Marty Rathbun raises his head, and starts squawking

[lotus]

Do you think Marty had made due amends in due time by now ????

Will he be offer a new post in the rehabilitation project to help people to rehabilitate themselve and recover a new happier life ????

Marty is truly a modest person, he never told us about those many years he contributed to help people rehabilitate in what ASC falsely call prison and slave work...He has been called an enforcer all those years he was devoted to ''devoted missionaries of the clergy'' betterment and atonement.
Here is one of the ''very happy'' person who had been fortunately rehabilitated, as Marty reported...
Nice testimony, very similar to the dozens other Sea Org member provided us with...

[video]http://dai.ly/x2puena[/video]

Thousands of people all the world can't wait to be chosen and join the beautiful program...

 

[Gib]

Marty states on Part 7, at 2:38:

"At St. Hill"... "He said there were Messengers running messages back and forth. There was no such thing as the Commodores Messenger Org in 1972 anywhere but on the Apollo, on the ship in the Mediterranean."

Not that big mouth Rathbun was even in the SEA ORG until 1978 (and only involved with scn for a short time as public before that), but ... RILEY?

There clearly was a children's land-based work force of Sea Org members in 1972. Whether they were called Cadets or Messengers makes no difference. It was the same thing, a separate children's work force to serve L Ron Hubbard and Scientology. Yes, the cute little kids in SO uniforms were there in 1972 running messages back and forth. So you're wrong again, Marty. Yes, in 1972 the SO children messengers were there on land - at St Hill and at Flag.

By 1974, there was an RPF estabished for it, so the kids wouldn't miss out on the severe degradation and punishment:

And L Ron said he never had a second wife, so maybe in your next vid you'll tell us that, too.
Keep goin', Marty...

Thanks for that post Sheila. Quite interesting Hubbard's Flag Order is "parents" hat. In reading thru those Flag Orders, I'm like OMG. Here Hubbard said your job as a parent is to follow this Flag Order. My questions, What about self determinism that Hubbard preached about in such books as Problems of Work, Dianetics, many others and thru his lectures?

Here in these Flag Orders Hubbard so adroitly has parents turn their kids into Scientology Ronbots, or the CMO, children of the corn.

Hey Marty and DM, are you a Ronbot?

 

[ILove2Lurk]

. . .
Post #11 video comment . . .

After Marty is done trashing Going Clear and Lawrence Wright . . .
he should go through the works of William Shakespeare, The Bard
of Avon, and clear up any and all historical inaccuracies and mistakes.

:wink2:

 

[I told you I was trouble]

. . .
Post #11 video comment . . .

After Marty is done trashing Going Clear and Lawrence Wright . . .
he should go through the works of William Shakespeare, The Bard
of Avon, and clear up any and all historical inaccuracies and mistakes.

:wink2:

View attachment 13551

Just logged on, read that and fell straight off my chair ...

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Snipped.

There clearly was a children's land-based work force of Sea Org members in 1972. Whether they were called Cadets or Messengers makes no difference. It was the same thing, a separate children's work force to serve L Ron Hubbard and Scientology. Yes, the cute little kids in SO uniforms were there in 1972 running messages back and forth. So you're wrong again, Marty. Yes, in 1972 the SO children messengers were there on land - at St Hill and at Flag.

By 1974, there was an RPF estabished for it, so the kids wouldn't miss out on the severe degradation and punishment:

Thanks for correcting that ... children were often used as "Communicators" (which is much the same thing as "Messengers") in both non SO and SO orgs all over the world, I can't believe he bothered to mention that, it's so easy to disprove ... I expect we have members here who were put to work as children back then running messages as well as doing many other things.

I suppose by throwing all this incorrect information (lies) out there they're just attempting to muddy the water and add major confusion to the exposure on the cult in the hope that people (never ins who don't really care one way or the other) will just lose interest and I expect that will be the result but I also believe they will be disgusted and see straight through what the cofs (via Marty) are trying to do. People are a lot more savvy these days and the cofs will find out that trying to slam the stable door shut after the horse has bolted doesn't make a lot of sense ... and they can't hire a red hot PR firm to try and fix it, they are forced to keep dragging out the same tired, old, aggressive, crap policies and replaying them ... I LOVE that.

This palaver is not going to reverse the all important "new people in" statistic any time soon that's for sure.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Given what's transpired in recent years I doubt that Miscavige will EVER trust Marty again to the point where he'll put him in a position of trust.

