The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Gizmo]

Ex-Scientologists Discuss The Significance of Everything

When this thread finally hits 2 million views I think the Mods should rename it... I'd suggest something like;

Ex-Scientologists Discuss The Significance of Everything

What do you think?

How appealing ! More than just discuss some seem mired in the significance of it all to them.

What seems to be fascinating is there are those who remain locked in Dr. Hubbards specialized word usage.

I often wonder do they feel those words are of particular significance or that those words keep them in contact with what they believe - or want to believe ?

Other days, it seems like some people want to say that not only did they study dianetics, they word cleared it, they did demos, they did clay demos, they worked over dolls or walls gaining the ability to 'do it', they did drills to a "pass" & at last audited other students.
Then they went on to an internship armed with meter drills, R3R drills, this that & the other code plus KSW to do this stuff under the watchful eye of video. Most ended up passing to become full fledged "auditors" & only very rarely was one removed for not making the grade.

That some pretty through indoctrination, training & supervision to get 'er done like the Dr Hubbard said do it. Lotsa work went into getting there !

Ah, erasure.....postulate off...... earlier similar... past lives & all those things but most importantly the RESULTS as Dr Hubbard said there were.

Dianetic clear ? Of course ! Exactly as was stated ( well, defined several different times in different ways ).

Nevermind the first half of Dianetics is damn near a word for word copy of another persons work who, BTW, abandoned it as unworkable.

Or Freud ( and others ) who abandoned Aberrational Therapy as a path to not be on.

Then move on the much vaulted OT levels & find out the TA going up in dianetics was really BT's & clusters getting restimulated while the TA coming down was them blowing off !

Oh little did dianetic auditors know they really handling OT level stuff with R3R !

There comes the question is it person has invested so much time, some money, perhaps some relationships, but, certainly of themselves into this, oh, call it STUDY ... that they can never really really bring themselves to abandon it ?

Would that be admitting one was, well, flat out wrong in their own decision to go down that road ? Yes, still wrong even if - and they were - mis-led, deceived lied to & conned.

It really couldn't be that this training was the peak of the individuals mental capacity as many already had college degrees, advanced degrees & careers that required more than average intelligence.

Throw in the "help button" that most people have getting stomped hard- That help others ! Maybe some desire to better oneself if not reach some promised god-like state ( or status ).


The whole of the experience tends to get mired in significance of one self & of the study of the volume of materials Dr Hubbard attributes only to Himself.


The significance of the significance is indeed significant !


Perhaps the EP is to leave it at " Yes, some people do believe ( whatever ) " & just move on with the love of life.

giz

 

[Enthetan]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

FIFY, because some correct information in this "Lakeyan" thread can't hurt, right?

From Merriam Webster:

Origin of NAZI
German, by shortening & alteration from Nationalsozialist, from national national + Sozialist socialist
First Known Use: 1930​

But yes, you are correct, NSDAP is the formal German abbreviation for National Socialist German Workers Party.

 

[Panda Termint]

Re: Ex-Scientologists Discuss The Significance of Everything

...
The significance of the significance is indeed significant !...

That's positively symbolic!

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

If not mistaken Hawking supports infinite parallel universes + wormholes (although he is a determinist and I would lean more to indeterminacy or Heisenberg's uncertainty principle).

Maria, just two comments on this post but first a comment on a post just earlier where you said that you found the concept of one of anything quite unusual. I agree with that comment except for one special case which is the word "universe". I believe the original sense of that word had to do with the entirety of ALL things. I think we need a word for something that encompasses all things, even including God, worm holes, parallel universes, more than 3 spatial dimension, etc.. No matter what is being discussed, everything has to, by definition, be part of that universe. I propose that we capitalize the letter "U" in that definition of the Universe and for all sub universes use a lower case "u".

