Dean Wilbur Rhetoric Hubbard dianetics sicientology

[Gib]

It would be my unconfirmed suspicion that Rhetoric is known to sociopaths, either through their development or through other 'study' as it can be a very useful tool in persuasion. That is not to say anyone who understands and is skilled in rhetoric is a sociopath. Some use it for the benefit of others, but a sociopathic has learned and is using it to the detriment of others and to the perceived or actual benefit of the sociopath, who by definition has destructive motives added to the rhetoric.

Hubbard did so and so does David Miscavige and his OSA staff who are well trained in it. Heber Jentzsch did it, Mike Rinder did it Robert Vaughn Young did it, and definitely the scoundrel lawyers who protect it all.

Thankfully Robert Vaughn Young and, Mike Rinder more recently, had been able to shed that trained in sociopathic mindset and came around to using rhetoric for good.

The following is a good read by Robert Vaughn Young to expose some of the tactics used by sociopaths.

http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/quill.htm

Robert says he avoids saying Church of Scientology.

"THEY SAY THE first step in any recovery program is the admission, so here it is: I handled public relations (PR) and the media for L. Ron Hubbard and his Scientology empire for 20 years.

It is no accident that I avoid saying "Church of Scientology" -- the trademarked corporate name. The Scientology world is much larger than merely the "Church" of Scientology (see sidebar "Secular,"). It is a labyrinth of corporate shells that, like a hall of mirrors, was designed to baffle all but the initiated. Add to that an arcane language and dedicated "PRs" trained to divert and control inquiries, and it becomes obvious why few outsiders have been able to comprehend the Scientology hydra, let alone write about it. I hope this will make it easier."

 

[Gib]

Does anybody know or remember hubbard said it's a PR world?

Maybe it's a rhetoric world, same thing really.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Does anybody know or remember hubbard said it's a PR world?

HCOB "The World Begins with PR-0"?

But seriously, yes, he did. I can't remember details, though.

Paul

 

[Gib]

HCOB "The World Begins with PR-0"?

But seriously, yes, he did. I can't remember details, though.

Paul

it's in the PR Series of the OEC's

You can read about it here:

http://www.tep-online.info/laku/usa/reli/scien/SECRETDOX/MGMT_SERIES_1970-74.pdf

It's PR Series 1, page 135

 

[Gib]

Lets not forget, Hubbard said anybody who had done OEC/FEBC courses on the ship, could boom any org.

Opps, that doesn't seem to be working out. Anybody know of any OEC/FEBC grads that boomed a org?

Is DM a OEC/FEBC grad that can boom scientology world wide?

 

[Alanzo]

It would be my unconfirmed suspicion that Rhetoric is known to sociopaths, either through their development or through other 'study' as it can be a very useful tool in persuasion. That is not to say anyone who understands and is skilled in rhetoric is a sociopath. Some use it for the benefit of others, but a sociopathic has learned and is using it to the detriment of others and to the perceived or actual benefit of the sociopath, who by definition has destructive motives added to the rhetoric.

Hubbard did so and so does David Miscavige and his OSA staff who are well trained in it. Heber Jentzsch did it, Mike Rinder did it Robert Vaughn Young did it, and definitely the scoundrel lawyers who protect it all.

Thankfully Robert Vaughn Young and, Mike Rinder more recently, had been able to shed that trained in sociopathic mindset and came around to using rhetoric for good.

The following is a good read by Robert Vaughn Young to expose some of the tactics used by sociopaths.

http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/quill.htm

OMG - do you realize that you just used rhetoric to write this post?

You tried to persuade us that what you had to say was true.

That is rhetoric.

Gib uses rhetoric to persuade us that L Ron Hubbard used rhetoric to brainwash us.

A 5 year old uses rhetoric to convince his mom that a cookie is better for him than his dinner is.

What is wrong with you people?

 

[Gib]

OMG - do you realize that you just used rhetoric to write this post?

You tried to persuade us that what you had to say was true.

That is rhetoric.

Gib uses rhetoric to persuade us that L Ron Hubbard used rhetoric to brainwash us.

A 5 year old uses rhetoric to convince his mom that a cookie is better for him than his dinner is.

What is wrong with you people?

and, do you think Hubbard used rhetoric or not?

 

[Alanzo]

and, do you think Hubbard used rhetoric or not?

Absolutely.

We all use rhetoric.

Even - GASP - you, Gib!

Read this man. It's awesome.

http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/rhetoric.html

 

[freethinker]

OMG - do you realize that you just used rhetoric to write this post?

You tried to persuade us that what you had to say was true.

That is rhetoric.

Gib uses rhetoric to persuade us that L Ron Hubbard used rhetoric to brainwash us.

A 5 year old uses rhetoric to convince his mom that a cookie is better for him than his dinner is.

What is wrong with you people?

I don't think you understand the word "rhetoric", but your use of it leaves clues to your thinking

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

OMG - do you realize that you just used rhetoric to write this post?

You tried to persuade us that what you had to say was true.

That is rhetoric.

Gib uses rhetoric to persuade us that L Ron Hubbard used rhetoric to brainwash us.

A 5 year old uses rhetoric to convince his mom that a cookie is better for him than his dinner is.

What is wrong with you people?

Yes, I do realize. Good that you also did.