Marty can do A to E seven times over but will never capture his #2 position within the CoS back, certainly not within the next 75 trillion years.

To me it seems obvious that yeah, Marty sold out and did a deal with Miscavige, which I'm sure benefits both of them. A LOT.

And while he might utilize Marty for certain things given his previous experience, I doubt that Marty will ever go back to the INT base, or even be allowed to be directly connected to regular scientologists again.

Hubbard's policy on SP's requires that one always leaves the door open a crack for them, but I doubt after exposing Miscavige, Scientology, and the CoS in the way that Marty did on his blog for years, he cannot ever go back to the way things were before.

Marty may have a comfortable retirement from the arrangement they made, but from a Scientological point of view - he's lost his "eternity". But given all he's written in recent years, I doubt he cares. He knows that the promises from Hubbard aren't worth a wooden nickel. But he'll just wear the hat of Puppet and say whatever Miscavige wants him to say as on these videos.

I still don't see (or missed entirely) any evidence that Marty is "going back" into being a Scientologist.

I think re-joining Scientology has nothing at all to do with making videos for fun and profit.

Two entirely separate subjects.

Did I miss something?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I'd be nervous. What's to keep the Church from reneging on any deal once they got all the self inflicted Dead Agenting vids? With no credibility left what would he do? Put out a bunch of vids on how the vids were a pretense?

Well if Marty were 10% as savvy in legal matters as he thinks he is, he would absolutely know:

a) No deal unless he has a very top flight attorney to review and sign off on the deal structure.

b) What lawyer wouldn't require the funds to be escrowed (guaranteeing distributions if Marty upholds his side of the bargain) by a reputable third part fiduciary (law firm) or escrow company?

If there wasn't any escrow, a competent attorney would want to have a pledge of security or collateral in place that was "collectible" in a default. Like having all the corporate entities of Scientology sign off on it and/or 1st position liens on unencumbered real estate, et al.

So, that would take it out of the hands of the diabolical double-crossing COS (Crimewave of Scientology).

 

[I told you I was trouble]

I still don't see (or missed entirely) any evidence that Marty is "going back" into being a Scientologist.

I think re-joining Scientology has nothing at all to do with making videos for fun and profit.

Two entirely separate subjects.

Did I miss something?

I'm pretty sure Type4_PTS is saying that Marty will never be allowed back or ever want to go back to scientology (and why would he?).

I doubt either of them will ever trust each other again (and neither should they).

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Marty states on Part 7, at 2:38:

"At St. Hill"... "He said there were Messengers running messages back and forth. There was no such thing as the Commodores Messenger Org in 1972 anywhere but on the Apollo, on the ship in the Mediterranean."

Not that big mouth Rathbun was even in the SEA ORG until 1978 (and only involved with scn for a short time as public before that), but ... RILEY?

There clearly was a children's land-based work force of Sea Org members in 1972. Whether they were called Cadets or Messengers makes no difference. It was the same thing, a separate children's work force to serve L Ron Hubbard and Scientology. Yes, the cute little kids in SO uniforms were there in 1972 running messages back and forth. So you're wrong again, Marty. Yes, in 1972 the SO children messengers were there on land - at St Hill and at Flag.

By 1974, there was an RPF estabished for it, so the kids wouldn't miss out on the severe degradation and punishment:

And L Ron said he never had a second wife, so maybe in your next vid you'll tell us that, too.
Keep goin', Marty...

Good post!

Add to that, another equally compelling argument. . .

"At St. Hill"... "He said there were Messengers running messages back and forth. There was no such thing as the Commodores Messenger Org in 1972 anywhere but on the Apollo, on the ship in the Mediterranean."

What if Wright was using the word "messengers" to refer to Missionaires. In 1972, major revenue orgs frequently had missionaires sent in (teams) from LRH/Flag to handle the org, boom stats, slam in ethics or whatever was the latest greatest "surefire solution" to make planetary clearing a reality.

There is no real difference if the Sea Org members in an org (other than regular staff) were execs in the CMO (Commodore's Messenger Org) or whether they were missionaires "fired from Flag". Both had ultimate seniority on the Command Channel, so to a local staff member, it wouldn't make any difference.

If Wright used a slightly wrong post descriptive ("messenger" instead of "missionaire") that would not change anything about the story being reported.

