person to stand up to by the sound of this;

" Finally I gave in but said I had to clear this with my brother. I went back to Clarence with his drink and told him the whole story. He responded to me in rage. "There is no way you are going to dump me and spend too week with those two sluts." Don't even think about it. Are you crazy?!! He was really ranting and raving and going ballistic."

I do have an idea for a thread though, on a slightly different but related theme; I'll see if I can find the time for it later on.

My brother and I are estranged, He appeared on ESMB about 3 years ago and that is how I learned his screen name. I tried to communicate with him but he was EXTREMELY hostile, to me . Roger B. had some interchange with him in where Clarence was extremely hostile to him as well, Roger contacted me about writing up my brother and getting him off ESMB. Sadly, I agreed that was the proper course of action to take. My brother was particularly insulting to anyone who was a Christian, using 4 letter words to describe Jesus and Mary and denying that Christians and Jews worshipped the same God.

Anyway, on his behalf, he is gifted in many areas including foreign languages, He speaks fluent German, knows Yiddish, moved to Japan and knows Japanese (very difficult for a Westerner), and knows enough Spanish and French to get by with those languages as well. He is a world class joke teller, especially of Yiddish jokes, he can be an emcee or stand up comic at a professional level, he is an excellent writer, especially of children's stories and has also tried sci-fi. He did acting at his alma maters of Fullerton High School and Fullerton College. He played a part in Death of a Salesman, put on by Fullerton College. One of his best friends played Willy Loman. I went to see the play there and some of the lines are permanently engraved in my noggin. It is truly a great play!

Living in Munich for a year or two, he saw "Death of a Salesman" there and told me the title in German. It was something like "Der Todt eines reisende handler" Reisende means traveling. So it translates literally to "The Death of a traveling handler". The word I learned for seller in German was "Verkauffer" and that should mean salesman. It seems however, that for a business salesman who travels from town to town, the words of choice are a Reisendes Handler or something like that, denoting a traveling sales rep, representing a business.as opposed to a Verkauffer who might just sell consumer goods in a store. Mr. Nobody, please correct me if I've got this wrong.

Anyway, my brother was very bossy and extremely hostile any time he wasn't getting his way. His problem was that I was the one who hired him. He drove our pick up truck to various stores and lumber yards to pick up material orders which my Dad phoned in. I started doing that but got more into management so when I heard he was unemployed, I hired him. We paid him $500 a week which was not too shabby in the early 80's. Since I wrote his paycheck and could fire him if he got out of line, he was restricted as to how much he could boss me around.

He had the great misfortune of having his twin brother die at the age of 2 years and 6 days. That must have been extremely traumatic for him. The other twin was the bigger of the two and the leader whenever they were playing. I was 3 years older and somehow the death of my baby brother did not have much of an impact on me. My parents told me that he went to heaven, I dreamed about him a lot the first 6 months or so and then I stopped thinking about him a lot. only every now and then.

BTW, there is another incident I would do over. If I knew my baby brother was going to die on a certain date, I would have made a big fuss with my parents to get him to the doctor's office and have him checked out. I was only 4 years and 9 months old so I don't know if they would have paid attention to me but I think I could have got them to act. How nice it would have been to have shared life with a second brother. For me, it would have been nice, for Clarence, it would have been a much bigger factor. Me and my parents were always extra nice to Clarence because his twin brother was yanked away from him at age 2. It is hard to believe but I feel that it is likely that incident ruined his life for good. It seems that he never got over it. He went forward in life but was always extremely unconventional and always a misfit. He needed help, my parents tried and I tried but we weren't able to give him enough help for him to lead a normal life.
Lakey

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I'm really astounded that if you could repeat things your would do it all exactly the same way again. For me, I would change about a dozen incidents if I knew then what I knew now and had it to do over again.. Two incidents, one in 1983 and one in 1987 would have saved my marriage and would have saved a house which we lost after a $65,000 CoS reg cycle. That is only the beginning. Various opportunities presented themselves to me and I chose not to act on them. In looking at them most of them are romance related. What the hell, I'll relate one such episode for anyone who is interested.

Fall of 1980, I am 40, still single but I met my future wife about 3 weeks before the incident occurred. My brother, Clarence Rockaway on ESMB, wanted desperately to go on a Sea Cruise. He loved cruise ships and knew everything about them and wanted desperately to go on a cruise so I booked a trip for the two of us to cruise the Mediterranean on an Italian vessel. We were having fun, they had casino blackjack, Atari Video games and we made some friends. The food was great and there was dancing in the evenings, etc.

