"The Mind's Protection"

[uniquemand]

Agreed. That's what they say. "deadly" is perhaps overstating it though.

Sorry, I missed the point you were trying to make.

When an item doesn't read you backtrack and then miraculously it does read next time you get to it. I know some people think that because it is plotted out it is evaluative and implanting.

Well, I don't feel implanted when following a sat nav or a map.

When following a sat nav or a map, aren't you trying to go somewhere that YOU determined, and then looking for a route? That's a bit different than having someone else tell you what is there, and then tell you how to look at it.

 

[Zinjifar]

Well, I don't feel implanted when following a sat nav or a map.

How bout if your map/GPS says you're in Never-never Land and that there's a pot of gold just around the corner?

Zinj

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

How bout if your map/GPS says you're in Never-never Land and that there's a pot of gold just around the corner?

Well if the sat nav says turn left and there is no left, you know it's full of shit and discard it.

If it says "pot of gold here" and you find it, then you might be pleased!

It's a map. If it doesn't work then throw it away and try a map from somebody else or make your own.

 

[Zinjifar]

Well if the sat nav says turn left and there is no left, you know it's full of shit and discard it.

If it says "pot of gold here" and you find it, then you might be pleased!

It's a map. If it doesn't work then throw it away and try a map from somebody else or make your own.

That's kind of the point
Even if the map cost you $350,000; even if it sometimes *resembles* what you actually see, the amount of disinformation included makes it worse than useless, and, no amount of frantic redefining, editing or magic marker scribbling will make that promised 'pot of gold' or 'clear' or 'OT' just around the corner out of the doggy dooty that's actually there.

Zinj

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

When following a sat nav or a map, aren't you trying to go somewhere that YOU determined, and then looking for a route? That's a bit different than having someone else tell you what is there, and then tell you how to look at it.

I determined I would like to hunt down and erase Basic-Basic on the whole track.

If somebody told me how to win a battle against a grizzly bear, and they had credibility due to previous statements that had turned out to be true, I would be foolish to ignore such advice.

I don't answer to anyone these days. Nobody is telling me what I can or can't run. If stuff I find on the www looks workable then I can choose to try it or not. It either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, I sure as hell aren't going to get implanted by it. Hell I've run enough implants to know the difference. It takes a lot to aberrate a being you know.

 

[ULRC/S]

You are right, I also don't see anything he says as a joke - he's flat out a degrader! And I believe he means it personally.

I answered your question as to why, as a FreeZoner, I consider confidential levels need to be kept confidential, but only have so far had shit back for my honest answer.

Makes one less keen to contribute...

Regards, Allen

 

[uniquemand]

You are right, I also don't see anything he says as a joke - he's flat out a degrader! And I believe he means it personally.

I answered your question as to why, as a FreeZoner, I consider confidential levels need to be kept confidential, but only have so far had shit back for my honest answer.

Makes one less keen to contribute...

Regards, Allen

I don't think I gave you any shit, Allen. If I recall correctly, your argument was centered around how people having read those materials could make it more difficult to run their case out, and could restimulate their case to such a point that they had nightmares or possibly experience other debilitating problems.

All the more reason to ELIMINATE those materials. If the person has an item, run it. If they don't, don't introduce it. Don't have it lined up for them when they hit some point you are programming for them. Eliminate it. Handle the person in front of you.

 

[Telepathetic]

Uniquemand,
Your opinions are your opinions, and you are entitled to them.

But I assume you have never had clients phone you up at 3AM screaming because they were in the middle of a terrifying drama because of having read advanced materials on the web before being ready for them.

It may not happen often, but when it does it's SERIOUS problem that causes the involved person HUGE personal upset and turmoil, and any auditor who tries to help a lot of completely unnecessary work and hassle to resolve it.

I follow the policy that confident materials are confidential for very good reasons not financial, and so would any responsible OT auditor or C/S.

You can read whatever you choose, I just hope it's not me you beg for help from if it goes wrong.