It is even possible that the witness Wright relied on for his research (and almost certainly audiotaped) even said "Missionaire"--and Wright mistakenly thought they said "Messenger", since both might sound nearly identical on imperfectly recorded and/or replayed audiotape.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I'm pretty sure Type4_PTS is saying that Marty will never be allowed back or ever want to go back to scientology (and why would he?).

I doubt either of them will ever trust each other again (and neither should they).

Oh, damn! Then I entirely misread Type4_PTS' post. But I also saw other posts that referenced Marty doing "A to E" so maybe I lumped all those posts together.

My time track has apparently collapsed, maybe I should do A-E and stay in long enough just to get a Review to repair my File Clerk? LOL

 

[I told you I was trouble]

One thing is pretty much certain ... despite the intro video and his assurance that he's doing this through choice (or whatever he said to make sure we knew he was in charge, lol) Marty is really just being put to work to "correct" whatever miscavige orders him to "correct" and for whatever reason miscavige deems fit ... it doesn't have to make sense (it'd be more of a worry if it did).

 

[Type4_PTS]

Oh, damn! Then I entirely misread Type4_PTS' post. But I also saw other posts that referenced Marty doing "A to E" so maybe I lumped all those posts together.

My time track has apparently collapsed, maybe I should do A-E and stay in long enough just to get a Review to repair my File Clerk? LOL

ITYIWT is correct, I was responding to someone that was suggesting that maybe Marty was just "pretending" to do A to E, and really, I'm responding to anyone suggesting that he was doing A to E to get back into Good Standing.

I don't believe that that IS something Marty would want.

And even if he wanted it it's not an option to him.

It will take trillions of years for him to make up for the damage before Miscavige would ever trust him again, and maybe not even at that point.

What transpired though between Marty and DM had nothing to do with Scientology really; it was a simple business transaction.

Veda nailed it when he wrote:

Marty has sold his soul.

EDIT (to add following song "When you leave that way you can never go back"):

[video=youtube;FiOBtOUUukM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiOBtOUUukM[/video]

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

IMHO, this Thread is ESMB at its' very finest.

I'm long of tooth and just don't have the focus, stamina and contributive content anymore to Post much these days but, I do check in periodically to see "what's the buzz" and have been reading this Thread for the last few days. I am woefully remiss in not clicking "Thank", "Like" and/or "LOL!" on any of the hundreds of brilliant, informative, thoughtful, insightful, documented and Oscar Wilde/Mark Twain/George Orwell, etc. caliber wit, humor and satire Posted by so many of all y'all in hundreds of Posts.

Over the last 7+ years, I've pretty much had my say about my life and times in personal service to El Ron, being in the SO on the Apollo, 2 decades in Scn and personal interaction with Marty during his first few years in the SO.

I've not watched the Marty Videos and, quite frankly, have zero personal interest in doing so. During the last 7 years during Marty's self-promoted "Incarnations", I've repeatedly Posted that I will never trust Marty and why. Sadly, Marty's latest "Incarnation" is of no surprise or shock to me.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...Happy-Thetan&p=1139959&viewfull=1#post1139959


When Marty moved from Ingleside to Bulverde (in Jeffrey's home County) I Posted that, IMHO, a trap was being laid. When the trap was sprung, I Posted that Mosey's(?) Lawsuit would end in a settlement. When Mosey(?) withdrew from the Lawsuit and Marty publicly--ad nausea--stated there was no "Settlement" and that the Attorneys had "F'd it up", I Posted that there was "Pro" and somewhere, somehow in there was gonna be some form of "Quid".

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-gone-silent&p=1136417&viewfull=1#post1136417


Now, I'm not real smart (which is abundantly evident from my 4,500+ ESMB Posts) and certainly not prophetic but, I do have my "Take" on Marty from personal interaction and observation when he was a Newbie SO Member and Scn, and that has not changed one iota throughout his multiple, self-serving and self-aggrandizing "Incarnations".

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ientologists&p=1104472&viewfull=1#post1104472


Anyone--Ex, Indie or Scn--that has ever trusted Marty has my sympathy, empathy and pity...That is not said as someone that thinks they have some lofty, pristine and superior insight...Quite the contrary. Believe me, I know what it's like to get "taken". Yours truly spent 2 decades trusting and some years--off and on--personally interacting with, directly observing and working around El Ron. I've been long gone for over 3 decades and it took nearly 2 decades of that living, reflecting, then a decade of the the internet and ESMB (and all y'all great Folks here) to come to terms with that.