We stopped at the port of Barbdos, an extremely interesting port. The populace are all Black people who speak with a thick British accent. Barbados has a flat bottomed "Party Boat" going out to a small nearby island where everyone can go swimming in the ocean. After we passed the 3 mile limit, they opened their bar with unlimited free rum and Coca Cola drinks for all cruise members. I went over to get drinks for me and my brother wearing swim trunks and a tank top. Sitting on the rail of the ship wearing bikinis were two very attractive young ladies. I got drinks for me and Clarence but before walking back to him, I asked the two beauties how they were doing. They told me to come over to them and they would answer my question.

They tell me that they are both 26 and live in Albany, New York. working as operators for the phone company. They tell me that they booked a trip to Barbados for one full month. They have rented a 2 bedroom, 2 bath villa right on the water and a Jeep to go exploring the Island. They state further that they were not told that all the citizens on Barbados are Black and they say that they don't date Black men. They were raised that way and there is no way they will ever date a Black man. The bottom lines was that they were looking for a White single man to share the final two weeks of their vacation.

They told me that I seemed like a nice guy and was nice looking and they would like me to stay with them for the remaining two weeks of their vacation. They said that they were ordering food from the finest restaurants and that they were bot extremely horny and both would sleep with me every night in a "menage au trois" arrangement and give me as much sex as I could handle, pay for all my food, put me up for free and supply the Jeep and gasoline to cruise the Island and have fun with me.

I was floored; to me this opportunity was unbelievable. I was always a bit on the shy side and never did anything particularly daring. I told them that I would love to do it by my ship sailed in 4 hours for the next port and that I had airline tickets back to L.A. in my suitcase. They said I could call the cruise lines and the airline and rearrange my itinerary to allow a 2 week lay over in Barbados. They pleaded with me to stay, literally begging me to stay with them. Finally I gave in but said I had to clear this with my brother. I went back to Clarence with his drink and told him the whole story. He responded to me in rage. "There is no way you are going to dump me and spend two weeks with those two sluts." Don't even think about it. Are you crazy?!! He was really ranting and raving and going ballistic. I gave in to him. I went back and told the two women that my brother was dead set against me staying. They were heart broken. They told me they had checked out all the other men on this cruise and there was no other single guys which appealed to them. I tried to give them good bye hugs and get their phone numbers but they were pissed at me. That was it! Clarence and I finished our cruise and flew back to Long Beach-Lakewood where we both worked for my Dad. When I got back, I continued dating my ex wife and we got married about 6 months later.

Of course, I never had an opportunity like that again! I think about that event from time to time only wishing that I could live those moments over again. If given that chance, I would tell my brother that I was staying with the two women, period. I was very virile at that age, I would have given the two of them all that they could handle. I feel that I really needed something like that in my life. It would have been good for me in one major sense. It would not have made my a better person or improved me mentally or spiritually but it would have given me more confidence in my manhood and my assertiveness. Any doubts that I might have had about my manhood would have been dispelled by that experience. I still would have married my wife 6 months later but those 2 weeks living in the lap of luxury with two 26 year old, clean cut, single and sexually starved women from Albany would have made me a better man, I am convinced of it. Living with the wife I did marry did not lead to any of that. She is a fine woman, very moral, very nice looking. very intelligent and a fabulous mother but as far as making me feel more manly or more assertive she did not do that in the least.

So there you have it, one major incident that I would have changed had I had a chance to relive it. There are about a dozen total such incidents in my life, over half of them related to my time in Scientology. The fact that Maria doesn't have any incidents she would change really surprises me. Well, live and learn.
Lakey

( Quoted in full so as to not seem so darn nit picky about some of the differences that seem to make me want to sort of respond to that post )


Well, as the saying goes ' To each his own ". So on the other hand as I look back over those things in my life that became the good, the bad, the ugly, along with a series of the mistakes I made, some of my own really really stupid moves, & some things that'll I'm so not proud of that I'll never mention to anyone ?

Ah, I must admit as I look around right now in this moment I do LOVE my life. Love it !

I also have to realize that going back & taking the fork any road that I didn't take back then ( a do-over ? ) - if I had done that back then from the vantage point of the life experiences I've since gained ?

Yes, it would have changed my life & today, right now, at this moment I would not be sitting right where I am sitting in life - and as I said, I LOVE my life & what it has brought to me to enjoy !

