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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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hbeer

Patron with Honors
Heidrun, thank you for your openess in sharing your and Paul's story of a wonderful marriage, I was very touched by it! :bigcry: :) I do think that Soulmates can find each other across seeming distances of space and time, if they allow themselves to do so! Paul seems like such a lovely being and I feel that I got to know him well through your website on him. I am sincerely sorry that he was not able to stay with you physically longer, but I know he did his best. My sense is that he lived much longer with you in his life, and clearly had more happiness, than he would have without you. That he loved you completely clearly shines forth in his pictures, and is palpable still! Love never dies. I love the pictures of him and the cats! :happydance:

My take on the nine year thing is this...not so much that he postulated that was all the time that he would have, but that he postulated that he would have that much time with you, his body was already struggling with many serious problems when you met and married.

If he had not had the courage to follow up on his attraction to you, including moving to a foreign country and becoming an instant Father to four, think of how much joy and happiness you both would have missed out on! Happiness helps us to overcome our physical limitations. He might not have lived nearly as long as he did, if he had given in to fear or self-defeating thoughts about going for happiness with you! I think also that he, even while struggling with such serious physical health issues, having such a good sense of humor, lasted nine years because he did not want to be bested by either of your previous husbands! :D I see him as a Big Being and a real winner at what really matters in life! :yes:

Thank you again for sharing your story together here. :heartflower: :heartflower:


Hi S+L,


wow, beautiful words. Your really took the time to read that page! Wow.

I never looked at it that way, but you could be right, his life could have been shorter too! I always felt guilty for not making it right for him to enjoy a long happy retirement, but then I think he wouldn't have enjoyed it too much with the body so sick.

Some months before his death I got the message from the spiritual universe that they would take him out of physical life. I said "Over my cold dead body!!!" and that I would fight them to the last bit of my energy. The response was a mild smile: "Fight all you want... [we wouldn't expect less of you!]"

Well, that's long over now, nearly 3 years, and there would be other stories to tell, but this is actually all a bit off topic.



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Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
On the Subject of Real Spiritual Operating Phenomena

There are two major movements happening right now. One is the OBE (out of body experience) training in the tradition of Robert Monroe - done in the Monroe Institute, and by OBE gurus William Buhlman and Robert Bruce. That's what SCN always promised but never delivered - the ability to operate outside and independent of a body.

The other one is "Life between Lives" regression in the tradition of Michael Newton (I just mentioned that in an earlier post).

There is also Brian Weiss, a former head of hospital psychiatry department, who first developed past life regression, then wrote a series of bestselling books, then turned completely spiritual. He has a large followership.

Brian Weiss is the only one who does some kind of clearing. The big LbL and OBE movements don't have clearing tech. It is my dream to combine these movements with FZ SCN - each of them has what the other is missing!

I an interjecting into this thread a subject mentioned above by Heidrun. Carmelo suggested I do so here. Lakey is OK on it.

That subject is TRUE Spiritual Operating Phenomena.

This means only PRACTICAL Workable occurences with ACTUAL results of a

Spiritual basis. NO theory is of interest unless it has lead to actual RESULTS.

WINS can be part of it and should be. I've had a few, even though not in the higher levels per se.

What we are going after here is how to obtain these SKILLS as you may have and others may have too.

Included should be the tech of Scientology (Original & later OT levels), Knowledgism, the subjects mentioned by Heidrun

above that obtain useful and Practical results, and any other subject meeting these requirements.

You pure scientific types need not apply if you would have to have physical

proofs of phenomena not basically part of the Spiritual Abilities.

I hasten to add that these abilities have often produced physical results, and I know of some personally who did it regularly.


The floor is open for discussion.
 

hbeer

Patron with Honors
Heidrun, by all means, search and read threads. You don't have to make this like a work project, you can just look around and have fun. You will find that there are some which are quite Freezone friendly, and OT powers talk friendly, as well as ones with jokes and stories and cooking recipes, and pet pictures, not at all serious, but fun. Others are very earnest about activism, etc. Some are just rants, to blow off steam (and charge!). Everything under the sun.

