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Small Steps, if you're not sure about posting questions for general display and you're worried about trolls, you can always send a PM to an individual on the board you feel comfortable with. Take your time with that and when you've read enough posts you'll figure out who is safe to PM.
 
ok. the jive aces and stcc...

well during that tour i was also sold science of survival. now there is a book that goes a long way to making you feel stupid! nice gradient! argh! that was around about the summer of '92 and i carried on playing with them after the tour. to be honest there wasn't much time to do anything else in scientology until just before the christmas of that year, as many of you probably know they are a very busy act! so mid december of that years i bought the purif and tr's and objectives. i started the purif straight away. as it happens i did it at the same time as bilky (the drummer with the jives) although he wasn't my twin. that was my scientologist friend. me coming in had rehabilitated his scientology purpose to some degree. it was fun i guess. hated running. was suspicious of the huge doses of vits. and i detested eating salad at the best of times! lol. but again there is always "proof" of something working. i had once been badly sun burned whilst playing my guitar outside and during the purif this burn "turned on". I could actually see the strap mark on my shoulder, the bit that hadn't burned! so even though i wasn't sure that it could be so simplistic to rid myself of radiation there was the "proof"!. whist doing the purif i had a HUGE realisation about my second dynamic and made the decision that i wanted to marry a girl i had known from college. this was big big big for me! def hadn't of myself as the marrying kind! i wasn't particularly known for being "ethical" in the old 2d department! When attested at the end that was when my first staff reg cycle arrived!!! lol. oh what fun they are! well i caved. and agreed to join the ttc (technical traning corps) for ldn org. so did my twin! training to be a class five. go clear. yadayada. that cycle took two people to close me (yes two! sure that was off policy! lol). so then begins the next chapter. the ttc at saint hill. full time training. well nearly full time. still had to gig to pay my bills and stuff. i was still playing with the jives and still doing my own act aswell. i couldn't afford digs in EG so we had to travel from south east ldn to saint hill every day! crappola that was. but it was better than the converted garden shed that we were offered to stay in! that was what the org was prepared to pay for, only we were'nt prepared to sleep in it! lol. nasty nasty!

Anyway, we had to do the tr's and objective that we had already paid for before we could start our program so we started! saint hill was a wild time! because it was my best friend that i was twinning with we had a blast doing tr's!!! although i will admit to taking a real dislike to that bloody ashtray!!! it did things to me it did! lol. so during this time i convinced the girl from my college days to come to ldn to visit me. she came, i made her welcome, as did my family, and after going home she wrote and asked if she could come to ldn to live. it was all going to plan!!! well, my plan anyway. so in the april of '93 she came to live at my family home. i worked hard at arc and dissemination. eventually i wone her over.

at some point during all this i routted off the ttc and quite the staff contract. as i'm writing this i cant remember why or how i managed to do it without to much hassle!

i'm gonna have a break now. it starts to get ugly soon, you know, scientology type ugly!, and i need to rest before i attempt to confront it. bell well all.
 
Welcome to ESMB Small Steps! :yes:

So, since you're worried about trolls, I'll chance a guess about what you might be interested in. And that's largely based on what I was interested in when I started to realized I'd been conned and defrauded.. Amazingly, that happened 10 years after I quit..

I then wanted to find out why and how. I got intensely curious about Hubbard and the history of Scientology.

I found some books here:
Operation Clambake / Scientology Booklist

From this extensive collection I recommend these:

A Piece Of Blue Sky by Jon Atack

Messiah of Madman? by Bent Corydon

Bare Faced Messia by Russel Miller. This one is a very accurate account as far as I can tell.. And all these books are online for the reading.

Just ask about some subject you want to know about. There'll be someone who can answer.

:yes:
 
Welcome to the board!

Your story is similar to mine. I was either too busy working on staff, volunteering or working two jobs to make money for my next action, to get very far up the bridge.

I should have been in college but instead picked scientology to get me further in life.:duh:

I spent 10 years or so in the cult too. I don't regret a lot of it, especially the time spent at my org in the beginning. I met some wonderful people and learned a lot about life...even when scientology would frown on that as other fish to fry. I fried, baby, boy did I fry! And I was never remorseful for that.

