The Major Flaw in Knowledgism

[uniquemand]

It'd be cool if Alan's book was an ebook, like the Pilot's Self-Clearing. Then you could check it out without an investment (low or high).

As to taking courses: that's very helpful if you want to APPLY the things you are learning. Usually, before people make that sort of decision, they'd like to KNOW what they will be learning to apply.

It's not unethical to discuss things without taking a course on them. It would be unethical to represent something as other than what it is. However, if what it is can only be discovered by purchasing a book or a course, that's a bit iffy.

The tech is free. Keep it so.

 

[alex]

It seems from what I'm reading of your posts, Alex, you've not done any courses of Knowledgism, not done or had any Knowledgism processes. And not read Alan's book: "Who or What is Man? Who or What are You?"

ANd what I am seeing written by you is a blatant misrepresentation of the subject, what it is and what it does.

If you read the referenced book, and do, actually do, the spiritual teammate handling procedures, you'll see they in fact restore personal, individual sovereignty and freedom of choice back to the otherwise, currently unwittingly stuck and "aberrated" spiritual Beings . . . . as Alan states in that R/D: "some choose to 'leave' and some choose to 'stay with you.'"

Compare that to Hubbard's handling of spiritual connections wherein his R/D is akin to his abusive trick of "disconnection."

My spiritual teammates that have been given the benefit of the R/D are a bunch of happy campers, rather like a winning rugby team, all supporting each other in a common, understood cause, and enjoying the hell out of life.

So, before you show how either destructively prejudiced, or unethical you are, go do some courses and study the materials you are criticizing. That's the ethical and honest thing to do.

RogerB

"destructively prejudiced" "unethical"

ad ho·mi·nem
Pronunciation:
\(ˈ)ad-ˈhä-mə-ˌnem, -nəm\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
New Latin, literally, to the person
Date:
1598
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made


But still avoiding the issues I believe to be the "major flaw in Knowledgism"

I always know I have touched a nerve and found some truth when people wont talk about what I say but rather about me.

 

[DartSmohen]

It'd be cool if Alan's book was an ebook, like the Pilot's Self-Clearing. Then you could check it out without an investment (low or high).

As to taking courses: that's very helpful if you want to APPLY the things you are learning. Usually, before people make that sort of decision, they'd like to KNOW what they will be learning to apply.

It's not unethical to discuss things without taking a course on them. It would be unethical to represent something as other than what it is. However, if what it is can only be discovered by purchasing a book or a course, that's a bit iffy.

The tech is free. Keep it so.

I hear what you say, however, Alan has invested 40 years of work and a LOT of his own resources in developing this material, so it would only be correct if there was some sort of exchange.

There are plenty of materials available on the KN site that can be accessed for free. In fact we get hundreds of "hits" per month where people all over the world are logging on, getting some data and seeing for themselves if it is for them or not.

There are books, tapes and DVDs available for sale to those who choose to purchase.

It is all down to the individual's choice.

This is also your choice as well.

Dart

 

[alex]

snip
So, before you show how either destructively prejudiced, or unethical you are, go do some courses and study the materials you are criticizing. That's the ethical and honest thing to do.

RogerB

Perhaps we should demand that of the anons too?

 

[uniquemand]

Don't bypass the answers he did give, Alex. Was there a question you were asking that he didn't answer? The ad hom, from any party, at any time, is noted by others watching the thread. It is surprising, it is unnecessary, and it is transparent. I wouldn't even bother engaging it. Keep going after your answers, and the other things will drop away. TR3

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

However, if what it is can only be discovered by purchasing a book or a course, that's a bit iffy.

Good point. I bought the Idenics book and that really didn't say much at all and was primarily a prereq to doing a course

Buying A book is not necssarily such a big deal, but having to buy several expensive books to see if there is anything of interest is something else again.

I guess we are just not in the same league, since they are making all these 6 figure salaries and not working hard for it all.

 

[alex]

I hear what you say, however, Alan has invested 40 years of work and a LOT of his own resources in developing this material, so it would only be correct if there was some sort of exchange.