Played sports knowing those injuries would plague me as I got older ?
Not jilted that lover from the multi-millionaire family that loved me?
Not walked away from a gold plated career?
Gone to an Ivy League school for an MBA ? Bought that 427 Cobra ?
Skipped some affairs & divorces ?
Not squandered so much time & money on a religious cult ?
Spent a year or so in Europe after college when I could have ?

Like everyone else, I could write a book - or at least spin some yarns!

Such endless lists of choices made & choices not made...... all done 100% by me.

Apparently, we get the life lessons we need & as Oprah says " Life lessons get repeated until we learn 'em "! ( Sure been true for me & on some I've been a very slow learner ! )


My siggy line reflects something I deeply sincerely believe.

"" Cultivate the habit of being grateful for every good thing that comes to you, and to give thanks continuously.
And because all things have contributed to your advancement, you should include all things in your gratitude ".
Ralph Waldo Emerson

I need to be grateful for ALL the life experiences that got me to where I am today.

As my very best friend whom I love so dearly says frequently " When we know better we do better " !

And as I say to myself " I can not change where I have been but what I'm doing right now is entirely & solely my choice from here on out.

I'm pretty convinced the only one who can ever make oneself a better person is ones self.

The wonderful part is everyone gets to choose how to live their own life ..... ain't life grand ?

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

( Quoted in full so as to not seem so darn nit picky about some of the differences that seem to make me want to sort of respond to that post )


Well, as the saying goes ' To each his own ". So on the other hand as I look back over those things in my life that became the good, the bad, the ugly, along with a series of the mistakes I made, some of my own really really stupid moves, & some things that'll I'm so not proud of that I'll never mention to anyone ?

Ah, I must admit as I look around right now in this moment I do LOVE my life. Love it !

I also have to realize that going back & taking the fork any road that I didn't take back then ( a do-over ? ) - if I had done that back then from the vantage point of the life experiences I've since gained ?

Yes, it would have changed my life & today, right now, at this moment I would not be sitting right where I am sitting in life - and as I said, I LOVE my life & what it has brought to me to enjoy !

Played sports knowing those injuries would plague me as I got older ?
Not jilted that lover from the multi-millionaire family that loved me?
Not walked away from a gold plated career?
Gone to an Ivy League school for an MBA ? Bought that 427 Cobra ?
Skipped some affairs & divorces ?
Not squandered so much time & money on a religious cult ?
Spent a year or so in Europe after college when I could have ?

Like everyone else, I could write a book - or at least spin some yarns!

Such endless lists of choices made & choices not made...... all done 100% by me.

Apparently, we get the life lessons we need & as Oprah says " Life lessons get repeated until we learn 'em "! ( Sure been true for me & on some I've been a very slow learner ! )


My siggy line reflects something I deeply sincerely believe.

"" Cultivate the habit of being grateful for every good thing that comes to you, and to give thanks continuously.
And because all things have contributed to your advancement, you should include all things in your gratitude ".
Ralph Waldo Emerson

I need to be grateful for ALL the life experiences that got me to where I am today.

As my very best friend whom I love so dearly says frequently " When we know better we do better " !

And as I say to myself " I can not change where I have been but what I'm doing right now is entirely & solely my choice from here on out.

I'm pretty convinced the only one who can ever make oneself a better person in ones self.

The wonderful part is everyone gets to choose how to live their own life ..... ain't life grand ?

That is exactly what I was thinking. That any change in the past would have brought me to a different spot now. Now that would not have been nice, to choose a different path and not to be where I want to be right now! And that is why I think the concept of wins sort of fails for me. I'm sitting here feeling great about everything that has happened, not just the good stuff.

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

That is exactly what I was thinking. That any change in the past would have brought me to a different spot now. Now that would not have been nice, to choose a different path and not to be where I want to be right now! And that is why I think the concept of wins sort of fails for me. I'm sitting here feeling great about everything that has happened, not just the good stuff.

It does seem it took it All to get here to today the way today is.

To go back & change any piece would alter the results going forward.

I mean OMG imagine NO Apollo thread ! Horror of horrors ! ( was that J & D ? - LOL ! )

To not have my current great friends? Children ? Family ? Lovers ?


Ah, the joy of life & splendor of looking towards sharing tomorrows !

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

That is exactly what I was thinking. That any change in the past would have brought me to a different spot now. Now that would not have been nice, to choose a different path and not to be where I want to be right now! And that is why I think the concept of wins sort of fails for me. I'm sitting here feeling great about everything that has happened, not just the good stuff.