I heard Hawking being interviewed by Denis Prager on his morning radio talk show about 3 times. Denis also interviewed two other well known university trained specialists on theories of origins of the universe. One guy I thought was terrible but Hawking seemed very plausible as did the third gentleman seemed. One of them started out in his career denying God and then changed his mind. He believed in the Big Bang Theory and had sort of an epiphany when he realized that all the constants of physics and chemistry would have to had been pre programmed into the primordial ball of condensed matter which exploded. In other words, when the explosion took place, the freezing and boiling points of water, the velocity of light, the speed of sound in air, Avogadro's number, all freezing and melting points. DNA patterns, gene patters, every constant in this Universe would have had to be pre programmed into the matter before the explosion occurred. The scientists could find no explanation for this other than intelligent design and thus changed his beliefs.

Here is a link to Denis discussing Stephen Hawking but not actually interviewing him. I believe this is part one but the other parts can be easily clicked on when part one ends:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO6KyK_o5y0

Last but not least, I believe in the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. To me, that is a no brainer.
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I don't know about your last line here, your experience with your 2 year old son being placed in CCLA's cadet org while you were doing your routing form to route in was right up there with the most interesting experiences here on ESMB. Also, some things you PMed me are extremely interesting as well. Certainly, being a philosophy professor at a major university had to have some very interesting moments.

A couple more points to make, I'm about to be a bit demeaning here but if you don't care to succeed or to fail, why not just opt for succeeding. I mean if neither one matters much to you, you might as well opt for success. all other things being equal. If nothing else, it would give you more money but I believe that it would do more than that.

On your comment that it is all out of your control, we have already established the Carmelo Principle that the more people you connect with the more control more size and influence you will possess. Also, where you go to launch your career is something you can control. Go to Paris rather than Timbuktu, go to San Francisco or LA rather than Mongolia. Where you go, who you meet, just those 2 things give you some control right there.
Lakey

I never said my two year old was in Cadet Org? Is that the nursery? He went into the nursery only briefly. Looked so bad that there was no way I could have sent him back for even one more day. And I don't recall saying that I was doing any routing form? I think what I said was that they were attempting to recruit me for the billion year contract thing but it was not working for them. As for proffing for a while, yes that was fun to do, to be an adjunct. Although I am enjoying all this time off it would be nice for the unemployment to end soon too.... I had a dream I was teaching but it was not here on this planet as far as I can tell. At least I am working in some parallel world!

I've seen the future and it is good. Everything will turn out however it should.

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Another of the somewhat curious things about, oh, call it Dr. Hubbardism, is that some say one of the real challenges is that Dr Hubbard Hisself locked his work in a way that didn't allow 'progress' of that 'science' therefore it tends to become dated & not benefit from the latest advances that passage of time that others avail to their work.

Wow. That sounds so "logical " ! There it is !

That holds until one notices the I Ching dates from, what, 1150 BC ?

One could argue the New Testament has been shifted a few times. OK .

Plato ? Aristotle ? So many of real worth have stood the test of time.

Many centuries not a few decades.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I know all this logical arguing grates on a lot of people's nerves and turns them off, I do it anyway. One reason is my age vis a vis my memory and my mind. The logical arguing seems to be similar to what attorneys do in court. To take an argument and be able to rephrase it or to take someone else's view which at first glance seem of rock solid logic and then analyze it make it one's own and then find a possible hole in their argument just makes me feel smarter and sharper. It sort of reverses the aging process for me both as regards my memory and as regards IQ. I know I am much smarter now than when I got here 6 years ago. My memory is better, I grasp concepts quicker and see things deeper. I THINK OPEN PANEL DISCUSSION BOARDS CAN BE AN EXCELLENT METHOD TO GET EDUCATED AND AN EXCELLENT WAY TO KEEP ONE'S MIND SHARP.

Both my son and my ex wife are lawyers and when a legal issue comes up, I don't want to be left out of the discussion so I have sort of taught myself to think like an attorney. It's being done because I am not working right now. When I get busier, hopefully I won't have the time for it any longer.

