OT levels and cancer.

[He-man]

This is what I think is the main attribution to why OT´s die of cancer.

Most scientologists believe that 70% or somewhere around that number of all sickness is psychosomatic. Solution, getting casegain through auditing or courses will make them go away.

So most scientologists I know don´t go to the hospital unless it really REALLY hurts. Alot. My father almost died of pneumonia one time.

Health checkups, same there. Most scientologists I know don´t bother with them. Why go to the doctor when you know that it´s all psychosomatic anyhow?

Well. If you go with a malign tumour and believe it will go away... You´s gonna end up dead sooner or later.

 

[fnx3]

This is what I think is the main attribution to why OT´s die of cancer.

Most scientologists believe that 70% or somewhere around that number of all sickness is psychosomatic. Solution, getting casegain through auditing or courses will make them go away.

So most scientologists I know don´t go to the hospital unless it really REALLY hurts. Alot. My father almost died of pneumonia one time.

Health checkups, same there. Most scientologists I know don´t bother with them. Why go to the doctor when you know that it´s all psychosomatic anyhow?

Well. If you go with a malign tumour and believe it will go away... You´s gonna end up sooner or later.

Ditto!

 

[RogerB]

A Valid Point

This is what I think is the main attribution to why OT´s die of cancer.

Most scientologists believe that 70% or somewhere around that number of all sickness is psychosomatic. Solution, getting casegain through auditing or courses will make them go away.

So most scientologists I know don´t go to the hospital unless it really REALLY hurts. Alot. My father almost died of pneumonia one time.

Health checkups, same there. Most scientologists I know don´t bother with them. Why go to the doctor when you know that it´s all psychosomatic anyhow?

Well. If you go with a malign tumour and believe it will go away... You´s gonna end up dead sooner or later.

A valid point He Man.

One of the things I have been "cute" about is to take myself to my trusted medicos to have things checked out so I can rule out and/or know for certain what is a physical body scenario versus case manifestation.

I personally have found it important, and useful, to be certain as to which is which. The added bonus is knowing I have a totally healthy body that is good for at least another 120 years!

We had a "mini stroke" scare 18 months ago. All the MRI's and etc., etc., revealed nothing physical, the brain and all blood vessels in perfect order.

It turned out to be a case issue along with a residual "somatic" from an explosion that occurred in that region of my "head" doing own goals listing in 1962 (Yep, the old gone-wrong-case shit can hang up that long!)

So, your point of treating the body as a body with proper physical universe handling is quite valid He Man. The only thing I'd add is the necessity of determining which is what

RogerB

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Progress is ongoing...

I have read a little about the Enochian angels and John Dee. One wonders what these angels are doing these days. Are they still being called upon as in Victorian times. So much care was used to make sure one did not get a supernal from the dark side when invoking or evoking. All kinds of protection and prayer were necessary. So why were the same doors being accessed by both. I would think this could be a route to instability unless one was a Rock of Gibralter. I think most Victorian sensitives were precariously fragile and only the strong ones forged their name into history. Sometimes its better to let sleeping dogs lie.

Was Meggido on the Dead Sea the place where Enochian angels held their Super Bowl?

This universe is ancient.
Some forces have had dominion over others for a long time. There is a dwindling heirarchy from power to deadness. When one starts to wake up the layered densities that make up our skulls for instance, one realizes how alive everything is. The solid things in our universe are often times made up of compacted or forcibly compressed theta. Messing with these factors without the ability to destimulate what is stirred up after contacting them is playing with fire. You do get crossed flows of energy and attention going. It almost seems by the grace of God that the most solid masses quickly blow out the biggest when they start to unravel. Therein lies the biggest reward. Gratitude is palpable.
When I was receiving processing I kept getting repair lists. I kept having the sense that I was being sloughed over in favor or auditing something else. You can't process over by-passed charge. It just makes things worse.

I love what Roger B said about this related subject.

