The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

A long time ago I studied The Tale of Genji, an ancient Japanese tale of love and power.

In that tale, a cultivated person (this was limited to a very few few people, such as the royal family) would have the below skills or talents

writing poetry (to be able to write beautifully)
the arts of war
the art of conversation
the art of making love (including flirting)
art, or, the art of art (life, art, poetry, conversation, war)

At least this is what I remember from reading The Tale of Genji. It's been a few years.

Or maybe all these arts are just the last one.....

There seems to be something positive to be said for listing the parts of something rather than just mentioning the whole entity such as one large thing. I don't know why that is but the impulse to break one thing down into a list of individual attributes is an extremely strong urge, at least in my case. Just writing about this topic at this moment is bringing on various unpleasant reactions in and around my body and space.

Maybe it has to do with complaining about things early in life or in an earlier life or parallel universe or whatever. For example, somebody claims to a friend or a councilor, "I just don't have much charisma." Well, the councilor can say, "Look at the bright side of things, you are tall, you have a nice speaking voice, and you speak with conviction. It seems to me you should count those as blessings."

Pointing out some strengths in a field in which a person is having trouble in can be therapeutic. It redirects a complainers attention from a seeming impossible large topic, to several sub topics which seem less ominous to master or overcome.

As an example, let's take your comments above:

The Attributes of a Cultivated Person
writing poetry (to be able to write beautifully)
the arts of war
the art of conversation
the art of making love (including flirting)
art, or, the art of art (life, art, poetry, conversation, war)

#1. Writing poetry (to be able to write beautifully). Some people have an inborn knack for this and those who do not may be schooled to develop this in most, but not all, cases.
#2. The arts of war. This is not taught to the general public. Military Academies do teach it if someone wants to go into that field. One can also read books on the subject.
#3. The art of conversation. This itself needs to be subdivided as to style and as to content. One should know about a lot of topics if he/she is to succeed at this. Style can be learned.
#4. The art of making love (flirting). #4 requires #3 and #1 might help. Body attributes contribute a lot and that is not always under one's control. Technique must be mastered.
#5 Art, or, the Art of Art. I am puzzled why war is included. If the other 3 attributes are mastered, war should be able to be avoided.

Look at it this way, If a young person is told he needs to learn the art of life, he may feel lost or overwhelmed. I would present the items 1,3,4 and 5 and tell the young person that if those traits are truly mastered, the art of war should not need to be learned and in most cases, the Art of Life will be mastered. Learning the art of war can be learned as sort of an insurance policy in case learning the other 4 traits does not lead the person to be a cultivated person.

Just imagine telling a person to go and lean the art of Life. Then imagine telling a person to learn the 5 specific items as written above. To me, the person has a much better chance of success if he is told to learn the 5 traits listed which will then endow him with the knowledge of the art of life.
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There seems to be something positive to be said for listing the parts of something rather than just mentioning the whole entity such as one large thing. I don't know why that is but the impulse to break one thing down into a list of individual attributes is an extremely strong urge, at least in my case. Just writing about this topic at this moment is bringing on various unpleasant reactions in and around my body and space.

Maybe it has to do with complaining about things early in life or in an earlier life or parallel universe or whatever. For example, somebody claims to a friend or a councilor, "I just don't have much charisma." Well, the councilor can say, "Look at the bright side of things, you are tall, you have a nice speaking voice, and you speak with conviction. It seems to me you should count those a blessings."

Pointing out some strengths in a field in which a person is having trouble in can be therapeutic. It redirects a complainers attention from a seeming impossible large topic, to several sub topics which seem less ominous to master or overcome.

As an example, let's take your comments above:

The Attributes of a Cultivated Person
writing poetry (to be able to write beautifully)
the arts of war
the art of conversation
the art of making love (including flirting)
art, or, the art of art (life, art, poetry, conversation, war)

#1. Writing poetry (to be able to write beautifully). Some people have an inborn knack for this and those who do not may be schooled to develop this in most, but not all, cases.
#2. The arts of war. This is not taught to the general public. Military Academies do teach it if someone wants to go into that field. One can also read books on the subject.
#3. The art of conversation. This itself needs to be subdivided as to style and as to content. One should know about a lot of topics if he/she is to succeed at this. Style can be learned.
#4. The art of making love (flirting). #4 requires #3 and #1 might help. Body attributes contribute a lot and that is not always under one's control. Technique must be mastered.
#5 Art, or, the Art of Art. I am puzzled why war is included. If the other 3 attributes are mastered, war should be able to be avoided.