I am very aware that some are turned off, but a few, who are pretty logical themselves, such as Enthetan for example or yourself, Maria. always come back with some interesting replies. If the person is hostile, I no longer do the above. I was doing that for a long time and making a lot of enemies. Basically I will only do it if I like and respect a person or if I at least like their last post.

I agree with you on the fun quotient, its a lot of fun to find someone who you can verbally joust with, I mean with the right person, there is nothing quite like it! I also agree as to the importance of it, its far more fun than important!! As to worrying about whether people like it or not, fuck a duck, I don't care about that either. This is a message board, I am the OP and I'll write whatever I feel like. If someone doesn't like it, more power to them, just skip over it. I paid my dues here and I'll write whatever I want except for violating ESMB guidelines but if someone requests me to delete something I wrote, I will always comply if their reason is valid.

What was that, Maria, which you wrote in a small font? It's too small to read but I have a message for you in small font too. Less than 7,800 to go!
Lakey

Of course a disarming wit can always win an argument without need to raise an argument..... I think the entire art of the salon has to do with winning one's point without having made it..... simply wanting something, then forgetting about it, letting that float in the aether....then, surprise, it happens!

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Another of the somewhat curious things about, oh, call it Dr. Hubbardism, is that some say one of the real challenges is that Dr Hubbard Hisself locked his work in a way that didn't allow 'progress' of that 'science' therefore it tends to become dated & not benefit from the latest advances that passage of time that others avail to their work.

Wow. That sounds so "logical " ! There it is !

That holds until one notices the I Ching dates from, what, 1150 BC ?

One could argue the New Testament has been shifted a few times. OK .

Plato ? Aristotle ? So many of real worth have stood the test of time.

Many centuries not a few decades.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

I once had a very weird little experience/dream reading Plato in bed.

I had been working for a couple of months on a paper, daily, for hours either reading or writing.
(The paper was about dreaming in Plato's Phaedo dialogue but I think I was reading the Republic when this happened.)
That day I read 2-3 pages from Plato and put the book down. I remember thinking, "hm, I've never seen this before."
And I remember being a bit baffled, since as I have read all of Plato, whatever I had just read
had not been there before.

Later on that day I searched for those pages. 2-3 times over the next year I tried again to find the passage.
Never found it. So I assumed I had a lucid dream...

Those non-existent pages were interesting though.
They explained via anecdote a man of honor in commerce and in war.
The main idea was how to discern nobility in another.

That's all I remember about it. I hope it served
it's purpose, that I learned what I needed to learn.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Maria, just two comments on this post but first a comment on a post just earlier where you said that you found the concept of one of anything quite unusual. I agree with that comment except for one special case which is the word "universe". I believe the original sense of that word had to do with the entirety of ALL things. I think we need a word for something that encompasses all things, even including God, worm holes, parallel universes, more than 3 spatial dimension, etc.. No matter what is being discussed, everything has to, by definition, be part of that universe. I propose that we capitalize the letter "U" in that definition of the Universe and for all sub universes use a lower case "u".

I heard Hawking being interviewed by Denis Prager on his morning radio talk show about 3 times. Denis also interviewed two other well known university trained specialists on theories of origins of the universe. One guy I thought was terrible but Hawking seemed very plausible as the third gentleman seemed. One of the started out in has career denying God and then changed his mind. Was that Hawking? He believed in the Big Bang Theory and had sort of an epiphany when he realized that all the constants of physics and chemistry would have to had been pre programmed into the primordial ball of condensed matter which exploded. In other words, when the explosion took place, the freezing and boiling points of water, the velocity of light, the speed of sound in air, Avogadro's number, all freezing and melting points. DNA patterns, gene patters, every constant in this Universe would have had to be pre programmed into the matter before the explosion occurred. The scientists could find no explanation for this other than intelligent design and thus changed his beliefs.

Here is a link to Denis discussing Stephen Hawking but not actually interviewing him. I believe this is part one but the other parts can be easily clicked on when part one ends:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO6KyK_o5y0

Last but not least, I believe in the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. To me, that is a no brainer.
Lakey

I think the new word now is the multi-verse. Or the verse for short.