So do I love what RogerB, you, Panda, and many others post here and elsewhere! And IMO Francis Bacon would approve! :wink2:

From: Preface to the Instauratio Magna

Francis Bacon


"...That the state of knowledge is not prosperous nor greatly advancing; and that a way must be opened for the human understanding entirely different from any hitherto known, and other helps provided, in order that the mind may exercise over the nature of things the authority which properly belongs to it.


...snip...(google it and read it all!)


But it is the empty things that are vast: things solid are most contracted and lie in little room. and now I have only one favour more to ask (else injustice to me may perhaps imperil the business itself)—that men will consider well how far, upon that which I must needs assert (if I am to be consistent with myself), they are entitled to judge and decide upon these doctrines of mine; inasmuch as all that premature human reasoning which anticipates inquiry, and is abstracted from the facts rashly and sooner than is fit, is by me rejected (so far as the inquisition of nature is concerned), as a thing uncertain, confused, and ill built up; and I cannot be fairly asked to abide by the decision of a tribunal which is itself on its trial."

 

[RogerB]

I have read a little about the Enochian angels and John Dee. One wonders what these angels are doing these days. Are they still being called upon as in Victorian times. So much care was used to make sure one did not get a supernal from the dark side when invoking or evoking. All kinds of protection and prayer were necessary. So why were the same doors being accessed by both. I would think this could be a route to instability unless one was a Rock of Gibralter. I think most Victorian sensitives were precariously fragile and only the strong ones forged their name into history. Sometimes its better to let sleeping dogs lie.

Was Meggido on the Dead Sea the place where Enochian angels held their Super Bowl?

This universe is ancient.
Some forces have had dominion over others for a long time. There is a dwindling heirarchy from power to deadness. When one starts to wake up the layered densities that make up our skulls for instance, one realizes how alive everything is. The solid things in our universe are often times made up of compacted or forcibly compressed theta. Messing with these factors without the ability to destimulate what is stirred up after contacting them is playing with fire. You do get crossed flows of energy and attention going. It almost seems by the grace of God that the most solid masses quickly blow out the biggest when they start to unravel. Therein lies the biggest reward. Gratitude is palpable.
When I was receiving processing I kept getting repair lists. I kept having the sense that I was being sloughed over in favor or auditing something else. You can't process over by-passed charge. It just makes things worse.

I love what Roger B said about this related subject.

Hats,
What you write here (that I colored blue above) reminds me of the biggest processing goof of all that is being committed in the church.

The by-pass of the Being itself . . . the ignoring of the person and what he/she actually wants and the telling to the Being "what will be." You hear this time and time again in the church in statements like "giving him/her a 'severe reality adjustment'," etc., and the telling the client what will be run on his/her case instead of finding out and addressing what the client wants!

If you want BPC, and the ruination of people, by-pass the Being himself!

R

 

[smartone]

Maybe the ability of being "cause over cancer" exists in a level "not yet released". You just need to fork over another $400.000 first to do your set-up's for that level.

And then it'll still be a maybe

 

[billheichert]

I know of at least 11 scio's that have died of cancer. All but 3 were brain cancer and I think 9 of them were ot7 or ot 8. the other 2 were long time cult members but not on 7 yet.

I am 49 years old and I can't think of anyone else who i know who has died of cancer....just another glaring outpoint of ron's con.

I think it has a lot to do withthe meter and of course withthe practice of scientology in general. It does not free people. It traps them, enslaves them and hurts in so many ways.

 

[thetanic]

I don't think it has anything to do with the meter, just the overall lack of care. FWIW, I know several never-Scns who've died of cancer and a couple who have died of brain cancer.

 

[pollywannacracker]

I don't think it has anything to do with the meter, just the overall lack of care. FWIW, I know several never-Scns who've died of cancer and a couple who have died of brain cancer.

I agree. My viewpoint is that from what I have personally observed is that there isn't necessarily a clearcut ratio of cancer deaths between Scns and Non-Scns. Both sets didn't get proper medical attention when they should have. Thus symptoms of little magnitude turn into symptoms of fatal magnitude when the whole thing could have been diagnosed and treated in early stages.

Might not have cured these folks, but certainly could have prolonged their lives.