You and Gizmo are in a great place, exactly where you want to be. I envy you in a way but am not exactly where I want to be.

Life seems to boil down to people, mainly family & Friends and having fun doing things with others.. Mix in some aesthetic experiences and some spiritual awareness and growth, enjoy nature, plant and animal life, be creative, help others, share, keep learning new things..... What else is there?

Feeling great about the bad stuff which has happened; that is probably where I differ a bit with you and Gizmo. You two are happy with that stuff. I don't hate that bad things happened to me and don't dwell on it but if I had a chance to do those things over I would chose to do so. Other than that, I guess I'm in agreement with the two of you on your other comments.
Lakey

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

. ... I guess I'm in agreement with the two of you on your other comments.....
Lakey

To me, the very least thing I'd have any thoughts about at all is "agreement" with or about anybody on anything.

Some one decides to " Agree " or " Not Agree " .. Who cares ? It just doesn't have any real bearing on anything.

Would seem to me that 'agreement or disagreement' with another or others doesn't fit in making ones own choices of happiness.

...

And BTW this " Feeling great about the bad stuff which has happened; that is probably where I differ a bit with you and Gizmo. You two are happy with that stuff " is rather different than having gratitude for what has happened in my life.

This " feeling great " & " happy with that stuff " is solely your words.

I said " gratitude " & quoted as in :

" Cultivate the habit of being grateful for every good thing that comes to you, and to give thanks continuously.
And because all things have contributed to your advancement, you should include all things in your gratitude ".
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Please kindly re-read what was said as it seems to be different than what you seemed to get.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Interesting to hear of your international background, that is an interesting facet of you which I was not aware of.

"International background" might be misleading. Personally, I've only visited a few European countries and some north-eastern states of the USA. But I know people from many different countries. Yaknow, when you work in a factory, you share your cafeteria table with colleagues from all over the world.

Example: I worked hand in hand with a Portuguese colleague who'd been in Germany for many years, so he spoke German well enough. But later, when several newly-arrived people worked in that factory they joined our table, because there was someone who spoke their language and knew how things are dealt with in Germany. So, the language automatically changed from German to Portuguese and now I was the outlander at that table. After a few weeks, I had picked up enough of their language to join their conversations. Learning by doing. In some factories, basically every table spoke another language, so you just need to sit and learn, while eating your breakfast or lunch. Amazing, how much one can learn about different countries, just by having lunch. Believe me or not, but one can learn more about the different issues a certain country has, than any TV channel and any Google search can teach you.

That's BTW the reason why your recent comment about Iran made me cringe so much. How many conversations with Iranians in exile have you had? I ask because I currently have one every week, sometimes more. That person is still well connected to Iran, so I/we can even compare the prices of certain wares and services with the prices here in Germany. Trust me, there's a huge gap between the people and their government.

On stats, bigger is not alway better. For example, if highway deaths or the numbers of deaths from murder or diseases go down, it is better. What would Hubbard do with stats like that?

And there I end up with the general problem I have with you: You mix up facts, often just one-sided interpretations of facts, with half-truths, falsehoods, personal misinterpretations, woo and whatnot. Often enough, you clearly are out of your league and attempt to defend totally indefensible points, like this A=432 Hz bullshit. You mix up A1 with C1 with A4 and behave as if you knew what you're talking about.

Yes, you know quite some stuff and you can google even more of that and you can rattle off "facts" and big numbers with many digits almost as good as Miscavige - but what about the content? Your content is often faulty and the errors are often hidden behind a large amount of data. You definitely do sometimes have good, valid information, so why keep mistreating it? Mistakes like A=C and 81 Thousand instead of 81 Millions jump right into the eye of every sane reader. Mistakes like that can be found in many of your posts and it hurts.

I don't speak about the occasional typo, we all make those. I speak about your mistreatment of information. I don't know whether you do that deliberately or whether you're just too sloppy to be trusted, but it's painful to watch. Which is why I skip many of your posts.

I'm going to make a sick joke here but I can't resist so here goes: Maybe the reason that people on Solo NOTs are experiencing more and more cancer is that someone in the NOTs HGC (Hubbard Guidance Center) at Flag is a Ronbot, fixated on stats and believing that they must always go up. He is told to track the number of NOTs pc's who are contracting cancer and does so and pins up the graph on a wall near his desk. It the stat is dropping, his senior, even more of a Ronbot than he is, turns down his request for a day off due to do the falling stat of deaths by cancer so he does an eval and finds that more hours of solo NOTs auditing in the NOTs HGC correlates with more cases of cancer so he pushes for more hours of NOTs auditing.