Did you know that the "mathematical universe hypothesis" relies to a high degree on a radical Platonism to work? It is platonic, and outright assumes that math is external to the universe, just as Plato assumed the forms are external to the universe. Of course Plato felt that the forms are math so perhaps it all comes down to the same thing. Perhaps this means that for these scientists, god is math?

I doubt Hawking believes in God, although really, what difference does it make? We are here, immersed in 'reality'. We find out the truth of things as it all unfolds (the cosmos, life, etc.) I guess I am tired of caring about topics such as atheist or believer or camel-trainer or whatever. The emotional universe of love appeals to me more than the mechanical one, which is why I prefer not to be an atheist.... but each being is different and it would be quite dull if we all showed up at the party wearing the same outfit. (All of this is just talking to myself, not criticizing what you said....just thinking out loud.)

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: Ex-Scientologists Discuss The Significance of Everything

How appealing ! More than just discuss some seem mired in the significance of it all to them.

What seems to be fascinating is there are those who remain locked in Dr. Hubbards specialized word usage.

I often wonder do they feel those words are of particular significance or that those words keep them in contact with what they believe - or want to believe ?

Other days, it seems like some people want to say that not only did they study dianetics, they word cleared it, they did demos, they did clay demos, they worked over dolls or walls gaining the ability to 'do it', they did drills to a "pass" & at last audited other students.
Then they went on to an internship armed with meter drills, R3R drills, this that & the other code plus KSW to do this stuff under the watchful eye of video. Most ended up passing to become full fledged "auditors" & only very rarely was one removed for not making the grade.

That some pretty through indoctrination, training & supervision to get 'er done like the Dr Hubbard said do it. Lotsa work went into getting there !

Ah, erasure.....postulate off...... earlier similar... past lives & all those things but most importantly the RESULTS as Dr Hubbard said there were.

Dianetic clear ? Of course ! Exactly as was stated ( well, defined several different times in different ways ).

Nevermind the first half of Dianetics is damn near a word for word copy of another persons work who, BTW, abandoned it as unworkable.

Or Freud ( and others ) who abandoned Aberrational Therapy as a path to not be on.

Then move on the much vaulted OT levels & find out the TA going up in dianetics was really BT's & clusters getting restimulated while the TA coming down was them blowing off !

Oh little did dianetic auditors know they really handling OT level stuff with R3R !

There comes the question is it person has invested so much time, some money, perhaps some relationships, but, certainly of themselves into this, oh, call it STUDY ... that they can never really really bring themselves to abandon it ?

Would that be admitting one was, well, flat out wrong in their own decision to go down that road ? Yes, still wrong even if - and they were - mis-led, deceived lied to & conned.

It really couldn't be that this training was the peak of the individuals mental capacity as many already had college degrees, advanced degrees & careers that required more than average intelligence.

Throw in the "help button" that most people have getting stomped hard- That help others ! Maybe some desire to better oneself if not reach some promised god-like state ( or status ).


The whole of the experience tends to get mired in significance of one self & of the study of the volume of materials Dr Hubbard attributes only to Himself.


The significance of the significance is indeed significant !


Perhaps the EP is to leave it at " Yes, some people do believe ( whatever ) " & just move on with the love of life.

giz

Let us count all the grains of sand existing in the universe......

When finished, please begin again.....


(For those who need the extra info, the above is a joke. I am not saying "discuss". I am not issuing a command, just playing with the madness that is the concept of the 'bridge'.)

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: Ex-Scientologists Discuss The Significance of Everything

How appealing ! More than just discuss some seem mired in the significance of it all to them.

What seems to be fascinating is there are those who remain locked in Dr. Hubbards specialized word usage.

I often wonder do they feel those words are of particular significance or that those words keep them in contact with what they believe - or want to believe ?