However:

I dispute your subsequent syllogism . Firstly it does address the malignant motive of Hubbard but that does not mean that Gib's motive is the same...so you have conflated erroneously the motives and go on to imply your Strawman argument that a 5 year old's motive is somehow related to the quality of his rhetoric and therefore equivalent to imply that Gib's and my reasoning is what is 'wrong with you people'

Really Allan, is there something you see as wrong in the world that you would like some help in fixing? Some thing that would not be vindictive?

 

[Gib]

Absolutely.

We all use rhetoric.

Even - GASP - you, Gib!

Read this man. It's awesome.

http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/rhetoric.html

yes, it's an awesome read. Rhetoric is the art of persuasion, or any means available.

Did you read that before your involvement in dianetics/scientology, or during your involvement, or after your involvement?

If you read it before your involvement, would you have have come to realize Hubbard's rhetoric?

 

[Gib]

I conclude, the art of auditing, is the art of persuasion,

for there are no clears or OT's, never have been, never will be.

 

[Alanzo]

yes, it's an awesome read. Rhetoric is the art of persuasion, or any means available.

Did you read that before your involvement in dianetics/scientology, or during your involvement, or after your involvement?

After.

 

[Gib]

After.

me too. That's why this tread, see the beginning. What the hell is actually rhetoric? And did Hubbard use it?

How many people involved in dianetics from 1950 actually knew about rhetoric?

How many people from when scientology started knew about rhetoric?

How many people going up the the time line of the history of dianetics and scientology to present time know about rhetoric and the art of persuasion?

 

[Alanzo]

me too. That's why this tread, see the beginning. What the hell is actually rhetoric? And did Hubbard use it?

How many people involved in dianetics from 1950 actually knew about rhetoric?

How many people from when scientology started knew about rhetoric?

How many people going up the the time line of the history of dianetics and scientology to present time know about rhetoric and the art of persuasion?

The same number who sit in Democratic and Republican conventions and get all excited about candidates who are never going to do what they are telling them they will.

Which is a lot more people than were ever taken in by Hubbard's rhetoric.

Whenever you repeat: There are no Clears and OTs, you are using rhetoric. Right?

I'M NOT SAYING THERE ARE CLEARS AND OTS!!!!

THERE AREN'T AS HUBBARD DEFINED THEM!!!

BUT.

I'm saying YOU - GIB are using rhetoric to convince people of the truth that there are no clear and OTs.

Get it?

 

[Gib]

The same number who sit in Democratic and Republican conventions and get all excited about candidates who are never going to do what they are telling them they will.

Which is a lot more people than were ever taken in by Hubbard's rhetoric.

Whenever you repeat: There are no Clears and OTs, you are using rhetoric. Right?

I'M NOT SAYING THERE ARE CLEARS AND OTS!!!!

THERE AREN'T AS HUBBARD DEFINED THEM!!!

BUT.

I'm saying YOU - GIB are using rhetoric to convince people of the truth that there are no clear and OTs.

Get it?

and what's wrong with that?

What uses of rhetoric am I using?

 

[Alanzo]

and what's wrong with that?

What uses of rhetoric am I using?

Nothing wrong with that.

Humans use rhetoric to try to persuade each other about what they believe is the truth.

You are doing that, just like Hubbard did, and just like I am doing with you right now.

There is nothing inherently wrong with using rhetoric. We all do it as humans.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Some do it better than others. I suppose that might be why they have (or had) classes in the art.

Being aware of the techniques of persuasion can be quite useful in life. Both in being aware of when you are being sold and also to do your own persuading.

Gib likes to keep reminding us that there are no Clears or OTs just like you like to keep reminding us that we are a bunch of Rinder ninnies.

 

[Gib]

Nothing wrong with that.

Humans use rhetoric to try to persuade each other about what they believe is the truth.

You are doing that, just like Hubbard did, and just like I am doing with you right now.

There is nothing inherently wrong with using rhetoric. We all do it as humans.

you never did answer my question:

What uses of rhetoric am I using? Strictly about scientology and hubbard and not off on some tangent.

I guess I'll answer for you, that would be logos. Modern times calls it critical thinking.

The art of persuasion is thru 3 means, namely logos, pathos and ethos.

http://www.european-rhetoric.com/ethos-pathos-logos-modes-persuasion-aristotle/

I have mentioned on other treads that ones resume is actually rhetoric. Look at your own resume on your blog for your involvement in scientology. Here you use the 3 means of persuasion. I don't doubt it.

Lets look at Hubbard's resume about the lies he told about his resume. The latest video that I mentioned above actually exposes Hubbard's false rhetoric resume. Don't you think?

https://radio.abc.net.au/programitem/pgaG51rqzG

But let's not give credit to Steve only, for Jerry Armstrong and many others have exposed Hubbard's false rhetoric resume that he told in words, books, lectures, video's, you name it.

I am only talking about hubbard, dianetics and scientology. So don't answer or reply with something else.

 

[Gib]

getting back to Dean Wilbur,

and it's a rhetoric world or PR world:

From Hubbard's letter to Dean Wilbur:

"But I doubt in the extreme that I ever would have carried on had it not been for your very sane treatise on the world at large which you labeled “rhetoric” and which was nothing at all but culture, as alone and isolated upon a regimented horizon as a steamer’s plume of smoke against the horizon."

https://backincomm.wordpress.com/2014/04/01/dear-dean-wilbur/

Dianetics and Scientology are rhetoric to create a culture, a cult, thru the words, spoken or written, by L R Hubbard.

I give him credit for achieving such a thing, but I see his rhetoric, and the final logos
(proof) for me was there is no bridge to total freedom, there are no clears or ot's.