The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Ted]

Quotable Quote

Carmelo, you are preaching to the choir. I did not want to relate this long somewhat boring story but to give me the proper advice or judge me properly, you have to know that I never gave up. I continued going through obstacles and barriers up until age 61, 9 years ago, at which time I grew to detest the Organization and lost interest in studying its subjects. If I still had the goal of being an auditor, I would go for it full bore but there are other things I am doing know. I reject totally the management of Cof S and only partially accept the validity of auditing. The subject itself is somewhat passe and no longer cutting edge and state of the art. Reading what LRH has to say is no longer exciting to me. Though still possessing occasional brilliance, his CD's and Writings to me no longer possess the magic they did in earlier times. The man has been exposed for what he is and is "damaged goods" to me. I cannot see studying in earnest that which such a flawed man has written. Even though some of the tech is valid and gets a good result, the man is so flawed and dishonest with his field that the excitement, reverence and awe in which I once held him is totally dead. No thanks, I have newer interests which to me are far more interesting than studying and applying LRH.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

as per the study tech, you had too long a runway.

had you, for instance, simply gone to Alan Walter's ranch, you would have been auditing the first day of the first course that you took. There would not have been all those extraordinary stops and requirements.

The scientology I belonged to was "read it, do it"- that was it. nothing else.

you got an exceptional dose of black scientology. -designed to be studied, paid for, paid for again, and paid for, but not ever ever ever used. Did I mention Paid for?

WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN!

Carmelo, it would have been wonderful if I had gone to Alan's Ranch but I did not know about it, in fact this is the first I've heard of it. Too long of a runway is definitely a correct item and it indicates and blows charge. The church wants you to pay for the tech and study it but not to actually use it, how true that is!

More than charge on Don Keeler, Wendy, Jo Anne, etc., the most charge I have is on my self now, for not getting out of C of S years before I made the move. I think I'll take that up with Goldstein instead of the Don Keeler charge. which between the three of you, Blue Spirit, Ted and you, I think I have as-ised by inspection. Thanks guys - 38 years of charge blown by inspection through discourse on ESMB with smart people of good will! Let's hear it for not only the educational value of Panel Discussions but realize that education is one of the ways in which case can be eradicated! LRH tech contains this precept.

The failure for me to leave years or even decades earlier is bothering me. There was some sort of major character failure here that I need to have illuminated. True the internet did not exist and without that, it really is hard to know ALL the truth and get out.

The perception and strength of character was present in me in 1973 on the Apollo when I stood up to Maria Starkey and demanded to be routed out of the Sea Org, right from the ship where LRH was present! I had enough perception, integrity and courage to do that but when it came to getting out of all of Scn I failed. It turns out my wife decided in about 1991 to quit and stopped going to events and taking services but she still pretended to be a Scientologist. That was probably the earliest point when I could have gotten out. Our kids were only 4 and 9 and we still wanted to stay together and raise them. After my wife stopped participating in 1991, I could have done the same but I was getting NOTS and having wins from it so it was not in the cards Well, whatever it was, I did not have the courage or insight to rebel and it bothers me. I had a misplaced loyalty to LRH, I thought he helped me more than I could ever repay and that I must support him. I wrote an exit story on Through the Door Interviews in December of 1995 under the name, "minireel", and at that time, I had full allegience to LRH. I did a second interview there under the same name in early 2007. If anyone is interested, they are there to be read. My change from Dec 2005, 4 years ago is huge - just a total shift in viewpoint. Until I got to ESMB this February, I was pretty much the same as in Dec 2005 but ESMB has caused most of the changes.
Lakey

 

[Ted]

as per the study tech, you had too long a runway.

had you, for instance, simply gone to Alan Walter's ranch, you would have been auditing the first day of the first course that you took. There would not have been all those extraordinary stops and requirements.

The scientology I belonged to was "read it, do it"- that was it. nothing else.

you got an exceptional dose of black scientology. -designed to be studied, paid for, paid for again, and paid for, but not ever ever ever used. Did I mention Paid for?

When I was supervising Div. 6 co-audits, the first evening I talked about ARC, communication cycles, auditor/pc relationships, and expectations. The remainder of the week the students co-audited.