The problem of being on this forum is that it caused me to remember said words, terminology, the illogic of its logic....the insignificance of its significance.....sigh.
I could be doing such better things....and I probably will be.....

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I never said my two year old was in Cadet Org? Is that the nursery? He went into the nursery only briefly. Looked so bad that there was no way I could have sent him back for even one more day. And I don't recall saying that I was doing any routing form? I think what I said was that they were attempting to recruit me for the billion year contract thing but it was not working for them. As for proffing for a while, yes that was fun to do, to be an adjunct. Although I am enjoying all this time off it would be nice for the unemployment to end soon too.... I had a dream I was teaching but it was not here on this planet as far as I can tell. At least I am working in some parallel world!

I've seen the future and it is good. Everything will turn out however it should.

Maria, yes the nursery is part of the Cadet Org. I believe the Cadet Org has an "In Charge", called an IC. Serving under the IC could be one or more Nannies but usually the IC holds down the Nanny post from above. I have heard of just one person being assigned to be in charge of as many as 35 children. The S.O. tended to regard the nursery as a nuisance because it did not contribute at all to any of the Org's stats but in fact tended to hinder production This state of affairs eventually led to the S.O changing the rules so that S.O. members were not allowed to have children and those who did have small children had their family time cut to almost nothing.

I should have written that your 2 year old was placed in the nursery, sorry about that. As I recall you were away from you child for about 5 hours. The only thing I could think of which would cause you to be away from your son for such a long time, when first arriving at CCLA would be that you were put onto a routing form. Even if you were only going to see the recruiter wouldn't they still put you on a routing form? If you simply walked in the front door and told reception that you were supposed to see the S.O. recruiter and the receptionist body routed you to the recruiter, that's the only way which you could have avoided a routing form. If that was what happened, then my assumption was wrong and I apologize for that.

My point was that when you first arrived on ESMB, you had some interesting experiences to tell us and I cited a couple of examples. If I got a few details wrong, I apologize. Your comments about the future are excellent, I am very happy for you!
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Of course a disarming wit can always win an argument without need to raise an argument..... I think the entire art of the salon has to do with winning one's point without having made it..... simply wanting something, then forgetting about it, letting that float in the aether....then, surprise, it happens!

Excellent point!! Very sage advice!!
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Maria, yes the nursery is part of the Cadet Org. I believe the Cadet Org has an "In Charge", called an IC. Serving under the IC could be one or more Nannies but usually the IC holds down the Nanny post from above. I have heard of just one person being assigned to be in charge of as many as 35 children. The S.O. tended to regard the nursery as a nuisance because it did not contribute at all to any of the Org's stats but in fact tended to hinder production This state of affairs eventually led to the S.O changing the rules so that S.O. members were not allowed to have children and those who did have small children had their family time cut to almost nothing.

I should have written that your 2 year old was placed in the nursery, sorry about that. As I recall you were away from you child for about 5 hours. The only thing I could think of which would cause you to be away from your son for such a long time, when first arriving at CCLA would be that you were put onto a routing form. Even if you were only going to see the recruiter wouldn't they still put you on a routing form? If you simply walked in the front door and told reception that you were supposed to see the S.O. recruiter and the receptionist body routed you to the recruiter, that's the only way which you could have avoided a routing form. If that was what happened, then my assumption was wrong and I apologize for that.

My point was that when you first arrived on ESMB, you had some interesting experiences to tell us and I cited a couple of examples. If I got a few details wrong, I apologize. Your comments about the future are excellent, I am very happy for you!
Lakey

No, they were trying to recover me, so that I would be an auditor or C/S at CCLA (to my recollection). They flew me in and that is when I realized they wanted me to do SO. For some reason I thought I could go there on a freelance basis and NOT have to do SO. I was there for 2-3 weeks and usually my son just stayed with me....Not sure why they wanted him in the nursery. I don't remember being on cans or getting any processes or Sec Checks but I do remember speaking to an Ethics Officer more than once. Perhaps I was supposed to do conditions and joining the SO was the EP? It was so long ago I barely remember.