Look at it this way, If a young person is told he needs to learn the art of life, he may feel lost or overwhelmed. I would present the items 1,3,4 and 5 and tell the young person that if those traits are truly mastered, the art of war should not need to be learned and in most cases, the Art of Life will be mastered. Learning the law of war can be learned as sort of an insurance policy in case learning the other 4 traits does not lead the person to be a cultivated person.

Just imagine telling a person to go and lean the art of Life. Then imagine telling a person to learn the 5 specific items as written above. To me, the person has a much better chance of success if he is told to learn the 5 traits listed which will then endow him with the knowledge of the art of life.
Lakey

In that ancient Japanese context the skills listed had almost zero to do with success; they were just required if one wanted to even get to the starting line up. So confidence did not accrue on those 'skills'. It just meant one could play. Sort of like a horse that gets to be in a race; just means he has a chance. These were just baseline skills that one had to have. To even be presentable - saying nothing of if one was going to cut the mustard. For the art of art, I presume painting was required; although calligraphy doubled as writing. It was a complex social system; individually standing out or succeeding would have been awkward. (Unless socially recognized.) The 'skill' was its own value and result; achievements were predicated on fate. Self-determinism was barely a concept. One did these things - learn an instrument, paint, write, converse, because it was the baseline. It was required. Like having a driver's license. I think that painting and instrument were part of #1. Not optional, although some were more gifted. I will try to find the exact list.....

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

In that ancient Japanese context the skills listed had almost zero to do with success; they were just required if one wanted to even get to the starting line up. So confidence did not accrue on those 'skills'. It just meant one could play. Sort of like a horse that gets to be in a race; just means he has a chance. These were just baseline skills that one had to have. To even be presentable - saying nothing of if one was going to cut the mustard. For the art of art, I presume painting was required; although calligraphy doubled as writing. It was a complex social system; individually standing out or succeeding would have been awkward. (Unless socially recognized.) The 'skill' was its own value and result; achievements were predicated on fate. Self-determinism was barely a concept. One did these things - learn an instrument, paint, write, converse, because it was the baseline. It was required. Like having a driver's license. I think that painting and instrument were part of #1. Not optional, although some were more gifted. I will try to find the exact list.....

Thanks for all the elaboration. This is not a topic one would expect to find interesting but I find it extremely so. The Japanese culture is so different from our Western cultures. I can see your point about the traits of your earlier post just qualifying a young person to be in the game of life, your analogy of a driver's license is excellent! I still don't fully see why learning the art of war would be necessary to even get into the game.

I know the Japanese have a long and proud history of excellence in the marshal arts, the word "Bushido" comes to mind. Also, Maria, are the traits to get one's drivers license the same for both males and females? You make no distinction there but it seems to me that in the art of war, women might not be trained in the same manner as the men. Even in the other traits there might be some allowances made for the two genders, can you verify if this is true or not?

I really appreciate your comments on self determinism barely being a concept, standing out or succeeding would have been awkward and the "skill" was its own value and result. So fascinating and in many ways, these trappings of their society are so much more elevated than in typical Western societies.

Congratulations on posting something different and of high quality on this, your 3 month anniversary of posting on this thread!!
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thanks for all the elaboration. This is not a topic one would expect to find interesting but I find it extremely so. The Japanese culture is so different from our Western cultures. I can see your point about the traits of your earlier post just qualifying a young person to be in the game of life, your analogy of a driver's license is excellent! I still don't fully see why learning the art of war would be necessary to even get into the game.

I know the Japanese have a long and proud history of excellence in the marshal arts, the word "Bushido" comes to mind. Also, Maria, are the traits to get one's drivers license the same for both males and females? You make no distinction there but it seems to me that in the art of war, women might not be trained in the same manner as the men. Even in the other traits there might be some allowances made for the two genders, can you verify if this is true or not?

I really appreciate your comments on self determinism barely being a concept, standing out or succeeding would have been awkward and the "skill" was its own value and result. So fascinating and in many ways, these trappings of their society are so much more elevated than in typical Western societies.