The auditing thing has been complicated beyond belief, even before GAT.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN!

Carmelo, it would have been wonderful if I had gone to Alan's Ranch but I did not know about it, in fact this is the first I've heard of it. Too long of a runway is definitely a correct item and it indicates and blows charge. The church wants you to pay for the tech and study it but not to actually use it, how true that is!

More than charge on Don Keeler, Wendy, Jo Anne, etc., the most charge I have is on my self now, for not getting out of C of S years before I made the move. I think I'll take that up with Goldstein instead of the Don Keeler charge. which between the three of you, Blue Spirit, Ted and you, I think I have as-ised by inspection. Thanks guys - 38 years of charge blown by inspection through discourse on ESMB with smart people of good will! Let's hear it for not only the educational value of Panel Discussions but realize that education is one of the ways in which case can be eradicated! LRH tech contains this precept.

The failure for me to leave years or even decades earlier is bothering me. There was some sort of major character failure here that I need to have illuminated. True the internet did not exist and without that, it really is hard to know ALL the truth and get out.

The perception and strength of character was present in me in 1973 on the Apollo when I stood up to Maria Starkey and demanded to be routed out of the Sea Org, right from the ship where LRH was present! I had enough perception, integrity and courage to do that but when it came to getting out of all of Scn I failed. It turns out my wife decided in about 1991 to quit and stopped going to events and taking services but she still pretended to be a Scientologist. That was probably the earliest point when I could have gotten out. Our kids were only 4 and 9 and we still wanted to stay together and raise them. After my wife stopped participating in 1991, I could have done the same but I was getting NOTS and having wins from it so it was not in the cards Well, whatever it was, I did not have the courage or insight to rebel and it bothers me. I had a misplaced loyalty to LRH, I thought he helped me more than I could ever repay and that I must support him. I wrote an exit story on Through the Door Interviews in December of 1975 under the name, "minireel", and at that time, I had full allegience to LRH. I did a second interview there under the same name in early 2007. If anyone is interested, they are there to be read. My change from Dec 2005, 4 years ago is huge - just a total shift in viewpoint. Until I got to ESMB this February, I was pretty much the same as in Dec 2005 but ESMB has caused most of the changes.
Lakey

Going against or in a different direction than the group can be a monumental task for many. Even for something simple.

When I did a PEAT co audit once, I got a deeper insight into the pressures of group think.

Speaking for myself, when I was the first person, in our family, to become vegetarian, it felt very uncomfortable. Everyone else was eating burgers. We'd do barbeques, and I'd have veggie burgers. The feeling of undermining the dominant reality was palpable.
After a year, and my persisting, and others joining in the no meat eating, it became comfortable again.

When I left Scientology in 1976, I was going against the general consensus. My choice wasn't easy for the "true blues" in our social circle, at first, but without saying anything confrontational, within several years I was joined by almost all our friends and family.

Generally speaking, people (I include myself) try to meet others reality. We compromise. If you're living with a big eater, you'll probably over eat. If your partner goes to the gym every day, chances are you'll go too.

Someone has to take the lead in a positive direction. Then they have to make it safe to join them. Leaders do not have to have credentials. They have to be able to walk alone for awhile.

 

[Blue Spirit]

Yes, You Are So Right

as per the study tech, you had too long a runway.

had you, for instance, simply gone to Alan Walter's ranch, you would have been auditing the first day of the first course that you took. There would not have been all those extraordinary stops and requirements.

The scientology I belonged to was "read it, do it"- that was it. nothing else.

you got an exceptional dose of black scientology. -designed to be studied, paid for, paid for again, and paid for, but not ever ever ever used. Did I mention Paid for?

You are so, so right on this.

It has been purposely made out-of-reach by too long a runway.

I know some who paid for the B.C. 3 times.

Thanks for the post, and I'd like to hear more about the ranch by post or PM.

 

[Blue Spirit]

PEAT ?

Going against or in a different direction than the group can be a monumental task for many. Even for something simple.

When I did a PEAT co audit once, I got a deeper insight into the pressures of group think.

What is "PEAT" ?

 

[Blue Spirit]

When I was supervising Div. 6 co-audits, the first evening I talked about ARC, communication cycles, auditor/pc relationships, and expectations. The remainder of the week the students co-audited.