It was weird since hardly anyone seemed to talk to me and I had no specific place to be. I was just sort of hanging out. Yet I was given a free room (and staff meals)! I remember because the room was on a high floor and the window rolled open but had no screen, meaning that since my child was so little, I could never open the window for fear he'd fall down, 8 or so floors I think. Or was it 13? How many floors did that place have?

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I know I had a lot of free time to waste because I'd sit around in the lobby listening to that musician play "On the Wings of Love."

Apparently he had married an SO member so it was hard for him as a celebrity to see her. Often they would go have lunch on the lawn outside by themselves. I remember because now and then I was on the lawn just sitting and I'd see them, near the building, but outside, eating their sandwiches or whatever. (Maybe that memory helps establish 'when' I was there.) I saw Lisa Marie daily at lunch and she never smiled except to say or nod hello to me since often she and I were the only ones there. I was not on a service and not on staff so I ended up sitting in the little cafe alone a lot, which is why I would see her at odd times. I never tried to talk to her as I would find it rude to bother anyone that way.

I remember my room was above and looking down on the middle of a courtyard, just to get a sense of where my room might have been, such that when I looked down from the window I could see a central garden area (not super large) filled with rose bushes directly under me.

 

[Gizmo]

Re: Ex-Scientologists Discuss The Significance of Everything

The problem of being on this forum is that it caused me to remember said words, terminology, the illogic of its logic....the insignificance of its significance.....sigh.
I could be doing such better things....and I probably will be.....

I grok that .

I suspect one day soon I'll just drift away from here.

Hearing other be supportive of something I've long since come to see has no use or value to me leads me to question the value of
massaging old wounds.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I know I had a lot of free time to waste because I'd sit around in the lobby listening to that musician play "On the Wings of Love."

Apparently he had married an SO member so it was hard for him as a celebrity to see her. Often they would go have lunch on the lawn outside by themselves. I remember because now and then I was on the lawn just sitting and I'd see them, near the building, but outside, eating their sandwiches or whatever. (Maybe that memory helps establish 'when' I was there.) I saw Lisa Marie daily at lunch and she never smiled except to say or nod hello to me since often she and I were the only ones there. I was not on a service and not on staff so I ended up sitting in the little cafe alone a lot, which is why I would see her at odd times. I never tried to talk to her as I would find it rude to bother anyone that way.

I remember my room was above and looking down on the middle of a courtyard, just to get a sense of where my room might have been, such that when I looked down from the window I could see a central garden area (not super large) filled with rose bushes directly under me.

Thanks for the nice descriptions, it sure is a beautiful building with beautiful grounds, I will concede them that much. One of those opera singer sisters whom I knew well gave a recital there in 1977 in that beautiful building with a piano which opened up to the beautiful grounds to the rear of the property. That little cafe where you ate alone a lot was were I stayed while my daughter, then 14 was upstairs taking the student hat course. I brought my suitcase from work and worked on designs and estimates for room additions while my daughter was upstairs supposedly on course. Her course schedule was 9:30 to 5:00, the year was 2001. Already, even then I was an old timer, having for for CCLA from 1970 to 1973. Only two employees were still there from my time period, Kathy Garcia, the head registrar and Pamela Lancaster, a large redhead who had a spectacular singing voice. Pan was probably about 21 when I first met her around 1971 so she was about 50 back in 2001. She had found the Fountain of Youth because she had hardly had aged at all in the intervening 30 years. She stilled looked no more than 30.

My daughter received good service the first 3 weeks but on week 4, she was taken out of the courseroom without my knowledge or permission to watch an S.O Recruitment film and then go see a recruiter. The ED of CCLA ordered all young students removed from course and to be driven about a mile to an S.O. berthing building. I was her parent was not even notified or asked for my approval. If asked I would have denied it. They bypassed me on my Father Hat when I was being what I thought was an exemplary Father. I was enraged demanded to speak to the ED, Dave Pettit and that rat assed bastard would not even agree to talk to me. That was my cue to get the hell out of CoS. We never set foot in CCLA again although I stayed at O.C. Org and finished whatever course I was on and then routed out of there on a medical leave in 2001. I was finally DONE with that place, wild horses couldn't drag me back!

