The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Robert Pirsig had an interesting take on Socrates in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". He saw Socrates as the last and greatest of the Sophists and a bulwark against Aristotle rather than a simpatico precursor and the first of the Rationalists. He makes a pretty good case.

The rationalists are of course the granddaddies of Scientology, in a twisted way.

Because they bought into the cult of consciousness as the highest value (since a bit before 1600) ....and Socrates was always leery of that....

But then I don't want to become a dull girl giving discourses.

Of course men can give those discourses and hold their chins knowingly....but for girls it's best to hold that margarita glass and smile.

Which of course I PREFER to do.....

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

..

See above

..

Thank you for that sponsor's message.
If only I was able to quote it properly. And here I am a programmer.
Shame. Please send me the html and I will correct the error of my ways....

sincerely,

maria

 

[Panda Termint]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Like this...

Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax!

Originally Posted by Maria Cuervo

Maybe the new me is not feminine and I should leave.
Please vote and I will abide by any decision.

Originally Posted by Socrates
Regrettably, I must recuse myself from voting because--I know that I know nothing.

Originally Posted by Plato
On the other hand, I kind of really like your kick-ass mode.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Like this...

It reads well no matter how many times I see it quoted and repeated...

thank you.

 

[Free Being Me]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Please view grudge matches and the way I was attacked on my thread FOR NO REASON except pure malice.

I choose my friends by the way people treat me.

Maybe that is wrong. But unfortunately, as an empiricist, it is all I have. How people act lets me know if to trust them with myself.
And I do like myself. So I have to be careful. For reasons I am not even revealing HERE.

If Bob is a cultist, it does not mean CO2 is a cultist. It is not logical for me.

I have friends who are christian, friends who are agnostic, friends who are atheist.

Does that make me by default any of those?

I don't know how many ways to say Carmelo-C02 is a friend of a still-in cherch osa trained spokesperson. People can do with as they will with that info filing under red flag if they are smart. It's not my responsibility to save anyone from themselves, do as you please.

 

[SPsince83]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I am tired of being nice and I have decided only to be nice if I feel like it.

There.

There is magic in the words "FUCK IT". Profanity, contrary to prudish belief, is language adults use to express explosively negative feelings about whatever. Fuck works where nothing else can express complete disdain in such a short space. It is the single most expressive word in the entire English language. It can actually mean almost ANYTHING depending on context and inflection. It can equally well express positive feelings of amazement or delight. It is one syllable of concentrated expressiveness. I use it a bit promiscuously I admit, but fuck it. Who gives a fuck? What the fuck business is it of anyfuckingbody to tell you how the fuck to be or not to be exactly who and what the fuck you want? And if you really internalize it you can say it the southern way "well bless her heart" and be sure you got it across that the person can fuck off and die.

Buck. Cluck. Duck. Fuck. Huck. Luck. Muck. Puck. Ruck. Suck. Tuck. Truck. Yuck. Which word is obscene just from the sound of it? Which ones apply to sexual activity? I'd like to buck your truck in the muck, baby?

Point is you are a free and intelligent and charming person. I like you even when I disagree with you. If you must go for your own peace of mind, I'd not like it, but I understand. I prefer you stay.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I am tired of being nice and I have decided only to be nice if I feel like it.

There.

Love your posts, darlin'.

Helena

 

[SPsince83]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The rationalists are of course the granddaddies of Scientology, in a twisted way.

Because they bought into the cult of consciousness as the highest value (since a bit before 1600) ....and Socrates was always leery of that....

But then I don't want to become a dull girl giving discourses.

Of course men can give those discourses and hold their chins knowingly....but for girls it's best to hold that margarita glass and smile.

Which of course I PREFER to do.....

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance hinges on Pirsig's battles with the faculty of the Philosophy Dept of the University of Chicago during his PhD candidacy. UC is to this day mired in a type of rationalism and Aristotlean classification obsession based on their "Great Books" program in the thirties (which turned out the odious Saul Bellow among others). Their adoption and dissemination of Austrian neoliberal economics in the persons of Hayek, von Mises and Friedman and Federalist Society jurisprudence and Randian Objectivism is symptomatic of the misguided base of Aristotle's picayune nomenclature.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance hinges on Pirsig's battles with the faculty of the Philosophy Dept of the University of Chicago during his PhD candidacy. UC is to this day mired in a type of rationalism and Aristotlean classification obsession based on their "Great Books" program in the thirties (which turned out the odious Saul Bellow among others). Their adoption and dissemination of Austrian neoliberal economics in the persons of Hayek, von Mises and Friedman and Federalist Society jurisprudence and Randian Objectivism is symptomatic of the misguided base of Aristotle's picayune nomenclature.

I have always been a Platonist more than an Aristotelian.