The auditing thing has been complicated beyond belief, even before GAT.

I've been working with someone who was in and out early and the comm is so

natural and effortless that I had more gain in the first two sessions (no

processes) than in the last two years with the "expert" SP Class-8 I was with.

It fact the case went South with that guy. All blamed carefully on me.

Scientology has attracted some great people and some who were hiding out.

Sometimes in the same person !

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

What is "PEAT" ?

I don't know what it stands for anymore. I helped edit the book about ten years ago. It is by an ill tempered man (where have I heard this story!) in Yugoslavia. He was trying to copy Alan Walter's "codes", but instead, got something else.

I promoted a PEAT seminar in Norwalk in the mid 90s. A lot of people came. We all did it. It was good. We followed it by bringing the developer out, Zivorad Slavinsky (or something close to that) just after 9/11. Prior to 9/11 people had paid for airlines, hotels, etc, and then because of 9/11 cancelled. It was a non money maker. And the Z man was a prima donna asshole. We didn't even go. We went to Disneyland instead.

PEAT, without Z is better than PEAT with Z.

It is a technique which uses EFT and earlier similar poles to reach a cog that has lasted me in good stead for over a decade.

For good info currently get on IVy or Freezone Friends (Yahoo).

 

[SweetnessandLight]

A good auditor!

Lakey, I just want to add a viewpoint, that what you are doing here with "leading" or facilitating this thread is like auditing. BY that I mean that you and others are getting case gain and blowing charge from doing it, from being present and in comm with each other. Isn't that good? This is what I meant when I said that I could clearly see that you were still growing and evolving, and not to quit writing about your experiences and insights.

And you didn't even need a certificate.

 

[Ted]

I've been working with someone who was in and out early and the comm is so

natural and effortless that I had more gain in the first two sessions (no

processes) than in the last two years with the "expert" SP Class-8 I was with.

It fact the case went South with that guy. All blamed carefully on me.

Scientology has attracted some great people and some who were hiding out.

Sometimes in the same person !

Some auditors, of all classes, act as though the pc is a turd that they poke with a ten-foot pole to see if it is still wet and stinky. They are the ones who confront with tech. Tech is the pole.

Some of us are guided by a natural sense of interest and curiosity. Pc's are welcomed into the space. There's a big difference between confronting with tech and confronting with nothing.

Presence, as ACW had defined it, is even mo' betta than confronting.

 

[lkwdblds]

Thanks again for the added insights.

Lakey, I just want to add a viewpoint, that what you are doing here with "leading" or facilitating this thread is like auditing. BY that I mean that you and others are getting case gain and blowing charge from doing it, from being present and in comm with each other. Isn't that good? This is what I meant when I said that I could clearly see that you were still growing and evolving, and not to quit writing about your experiences and insights.

And you didn't even need a certificate.

Thanks S & L. Very astute and supportive comments!! You are so spot on! What a wonderful cadre of people to be in discourse with on a regular basis. {I looked up cadre before using it and is a small part of a nucleus of a larger entity.} Another way of saying this is that this is a great group of "buds" to hang with.

You, Carmelo, Ted, Enthetan, Blue Spirit, Thetanic, guests, et al, It is a great little 3rd dynamic within a larger third dynamic. I know that I for one am making casegain here and I sense that others are as well. Groups like this were once commonplace in C of S, if only that could have continued and grown.

Each of the other posts today was extremely informative and full of incites. They are all so good and I don't want to answer each individually so I am acknowledging you all.
Lakey

 

[Blue Spirit]

Beautiful Understanding

Some auditors, of all classes, act as though the pc is a turd that they poke with a ten-foot pole to see if it is still wet and stinky. They are the ones who confront with tech. Tech is the pole.

Some of us are guided by a natural sense of interest and curiosity. Pc's are welcomed into the space. There's a big difference between confronting with tech and confronting with nothing.

Presence, as ACW had defined it, is even mo' betta than confronting.

You have a beautiful understanding. His TR-0 was a rigid, no-blink, tenseness

which really didn't feel good or safe. It made for a session presence worse

than any other auditor out of about 15, or so.