Congratulations on posting something different and of high quality on this, your 3 month anniversary of posting on this thread!!
Lakey

Actually, as my memory returns it seems most of those skills were for women to attract a mate. The war skill and communication skill accrued to men. I may have old notes and I will look for them tomorrow. You see a man could not look at the woman in the Heian dynasty - but he could hear her play an instrument, receive her art or a note from her and even through these elaborate means, communicate and flirt. The man in such a position however was already being groomed for high things, and might have any number of concubines and, if I recall, wives. To attract such a husband one had to be quite talented. But this did not mean monogamy since the home/property itself might have wings separating the various women, according to stature. Don't take from this that indiscretions did not harm a man; they very much could. Chances are the only two males to see a girl's face would be her father and husband, so even a glimpse of the face could be a scandal. Thus music, art, flirtation and communication were means of adjudicating a woman's quality, not appearance. Although of course a glimpse would be often managed before sealing a deal.


So while all had to acquire a basic level of these things, sometimes a special beauty in music or writing would be in evidence. Men too had to perform but this was a bit different. Will see if I can find my notes. If I recall though Genji did have to have some social aptitude although no doubt a servant could assist in various tasks.

ps - Genji did have to be able to write a poem since that was part of the flirtation. Generally one of a lady's servants would create the possibility of acquiring the illicit glimpse. (And would pass love notes.) But there were rules, such that regardless of anything, if a girl was too low born or some other issue relating to family or birth order, and a man were to pursue, the situation could cause problems.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: What is a "Big Being"?

I would like to meet the fellow in charge - 'circumstance' - so that I can be informed as to whether I'll be successful in art or if I will have to settle for arm chair philosopher.
This fellow, whoever he is, circumstance, seems to circle my life. So it's only fair that I ask him for the straight dope. (And note, the etymology of 'circumstance' is related to said circle.....)

So circumstance, please come over and have a couple of margaritas with me, let's get drunk and give a bit of advice, less obtuse this time. (As comedian Andy Kaufman would say, "Thank you very much.")

Still struggling with understanding how one can max out causation levels/potential. This advanced concept is beyond me......

That fellow would be me, I am the official in charge of the Department of Circumstance. If and when you manage a trip out to the West Coast, I will be able to do a reading on you to give you the straight dope on whether or not you will be successful in art. No margaritas until after the reading is done because alcohol is very likely to render any readings impossible. Yes, if a positive answer emerges for a successful art career then the Margaritas would serve as a celebration but it the reading yielded a negative result, the Margaritas would serve a different purpose.

On your last sentence about struggling with understanding how one can max out causation levels potential, I believe that Carmelo put out the best advice so far and that is to connect up with lots of people but not necessarily just any people but rather influential people people with connections in high places. It's clear that you have a better chance in New York City than you would have if you went to Mongolia. New York City, L.A., San Francisco, Miami, Paris, places like that afford more contacts and then among those many contacts you must find the right contacts. ESMB has at least one such person I know and there are probably others on ESMB.
Lakey

P.S. Of course, you also need some degree of Art talent as well but from what you have shown on the board, you have sufficient talent to be successful in an art career.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I just read the Bright Think rundown online. "Where would you be safe?" is the command. Gee. I used to run that on bogged pcs. Pulled it from the volumes somewhere.

And to think they got it from me as part of life repair, before the rundown even came out.
So where is the bright think rundown on the bridge?

I feel so woefully uninformed!

Just remembered. "Is it safe?" is a big line from that Nazi film, Marathon Man.

I just came across this rundown last night on my hard drive too. I thought it mo betta than the Sunshine rundown file just adjacent to that folder.

So, how big is a being....if you look at all his parts and all that he causes and works through?
Hard to say. But yesterday I read a most disconcerting piece of work by a Michael Mourier called The Final Secret. It is based on a phenomena he chose to label AMs, or animal minds. I suppose he was saying your actual anima put out as a person......creates the spiritual machinery that runs the 'aspects' of your life. It knows that if Y happens then mode B or mode D comes to the fore as a 'way to be' dramatization. Its all coded....just like the 'items' in a gpm pkg. The game will repeat thru time finding persons and ways to dramatize the cycle of action to completion....it hopes. It's all on automatic, below your will, and awareness. Just all on auto-pilot.