-PWC

 

[AngeloV]

I agree. My viewpoint is that from what I have personally observed is that there isn't necessarily a clearcut ratio of cancer deaths between Scns and Non-Scns. Both sets didn't get proper medical attention when they should have. Thus symptoms of little magnitude turn into symptoms of fatal magnitude when the whole thing could have been diagnosed and treated in early stages.
Might not have cured these folks, but certainly could have prolonged their lives.

-PWC

(my emphasis). I agree wholeheartedly. The total lack of basic medical care/checkups for all staff is a tragedy created by the mind of a madman.

 

[Holly]

Two points on this topic:

1) Recent developments in the field of epigenetics posits (rather interestingly) that predisposition to diseases is likely based on how your grandparents fared during the development of their sperm and ova. Whether they experienced feast or famine, and what they ate, and not just what you eat or what toxins you are exposed to. You can learn about it here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3411/02.html

(the full program was longer and had more information from a fascinating study concerning feast/famine years somewhere in Iceland I think it was, where incredible weather and crop records were meticulously kept over past generations, as well as incidence of later obesity and disease.)

2) My second point is to repeat what PWC said (and others who may have as well) that scientology's disdain for medical care and validity of same kept many people from obtaining treatment early enough.

Having said that, I did find it eerie that of the sever hundred people I knew in only a five year span of time while at flag, 5 or 6 died of brain tumors. That's an inordinate percentage of the population for that specific a disease, I believe.

 

[thetanic]

Having said that, I did find it eerie that of the sever hundred people I knew in only a five year span of time while at flag, 5 or 6 died of brain tumors. That's an inordinate percentage of the population for that specific a disease, I believe.

That does seem quite high.

 

[Dulloldfart]

I have gathered from reading this board that it seems an inordinate percent of people who get to the top levels of the cult bridge wind up dying of cancer.

I just read an interesting comment from an (ex-) OT VIII with the nick "Been There" on this blog post:
http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/the-last-roundup/

The comment is about halfway down the page. You can find it on the page with Cntl-F and "been there". I won't quote it, but briefly the idea is that OT8s got hauled into Qual/Ethics and given a very hard (and expensive) time if they "got sick." So to avoid that one would put on a brave face and avoid giving the impression that all was not hunky-dory, including not seeking medical intervention when it might be first indicated. The result being too little too late.

I don't recall seeing this factor mentioned before.

Paul

 

[thefiredragon]

If I were to compare apples to apples the same amounts, people I know who have done OT levels to people I know who aren't even Scientologist, more of the people I know who are not Scientologist have had cancer. That's just the people I know. I'm not sure how it works out for everyone else.

Me too. . I think,cancer comes from jank food we are eating and I know that many
people in Sea Org eat junk food. I don't think it's related to OT levels.

 

[Ted]

I just read an interesting comment from an (ex-) OT VIII with the nick "Been There" on this blog post:
http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/the-last-roundup/

The comment is about halfway down the page. You can find it on the page with Cntl-F and "been there". I won't quote it, but briefly the idea is that OT8s got hauled into Qual/Ethics and given a very hard (and expensive) time if they "got sick." So to avoid that one would put on a brave face and avoid giving the impression that all was not hunky-dory, including not seeking medical intervention when it might be first indicated. The result being too little too late.

I don't recall seeing this factor mentioned before.

Paul

I do not recall this ever being mentioned, however, I do mention, frequently, that (pre-) OT's are auditing while PTS to the org and management.

As we know, auditing a PTS on anything but the specific processes intended to resolve the PTS situation will likely leave the PTS in worse shape. As Hubbard has noted, the suppression can even kill a pc.

Little do we ever suspect that suppression will come from people or organizations whose stated purposes are to help a person.

PTS's have unresolved problems. You have mentioned a few such problems above. Feral recently mentioned a bunch of hurdles that had to be overcome just routing into Flag for services. From all that I have read from OT-7's commenting on the level and associated admin, it appears the OT-7 does not resolve so much in a person's life and it does much to place a pre-ot in a PTS situation. Flag takes the enforced presence of the pre-ot with 6 month sec checks as an opportunity to heap more bullshit on a person.

