(partly) concerning the Ls

[Tanstaafl]

I'm particularly interested in levels of being/awareness.

The part of me I am most aware of is the part that operates through the analytical mind. I know there is more to me than that.

I was absent-mindedly smoking a ciggie the other day and burst out laughing and then started nodding and saying "Uh-huh, uh-huh". I had a cognition about something, I've no idea what, I didn't even know I was thinking about anything at the time.

A few months ago I was driving along the motorway about 15-20 mph over the limit. Suddenly I see a copper leaning over the bonnet of his car pointing a radar gun straight at me. The moment I passed him I burst out laughing and knew with certainty that I wasn't going to get a ticket. I have no idea how I knew. Anyway, I didn't get a ticket.

Whenever I feel really bad I can just ask myself how I really feel and the answer is always "I'm fine, no problems" and I sense an inner calmness even if the outer misemotion isn't dimiinshed in any way.

What the hell is this all about (assuming I'm not crazy)?

I've spoken to a couple of people who've done their Ls. They both reported blowing charge even though they were unaware of it's exact nature. They spoke of laughing and crying in session but not knowing what it was all about.
I'm working on the assumption that somehow the self-protecting mechanism of the mind is being bypassed. Does anyone know anything about the Class XII TRs? How might this be done?

Any knowledge, insight or speculation is welcome.

Cheers

tanstaafl

 

[Ralph Hilton]

There is something about the L's that keys people out. LRH on several occasions took people who caved in after L10 and ran R3R on them to get them to confront the mass. If people have the things that you are talking about going on then to me it looks like they are having the postulates stripped off their cases without confronting masses which is a major fault of the L's.
The Class 12 TRs are something I am not really impressed by at the moment having seen them in action here.

 

[Div6]

I'm not sure this is "l's" related. Not knowing your case level, I will just say that on I - III and higher you learn what is "your" case and what is "others". Others may have issues in your space, but you can be doing fine. Correct ownership of charge needs to be established for it to as-is.

Now, concerning the L's, L-11 tends to act the way you describe. One friend of mine who recieved his L's in the 70's described it this way.....it's like watching a cartoon where a fuse is lit off to your left, and then another fuse is lit off to your right, and then all of a sudden you realize that YOU are sitting on the powder keg.....and when it blows, it blows sky high....

As far as the TR's are concerned...its just direct Tone 40. There is more going on on the auditor side than it seems though.

 

[Veda]

It would be interesting to see what the results (effects?) of the "Ls" would be, if done on individuals free from the massive amount of hype that surrounds them - hype that psychologically conditions anyone receiving one of more "Ls," both inside the Scientology cult, and in the Standard Tech Freezone.

 

[Ralph Hilton]

Div6,
Were you repying to Tanstaafl or me?

 

[Dulloldfart]

I'm not sure this is "l's" related. Not knowing your case level, I will just say that on I - III and higher you learn what is "your" case and what is "others". Others may have issues in your space, but you can be doing fine. Correct ownership of charge needs to be established for it to as-is.

Interesting point re "correct ownership". I am well aware of standard Scn dogma on the subject, but let's look at something else for a moment: "Multiple viewpoint" processing.

This is where you're addressing a topic with some process or other, and you've taken as much charge as you think you can off the topic, and then you look at it from another's viewpoint and blow more charge off. It is a very workable tech in some instances--I use it as part of my arsenal in Paul's Robot Auditor: Heavy-Duty.

But whose charge is blowing here? Is it the pc's own charge, which he built up as a reflection of that other person's charge (see Scn 8-80; O-M sequence etc.)? Is it really the other person's charge that is being discharged on a via, as a surrogate, by the pc? Is it some BT or cluster, maybe picked up from the other person at the time of the incident? Some other kind of theta splinter from the other person?

Does it matter? In reality, not just in theory.

For definition purposes here, "surrogate auditing" is where you act as pc for another, preferably with their prior consent. It is not common in Scn (in fact, I have never heard of anyone deliberately doing this with auditing apart from whatever I have experimented with), but is familiar in other therapy fields. Touch for Health, for instance, where one might perform a meridian "balancing" on a baby too young to execute normal commands by doing the balance on the mother, with the mother's attention fully on the baby. Supposedly it works in TFH. My own surrogate auditing experiments have been inconclusive.

Paul

 

[Div6]

Div6,
Were you repying to Tanstaafl or me?

I was replying to Mr.T.

 

[Div6]

It would be interesting to see what the results (effects?) of the "Ls" would be, if done on individuals free from the massive amount of hype that surrounds them - hype that psychologically conditions anyone receiving one of more "Ls," both inside the Scientology cult, and in the Standard Tech Freezone.