I feel confident that you have much to contribute, but take your time and get to understand the culture of the ESMBers a little more, get familiar and feel comfortable. Then start your own thread(s).

You have kind of jumped in to the deep end of the pool here by starting with this thread, feel free to wade around and get comfortable elsewhere, too. :)

If you are talking about the tech, or auditing outside of Corporate Scientology, there are sections here for that where you can begin a new thread on a subject or technique. You can also introduce yourself in the new member section first, which might makes things a little easier. I think it is against the rules for you to advertise a product or service, but you can put a link to your website, many do that. It will not be showing any counter intention to the purpose of the board, which is just to provide a safe space for Ex's, Freezoners and Critics to meet and talk with one another.

I'm very glad you joined us here! :)

Blue, don't push the river! :coolwink: Just trust in the Universe, and let it flow! :)



Oh that sounds good, much more like I feel.

I really have to learn how you guys stay on top of this river. It seems to move so fast :)



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What constitutes a 2D?

Blue - There is a Yiddish name for matchmaker. It is called a "shadchen". I always heard it prounounced as shot kin so I Googled it. It sounds like someone who rode shot gun on the old 1800's stage coaches.

I've been married for 28 1/2 years and we are separated. We have agreed to dissolve the marriage and it should be dissolved by next month. We live together for economic reasons and we are best pals and friends and close confidants. We have a lot of equity tied up in our home and don't want to sell with the pricess down about 1/3 from 2 years ago. We go out for dinner about once a week and have company over, such as cousins all non Scientologists, and no one knows we are breaking up. Our kids are 22 and 27 now but we have no grandchildren. We both love the kids equally. I married above my pay grade just like you, Blue, she stuck it out with me until the kids were raised and then unlike your beautiful wife, she wanted more romance than I was able to give her. She's 13 1/2 years younger than me and still beautiful but the old magic was not there anymore for me. I told her to start dating, said I still love her but more like a friend and a confidant and not a lover, you know a brother and sIster type of love. As far as another 2D, I can take it or leave it. I can still perform the act well but it would have to really be somebody special to make me want to start a new serious 2D. Now dating and having fun, yes that would be tremendously exciting but all shadchens keep your distance from me.

Heidrun and me are like sould mates, same birthday, she's from Austria and I have track there, in the 18th and early 19th centuries and I love to speak German, we both love opera. Our approaches to Scientology are very similar. She has taken the time to read every page on my damn thread, every time I log in, she is on line reading and posting. Had I met her 35 years earlier, yes, it sounds like a perfect match for marriage, raising a family and all that but for now, just good friends, close friends, confidants, perhaps working together on a project, discussing books we've read, movies we've seen and all that type of stuff but no shadchens please.
Lakey

Lakey's post brought this to my writing mind, but my life brings it to my attention.

Depending on how you count them (his, hers, theirs, ours), we have 7 children and 9 grandchildren.

We think we know a thing or two on the subject of having and raising children.

But a 2D is more than children. It is more than sex.

Whether we are talking a normal heterosexual union, a gay union, or some other configuration, we are talking about getting our vectors in line.

There are very close couples who have no sex. I knew one couple, who had loads of sex, and raised awful children.

In my mind, the 2D should be about family. For us it is a big picture. It is the older family members, who may die sometime soon. It is about the grandchildren not yet poddy trained. It is all of those people, including ones who've died or not yet been born.

As someone, who is definitely on the record as to enjoying sex, I can still see that without it, we'd be together. Some people snort coke, we do kids. They're probably both expensive and time consuming pursuits, but we really like kids.

For Christmas, our youngest daughter got one of her nephews, a boy of 11, two books on Kanji (Japanese characters). He has been surfing the net, found a web site to teach him Japanese, and has been pursuing that on his own. For his sister, who is 9, our daughter took her to the store and got her running shoes, and then took her running 3 1/2 miles in the mountains this afternoon. They followed that with some hot tubing and a green meal.