Regards, Allen

ULRC,

I'm curious to know how many times this happened--people calling you at 0300 or at any other time, because of a "restim" of this sort?

I have couple of more questions: Do you think that the subject of "body thetans" would have ever come up on a person's case had he/she not first heard of it from LRH's writings?

How do you reconcile the datum of not evaluating for the "PC" and the "OT" materials?

TP

 

[ULRC/S]

Telepathic,
>>I'm curious to know how many times this happened--people calling you at 0300 or at any other time, because of a "restim" of this sort?<<

About five times now - once VERY serious.

>>Do you think that the subject of "body thetans" would have ever come up on a person's case had he/she not first heard of it from LRH's writings?<<

Hell yes, all the time. When in Australia between '86 and '92 I worked with over 100 new public who most had never even heard of LRH & Scn, and certainly never saw OT materials, but most/all had done a lot of new age seminars etc. They had "OT" case alive and well in a high percentage of cases - around 50% if I remember correctly. Some thought it just interesting, others worried by it, and some were seriously frightened by it and very happy to have someone who could help them through it in a stable methodical way.

And once (but only once) I had a new public sit down with me for the initial interview and tell me that I was her last chance, and if I couldn't help her she was going to commit suicide - and then proceeded to tell me all about exact phenomena from OT16...that she had just run into in life! And taken carefully, it was handled all OK.

>How do you reconcile the datum of not evaluating for the "PC" and the "OT" materials?<

I don't see it any different than saying we are going to do Grade One, the first process is..."

If you want to be pedantic, that's also evaluative, but I find it works well.

The OT materials are also only a guide - you are finding your exact connections and handling them with the suggested processes IF THEY READ, and if nothing reads then it's time for a big interview, to see what did happen.

But in my experience, if a person is ready for the level, it runs just fine.

Regards, Allen

 

[Telepathetic]

Telepathic,
>>I'm curious to know how many times this happened--people calling you at 0300 or at any other time, because of a "restim" of this sort?<<

About five times now - once VERY serious.

>>Do you think that the subject of "body thetans" would have ever come up on a person's case had he/she not first heard of it from LRH's writings?<<

Hell yes, all the time. When in Australia between '86 and '92 I worked with over 100 new public who most had never even heard of LRH & Scn, and certainly never saw OT materials, but most/all had done a lot of new age seminars etc. They had "OT" case alive and well in a high percentage of cases - around 50% if I remember correctly. Some thought it just interesting, others worried by it, and some were seriously frightened by it and very happy to have someone who could help them through it in a stable methodical way.

And once (but only once) I had a new public sit down with me for the initial interview and tell me that I was her last chance, and if I couldn't help her she was going to commit suicide - and then proceeded to tell me all about exact phenomena from OT16...that she had just run into in life! And taken carefully, it was handled all OK.

>How do you reconcile the datum of not evaluating for the "PC" and the "OT" materials?<

I don't see it any different than saying we are going to do Grade One, the first process is..."

If you want to be pedantic, that's also evaluative, but I find it works well.

The OT materials are also only a guide - you are finding your exact connections and handling them with the suggested processes IF THEY READ, and if nothing reads then it's time for a big interview, to see what did happen.

But in my experience, if a person is ready for the level, it runs just fine.

Regards, Allen

ALLen,

Thanks for your answers.

I have one more question, if you don't mind:

Do you believe that we,here on planet earth,all need the "OT" levels in order to progress spiritually?

TP

 

[Zinjifar]

OT16? heh

Munchies anyone?

Zinj

 

[ULRC/S]

>>Do you believe that we,here on planet earth,all need the "OT" levels in order to progress spiritually?<<

Depends on what you mean by "OT LEVELS".

I am an open supporter and promoter of Bill Robertson's upper bridge, which starts/continues after OT3, leaving away NOTs.