Although I have read all of Aristotle and admire some parts of it, and the effort involved.

But basically I feel that Aristotle did not GET Plato.

Plato was the cool one, in my book.

Very interesting about Pirsig. I did not know.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There is magic in the words "FUCK IT". Profanity, contrary to prudish belief, is language adults use to express explosively negative feelings about whatever. Fuck works where nothing else can express complete disdain in such a short space. It is the single most expressive word in the entire English language. It can actually mean almost ANYTHING depending on context and inflection. It can equally well express positive feelings of amazement or delight. It is one syllable of concentrated expressiveness. I use it a bit promiscuously I admit, but fuck it. Who gives a fuck? What the fuck business is it of anyfuckingbody to tell you how the fuck to be or not to be exactly who and what the fuck you want? And if you really internalize it you can say it the southern way "well bless her heart" and be sure you got it across that the person can fuck off and die.

Buck. Cluck. Duck. Fuck. Huck. Luck. Muck. Puck. Ruck. Suck. Tuck. Truck. Yuck. Which word is obscene just from the sound of it? Which ones apply to sexual activity? I'd like to buck your truck in the muck, baby?

Point is you are a free and intelligent and charming person. I like you even when I disagree with you. If you must go for your own peace of mind, I'd not like it, but I understand. I prefer you stay.

Fuck it. I will stay a bit more. Just from the encouragement.

Maybe after a while I will grow a new skin and learn to say Fuck It more often. Right now I am practicing.

 

[lotus]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Can Helluvahoax write the script? Please?

I just got him on phone and he's presently on duty, in place of a certain Sherman ..sherman shomething , anyway, writing a few important speechs concerning the futur of this planet , right here right now ! :confused2:

He his very popular and on demand worldwide

Should be back soon

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I don't know how many ways to say Carmelo-C02 is a friend of a still-in cherch osa trained spokesperson. People can do with as they will with that info filing under red flag if they are smart. It's not my responsibility to save anyone from themselves, do as you please.

Fair enough.

But not sure why I have to judge someone that way....I mean, Suri is related to Tom and she is not a Scientologist. So why is Carmelo, because he is friends with a still-in suddenly become evil? Aren't some of us here grieving because they have family in? And so are we saying that being 'connected' to them indicates we approve? By default? And if Scn is for disconnection, should we be? These are my valid questions.

I want to know, because there are those who have family in Scientology, or friends, and they don't want to abandon those people. They want to be there for those people.

So how is it that renouncing people who are brainwashed helps them on their journey?

And of course I am full of it myself since I have no idea what Carmelo's exact relation is to Bob or Bob's exact state of mind either so how on earth can I be sure of my opinions? Sometimes there are things only our pillow knows, while our head is resting on it.

Anyway, since I have only really met a few people here I have to continue to speak out of my ass while I figure out who the pretty asses are to kiss.....

 

[lotus]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Fair enough.

snip

Anyway, since I have only really met a few people here I have to continue to speak out of my ass while I figure out who the pretty asses are to kiss.....

Maria,

I've been around for few years now and don't have a clue if there is asses to kiss and who's ones :confused2:

But one thing I know is that I wouldn't kiss one CO$ spokesperson's ass at all , neither anyone close to them.

These may be very expensive asses to kiss
(I'd wait they come out of the cult)



Hi Carmelo , you seems like a ghost

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I have always been a Platonist more than an Aristotelian.

Although I have read all of Aristotle and admire some parts of it, and the effort involved.

But basically I feel that Aristotle did not GET Plato.

Plato was the cool one, in my book.

Very interesting about Pirsig. I did not know.

What about the Stoics? I hadn't heard of them till I read A Man in Full by Wolfe, which I liked. Mimsey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

What about the Stoics? I hadn't heard of them till I read A Man in Full by Wolfe, which I liked. Mimsey

I like the stoics.... some of them are Platonists but some are Aristotelians. And some are Christians...and some are......

It's like bloodlines. Some children look more or less like the parents.

It can't be avoided that one responds to previous philosophers and forms a family tree.

Thus the way all exes are condemned to be the children of CoS like it or not. (Including me....)
I'm not attacking it...just saying that genealogically that is how it works in philosophy and even Scientology seems to be on the smaller branches of that tree somewhere
although not the pretty branches... (in wog estimation.)

Just like Christian Science can't help being a child of both the enlightenment and Christian protestant reformation. A badly dressed child, but nonetheless.

Made a note to read Wolfe.... Had not seen it.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Maria,

I've been around for few years now and don't have a clue if there is asses to kiss and who's ones :confused2:

But one thing I know is that I wouldn't kiss one CO$ spokesperson's ass at all , neither anyone close to them.