We have all the family at our house for every holiday. We create family activities, ie., trips to the snow, to the Islands, the beach, museums, etc.

As Roger has pointed out, it goes to the basic of being present. Seeing what is going on in present time, coordinating actions, working through conditions, and making things go right.

We don't encourage little people to be like us. We encourage them to be like themselves. If they have an interest, we'll contribute to their doing it, but we won't do it for them. Most of our family skis. When the 11 year old boy was 6, I took him off his first cornices. That same year, we took his sister up and down an intermediate course for most of the day in a snow storm. she kept saying "again." She got faster and faster.

On the other hand, we aren't real big fans of television watching. Our viewpoint just oozes out and pervades the family. It is a matter of "corrupting" the youth. - giving them something more fun to do in their spare time.

But back to defining a 2D. 2Ds are a small group dedicated to certain purposes and activities. You can have a single couple, who never has any intention of having children. They have agreed on the roles that each plays, and upon the purpose(s) of being together. You can have a stay at home wife or husband, you can have both parties working, or both playing on money in the bank.

There just aren't any set boxes that you need to stuff yourself into. What is needed is to expand yourself and pervade the individuals' universes that are in your particular 2D. Once you've done that, you can help them get what they want or to help them find out what they want. getting you and your partner and the other family members energies and activities aligned in the same direction is like being a football coach. Some players require 8C. Some friendliness and logic. Some a two by four next to their heads (just kidding). Each is treated as the individual that they are, but together those individuals go out as a team, and kick butt. That is what families can do with and for each other.

The leaders of the family have to know their admin scales. They have to know their priorities and importances. Then you can perceive out points and plus points.

Encouraging your children to be winners is a 24/7 activity. It filters out from who you are to what you expect of them.

As an example, we have a pug dog. Pugs are known as lap dogs and for their friendly disposition. Ours is no exception....... except for the day the summer before last, when we were standing in line to buy a pizza. A Rottweiler attacked him. I was holding his leash, but he was behind me. When I heard the scuffle, I turned around to see my dog standing on a 90 pound Rottweiler, who was laying, with my dog's teeth firmly in the Rottweiler's neck. The other people in line behind me told me what had happened. The Rottweiler had attacked my dog, and my dog, all 20 pounds, took him down in under 2 seconds.

That kind of attitude is what I would hope my children would have, what my father gave me, what I try to give my grandchildren and those who I touch.

ARC is wonderful, but sometimes you have to take the bull by the horns. My father used to say, "It's a great life, if you don't weaken."

When it comes to creating a 2D, it is a good idea to pervade each other's space, to know them inside and out, to be in agreement on purposes, plans, culture, activities, future(s), recreation, and damned near everything else. Having a frenemy for a 2D partner is not optimum. That condition can be upgraded. i find that it is usually better to upgrade than disconnect.
 
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hbeer

Patron with Honors
Sweet - I just wanted to than you for teaching Heidrun the ropes and wearing the hat of host here. I think you gave her good advice, first the new member section and then links to her website and then start her own threads.

Heidrun - I think you should follow S & L's advice. Meanwhile, you are more than welcome to post your stuff here as long as you like. It hleps increase my viewership as well. You have so much to say that is worthwhile that there will soon come a time when you want to host your own threads.
Lakey


Thanks Lakey. Yes, L+S's gradient approach feels more like it.

I am still not sure that I will feel like originating, so I may just respond, at least for a while...



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Yez, I do!

270913946_efa38ec3d8.jpg
 

hbeer

Patron with Honors
Maybe it's a very nice cosmic birthday present to you both from the Universe! :D :clap: Did you ever consider that? "Here's a new friend that you can play with and will have lots in common with"...And the rest of us just get to have warm fuzzies for a moment by getting to play along with you on this thread! :D


Actually, yes!

The desperate need for a 2D disappeared for me this year. First when I saw that I could have 50 lovers in a week through a certain web site - that's nice havingness, even if it is not really my pot of tea -, and then through the auditing which went to the root of this despair.

Then I started to enjoy my remote connections more and began to build them up systematically.