What you say about confronting with the tech, and about ACW are very real

to me and I sure appreciate your Spot-On indications.

Fortunately I have the best of connections in Knowledgism and Scientology,

so even though I've been reverse audited, I'll make it.

ACW was so Black PR'ed that I used to believe he was an SP. NO WAY.

 

[Blue Spirit]

Similar Reality

WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN!

Between the three of you, Blue Spirit, Ted and you, I think I have as-ised by inspection. Thanks guys - 38 years of charge blown by inspection through discourse on ESMB with smart people of good will!

The failure for me to leave years or even decades earlier is bothering me. There was some sort of major character failure here that I need to have illuminated. True the internet did not exist and without that, it really is hard to know ALL the truth and get out.
Lakey

First, I appreciate the compliment. It gives me case gain to help someone.

Second, I have still fantastic amounts of charge on what happened to the

"Church" and me suffering an incredible amount of loss from it, in all ways.

So I can for sure relate to your pain there. I've not come to terms with it yet,

particularly since I also pulled in the ONE person in the Freezone who

wanted to continue the Fucking. NOTE: I've been audited by two excellent auditors in the Freezone

and find the people there to be good spirits and good with the tech too.

I've not been an angry person, but when I got the full story on the net about

LRH, the takeover of the "Church", the mass declares to take out all of the

effective producers and tech people I was livid and started throwing things.

I got stopped 9 times by the cops, and have not been stopped for 20 years before that.

(only one speeding ticket and one cell phone ticket; it helps to have gray hair and to have a not-give-a-damn attitude.


I'm not someone to Fuck with, but it happened.

So, Lakey, I have the same issues, of as I see it forfeiting my Integrity without even realizing it and my

Integrity is priceless to me, and it is clear to me, the way things are going, I'll die for it this lifetime.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Beauty for ashes...

Thanks, Lakey, for the ack, it touched me.. And thanks to all the other "good guys" here on this thread.

Spirit- love is the greatest tech of all. Trying to use the tech, without a loving, caring intention and presence for your partner, is useless at best or harmful at worst.

Sometimes, by experiencing a really bad application of a process, we then really can see clearly and appreciate a good or great one, and thereby never waste our time with a bad application again.

There is something in the Bible about restoring the years that the locusts have eaten. I was thinking about that for Feral and Mrs. Pattycake and family and neighbors, surviving their big fires right now in New South Wales.

But there are slow fires, too. And some of my good friends here have survived a lot of losses due to those slow fires. I wish I could wave a magic wand and restore all that has been lost.

Scientology is something that must be survived, make no mistake about it.

Surviving is an ongoing process.

Having the comraderie and support of fellow travellers on this board is very healing for most of us. I feel very honored to be a part of your cadre here on this thread, Lakey! It's a good word to describe us.

Big hugs to all, with hopes that ashes will be replaced by beauty in your lives.

One thing that always helps me with my outlook is to count my blessings, my Dad used to say, keep your eye on the doughnut and not on the hole. (He was a folksy kind of guy!)

You still have your life, and hopefully your health. Many didn't get out of Scientology with that. Be grateful for your life. There is still time to make it wonderful.

I am grateful for every single person on this board. Big hugs to all!

With Much Love from Sweetness

 

[Blue Spirit]

TR's Versus Presence

Some auditors, of all classes, act as though the pc is a turd that they poke with a ten-foot pole to see if it is still wet and stinky. They are the ones who confront with tech. Tech is the pole.

Some of us are guided by a natural sense of interest and curiosity. Pc's are welcomed into the space. There's a big difference between confronting with tech and confronting with nothing.

Presence, as ACW had defined it, is even mo' betta than confronting.

It is sort of funny or something that I've never been quite able to understand the TR's even though I've word cleared the

Bulletins to near agony (or is the agony from doing TR-0 ?) and the last many times I've had Cognitions in the

first 10 minutes of drilling TR-0.

All of this is to say that the concept of "Presence" gives so much more understanding of the useful ability with this in session.

Actually from two sessions alone with a person with very good Presence, I was able to have a huge gain in my "TR-0" or

Presence. We were not doing "TR's" either. Also I read a short Elkhart Tolle book a while back on the

concept of "NOW" which gave me more TR-0 gain than all of the LRH stuff. Sad but true.