Oh hey, Maria, I believe that the Chateau Elyse building is either 7 or 8 stories tall, no way that it is 13 floors. Here is a photo of the building, It looks as if it has 7 stories plus some dormer windows above that which may mean that people can walk around in the attic. Of course the building also has a full basement. Check it out:

https://www.google.com/search?q=cha...Fmanor-scientology.org%2Fhistory.html;442;522
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Then I must have been on the sixth or seventh floor. I think I would remember if it was the top floor...but maybe I am wrong.

Thanks for the nice descriptions, it sure is a beautiful building with beautiful grounds, I will concede them that much. One of those opera singer sisters whom I knew well gave a recital there in 1977 in that beautiful building with a piano which opened up to the beautiful grounds to the rear of the property. That little cafe where you ate alone a lot was were I stayed while my daughter, then 14 was upstairs taking the student hat course. I brought my suitcase from work and worked on designs and estimates for room additions while my daughter was upstairs supposedly on course. Her course schedule was 9:30 to 5:00, the year was 2001. Already, even then I was an old timer, having for for CCLA from 1970 to 1973. Only two employees were still there from my time period, Kathy Garcia, the head registrar and Pamela Lancaster, a large redhead who had a spectacular singing voice. Pan was probably about 21 when I first met her around 1971 so she was about 50 back in 2001. She had found the Fountain of Youth because she had hardly had aged at all in the intervening 30 years. She stilled looked no more than 30.

My daughter received good service the first 3 weeks but on week 4, she was taken out of the courseroom without my knowledge or permission to watch an S.O Recruitment film and then go see a recruiter. The ED of CCLA ordered all young students removed from course and to be driven about a mile to an S.O. berthing building. I was her parent was not even notified or asked for my approval. If asked I would have denied it. They bypassed me on my Father Hat when I was being what I thought was an exemplary Father. I was enraged demanded to speak to the ED, Dave Pettit and that rat assed bastard would not even agree to talk to me. That was my cue to get the hell out of CoS. We never set foot in CCLA again although I stayed at O.C. Org and finished whatever course I was on and then routed out of there on a medical leave in 2001. I was finally DONE with that place, wild horses couldn't drag me back!

Oh hey, Maria, I believe that the Chateau Elyse building is either 7 or 8 stories tall, no way that it is 13 floors. Here is a photo of the building, It looks as if it has 7 stories plus some dormer windows above that which may mean that people can walk around in the attic. Of course the building also has a full basement. Check it out:

https://www.google.com/search?q=cha...Fmanor-scientology.org%2Fhistory.html;442;522
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The building my room was in reminded me of a T Shape (on that floor). A long hallway and then a shorter area where the elevators were, close to one end.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yes, I read it. I recommend the book.

Yes, the National Socialist German Workers Party (shortened to Nazi) and the International Socialists both wanted a totalitarian government. The major difference between them was the idea of who was to be in charge.

But the reason why the German middle class gave the Nazis power was because they were more afraid of the Communists.

And that totalitarian government was to meet with the anti force, an anarchy..... repeating a reverse pendulum swing. This is a cycle which establishes a trend where one particular condition (of existence or entity) ruled by a mind, is 'in its turn' dominated by another ( probably pre-prescribed by a postulated script...as in the Hawking suggestion) ...trying to bring it back to balance. But, oh how long it would take for that pendulum to come to rest back in the middle.

https://youtu.be/fK1pWTOlEG0

Berlin, before the brown shirts got rid of the liberal commies and the intellectual salons. The film Cabaret would be reminscent of these times with the tongue-in- cheek political remarks delivered on stage.