Yeah...they would have to be set up for them. Take some green pcs, audit them through the grades and then CS them onto L's....be interesting. Like taking some Microsft developers out of the Redmond Reality distortion field, and asking them to make a real operating system...

 

[Div6]

Interesting point re "correct ownership". I am well aware of standard Scn dogma on the subject, but let's look at something else for a moment: "Multiple viewpoint" processing.

This is where you're addressing a topic with some process or other, and you've taken as much charge as you think you can off the topic, and then you look at it from another's viewpoint and blow more charge off. It is a very workable tech in some instances--I use it as part of my arsenal in Paul's Robot Auditor: Heavy-Duty.

But whose charge is blowing here? Is it the pc's own charge, which he built up as a reflection of that other person's charge (see Scn 8-80; O-M sequence etc.)? Is it really the other person's charge that is being discharged on a via, as a surrogate, by the pc? Is it some BT or cluster, maybe picked up from the other person at the time of the incident? Some other kind of theta splinter from the other person?

Does it matter? In reality, not just in theory.

For definition purposes here, "surrogate auditing" is where you act as pc for another, preferably with their prior consent. It is not common in Scn (in fact, I have never heard of anyone deliberately doing this with auditing apart from whatever I have experimented with), but is familiar in other therapy fields. Touch for Health, for instance, where one might perform a meridian "balancing" on a baby too young to execute normal commands by doing the balance on the mother, with the mother's attention fully on the baby. Supposedly it works in TFH. My own surrogate auditing experiments have been inconclusive.

Paul

Rowland Barkley has a set of procedures he put together he calls L13. A couple of the processes are multiple viewpoint running type processes. I knew a couple of Class VII's that audited animals as a surrogate. They were both OT IIIX. One would "be the auditor" and the other would hold the cans, and the animal, and look at the animals pictures and itsa them back.....

 

[Ralph Hilton]

I was replying to Mr.T.

ok. yes, L-11 does crazy things. Its the only time I've seen the TA go really crazy. Once I saw the TA go from 5+ to around 2.0 in 10 secs or so and have seen 2 division blowdowns in seconds on other occasions.

 

[Tanstaafl]

Something else crossed my mind in relation to this thread. It relates to exteriorisation.

Incidentally, wtf is with the e-meter book definition re position of the thetan?
The analogy of a splinter in a thumb - the splinter being the body and the thumb the thetan. It doesn't sit well with the myriad of other mentions of exteriorisation.

Anyway, back to my thought: when you run Grand Tour or Change of Space on a preclear (which I have) they ostensibly position themselves at vast distances from the body. In the PDC, LRH talks of the beams a thetan slaps on the brain - pressors to send instructions, tractors to get feedback/sensation IIRC.

While in session, there is clearly a degree of attention still with the body, otherwise the process could not be run. It seems highly unlikely to me that these beams are being stretched across these vast distances or mocked-up anew with each change in location of the thetan. The alternative would be that there is one "part" of the thetan remaining with the body.

Along similar lines: Mrs T is a keen gardener. One time I was discussing with her the aberrative effects of incomplete cycles of action. She then spotted several places in our garden where she had left attention units. Can these attention units effectively be mini thetans in their own rights? How would they appear to another thetan who tried to communicate with them, unaware that they had "an owner"?

Cheers

tanstaafl

 

[Ralph Hilton]

One of the easiest ways to exteriorize a thetan is expanding their space and beingness with spacation drills.
Exterior at a distance I feel the connection to the body more like a resonance. It doesn't have any communication lag. I can only speculate on its nature.
It does seem that a theta being can endow even inanimate objects with life. My chilli plants seem to thrive better when admired (I don't put them on the meter
This one is native to Morocco but was growing fine outside earlier this year in the alps:

The attention units, for me, have a feeling of aliveness. There is sort of aesthetic glow about plants that people have cared for and are proud of.

 

[Tanstaafl]

One of the easiest ways to exteriorize a thetan is expanding their space and beingness with spacation drills.
Exterior at a distance I feel the connection to the body more like a resonance. It doesn't have any communication lag. I can only speculate on its nature.
It does seem that a theta being can endow even inanimate objects with life. My chilli plants seem to thrive better when admired (I don't put them on the meter
This one is native to Morocco but was growing fine outside earlier this year in the alps:

The attention units, for me, have a feeling of aliveness. There is sort of aesthetic glow about plants that people have cared for and are proud of.

Thanks for that Ralph.

Mrs T certainly has green fingers. I don't think she's particularly aware of what she's doing but I'm sure it has to do with admiration, both of what the plant is and what it will become.