There are plenty of materials available on the KN site that can be accessed for free. In fact we get hundreds of "hits" per month where people all over the world are logging on, getting some data and seeing for themselves if it is for them or not.

There are books, tapes and DVDs available for sale to those who choose to purchase.

It is all down to the individual's choice.

This is also your choice as well.

Dart

Alan by his own assertion is a billionaire. The exchange for spiritual knowledge could well be the improvement in the world around him for him to live in. In fact HOW COULD money be adequate exchange?

Yes exchange is important. Money is a symbol. There are other ways to exchange. Keeping information supposedly so important, secret, for the want of money seems counter to the notion of spiritual exchange.

 

[DartSmohen]

Good point. I bought the Idenics book and that really didn't say much at all and was primarily a prereq to doing a course

Buying A book is not necssarily such a big deal, but having to buy several expensive books to see if there is anything of interest is something else again.

I guess we are just not in the same league, since they are making all these 6 figure salaries and not working hard for it all.

Lesolee,

How is life down there is sunny Oxfordshire?

You are using the generality "they". Do I detect some rancour in your final remark?

Dart

 

[alex]

I hear what you say, however, Alan has invested 40 years of work and a LOT of his own resources in developing this material, so it would only be correct if there was some sort of exchange.

There are plenty of materials available on the KN site that can be accessed for free. In fact we get hundreds of "hits" per month where people all over the world are logging on, getting some data and seeing for themselves if it is for them or not.

There are books, tapes and DVDs available for sale to those who choose to purchase.

It is all down to the individual's choice.

This is also your choice as well.

Dart

So, hypothetically, you wake up from a billion years of unconscious fixation, and their is some big successful being beaming beingness at you?

Are you going to then run off and discover what life can be?

Or cling tight to the saviour?

And when you find that that savior is very concerned with human life success and not with that of pure spirit?

Knowledgism seems to me to be flawed in that way. That is the topic of this tread you so adroitly avoid.

Think about it for a few days......dont just blindly defend knowledgism or attack its "attacker".

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

Lesolee,

How is life down there is sunny Oxfordshire?

You are using the generality "they". Do I detect some rancour in your final remark?

Life's fine, thank you.

The "generality" they was supposed to be a plural for you and Alan. No rancour. I don't really have any great desire to be "rich", but if that's what somebody else wants then I don't object to that either.

 

[uniquemand]

Well, I would (of course) disagree that the Idenics book doesn't say much at all. It says, I think, quite a bit of valuable information, to give an understanding of the viewpoint of Idenics practice, and how they view what is to be addressed. It *IS*, however, highly short on any kind of METHOD. He does say that the basic function is to have the person look, and keep on looking, until a shift occurs.

I probably will be taking an Idenics course, when I get the cash together, and if Mike will still have me after some of our spats. The only "free tech" I've ever seen out there was Ken Ogger's work and ClearBird (which shares a lot of his grammatical errors and viewpoints ).

There was a time when Clean Slate was available for free through the KN site, I think, or I had pirated some of it from somewhere, I'm not sure. Clearing practitioners beware: I don't respect your copyrights and trademarks. When I'm curious, if I can find out for free, I will. If I want to train with you, and you will have me, then I can see paying.

 

[DartSmohen]

So, hypothetically, you wake up from a billion years of unconscious fixation, and their is some big successful being beaming beingness at you?

Are you going to then run off and discover what life can be?

Or cling tight to the saviour?

And when you find that that savior is very concerned with human life success and not with that of pure spirit?

Knowledgism seems to me to be flawed in that way. That is the topic of this tread you so adroitly avoid.

Think about it for a few days......dont just blindly defend knowledgism or attack its "attacker".

Alex,

You are putting a bit of "spin" on this.

It is all about choice. Human life success and spiritual awareness and enhancement are intertwined.

If you try and keep them separate you don't really succeed in reaching toward your dreams, goals and asperations.

You can take yourself away and shut out the world around you, as do men and women when they retreat into a closed group like a monestary, or you can completely negate any spiritual considerations and become immersed in the material world.

It is entirely up to you how you approach life.

Again, it is choice.