A being doesn't have any problems of its own. In order to have a problem there has to be at least one untruth. Wrong source is one such untruth. The more untruths (lies) the more persistent and difficult the problem. Accepting problems imposed by management leads to no solutions or solutions that become the new problem.

To be "OT" a being has to be able to recognize sources. Looking at the cognitive dissonances and duplicities of scientology is a good place to start.

 

[RogerB]

I do not recall this ever being mentioned, however, I do mention, frequently, that (pre-) OT's are auditing while PTS to the org and management.

As we know, auditing a PTS on anything but the specific processes intended to resolve the PTS situation will likely leave the PTS in worse shape. As Hubbard has noted, the suppression can even kill a pc.

Little do we ever suspect that suppression will come from people or organizations whose stated purposes are to help a person.

PTS's have unresolved problems. You have mentioned a few such problems above. Feral recently mentioned a bunch of hurdles that had to be overcome just routing into Flag for services. From all that I have read from OT-7's commenting on the level and associated admin, it appears the OT-7 does not resolve so much in a person's life and it does much to place a pre-ot in a PTS situation. Flag takes the enforced presence of the pre-ot with 6 month sec checks as an opportunity to heap more bullshit on a person.

A being doesn't have any problems of its own. In order to have a problem there has to be at least one untruth. Wrong source is one such untruth. The more untruths (lies) the more persistent and difficult the problem. Accepting problems imposed by management leads to no solutions or solutions that become the new problem.

To be "OT" a being has to be able to recognize sources. Looking at the cognitive dissonances and duplicities of scientology is a good place to start.

Nice post, Ted!

The point I highlight in you post above also is/represents wrong items, wrong indications/ wrong whys, et al, and even Hubbard wrote that wrong indications are behind "psychosis" and introspection.

Severe introspection is a nasty way to jam stuck attention flows (life-force) in onto the brain area . . . and I do mean the body part.

AS I've noted elsewhere, it has been my observation that that stuck, fixed attention on a body part or system is routinely associated with cancer, particularly when the reason for the stuck attention flow is associated with a threat to one's well being or survival.

Information on the response of body cells to perceived threats is very interesting in this respect. See www.brucelipton.com

Rog

 

[RogerB]

Duplicate deleted . . . the system went blank on the first attempt

I do not recall this ever being mentioned, however, I do mention, frequently, that (pre-) OT's are auditing while PTS to the org and management.

As we know, auditing a PTS on anything but the specific processes intended to resolve the PTS situation will likely leave the PTS in worse shape. As Hubbard has noted, the suppression can even kill a pc.

Little do we ever suspect that suppression will come from people or organizations whose stated purposes are to help a person.

PTS's have unresolved problems. You have mentioned a few such problems above. Feral recently mentioned a bunch of hurdles that had to be overcome just routing into Flag for services. From all that I have read from OT-7's commenting on the level and associated admin, it appears the OT-7 does not resolve so much in a person's life and it does much to place a pre-ot in a PTS situation. Flag takes the enforced presence of the pre-ot with 6 month sec checks as an opportunity to heap more bullshit on a person.

A being doesn't have any problems of its own. In order to have a problem there has to be at least one untruth. Wrong source is one such untruth. The more untruths (lies) the more persistent and difficult the problem. Accepting problems imposed by management leads to no solutions or solutions that become the new problem.

To be "OT" a being has to be able to recognize sources. Looking at the cognitive dissonances and duplicities of scientology is a good place to start.

Nice post, Ted!

The point I highlight in you post above also is/represents wrong items, wrong indications/ wrong whys, et al, and even Hubbard wrote that wrong indications are behind "psychosis" and introspection.

Severe introspection is a nasty way to jam stuck attention flows (life-force) in onto the brain area . . . and I do mean the body part.

AS I've noted elsewhere, it has been my observation that stuck, fixed attention on a body part or system is routinely associated with cancer, particularly when the reason for the stuck attention flow is associated with a threat to one's well being or survival.

Information on the response of body cells to perceived threats is very interesting in this respect. See www.brucelipton.com

Rog