It is such a RELIEF to finally get out from under the LIE that LRH knew everything about everything.


BTW, on this area the comments by Dennis Stephens available in writing or by

recording on the net are very telling. In a nutshell he said (without any

animousity in his voice) that LRH was a "CONFRONTER" NOT AN "EXPERIENCER".

Dennis Stephens was with LRH through most of the fifties and again in the early sixties.

 

[Ted]

You have a beautiful understanding. His TR-0 was a rigid, no-blink, tenseness

which really didn't feel good or safe. It made for a session presence worse

than any other auditor out of about 15, or so.

What you say about confronting with the tech, and about ACW are very real

to me and I sure appreciate your Spot-On indications.

Fortunately I have the best of connections in Knowledgism and Scientology,

so even though I've been reverse audited, I'll make it.

ACW was so Black PR'ed that I used to believe he was an SP. NO WAY.

Yes, having the right connections is important. You will make it -- wherever or whatever "it" happens to be for you.

No doubt ACW could be a dominating, ornery cuss. We met some years ago looking at the possibility of me working with him and his people. His reputation had preceded him. Yet, we had been respectfully in touch on a.c.t.

I went to Dallas to meet. Over lunch it was readily obvious to me that this guy was a very good auditor. This is something I might have guessed at in reading his internet postings, but that would have been just a guess considering the 3P that preceded him.

I say that he was obviously a good auditor not because either of us had any coffee shop auditing going on, but because there was a free give and take in the communication cycle and a relaxed freedom to examine own thoughts, that is out of the norm for most of what passes for communication IRL. In social conversation, people don't usually access how they really think and feel.

In my experience, scientologists are among the more difficult people to audit. Many have misunderstoods and expectations that are sometimes just downright weird. It's like before session they are pretty much themselves, then when they pick up the cans you are auditing someone else, the pc valence. Talk about implants, there it is! Scientology delivered as implantology. It seems that as time marches forward, fewer and fewer people have a clue as to the ideal scene for a session. Auditing a pc off the street, or one setup through a Mission, was way different than auditing an SO member. The deeper in scientology, it seems, the greater the opportunity for misunderstoods and weird expectations.

Part of the implant says the higher classed the auditor the better. I have always encouraged my students and pc's to find someone they can talk to, someone who they feel comfortable with, someone who they trust. There has to be a mutual degree of comfort and trust in this working relationship called auditor/pc. A fantastic process is along the lines of, "Tell me your story. Tell me so I can understand it. If I don't understand something, I ask a few questions. Okay?" Then just kick back and listen. And really make an effort to understand. It doesn't take a classed auditor to do that. It takes a friend or a fellow human being.

As a pc I have always wanted my auditors to win. In turn, I have won big. I know other people have, too. Sometimes the wins and gains and enlightenments are so huge no one, not the auditor, not the C/S, not L. Ron Hubbard, would really understand. I am still twigging on stuff I achieved more than 30 years ago. Some of my most enlightening moments in auditing have been in the presence of student auditors. Give me someone I enjoy talking to, and a little bit of guidance when I stumble. That's all I need.

And to end off on this post, I find the following quote exactly expresses how I feel about good auditing:

But oh! the blessing it is to have a friend to whom one can speak fearlessly on any subject;
with whom one’s deepest as well as one’s most foolish thoughts come out simply and safely.
Oh, the comfort—the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person—
having neither to weigh thoughts nor measure words,
but pouring them all right out, just as they are, chaff and grain together;
certain that a faithful hand will take and sift them,
keep what is worth keeping,
and then with the breath of kindness blow the rest away.
— Dinah Craik, A Life for a Life, (1859)​

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Love that poem!

Thanks Ted, for that excellent post. What you have described as really good auditing goes exactly for wog counselling, too. I have always really loved that poem, seeing it again is like seeing the face of an old friend. Thank you so much for posting it here! Big hug!

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

The failure for me to leave years or even decades earlier is bothering me. There was some sort of major character failure here that I need to have illuminated. True the internet did not exist and without that, it really is hard to know ALL the truth and get out.