How Depressing!!! It put me in a bad mood all day. There must be some lie in it I thought. I went over in my mind what I was in terrible disagreement with. Then I made a list and found 10 things which I had observed over the past 40 yrs which were identical with his cited phenomena. These AMs shift persons and clone to instigate a re-enactment of fights and situations. In circular processing one finds that the individual conscious awareness runs VERY deep and spread out ....pervading thru all persona dramatis being looked at in a theme. A person expands out as far as he influences. He's like an ocean. It's almost as if we had at one time erroneously identified with the biggest, winning, chunk of our composite and denied that we were even MORE than that. This DEEP video was in my e-mail today. It came along with a few others. It was generated by Ant.

https://youtu.be/wG1xuq2Wiiw

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Actually, as my memory returns it seems most of those skills were for women to attract a mate. The war skill and communication skill accrued to men. I may have old notes and I will look for them tomorrow. You see a man could not look at the woman in the Heian dynasty - but he could hear her play an instrument, receive her art or a note from her and even through these elaborate means, communicate and flirt. The man in such a position however was already being groomed for high things, and might have any number of concubines and, if I recall, wives. To attract such a husband one had to be quite talented. But this did not mean monogamy since the home/property itself might have wings separating the various women, according to stature. Don't take from this that indiscretions did not harm a man; they very much could. Chances are the only two males to see a girl's face would be her father and husband, so even a glimpse of the face could be a scandal. Thus music, art, flirtation and communication were means of adjudicating a woman's quality, not appearance. Although of course a glimpse would be often managed before sealing a deal.


So while all had to acquire a basic level of these things, sometimes a special beauty in music or writing would be in evidence. Men too had to perform but this was a bit different. Will see if I can find my notes. If I recall though Genji did have to have some social aptitude although no doubt a servant could assist in various tasks.

Thanks for this follow up, I'm glad that I asked the question about gender because this new sub topic on gender is even more interesting than the original posts we just discussed!!
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I just came across this rundown last night on my hard drive too. I thought it mo betta than the Sunshine rundown file just adjacent to that folder.

So, how big is a being....if you look at all his parts and all that he causes and works through?
Hard to say. But yesterday I read a most disconcerting piece of work by a Michael Mourier called The Final Secret. It is based on a phenomena he chose to label AMs, or animal minds. I suppose he was saying your actual anima put out as a person......creates the spiritual machinery that runs the 'aspects' of your life. It knows that if Y happens then mode B or mode D comes to the fore as a 'way to be' dramatization. Its all coded....just like the 'items' in a gpm pkg. The game will repeat thru time finding persons and ways to dramatize the cycle of action to a hopeful completion....this time. It's all on automatic, below your will, and awareness. Just all on auto-pilot.

How Depressing!!! It put me in a bad mood all day. There must be some lie in it I thought. I went over in my mind what I was in terrible disagreement with. Then I made a list and found 10 things which I had observed over the past 40 yrs which were identical with his cited phenomena. These AMs jump persons to cause a re-enactment of fights and situations. In circular processing one finds that the individual conscious awareness runs VERY deep and spread out ....pervading thru all persona dramatis being looked at in an incident or theme. It's like an ocean. It's almost as if we had at one time erroneoysly identified with the biggest, or winning, chunk of our composite and denied that we were even MORE than that. This DEEP video was in my e-mail today. It came along with a few others. It was generated by Ant.

https://youtu.be/wG1xuq2Wiiw

I tried to find this writer; where did you read of the animal minds thing? I did find some links on deep character clearing.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thanks for this follow up, I'm glad that I asked the question about gender because this new sub topic on gender is even more interesting than the original posts we just discussed!!
Lakey

Playing an instrument for a lady was required. To play badly was a terrible thing, a symptom of being dull, and less than attractive. Fashion was very important insofar as one's fancy clothes, 12 layers of, might be all a suitor might hope to see....but one's taste and fashion sense revealed a lot.... Shyness was more prized than assertiveness. And this included being hidden in layers of cloth. Very fancy wrapping.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

So a girl would get quite good at a string instrument as a form of flirtation. Not to become famous or such but as a private thing, for the benefit of proving herself gentile and as a way to be attractive to one hearer. No concept of art for the masses as all that might happen if one were talented was that this detail would reach the suitor's ear, as gossip, that x was wonderfully musical, and a servant would arrange an accidental 'concert'.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I tried to find this writer; where did you read of the animal minds thing? I did find some links on deep character clearing.