It takes a long time to peel off the layers of the cult programming. I've been out 20 plus years and still run into some cult think I didn't know I used! But the worst of it went pretty quickly for me. Most of the rest followed slowly but surely. You may always have some but I doubt it would be harmful or destructive.

We were the lucky ones. We got off pretty easy compared to some who've had to do the Introspection Rundown and all that crap.

Paul would be a good guy to pm. He will help you with your questions.:yes:

Can't wait to hear more of your story!
 
sp

thank you for the advice there! i read piece of blue sky a week or so ago. BLOODY HELL! when i first came in mr atac was the devil!!! lol. i came in in 92 and it was all kicking off about him at the time. of course i believed everything i was told about him! (if you look on here john, i'm SO SORRY!!!). i'll check out the other books asap! thank you for the pointer!
 
thanks byte!

I do feel that i've been very lucky in a lot of ways, not so much in others i gues but i'll get to that eventually! lol. thanks for the advice. have done that now and await a reply. cheers!
 
Welcome

:welcome2: Small Steps :welcome2:

Glad you started posting here. I look forward to hearing more about your experiences. :drama:
 
:welcome: small steps! Catching up on your posts, but wow sounds like you had some interesting experiences (travelling around with a band, doing stcc in switzerland, etc..).

Glad you are OUT tho, and you are right in that it don't take much for scn to seep deeply into one's life and soul, huh? :melodramatic:

Michelle
 
Hi Small steps ...

You are with friends ... I think we know how you feel ... (kind of excited and yet churning inside?) ...

:omg:

Its all good though ... you are now truly 'On the road to FREEDOM" ....

:dancer:

:party:

Oh ... and welcome!

:heartflower:
 
Excited yet churning inside!!! :happydance: spot on!!!

anyhow time for the next bit.

so girl comes to live with myself and family in april 93. we got married in the aug (made that go right :eyeroll: ). in between those times i got out of the staff thing and took her to ccldn. she was pretty arty and of course me being a muso it seemed the place to go. to be honest she was reluctant to start with (clever girl!) but eventually came round, quite spectacularly as it happens! lol! at this time she was 18 and i was nearly 21 (week or so after the wedding actually). no sooner had she come in than she got to be someones pc in the courseroom, objectives i think, and as i remember it she didn't do great on that to start with. there had been a fair amount of drug use and she hadn't yet done the purif. another thing i always thought was not right! that was one of the BIG reasons i wanted her to come in - wanted her to get the purif! (i'm just remembering as i write this that that was my primary intention with her! to help her! omg!). so anyway she started to do better on the auditing and must have had some sort of win because the next thing i know she joined staff!!! that most definately hadn't figured in my plans but hey ho! it was all good! or so i thought. you see she had agreed to train to be the sup there and a couple of months after we were married she was whisked off to ccint to train! we had only just got married ffs! also, she fell pregnant less than two months after we married so there was all sorts of rush on getting her out to LA so she could get through her whole program and be able to fly back before being seven months gone. Guess who had to send her money so she could live? the org? a fairy? no you guessed it, MUG HEAD HERE!!! great, so pay for our flat, and live, and bills, AND send money so she could do something that wasn't even my idea! missing my new wife was i!!! at that time i'm finding it hard to remember exactly what was happening with me. i was in and out of the org doing bits and bobs, doing drills with people in the course room. i think i did another course during that time but i really cant be sure. when she came back it was kind of all systems go from then on! she was supping on a day schedule and i was going in with her so as to complete my tr's and obj's. i have to point out here that she was already NOT the person i had married! loss right there! all was ticking along then for a while, getting ready for new baby arrival etc. i recieved my objective auditing around about that time i believe. i did well on that. i felt that i really understood it and was able to "have" any auditor flunks because i felt kind of in control, no, thats wrong. this is hard to explain at this point. i think it will become more clear later on. for me and for you story hounds! lol. ok, so i'm stopping for a bit to think things over. that was my first auditing action and i'm just swimming in it at the mo. sorry to cut it short and leave in the middle of a bit! :banghead:
 
Thanks

Thanks for more of your story. You don't have to tell it all at once. Just tell what you can remember. More will surface and sort out later.