The perception and strength of character was present in me in 1973 on the Apollo when I stood up to Maria Starkey and demanded to be routed out of the Sea Org, right from the ship where LRH was present! I had enough perception, integrity and courage to do that but when it came to getting out of all of Scn I failed. It turns out my wife decided in about 1991 to quit and stopped going to events and taking services but she still pretended to be a Scientologist. That was probably the earliest point when I could have gotten out. Our kids were only 4 and 9 and we still wanted to stay together and raise them. After my wife stopped participating in 1991, I could have done the same but I was getting NOTS and having wins from it so it was not in the cards Well, whatever it was, I did not have the courage or insight to rebel and it bothers me. I had a misplaced loyalty to LRH, I thought he helped me more than I could ever repay and that I must support him. I wrote an exit story on Through the Door Interviews in December of 1995 under the name, "minireel", and at that time, I had full allegience to LRH. I did a second interview there under the same name in early 2007. If anyone is interested, they are there to be read. My change from Dec 2005, 4 years ago is huge - just a total shift in viewpoint. Until I got to ESMB this February, I was pretty much the same as in Dec 2005 but ESMB has caused most of the changes.
Lakey

Just as a word to the wise, Tomorrow might be a good day to bring Mrs. Lakey a dozen red roses, take her out to dinner in Marina Del Rey or La Jolla or some nice dining area wherever you live close to. Tell her (this is called an acknowledgment for those of you who only learned "good" "fine" "OK" "alright" "and "thank you") how smart she was to recognize Sci for what it is /was. Find out what you can do to make life better for her. She spent a long time making life good for you, even though she knew it was BS. Now, you spend loads of time on the internet. What would be a good balance of help or quality time for HER? She might like time at La Costa or perhaps Costco.

Another suggestion might be to take her to the Guy Fieri Roadshow at The Wiltern on Wilshire Thursday night.

 

[Blue Spirit]

Very Good Advice

Just as a word to the wise, Tomorrow might be a good day to bring Mrs. Lakey a dozen red roses, take her out to dinner in Marina Del Rey or La Jolla or some nice dining area wherever you live close to. Tell her (this is called an acknowledgment for those of you who only learned "good" "fine" "OK" "alright" "and "thank you") how smart she was to recognize Sci for what it is /was. Find out what you can do to make life better for her. She spent a long time making life good for you, even though she knew it was BS. Now, you spend loads of time on the internet. What would be a good balance of help or quality time for HER?

You know Lakey that is very good advice from a lady who knows about such things.

I'm sure that would get you many Husband points !

You and I Lakey probably do need to eat a little Crow, if you know what I mean.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

I'd like to hear more about the ranch by post or PM.

Alan Walter's ranch is in North Texas near the Oklahoma border. In the summer it is really hot. In the winter, it is cold. There are scorpions and other wild life, who share the territory with you. It used to be a summer camp. It has rustic cottages and a big main building (think summer camp). It's a little ramshackle, but come next month, the last mortgage payment will be made, and it'll be debt free. There is always maintenance.

There is about four staff. hey have been with the program for about a decade or more. Unlike Scientology, there isn't a feeling that your pocket is being picked every time you're there. They are pretty relaxed about money. They expect it, and they expect to give good service in exchange.

You get there by flying into DFW, renting a car, and driving through Nacona (like in the boots)to St. Jo, TX. If you've never been to nowhere near anywhere before this is as close as you'll ever get.

When Alan got the place, he had a center in a business oriented strip mall in Big D (Dallas). He was right in there with Zig Ziglar, and other self help business operations. But the one thing they didn't have, that Alan had was a Scientology owned PI sitting outside his auditing room day in day out. I'm sure they heard (with listening devices) every word spoken in that center.

With the center moved to bum fuck nowhere, no more Scio PIs could be camped outside.

As for the tech, it is what the tech **might** have evolved into had it not gotten sidetracked in the 60s. The courses are like the St. Hill briefing course used to be like. There is loads of co processing going on in the big room outdoors among the trees, in the cabins. There is lots of laughter and high toned interested and happy people.

Alan's friend will take it over and it will continue to grow flourish and prosper. More importantly, the clients of the ranch will grow flourish and prosper. You won't get reg calls on Thursday at 2 from anyone there.