These may be very expensive asses to kiss
(I'd wait they come out of the cult)



Hi Carmelo , you seems like a ghost

Well Lotus, if that is true, then I have no hope of getting a clue in the years to come.

While I can read French very well I doubt that it will help me in this task, since unlike you I
lack both accent and being able to speak it.

To me being able to speak French would be more important a gain.....

So while the children of some remain in the cult, then, their parents should ignore them?

And if your close friend was still in you would abandon them too?

I have no close friends in, and no family in, but if I did have a friend in I would refuse to disconnect.

(They would have to disconnect from me.)

But neither would I bow down and do conditions or RPF or whatever in order to retain those connections. Nor would I care if strangers disapproved that I kept loyal to my love of the friend.


If someone no longer loves me and can't speak to me...well then....

I will have to live with that.

 

[SPsince83]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

And regardless of their successes they are still regarded as nerdy little geeks that lack social skills. Go figure. LOL !

Don't you just hate it when people conform to a stereotype you wish wasn't illustrative? Bazinga.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

My friends are my friends. I find this to be true. That no matter what people THINK they believe, they believe something a bit different. That no matter what a friend thinks they believe they believe, I can be remain loyal to that BEING who I care about. I care less what they believe and more for the friendship.

I think it would take infinite years to KNOW another, even a person I may live with. They remain a mystery, always someone I find out about as I go along.

So how on earth could I decide on the basis of my own rejection of a 'belief system' that I KNOW for sure if someone is to be discarded as my friend? I have wog friends that did that to me. Discarded me when I joined CoS. I miss them even now, after 35 years out!!! And those friendships went away.

I speak hypothetically since I have no scientologist friends. I do know OF one person, via a distant acquaintance I don't speak to, and poor thing he IS doing his sad RPF tasks after a Comm Ev thingie. Just to avoid disconnection with his daughter and son who are SO. Same topic as my last few posts. I don't see how I should judge him for his choice, even if it would not be mine. Family is important and he won't disconnect. I can understand that.

 

[lotus]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

And if your close friend was still in you would abandon them too?

I have no close friends in, and no family in, but if I did have a friend in I would refuse to disconnect.

(They would have to disconnect from me.)

I have close friends in - the true reality is they disconnected from me - after I expressed some disagreements..after 35 years on being close..zoup...disconnection...disappeared..
no answering my phone calls, not even telling me what's happening... I suppose I am an espee and deserve it...
No family in though - lucky me !

When I was I the cult, I stood up for my friends and took some bullets to defend some of them as they were the most important to me,
but when they know I am here and read me...I've fallen into the degraded being realm

Some posts, in $cientology, demands total devotion and there is no value, no friends, no nothing out of the cause...the end justify the means!

Experiencing disconnection is something bizarre..because it's something you do ne expect or even think that people you cherish would do..imagine your son, daughter disconnect from you thinking you are an evil being :confused2:
The feeling of being disconnected to is something that destroy a part of oneselve..especially when you kid consider you a degraded being..there is no word for this...its breaking a person - mother - father- kid.
Within a few hours you loose forever the children you gave birth to!

People are ofte given a choice: Etither their eternity or the peusdo-Espee...
At this point..any lack of critical mind..is critical...as well as deep indoctrination - fear is taking control :confused2:

There is people here who have children\parents still in the cult, some desperately made public call to at least get a letter a phone call..it's heartbreaking

The only power one has is to keep hope they get out of the cult...nothing more than that! :confused2:

Some see the light some don't, some will later, some won't -sad..but reality!

I guess this might be the main reason why many people remain anonymous..avoid disconnection and work on getting their people out.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

My friends are my friends. I find this to be true. That no matter what people THINK they believe, they believe something a bit different. That no matter what a friend thinks they believe they believe, I can be remain loyal to that BEING who I care about. I care less what they believe and more for the friendship.

I think it would take infinite years to KNOW another, even a person I may live with. They remain a mystery, always someone I find out about as I go along.

So how on earth could I decide on the basis of my own rejection of a 'belief system' that I KNOW for sure if someone is to be discarded as my friend? I have wog friends that did that to me. Discarded me when I joined CoS. I miss them even now, after 35 years out!!! And those friendships went away.

I speak hypothetically since I have no scientologist friends. I do know OF one person, via a distant acquaintance I don't speak to, and poor thing he IS doing his sad RPF tasks after a Comm Ev thingie. Just to avoid disconnection with his daughter and son who are SO. Same topic as my last few posts. I don't see how I should judge him for his choice, even if it would not be mine. Family is important and he won't disconnect. I can understand that.

Outstanding post, one of your best ever IMO! This post also helped clear up for me an earlier question I had about you. If people inside CoS were allowed to read this post of yours, either
disconnection in Cos would be totally cancelled or many scientologists would quickly become ex Scientologists.
Lakey