I find my memory kind of sorts out a bit after I post some and continues to do so for days afterward.

There's no rush for stats here.

Looking forward to more when you're ready. :drama:
 
Welcome to ESMB Small Steps! :yes:

So, since you're worried about trolls, I'll chance a guess about what you might be interested in. And that's largely based on what I was interested in when I started to realized I'd been conned and defrauded.. Amazingly, that happened 10 years after I quit..

I then wanted to find out why and how. I got intensely curious about Hubbard and the history of Scientology.

I found some books here:
Operation Clambake / Scientology Booklist

From this extensive collection I recommend these:

A Piece Of Blue Sky by Jon Atack

Messiah of Madman? by Bent Corydon

Bare Faced Messia by Russel Miller. This one is a very accurate account as far as I can tell.. And all these books are online for the reading.

Just ask about some subject you want to know about. There'll be someone who can answer.

:yes:

SP's got some great recommendations for you. I have 2 more to add that were helpful to me.

The Scientological Onion http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=19183&postcount=1

Scientology Technology Evaluated http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1629

I like your story. I was in for 17 years (never made it to Clear), but got out with the Anon protests early 2008. It caused me to go online and discover the terrible truth about Scientology. I found it helps to make sense of it all by posting on this board. We can all read and understand and relate to the experiences that we read. It gets it out of your head and onto the ESMB. I found it therapeutic to do so.

I also got out before the really bad stuff happened to me. The FUN and excitement is at the beginning. It goes downhill from there, but you stay in because of the brainwashing/training/indoctrination/hypnotism/manipulation (pick your favorite word).

FFL
 
thanks ffl. i'll certainly check out your links there. this all started for me when i found ocmb and i was so absorbed in andreas's site that i didn't really get to look much elsewhere.

FoTi .... i can see exactly what you mean there. after my last post i had immense trouble sleeping properly as i was sorting things out in my head! i'm trying to recall what i was like BEFORE objective auditing and compare it to how i am now! this is the sort of thing i've just NOT done since i left. wild time's indeed! question to self has been: did i ACTUALLY gain anything from it? now i dont have the pressure of expectations of others i can actually LOOK at it! at the moment i'm leaning towards did! i enjoyed obj's and am still aware of the feeling i had when i ep'd. i just cant quite recall BEFORE. that concerns/confuses me. is it proof that i've been brainwashed or proof that i gained something never to be lost. wow, just writting this reply has helped me to clarify whats been bothering me all night! :) mmmmm........more looking needed.
 
hi small steps

Im glad you are here and getting clear on some curious past experiences.

There are many elements of Scientology that are fantastic and you don't have to feel wrong about incorporating these ideas into your life because you can be certain that most of the ideas already existed before L Ron ever began to dictate! QUOTE]

i just want to make a mention of this. your words have given me much to think about and i wanted to say thanks. i think for me this is the point that is going to cause me the most trouble and what you say here goes a long way to helping me release from that. thank you.
 
Hey Small Steps,
Thanks and you are most welcome. I know how difficult it can be to disentangle one's self from the cultishness of Scientology since I was born into a Scientology family. Talk about culture bound!


Best,
WPRT
 
thanks ffl. i'll certainly check out your links there. this all started for me when i found ocmb and i was so absorbed in andreas's site that i didn't really get to look much elsewhere.

FoTi .... i can see exactly what you mean there. after my last post i had immense trouble sleeping properly as i was sorting things out in my head! i'm trying to recall what i was like BEFORE objective auditing and compare it to how i am now! this is the sort of thing i've just NOT done since i left. wild time's indeed! question to self has been: did i ACTUALLY gain anything from it? now i dont have the pressure of expectations of others i can actually LOOK at it! at the moment i'm leaning towards did! i enjoyed obj's and am still aware of the feeling i had when i ep'd. i just cant quite recall BEFORE. that concerns/confuses me. is it proof that i've been brainwashed or proof that i gained something never to be lost. wow, just writting this reply has helped me to clarify whats been bothering me all night! :) mmmmm........more looking needed.