I know its a sick joke and I wish no NOTs pc the misfortune of developing cancer but the joke makes a valid point. If someone doesn't really understand stats, they can misuse them to increase undesirable stats and then be rewarded for that in CoS.

I see no joke there, maybe that's because I've never studied Hubbard.

As far as the misuse of stats goes: Every politician, every marketer and quite a few more groups are great at misusing stats. In some cases, I've had the opportunity to have a good look at the real data. I've seen what is done with the data to serve a certain purpose and I've seen how good, (almost) undiscoverable stat-manipulation works.

Male, age group 20-60: Shit, that stat looks bad for us! Let's use male, age group 20-40: Better, but still not good enough. Making the age range even smaller will look unconvincing, but what if we include the females? There, any-gender, age 20-41 looks great, so let's publish that one!

That's why I treat the majority of stats with a huge package of salt.

In closing, Mr. Nobody, what do you call yourself when writing in German. My guess is Herr Niemans, would that be correct? Herr Niemans has a nicer ring to it than Mr Nobody!
Lakey

No, that would not be correct. That'd be sloppy work again, as Google translate would have told you, had you checked. The correct translation for "Nobody" is "Niemand", and I only use "MrNobody" here on ESMB. Any decent researcher can find my real name which I posted once here on ESMB, and I've even received a package from an Ex-OSA-Volunteer (and even more packages since then), so finding out who I am and where I live is not exactly rocket science.

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

And, Maria, I find the way you think so refreshing, so encouraging - I do enjoy & look forward to your posts !

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I never learned to blow glass.

Hmmm. Probably a few things I never learned to blow.................

I never got to Greece ( yet ) or on an Alaskan Cruise.

I never got to witness in person the Northern lights.

I never even my got my very own personal goldenrod giving me my freedom & setting my soul free from eternal captivity !

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It does seem it took it All to get here to today the way today is.

To go back & change any piece would alter the results going forward.

I mean OMG imagine NO Apollo thread ! Horror of horrors ! ( was that J & D ? - LOL ! )

To not have my current great friends? Children ? Family ? Lovers ?


Ah, the joy of life & splendor of looking towards sharing tomorrows !

Yes! And that means that without Scn there would be no Apollo thread. An unpopular thought, therefore ESMB never was either! I originally wrote here when I first posting, if I recall correctly, that I really don't regret any of it, in my own experience. The bad stuff that happened to me though was not the same as that which happened to others. Miami org was a fun place when I was there. I left right when things went south and so I missed the ugliness. (Generally try to skip those parts!)

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yes! And that means that without Scn there would be no Apollo thread.
An unpopular thought, therefore ESMB never was either!
I originally wrote here when I first posting, if I recall correctly, that I really don't regret any of it, in my own experience.
The bad stuff that happened to me though was not the same as that which happened to others.
Miami org was a fun place when I was there. I left right when things went south and so I missed the ugliness.
(Generally try to skip those parts!)

>< >< >< ><

"Miami org was a fun place when I was there" as was CC down on 8 th St in LA with the nightly skits out in the parking lot. So dog gone much fun it just couldn't be missed. That fun got killed. I STILL fondly remember some of those skits. There was FUN to be had !

>< >< >< ><

Yes, as much as I like to think I've always sat here astride my beautiful unicorn there are those yester years when I rode an ass ... or was an ass.

This notion that gets floated here & there that some people are "better" than other people or are some kind of "chosen" ones is a whole topic I'm going to try avoid commenting about.

None of us are where we are ultimately going so there is no "right" or "wrong" as we are not yet at the "goal" but merely somewhere along on our path.

Also seems as we approach what we once thought was our "goal" our life experiences have generated a shift in what was once our precious "goals".

I'm going to be content to be alive & loving as I move along the path of enjoying these luscious life experiences as they appear.

Oh, didn't some wise person once say " Words don't teach. Experience teaches ".

And here I am writing words...............perhaps only to myself as a reflection of what I hope I've learned ?


<> <> <> <>

PS : I do believe that ESMB has been so much help to so many people in so many different ways & on so many different levels it has made the onion of scn a softer peel than it would have been otherwise.

I have more appreciation than mere words will ever express.

Emma, et al, have done us all such a great service !