I think this is Heidrun's main page now;

http://www.life-lessons.eu/

She's also got an account here as "hbeer".

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I found your post Hats, when I searched Google!

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...Hero-s-Journey&p=967365&viewfull=1#post967365

Seems like 'where would you be safe?' could run on any dynamic or any identity on any dynamic or on any animal mind, domestic or foreign.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I tried to find this writer; where did you read of the animal minds thing? I did find some links on deep character clearing.

It is very old. It was written possibly in another language as the spelling is flawed now. I don't agree 100% with all of it. I AM NOT INTO GETTING RID OF SPIRIT. But I have been seeing people get psychologically and psychicallly 'attacked' ad nauseum lately. Out in the world and on this message board. I believe EVERYTHING is basically spirit, but that which is intending very strenuosly to be 'solid substance' or dense or core particles is fighting to combat its anathema agent. Something is afoot. There seems to be a tsunami of people attacking others for no real reason everywhere I look lately. Their reasons why have become nonsense, because they themselves don't know why they are going thru the motions....or where the vehemence is arising from.

And Mourier's book kinda resonates with this concept of Wetiko....an Indian word for this

https://youtu.be/YbjFsA1V1s4

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I found your post Hats, when I searched Google!

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...Hero-s-Journey&p=967365&viewfull=1#post967365

Seems like 'where would you be safe?' could run on any dynamic or any identity on any dynamic or on any animal mind, domestic or foreign.

Yeah....that's where a person 'is' at .....headwise. That's why I'm being the village idiot.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thanks Cat! I never saw that link. http://www.life-lessons.eu/
Scrolling to 'in depth study' on her dashboard shows where I agree.

As Human Beings we are a combination of a Spiritual Being with a Physical Body, resulting in a Life Form. We therefore have a gateway or interface to both of these sides. So, other relevant links go to Body Biology and to the Non-Physical World.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It is very old. It was written possibly in another language as the spelling is flawed now. I don't agree 100% with all of it. I AM NOT INTO GETTING RID OF SPIRIT. But I have been seeing people get psychologically and psychicallly 'attacked' ad nauseum lately. Out in the world and on this message board. I believe EVERYTHING is basically spirit, but that which is intending very strenuosly to be 'solid substance' or dense or core particles is fighting to combat its anathema agent. Something is afoot. There seems to be a tsunami of people attacking others for no real reason everywhere I look lately. Their reasons why have become nonsense, because they themselves don't know why they are going thru the motions....or where the vehemence is arising from.

10 pages left.....

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

AMs make more sense than BTs. The sheer number, per the pdf, IS depressing.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973





I forgot to add the Wetiko quote. Interestingly, both authors, Mourier and Levy are orientated with their heads in Tibet and the Far East.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

AMs make more sense than BTs. The sheer number, per the pdf, IS depressing.

Gee...you read fast. I kindsa discount the numbers. Too bleak. Edgar Allan Poe bleak! But when I was rereading the cosmic history from the Oahspe that Mockingbird posted....well, I dunno. Seems millions of lonely displaced druijas were formed into a fiery ring or boundary to keep things in this universe INside and anything OUTside from penetrating in. They were used for 'boundaries'. They created the undispellable 'spell' of a particular form. Maybe they are the mystical "seals". The intention behind creating a seal.....is to not have something be opened up and revealed.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Gee...you read fast. I kindsa discount the numbers. Too bleak. Edgar Allen Poe bleak. But when I was rereading the cosmic history from the Oahspe that Mockingbird posted....well, I dunno. Seems millions of lonely displaces druijas were formed into a fiery ring or boundary to keep things in this universe INside and anything OUTside from penetrating in. They were used for 'boundaries'. They created the undispellable 'spell' of the particular form. Maybe they are the mystical "seals". The intention behind creating a seal.....is to not have something be opened up and revealed.

Yes on seals. Isn't old ot 4 something about what valence would be safe ? Interesting what could be hidden in a being or entity or identity or valence ....like those nesting dolls. Then each surrounded by clones - a synthetic security system (to protect things or keep things out or keep things in) as in the movies Inception or Vanilla Sky....