I've Posted over 100,000 words of my reminiscences, stories and "Takes" re: El Ron, SO, Scn and "the old days" on ESMB over the years. I am one of the "Old Timers" that is culpable for enabling and protecting El Ron in fostering and forwarding the Cult so that Scn was the ready-made "Venus Fly Trap" for the likes of Dm's and Marty's to thrive within.

IMO, El Ron and Scn, fundamentally, did not make the likes of DM...Nor did it, fundamentally, make Marty the way he has repeatedly proven to be. El Ron was amoral and preyed upon the basic human decency of others...As does DM...As Does Marty.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ientologists&p=1105174&viewfull=1#post1105174


Face

EDIT PS: Scn, Scns and the Cof$ is the ONLY way Marty knows how to make a living. He was one of the "Bonus Babies" at Int, he cultivated "fringe", "disaffected" and FZ PC's for his initial "Practice" (even "Prospected" ESMB), cleverly solicited donations and financial support from the Indie Field and exes rich and poor, and judiciously sought out "heroic" personas to position himself with, causes célèbre to usurp and--most assuredly--cultivated "Private Placements".

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Marty Rathbun's just a name to me, but essentially, the story here is that he was a one-time big shot in the SO who started off spilling the beans and embarrassing the CofS and then recently (for reasons unknown) suddenly started issuing a series of videos saying that everything he'd said in the past was a load of bull, the CofS was cool really and all the people attacking them are and were SPs? Have I got that right?

 

[ThetanExterior]

What I find strange is Marty has obviously spent a lot of time studying the book Going Clear page by page and writing down specific points to talk about yet he doesn't seem to have done any fact checking.

The result is that people like Tony Ortega and Karen de la Carriere are taking his "facts" and smashing them out of the park and producing real facts for everyone to see.

 

[RogerB]

Snipped . . .

Here is the original Anderson Report published 28 Nov 1963 in full, if that helps:
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/audit/ar01.html

After the original Melbourne Inquiry in 1963, there were various legal rebuttals and appeals to it. A suit was brought against Anderson and others in 1971. 1972 was, from what I could find, the very last time there was a legal challenge concerning it (Hubbard Association of Scientologists International v Anderson and Just (No 2) [1972] VR 577) when the Victorian Parliament passed special legislation to give the two immunity from these writs.

That didn't stop the notorious convicted FBI infiltrator, Jane Kember, former Guardian WW of the Church of Scientology from attempting to have the report removed from a library in 1973, though. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderson_Report

If Marty's references to the Anderson Report is based on Jane Kember's version of events, he might consider using authorities who aren't former felons convicted of espionage against the US government. Marty is probably using Scientology's own published spin on this, which is here: https://books.google.com/books?id=_...ved=0ahUKEwjpnarFr77UAhWD8CYKHQZKCXUQ6AEIKDAA

So back to Cameron, I'm pretty sure I've finally found who this is and what Marty is yacking on about. Dr. Donald Ewan Cameron (known as Dr. D Ewan Cameron or Ewan Cameron) was a Scottish psychiatrist who worked on "Project MK Ultra" experimenting with LSD and ECT as well as hypnotic methods on actual people. Really sick stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra Cameron was sued by his former patients in the 80s. Dr. Donald Ewan Cameron was SEE ALSO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Ewen_Cameron

So Marty is, I suppose, trying to force some tenous connection between Cameron and Hubbard and Scientology and the Victorian Inquiry ... but it's just not there. He must be reading some sort of Scientology propaganda script they provided him or like I said, he's really gone over the deep end. He always did seem to have a confusion between psychiatry and psychology (most Scientologists do, you know) and there was a Psychological Practices Act in effect in Melbourne at the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scien...5_Victorian_Board_of_Inquiry_into_Scientology

Nothing to do with the notorious Dr. Cameron. Marty's got this all screwed up, as usual.

Marty's possibly having a fit about THIS Tony Ortega article regarding Steve Cannane and the Melbourne Inquiry: http://tonyortega.org/2014/12/05/st...book-news-and-helps-us-with-a-history-lesson/

So there you go. I took my time with this and when I do, I'm thorough, a real detail nut. I hope this info helps.