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

< some pulled out>

They told me that I seemed like a nice guy and was nice looking and they would like me to stay with them for the remaining two weeks of their vacation.
They said that they were ordering food from the finest restaurants and that they were both

extremely horny and

both would sleep with me every night

in a "menage au trois" arrangement

and give me as much sex as I could handle,

pay for all my food, put me up for free and supply the Jeep and gasoline to cruise the Island and have fun with me.

< some chopped off >

Well, live and learn.

Lakey

One of the finest people I ever hoped to know would chuckle & say
" That was probably the finest piece of ass you never got "
or
As a most cynical friend of mine would have undoubtedly exclaimed
" Wow, that guy slipped right through the hands of serial killers. he is LUCKY to be alive " !

Any howdy, Isn't there a song " Memories are made of this " ?



BTW, no offense intended in these fun puns.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yes! And that means that without Scn there would be no Apollo thread. An unpopular thought, therefore ESMB never was either! I originally wrote here when I first posting, if I recall correctly, that I really don't regret any of it, in my own experience. The bad stuff that happened to me though was not the same as that which happened to others. Miami org was a fun place when I was there. I left right when things went south and so I missed the ugliness. (Generally try to skip those parts!)

If there was no Scientology, there would be no Apollo thread. If there was Scientology but you never joined up there would still be an Apollo thread. The thread would have progressed the exact same way it did up to early March when you showed up. Almost for certain, you would not have shown up on the thread but there is a slight chance that a Google search could have sent you here but even if you showed up here, you problem wouldn't have joined ESMB because you were never in CoS.

I there was Scientology but I never joined it there would be no Apollo Thread. If Carmelo had never joined it, the Apollo thread would have ended in October, 2009 with about 7,200 hits.

If I had never joined CoS, I never would have met my wife and had the Kids I know have. I wouldn't know a lot of good people, I would be a lot more wealthy financially but my life probably would have been much emptier.

It seems as if each of us has a time line, of our movements through space. (A more esoteric descriptive would be a 4 dimensional spacetime line.) Places where we meet, are intersections of our line. Often, if two people meet, their influence on one another causes them both to change directions. Where the life line ends is anyone's guess. Time will continute on but the person will no longer appear on the time line as a person. Either he will be no more or will continue on as a spirit or perhaps as a spirit the person may not be subject to the agreements about time.

Our discussion had to do with trying to go back to some critical point on our time line and make a decision whether or not to change course. I believe that 4 people have weighed in on whether or not they would change anything. 3 said no they wouldn't. I was the only one who said yes, I would. Our sample size is way too small to be of any value in evaluating the question.

One thing which appears apparent to me is that if one was ablty to change course, he would likely prevent something which he considered bad from happening. For example, if someone went back to the 1930's in Germany and killed Hitler, we could say with almost 100% certainty that WWII would never had occurred. That is about it. All we would know is that WWII would not be started by Germany invading Poland. Everything else would be speculation.

As far as agreements, I believe that there is only one senior agreement for individual human beings and that is that we all are given freedom of choice of action. We are also given some tools and aids which we can use to attempt to make our choices turn out well. Other than that, I don't feel there is any preplanned destiny or any way things were intended to be. Those concepts seem ad hoc to me. Its just one person's opinion but the idea that things were just meant to happen seems totally untrue to me. It would be the ultimate of all ad hoc proofs.
It would be a solution pieced together on to prove its own point. Example: In am talking about saying, +The way things are now is the way things were meant to be." To me this statement is completely false.

SUMMARY:

If some says, "The way things are now is the result of the conglomerate of agreements from all beings combine." I believe this statement is an accurate portrayal of how the current moment came to be. A key point to make is that this common agreement does not guarantee us an optimum state of affairs. If someone could go back and change some people's agreements in the past, we know that what we have right now would be DIFFERENT from what it is right now. It might be better or it might bet worse. We really don't know.

My feeling is that it should be better because we are stopping somethings, such as WWII from taking place. The odds are that this would have been better than what actually took place but there is a chance that things could have been worse. One reason, I am in favor of changing things if I could go back is that I feel the odds of improvement our higher than 50% because I am getting rid of something which was extremely bad, such as WWII. Maybe the odds are 90% that things would be better and 10% that they would be worse. No one can know but coming at it from a mathematical point of view, I will nearly always bet the hand which has the better chance of winning. The only exception would be if I had some sort of inside information but in this case I would never have that nor would anyone else.
Lakey