Somehow it feels more OT to share space with people all around the globe. Also I stopped to think that all features I want in a partner have to come together in one person. It could be a whole harem, as far as I am concerned :yes:

I think I really enjoy the networking that's happening now, and you people are a great expansion in that!

Only the practical aspects of being single are still grim. I'll have to become more creative on that and work out some clever solutions.



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hbeer

Patron with Honors
Heidrun, I'll check into the Independents category and if what I want isn't there I'll start it.

What I've observed is that sometimes important posts get lost in threads

where the title would not be appropriate for the post, so it is lost to most.

Your background and real OT interests and abilities deserved their own thread.


As for S & L, I'm a pedal-to-the-metal kind of guy, so get out of my way. :lol:

Actually time here is running out fast, but most ignore that as unconfrontable.



ROFL!

Your points are good points. I'll have to shift around my "internet time budget" a bit to make that happen. First I thought it would be only a short holiday thing, but your ideas are intriguing!



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I an interjecting into this thread a subject mentioned above by Heidrun. Carmelo suggested I do so here. Lakey is OK on it.

That subject is TRUE Spiritual Operating Phenomena.

This means only PRACTICAL Workable occurences with ACTUAL results of a

Spiritual basis. NO theory is of interest unless it has lead to actual RESULTS.

WINS can be part of it and should be. I've had a few, even though not in the higher levels per se.

What we are going after here is how to obtain these SKILLS as you may have and others may have too.

Included should be the tech of Scientology (Original & later OT levels), Knowledgism, the subjects mentioned by Heidrun

above that obtain useful and Practical results, and any other subject meeting these requirements.

You pure scientific types need not apply if you would have to have physical

proofs of phenomena not basically part of the Spiritual Abilities.

I hasten to add that these abilities have often produced physical results, and I know of some personally who did it regularly.


The floor is open for discussion.

Huh??

Can you give four or five examples of what you're talking about, and then maybe an example or two of what you aren't talking about?
 

hbeer

Patron with Honors
BLUE SPIRIT IS PROVED RIGHT AGAIN AND TAKES A BOW, S & L gets an "ack" for her assist, Heidrun becomes Source of her own ideas instead of riding on someone else's coat tails and Lakey, well Lakey, he loses a little readership but he doesn't care, he now has a protege out there who will always remember his thread fondly as the place where she first started. What could be better than a game where everyone wins and all due to the impetus of the clever minded Blue Spirit.
Lakey


Neat summary :) :)



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A Doggie Tale

Carmelo, I have a theory about this story:

"As an example, we have a pug dog. Pugs are known as lap dogs and for their friendly disposition. Ours is no exception....... except for the day the summer before last, when we were standing in line to buy a pizza. A Rottweiler attacked him. I was holding his leash, but he was behind me. When I heard the scuffle, I turned around to see my dog standing on a 90 pound Rottweiler, who was laying, with my dog's teeth firmly in the Rottweiler's neck. The other people in line behind me told me what had happened. The Rottweiler had attacked my dog, and my dog, all 20 pounds, took him down in under 2 seconds."

I LOVE pugs, by the way...:p
O.K. Here's my theory. You say the Rotty attacked your dog, who was on a leash and behind you (not very good perceiving on your part, but we all get distracted :no:). This is what I think. I think if your dog really thought that the Rotty was attacking him, he never would have been able "to get on top" of that situation...I think your dog perceived that the Rotty was attacking you, and went into defensive overdrive the way Parents do when their kids are in danger. I think he was not being so protective of himself, but of you. You're one of his special persons.

He was protecting his family, his pack, however your want to think of it.
We all have somebody in our lives, sooner or later, if we are sane and well and whole-souled people, that we feel that way about. We would hurl ourselves into danger to protect them from harm, and fight for them, without hesitation, and we would win, against all odds, because we love them so much.

I may be wrong, but I don't think I am. Just my insight from years experience of observing dogginess. :)
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Missed Post #762 ?

ROFL!