I have found that I often have trouble sleeping after I've posted part of my story also. My mind just keeps sorting out for days. When it's done settling out, I post some more of my story. I make sure I get plenty of sleep inbetween postings of my story....that helps to sort things out too. It's taking me a long time, but it's helping me, so I just keep going with it. It also helps me a lot inbetween to read other people's stories and discussion posts. The more I do this, the more my memory is coming back to me. It's kind of fun.
 
thanks ffl. i'll certainly check out your links there. this all started for me when i found ocmb and i was so absorbed in andreas's site that i didn't really get to look much elsewhere.

FoTi .... i can see exactly what you mean there. after my last post i had immense trouble sleeping properly as i was sorting things out in my head! i'm trying to recall what i was like BEFORE objective auditing and compare it to how i am now! this is the sort of thing i've just NOT done since i left. wild time's indeed! question to self has been: did i ACTUALLY gain anything from it? now i dont have the pressure of expectations of others i can actually LOOK at it! at the moment i'm leaning towards did! i enjoyed obj's and am still aware of the feeling i had when i ep'd. i just cant quite recall BEFORE. that concerns/confuses me. is it proof that i've been brainwashed or proof that i gained something never to be lost. wow, just writting this reply has helped me to clarify whats been bothering me all night! :) mmmmm........more looking needed.

I would consider objectives one of the most valuable processes - on a par with the OT levels. I wouldn't worry about them as brainwashing or hypnotic - take a look at any experience, say the joy of looking at a sunset - from the revelation that scene made, can you remember what you were like before you saw it? The trap is more subtle - its that that piece of it worked and is then used to bring you along to assume that all of it (the whole Church thing) is from a better knowledge of you than you have yourself.

Give yourself time to separate from the culture itself.
 
Well I think I'm ready for some more! I seem to have stopped wobbling around for the moment! :happydance: couple of things first:

interested to know if there are any ldn bods on here? (cc or ldn org) I'm not looking to pry into anyone's life or anything, just that there are people i liked and would love to catch up if they are around! (and even if its someone i didn't like or who didn't like me there's always the chance of working things out here on the outside! lol)

the other thing is this. whatever i say in my story, there some people that i REALLY liked when i was in and not everybody involved in my situations were mindless plonkers! lol.

also, my recolections and the time line might be pretty dodgy at times! sorry in advance!

so, i finished obj's and like i say i got a lot from it. this was 94/95, cant be 100% sure. it all seemed to be going along ok i guess. the next thing i had to do was deliver obj's as part of my course so i asked the guy i worked with if he wanted some free auditing. at the time i was working in a "duo", gigging in pubs and clubs, with a guy i had gone to school with. Ian is his name. i had already taken him into ldn org to do stcc (cant remember exactly when i did that but it was def before i got married). so he comes in to receive obj's from me and i have to say i loved doing this! every time he had a win i felt great! half the wins indeed! by now things were already getting difficult at home. so i guess this is where the conflicts really started to kick in! i had already stopped playing so much with the jives by this point. they were fully arrived as SO and because i wasn't qual'd ( :happydance: ) it was provint to be more and more difficult to make it work with them. also, i gotta tell you, the pay per gig with them was not great at all and even though i enjoyed it immensly i couldn't run a family on it! so it seemed to be going ok in the org but home not so good. money was tight. and my lovely, fresh faced, artistic wife had become not so lovely, fresh faced and artistic! i was definately being made to feel inferior to her by this time and GOD BLESS PAIN AND SEX! lol. i wasn't even allowed to THINK about being close to her! I was 21! of course its really easy to turn off any sort of urge at 21! :duh: so things were starting to get tense. with hindsight she was, i think, being being fed this sort of crap. after all I wasn't on staff right! scum bag. doesn't matter that SOMEONE had to pay the bills! she had always been a "friendly" girl so this was all coming as a bit of a shock. cant say as i liked it much and to be fair i've never pretended to have been the perfect husband. but i felt i had already lost the person i had married. nothing i did seemed to be right. make more money, but study more! do my share at home, as long as it included her share aswell! after all, she was saving the planet! :p