Added: Here is the detailed Wiki reference on the Victoria Board of Inquiry, where Dax is mentioned in the first sentence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scien...5_Victorian_Board_of_Inquiry_into_Scientology

Sweetness, we need to be careful and exact in our dates . . .

That date you gave which I highlighted in red above is NOT the date of the published findings of the inquiry. It is the date that the Victorian government "Council" ORDERED THE INQUIRY TO BE CONDUCTED. Look at the opening line of the Anderson Report you linked:

[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]This Board of Inquiry into Scientology was appointed by Order in Council made the 27th November, 1963, and published in the Victoria Government Gazette of the 28th November, 1963, No. 931, at p. 3547. The Order in Council was in the following terms:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]
The actual publication of the findings of the inquiry, which ran about 18 months, was made nearly 2 years later in 1965.

This I know because I was a witness before the Board, being (the only to be) subpoenaed, to appear.

I spent 3 days before the Board.

I know for a fact that Steve Cannane read and researched every word of the transcript of the inquiry. Further, I provided him with my record (written) of my examination and testimony . . . but the gig became that my whole testimony and cross examination before the Board ended up "in camera" and not in the Official transcript. I also provided Steve with the rebuttal by the CofS published in a booklet by them in the title of: KANGAROO COURT: An Investigation into the Conduct of the Board of Inquiry Scientology.

Steve wisely chose not to bore the eyeballs out of his readers with what is available from the Inquiry transcript . . . it's all bloody boring; but findings as published are of use and interest to history, some of which he referred to.

Steve wisely chose to write a real page turner dealing with the truths of what happened to key individuals and their history in Scientology's development. There was a lot more he could have written, but he wisely chose to not do an encyclopedia monster. He kept his work exciting and interesting.

Seeing Rathburn's comment about Steve's work simply demonstrates to me how inept, dishonest, and lost Rathburn is. Frankly, when I saw Rathburn saying, regarding the Melbourne Inquiry, quote: "I went through this with him (Gibney) in some detail with Ewan (or, you and) Cameron being involved in this . . . etc., and prosecutor Dax . . . etc" Firstly, I can see absolutely how made up Rathburn's statements are. He is actually making his shit up as he goes trying to discredit Gibney but actually using Steve Cannane's work as a verification that the Mel Inquiry was a witch-hunt; which it was . . . it was conducted as a witch-hunt by Anderson, Joust and Dax, et al, . . . BUT, that does not invalidate the actual FINDINGS. The findings as published are actually correct.

This point of the CONDUCT of the inquiry was as a witch-hunt, but yet the findings were correct, is something Steve and I discussed at length . . . in fact, I well remember his pointed, very pointed, questioning of me on this point in the vein that we see TV journalists do when they are challenging for truth in their interviews. Steve and I spent time in my office and at dinner here at home. Plus subsequent follow-up questions and verifications.

RogerB
/[/FONT]

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

IMHO, this Thread is ESMB at its' very finest.

Disagree.

But, now that you have joined the thread, THAT would be ESMB at its very finest!

Seriously.

Dude you are greatly loved by so many here...whether you are contributing, watching from the sidelines with popcorn--or off in the Hall of Fame somewhere.

your bud,
hh

 

[WildKat]

Dox!

Marty Rathbun's just a name to me, but essentially, the story here is that he was a one-time big shot in the SO who started off spilling the beans and embarrassing the CofS and then recently (for reasons unknown) suddenly started issuing a series of videos saying that everything he'd said in the past was a load of bull, the CofS was cool really and all the people attacking them are and were SPs? Have I got that right?

Pretty much. Marty just digs himself in deeper and deeper. Tony Ortega nails it, with dox, in this post from today.....tldr version is "Marty, were you lying in sworn testimony or are you lying now?" One word.....Perjury.

http://tonyortega.org/2017/06/15/ma...-you-about-scientology-and-judges/#more-40709

 

[Lulu Belle]

EDIT PS: Scn, Scns and the Cof$ is the ONLY way Marty knows how to make a living. He was one of the "Bonus Babies" at Int, he cultivated "fringe", "disaffected" and FZ PC's for his initial "Practice" (even "Prospected" ESMB), cleverly solicited donations and financial support from the Indie Field and exes rich and poor, and judiciously sought out "heroic" personas to position himself with, causes célèbre to usurp and--most assuredly--cultivated "Private Placements".

How true.

 

[Lurker5]

Yes, Face, deeply loved