Your points are good points. I'll have to shift around my "internet time budget" a bit to make that happen. First I thought it would be only a short holiday thing, but your ideas are intriguing!
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Heidrun, I changed my mind and decided to put the subject here.

See post #762.

Your input will be appreciated and I have an interested expectency. :)
 

hbeer

Patron with Honors
I'm so sorry for your loss. Marriages certainly can last longer. Yours could too.


Yes of course. But still. After two times it looked strange, after three it begins to look eerie!

What I really want is something so stable and perfect that there is zero friction on the 2D level, we act as one, and all our energy can go into the upper dynamics until we drop dead.

LRH said that an OT alone cannot make it. So 3D is good. But I have seen too many 3D oriented OTs whose 2D needs were not-ised. For me that means that the body ruds are out. Also the theta ruds are out.

Even with my old despair gone, no 2D is still non-optimum.



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No hurries, no worries!

Heidrun, you're very welcome. No need for you to push the river, either. Yes, sometimes a lot happens quickly and it takes some catching up. Sometimes we are out in the middle of the current and moving very swiftly, and other times we are lazing along in the eddies and shores of the backwaters, peaceful and quiet. Sometimes, somebody catches a fish and we all get to eat it! (That's when there's a good cog or a win.)

I think a comfortable rubber raft is in order, for floating, but with oars if you decide you want to paddle out into swifter water, or need to make for shore for a rest by the shady river bank. :)

Just take your time, make yourself feel easy and at home here. :)

It's o.k. if we meander a little off topic now and then, we always can get back on it. :p Sometimes a thread is a little like a dinner conversation around a crowded table, with multiple thoughts being voiced and responded to at once. That happens all the time on various threads, it's only an overt when somebody purposely tries to derail a thread from it's topic, cause hurt feelings or enturbulate. Those people get called trolls and aren't treated with much respect here, and often are booted of the board and banned. It's not been a problem for us here.

I do hope, whenever you get around to posting your story about yourself on the new member introductions thread, that you will also repost the links to your wonderful webpages and the pictures and stories about Paul. I know others will appreciate them as well. :)

Thanks again for sharing them here, it elevated my tone, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that! We have members here who have lost their spouses and/or other family members by being disconnectioned, due to the church's policy of shunning one who leaves the church, so sometimes marriage and family is a bit of a sore subject here for some. There is a lot of need for collective healing here on the subject of 2D. So many former members had their marriages or engagements broken up by Corporate Scientology management.

Also, many of the church members still in have been brainwashed to think that we are all degraded beings on this board, or supressive, (a lie) and it's always good to counteract that thought with something more positive, like a happy love story like yours. I think it's wonderful to have a public example of a very happy marriage. :happydance:

That goes for you, too Carmelo. Many people would love to have a big family like yours. It's nice to get to hear about some of your family activities and traditions.
 
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Networking is powerful!

Hi Zinj!
You guys don't know it, but he met me and Paul briefly at the end of our very first romantic meeting in Texas. Fond memories!

Oh, that's really nice. I like Zingji a lot, we have much in common. We even went to the same college, although not totally at the same time. He just missed me! :p
 
Me Too!

What I really want is something so stable and perfect that there is zero friction on the 2D level, we act as one, and all our energy can go into the upper dynamics until we drop dead."

Wow, good way to put the 2D ideal scene, who doesn't want that? :happydance:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
The whole thing was totally light hearted

Part of the internet is not being able to see the intent behind a post.

I was completely light hearted and friendly. I talked to you as I talk to my friends, straight.

I've never been diplomatic.

Are you going to PM me a prescription for some ludes?

Of course the whole thing was completely light hearted and friendly. Gawd! it would take a lot more than calling me a smart ass to bring me to fisticuffs. I thought by saying my service fac was run out, that would illustrate that I was just kidding around. Having my anger raised was all a mock up and a little effort at mirth.

Please Carmelo continue not being diplomatic and talking straight. That is the Carmelo I have come to know and respect. If I get upset at someone, I will make it very clear otherwise I am just messing around.
Lakey
 
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