Not entirely sure how we managed it but she was by then pregnant again and the i think about all this the more i realise things. she was 19 by then, hormones going nuts, and getting all the pressure that goes along with being on staff. no wonder she seemed to be taking it out on me! not something that would have been up for discussion though! I wonder how many others lost thier spouse simply because they felt that they couldn't really discuss everything!

by then i had resorted to what most normal 21/22 year old blokes would have done! but that was REALLY REALLY wrong! so no sex and no relief either. again, pain and sex anyone! lol. dont misunderstand, this isn't all about the fact that i wasn't "getting any" lol. i felt rejected. refused affinity? lol. I always saw it as being her fault. she was the one taking the tech too far on this subject! but never ever thought that it was BECAUSE she was on staff and probably having to deal with her own doubts (i'm pretty sure that most people had them).

things went along like this for a while. me doing gigs to make money and doing what i could in the org. important thing was always to make sure that she was able to do her job as sup. it was NEVER about me or my case or how i was doing. as long as she arrived every day for post no body seemed to care about anything much else. about sept ish of 95 i was asked to go to japan with a band to do a couple of gigs. lou was heavily pregnant and it was a bit of a bone of contention to say the least but eventually i was able to make it happen. while i was away i was treated like a celebrity and looked after by the record company and loved it! i was having fun and actually (god forbid) enjoyed myself. it made the situation at home all the more obviously crap. and when one night i was shown affection by another woman.... well. i felt shit about it. not proud. and wished with all my heart that it hadn't happened. but there you go. what was done was done. when i came back things went from bad to worse and when our second child was born things were very miserable for both of us! then comes the big push at the org! the push was to make ccldn class five org and we all had to get on board!

a mission was sent from cc int. this consisted of a man and wife team coming in and replacing the ED and the president. Duncan and Jenai(?) Pringle. anyone know them? anyway they were spearheading the push and part of the prerequisite for class five is to have a pro sup! so obviously that meant Lou had to train like mad! full time! we were living a bit of a distance from the org at the time so it was arranged for us to move into a house with some other guys nearer to the org so that we could be more on board, and obviously more availiable. so the full time training starts. i caved :duh: and signed staff. and thats where i started to really see some insanity in action! i went from public to PES in one easy movement. no hatting! just there on post. nuts! and louise (who was doing her training at ldn org) starts to behave really wierd. nothing i did was right. she was under all this pressure to complete asap if idared to complain about myself or my kids not seeing her i was jumped on straight away by her and the org. i was really starting to feel the strain and no body seemed to be listening. then came the start of the nights where she didn't come home. the story i would get was that she had studied late and slept in one of the auditing rooms. you know, i even believed it! i'm gonna cut the story down a bit and just say what it was. she was having an affair with the sup at ldn org. wtf! w:angry: when i tried to deal with it in the org along the right lines i was taken to the president's ofice and told to knock it off!!! knock it off!! bloody hell! i was told that if i didn't i would be declared!!! so here was the delivery of the tech for the whole of ldn being jeopardised and I was the one in the wrong!!! NOTHING was allowed to get in the way of cc going class five! at all! so what if thats what was happening (and you need to understand, i never was able to prove it totally!), it didn't matter. in other words i didn't matter. my kids didn't matter. i cant even begin to tell you how angry i was. and confused. i mean how could this be? this was just not sane. here is an organisation, A "church", that was just simply turning a blind eye to what someone was doing that was wrong all because they couldn't progress without her being trained and on post. i was not feeling good at all. in fact i was losing the plot so to speak. scientology wasn't supposed to be like that!

anyway, break for a bit. i feel like i'm spending to much time on this when there is more to get through! it gets worse.
 
more.

that whole time is a little vague. I lost the plot in a big way. so here is one thing that happened:

when at one point i felt i couldn't take any more i decided to leave her and take the kids with me. i put them in the car with some stuffand headed for my parents house. while doing this journey something happened that caused me to really flip. as i was driving through london three youths walked in front of my car in a slow and somewhat cocky manner. they were pretty much daring me to say or do anything about it. given that i was pretty distraught at the time and struggling to stay in control my response wasn't that unexpected i suppose. i stopped the car in the middle of the road (major road out of london) and got out screaming. i walked over to the three boys (maybe 15 yrs old or so) and just yelled at them and threatened this that and the other. they didn't cave and run away scared which made me even more angry!!! i mean, here was i a grown man and these boys didn't seem to care! then i suddenly realised what i was doing! i had two young children in my car and i was standing toe to toe with three yobbish lads about to probably get my arse kicked! :duh: . ok, so this was not smart and i realised i had to back off before it went completely out of hand. so i said a few more "grown up" tough guy things about behaving responsily while crossing the road and then started to walk back to my car. just as i climbed back into my seat one of them yelled out "coward! yellow bastard!". well i flipped. and i mean flipped! red mist the lot! i threw the car into reverse and tried to run them over! they ran then! i chased them in my car down a side road and drove straight at one of them! luckily before i could one of them against the wall i hit the curb and my tyre exploded and the wheel buckled. tat didn't stop me. all of my frustrations and anger and feelings of impotance had been let go and i just frankliy didn't care! i carried on chasing them in the car and followed them into a petrol garage! sparks flying from the damaged wheel in a petrol garage!!! now this was totally not bright! the kids were screaming and somehow this finally got through to me and i stopped the car and broke down. totally. i just sat there shaking and crying and talking incoherantly. gradually somebody from the crowd that had obviously gathered came over to the car and asked if i was ok, looking worriedly at the kids and obviously wondering if i was going to get out an automatic rifle and start shooting randompeople! it was quite obviouse i was nuts. the police were called and then an ambulance to make sure the kids were ok. the police, the kids and i all eneded up at the hospital to be checked out. them by a doctor and me by the police psych. doh! i knew i had behaved appalingly and endangered my kids and i knew that i had to get it together infront of this psych! now if all you ex staff and SO think about all this and put yourselves back on post for a second can you imagine the flap? here i am being held in the hospital while the police try to decide what to do with me and trying to decide if my children had been abused in any way! i was asked to give a number to contact my wife and so gave the number for ldn org. she was of course in the courseroom training at the time and so when the police called the org to speak to her (and this bit is just unbelievable) they were told by whichever newbie was on reception that they would have to WAIT until lunch time to speak with her!!! told to wait! the police! jesus! anyway, they insisted and lou was brought to the phone and informed of what had happened and told that she had to come to the hospital to get the kids. so her, her senior from cc, and someone else (i dont remember who) arrived at the hospital. by that point i had managed to convince the police that i wasn't a complete loon and that i was having marriage problems and was under some considerable strain. we were allowed to go once lou had arrived. what happened next is beyond comprehension. lou came, checked the kids over, and then promptly left again to go back on study, informing me that i had to make my own way home with the kids and that i had caused a huge flap and out pr situation and that i had dragged her off of course and disrupted the most important thing which was of course cc going class five! didn't seem to matter that i had obviously had some sort of break down, tried to kill someone, and endangered the kids! the car was obviously unusable so i had to negotiate the tube and make my way home. to this day i'm not really sure how i did this. when i got home one of the people we lived had obviously been told to watch me and report on what i did from there on. i know that he did do this because of things that were told to me at later dates. somebody agreed to watch the kids and i went for a walk to "look at things" and try to get my attention out. lol. fucking idiots all of us. needless to say kr's and ethics followed. the crazy thing is that after having made the decision to leave i found myself straight back there and feeling worse than ever.

if anyone is reading this or not it actually doesn't matter much. i'm finding it very usefull to go through this and try to make some sense of it. i realise i come accross as having been totally nuts. the point is i probably was. i have obviously not given every last minute detail of what led up to that incident and i'm thinking most of you can add for yourselves various types of org pressure, wrong labelling, ethics injustice and besides from anything scientology just the fact of realising that a marriage has gone for shit. i'm gonna leave it there. i'm not sure exactly how things went after that. like i say its all abit vague. i had probably a 2/3 year period where i was in all this mess and quite frankly i spent most of that time in a fog. more later.
 
What? No Introspection Rundown? Obviously you had a "psychotic break". The "in tech" thing to do would be rest, isolation, and cleaning up the out-lists, wrong indications, ARC Breaks and other "BPC" that led up to this incident.


But then, they stopped delivering a loooong time ago..

Thank god no one was hurt!
 
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