And yes, I believe everyone would get a major boost from doing these levels. But as you may have read here in this forum, 15 years or so of Solo NOTs may not bring you too much...

The OT levels remove the booby traps to spritual progression, more than being spiritual progression in themselves - at least untill Excalibur (the real next step after OT3) is handled. Then I expect one would get major wins in any effective spiritual path undertaken.

Regards, Allen

 

[Telepathetic]

>>Do you believe that we,here on planet earth,all need the "OT" levels in order to progress spiritually?<<

Depends on what you mean by "OT LEVELS".

I am an open supporter and promoter of Bill Robertson's upper bridge, which starts/continues after OT3, leaving away NOTs.

And yes, I believe everyone would get a major boost from doing these levels. But as you may have read here in this forum, 15 years or so of Solo NOTs may not bring you too much...

The OT levels remove the booby traps to spritual progression, more than being spiritual progression in themselves - at least untill Excalibur (the real next step after OT3) is handled. Then I expect one would get major wins in any effective spiritual path undertaken.

Regards, Allen

What I mean by "OT" levels is...whatever you consider the true"OT" levels to be.

Thanks for your answer.

TP

 

[Zinjifar]

>>Do you believe that we,here on planet earth,all need the "OT" levels in order to progress spiritually?<<

Depends on what you mean by "OT LEVELS".

I am an open supporter and promoter of Bill Robertson's upper bridge, which starts/continues after OT3, leaving away NOTs.

And yes, I believe everyone would get a major boost from doing these levels. But as you may have read here in this forum, 15 years or so of Solo NOTs may not bring you too much...

The OT levels remove the booby traps to spritual progression, more than being spiritual progression in themselves - at least untill Excalibur (the real next step after OT3) is handled. Then I expect one would get major wins in any effective spiritual path undertaken.

Regards, Allen

Do you consider yourself as demonstrating the advantages of the 'OT' levels?

Zinj

 

[ULRC/S]

Unique,
Going back to the original question: "Why doesn't the "Minds Protection" also make confidential levels unneeded?"

When LRH wrote DMSMH he had no idea of what he (and others) were to find later. What he wrote then applied to what he had found in the mind at that time, namely locks, secondaries & engrams. But he had not found GPMs or "OT" phenomena yet, so this statement of his cannot be held up against later discoveries. These new findings are of a completely different level of force! And while GMPs may be in the "mind", OT phenomema are not - they are external!

Like if you build a small fence around your house to keep the neighborhood dogs from crapping on your lawn, you are not expecting it to also keep out any hostile invading army, are you?

Regards, Allen

 

[TA Jacker]

I personally think it takes an awefully messed up person to require the invention of and/or relentless pursuit of such crazy nonsense as the OT levels and any other overly sophisticated spiritual ga ga.

People need to read a little more about the history of Humanism and the invention of the illusion we so dearly call ourself.

Is it not enough to simply live a caring, rewarding, satisfying life of basic animal (heaven forbid) needs, pleasures and desires, without the invention of self-serving, self gratifying anthropocentric frameworks that make us feel special and better than life itself?

Is life really so complex?

I personally find great pleasure and reward in very simple things. I also love a good yarn or a bit of mental gymnastics on the more mysterious side of existence. But taking it all a little too serious can lead you up one hell of a garden path and burn a great hole in your pocket and time.

Are we really so conceited as humans that we truly believe we possess the power to unravel the ultimate secrets of the universe?

Scientology is built on a set of assumptions that most likely are completely false and not even thought up by Ron but stolen from 2000 years of thinking men. The Axions, Factors and Logics make sense only if you agree with there initial assertions and side step a few illogics. Scientologist never bother to find out the true heritage of the knowledge which is Scientology and have it all attributed to Ron!

Is the human mind really capable of solving the problem of the human mind?

Go out and study a bit of Taoism and see how that as easily and profoundly explains human existence.

One thing is for sure, the human mind loves beliefs, and appears to possess the power to make real that which it believes to be true.