 

[alex]

Alex,

You are putting a bit of "spin" on this.

It is all about choice. Human life success and spiritual awareness and enhancement are intertwined.

If you try and keep them separate you don't really succeed in reaching toward your dreams, goals and asperations.

You can take yourself away and shut out the world around you, as do men and women when they retreat into a closed group like a monestary, or you can completely negate any spiritual considerations and become immersed in the material world.

It is entirely up to you how you approach life.

Again, it is choice.

Just as you put a spin on Hubbards tech towards entities, characterizing it as disconnection.

I personally believe one needs a clean personal universe. Maybe an occasional guest, and certainly a "third dynamic" personal universe too. But at the core there must be that space of complete self determinism or freedom from influence.

Of course that it not the end all of goals, but a necessary component in functioning fully as self. Some bit of consciousness that is truely and solely ones own.

I believe the third dynamic would better be formed from entities that dont have the history and possible ill effects of previous fixation and possible feelings of personal debt towards their liberator.

The spiritul teammates thing has a ring of spiritual multilevel marketing to it. Amway of souls.

imo

 

[Alanzo]

I hear what you say, however, Alan has invested 40 years of work and a LOT of his own resources in developing this material, so it would only be correct if there was some sort of exchange.

There are plenty of materials available on the KN site that can be accessed for free. In fact we get hundreds of "hits" per month where people all over the world are logging on, getting some data and seeing for themselves if it is for them or not.

There are books, tapes and DVDs available for sale to those who choose to purchase.

It is all down to the individual's choice.

This is also your choice as well.

Dart

Yay! Actual communication!!!

All right!!

 

[uniquemand]

Just as you put a spin on Hubbards tech towards entities, characterizing it as disconnection.

I personally believe one needs a clean personal universe. Maybe an occasional guest, and certainly a "third dynamic" personal universe too. But at the core there must be that space of complete self determinism or freedom from influence.

Of course that it not the end all of goals, but a necessary component in functioning fully as self. Some bit of consciousness that is truely and solely ones own.

I believe the third dynamic would better be formed from entities that dont have the history and possible ill effects of previous fixation and possible feelings of personal debt towards their liberator.

imo

Do you feel that you are fixated and have a personal debt to LRH?

 

[alex]

Do you feel that you are fixated and have a personal debt to LRH?

Fixated? No.

Personal debt? Yes.

(I become fixated easily, but no, not to lrh.....)

 

[alex]

snip

There are plenty of materials available on the KN site that can be accessed for free. In fact we get hundreds of "hits" per month where people all over the world are logging on, getting some data and seeing for themselves if it is for them or not.

There are books, tapes and DVDs available for sale to those who choose to purchase.

It is all down to the individual's choice.

This is also your choice as well.

Dart

It is true that there is a lot of material available on the knowledgism web site. None of it seems to be the course materials or the advanced stuff.

But valuable information none the less.

Knowledgism hasnt had a leak of its advanced materials that I know of.

 

[uniquemand]

Fixated? No.

Personal debt? Yes.

(I become fixated easily, but no, not to lrh.....)

Why do you feel that you are free to make your own choices, if you don't feel that a "bt" or "teammate" is?

 

[alex]

Why do you feel that you are free to make your own choices, if you don't feel that a "bt" or "teammate" is?

THATS MY WHOLE F'ING POINT!

How is an entity supposed to make a "free will choice" when in the influence of ITS PROCESSOR!?

Would you ask one of your processees to go into business with you or become personal friends in the glow of their awakening awareness? It seems a situation that needs a bit of distance to mitigate the obvious chance of influence. The influence you could be capable of as a processor is a thing to be cognizant of.

 

[Zinjifar]

THATS MY WHOLE F'ING POINT!

How is an entity supposed to make a "free will choice" when in the influence of ITS PROCESSOR!?

Would you ask one of your processees to go into business with you or become personal friends in the glow of their awakening awareness? It seems a situation that needs a bit of distance to mitigate the obvious chance of influence. The influence you could be capable of as a processor is a thing to be cognizant of.

Ask yourself; 'What Would (did) Ron Do?'

Zinj