Not sure if this post is now even relevant to this thread, but there's me 2 bobs worth anyway!

 

[uniquemand]

I'm conceited enough to think that humankind is capable of understanding the ultimate secrets of the universe, yes, especially with machine augmentation.

I don't think understanding the mind has to be complicated, though. However, just like very complex systems can originate from very simple starting points (see complexity theory), the same can happen with a "technology" to address human mind/spirit. Starts with a simple concept like regression, and discovers something like a GPM. A great deal of complexity can be developed around the handling and understanding of a GPM, but in reality, all you ever need to do is tackle whatever part of it the person's mind is presently focused on, and keep doing that, until the whole thing reduces to a simplicity. Then, perhaps some more regression (which is very simply "earlier similar"), perhaps not.

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

Telepathic,
>>I'm curious to know how many times this happened--people calling you at 0300 or at any other time, because of a "restim" of this sort?<<

About five times now - once VERY serious.

>>Do you think that the subject of "body thetans" would have ever come up on a person's case had he/she not first heard of it from LRH's writings?<<

Hell yes, all the time. When in Australia between '86 and '92 I worked with over 100 new public who most had never even heard of LRH & Scn, and certainly never saw OT materials, but most/all had done a lot of new age seminars etc. They had "OT" case alive and well in a high percentage of cases - around 50% if I remember correctly. Some thought it just interesting, others worried by it, and some were seriously frightened by it and very happy to have someone who could help them through it in a stable methodical way.

Allen, that was a very informative post.

Thanks.

 

[nexus100]

Let's say that this universe is created by the instantaneous process of observing it being created. This is no more complicated than imagining something into existence for yourself. You can imagine a fire truck, then unimagine it.

That means the physical universe exists in our personal "mind" or what I call viewpoint. We each are seeing into this place and creating it as God entire. We now generally believe that we are in the place we are seeing. But we are still creating it.

Where this comes into "OT" is that while we all have our own viewpoint we can occupy the space of anything in the universe if we wish to do so. We occupy that space by looking from that space, that viewpoint. OT 3 happened somewhere, sometime. It is a viewpoint of something. Whether it happened on earth does not matter. It is a viewable article.

Looking at viewpoints obviously grows one's outlook. One is occupying more space. One then can see anything in that new space. The problem comes if one is not ready and willing to see all of the new stuff.

The OT 3 incident includes lots of adjacent ideas. Space travel, volcanoes, other civilizations, lots of stuff. One may find oneself looking back at earth from some distance. If you completely reject that viewpoint, if your reality does not extend into that, fine, no problem. The average earth viewpoint would consider it science fiction. If you go all the way and completely take that viewpoint, fine, no problem. But if some of that viewpoint is within your reality and some is not, there are problems. One's attention is partially on that other viewpoint. One is stuck and that can be a very emotional experience because emotion surrounds many of these viewpoints. It also makes one feel one is not oneself, which is true because one has less focus available. One is less oneself.

That is one reason this sort of auditing is a really really bad idea. There is no good reason to arbitrarily push into viewpoints that one is not ready to see. Inevitably one will adopt an identity to take the viewpoint instead of using pure understanding to occupy it oneself. That is what people call "crazy". Instead of knowing who one is, one becomes more identities. That is the source of "BT's" in nearly all cases, I expect. It is also how OT's can be some of the most screwed up of the lot.

The best thing you can say for it is that when someone is willing to do it you can move them into larger viewpoints. But judging from this board nearly all of them use identities to do so. These identities are deadly because what works is pure understanding. Nothing else really gets the job done of fully moving into other viewpoints. This killed Hubbard's dream and is the reason some people simply refuse to look at the reality of this very much failed tech.
My opinion.

 

[uniquemand]

I completely concur. My favorite exercise for that is to simply postulate another point of view on a scene, and the try to find a another one, from which I can agree with both of those viewpoints. It's good exercise. It metapsychology it's called flexibility.