 

[OHTEEATE]

L's

I did all the three L Rundowns with Linda Sydejko at Flag in 1985. It's been awhile, but I did get something out of them. You can't go to basic and blowdown/F/N on that many whole track overts and not get some kind of gain out of it. I had major perception changes mid- L-10. I saw( and I'm just telling you what happened) the skeleton inside my auditors body, I saw people walking by in the hall outside, through walls, and after session I saw spectrums of light outside you cannot see with the body eyes. Please, please don't waste finger motion on your keyboard telling me I imagined anything! I know the difference between perception and imagination. Now, was it worth $200,000? Depends on how you look at it, and whether or not you have the cash. At that time, I had the cash, so why the hell not? Right now, I'd say PASS. If you want to know what it is so bad, go to OT 8 first, then do the L's after the preOT case is finished. It will cost you less that way. Not that any of you are going to Flag to do L's anytime soon. But maybe Pierre will fix you up. I'd still say finish 7 first. That is the only Registrar advice I can give anyone.

 

[Tanstaafl]

I did all the three L Rundowns with Linda Sydejko at Flag in 1985. It's been awhile, but I did get something out of them. You can't go to basic and blowdown/F/N on that many whole track overts and not get some kind of gain out of it. I had major perception changes mid- L-10. I saw( and I'm just telling you what happened) the skeleton inside my auditors body, I saw people walking by in the hall outside, through walls, and after session I saw spectrums of light outside you cannot see with the body eyes. Please, please don't waste finger motion on your keyboard telling me I imagined anything! I know the difference between perception and imagination. Now, was it worth $200,000? Depends on how you look at it, and whether or not you have the cash. At that time, I had the cash, so why the hell not? Right now, I'd say PASS. If you want to know what it is so bad, go to OT 8 first, then do the L's after the preOT case is finished. It will cost you less that way. Not that any of you are going to Flag to do L's anytime soon. But maybe Pierre will fix you up. I'd still say finish 7 first. That is the only Registrar advice I can give anyone.

Thanks for that Mike.

Did you notice anything different about Class XII auditing, especially TRs?

Was it like the normal method of the preclear looking at the bank, finding the answer and giving it to the auditor?

Cheers

tanstaafl

 

[Veda]

I did all the three L Rundowns with Linda Sydejko at Flag in 1985. It's been awhile, but I did get something out of them. You can't go to basic and blowdown/F/N on that many whole track overts and not get some kind of gain out of it. I had major perception changes mid- L-10. I saw( and I'm just telling you what happened) the skeleton inside my auditors body, I saw people walking by in the hall outside, through walls, and after session I saw spectrums of light outside you cannot see with the body eyes. Please, please don't waste finger motion on your keyboard telling me I imagined anything! I know the difference between perception and imagination. Now, was it worth $200,000? Depends on how you look at it, and whether or not you have the cash. At that time, I had the cash, so why the hell not? Right now, I'd say PASS. If you want to know what it is so bad, go to OT 8 first, then do the L's after the preOT case is finished. It will cost you less that way. Not that any of you are going to Flag to do L's anytime soon. But maybe Pierre will fix you up. I'd still say finish 7 first. That is the only Registrar advice I can give anyone.

Life is full of strange and interesting experiences, so I'm not doubting you, just noting what you describe does not so much resemble enlightenment, as it does an amusement part thrill ride.

 

[Alan]

I did all the three L Rundowns with Linda Sydejko at Flag in 1985. It's been awhile, but I did get something out of them.

You can't go to basic and blowdown/F/N on that many whole track overts and not get some kind of gain out of it.

You just identified the source of the SP Power Identity = The beingness or Identity that has to commit continuous overts to protect its creation!

Missing that can lead to all sorts of long term problems!

I had major perception changes mid- L-10. I saw( and I'm just telling you what happened) the skeleton inside my auditors body, I saw people walking by in the hall outside, through walls, and after session I saw spectrums of light outside you cannot see with the body eyes. Please, please don't waste finger motion on your keyboard telling me I imagined anything! I know the difference between perception and imagination. Now, was it worth $200,000? Depends on how you look at it, and whether or not you have the cash. At that time, I had the cash, so why the hell not? Right now, I'd say PASS. If you want to know what it is so bad, go to OT 8 first, then do the L's after the preOT case is finished. It will cost you less that way. Not that any of you are going to Flag to do L's anytime soon. But maybe Pierre will fix you up. I'd still say finish 7 first. That is the only Registrar advice I can give anyone.

Mike these are doingnessess - the question is: "By regaining these abilities what Beingness or Identity did they create you as?"

Also - within a few days or weeks of you getting your L's; Did anything start to unmock?

Also were there any out of control activities? ie: power tripping; domination; sex; drugs; drinking or gambling?

Also how was your arrogance quotient?

Alan

 

[Alanzo]

Mike these are doingnessess - the question is: "By regaining these abilities what Beingness or Identity did they create you as?"

Also - within a few days or weeks of you getting your L's; Did anything start to unmock?

Also were there any out of control activities? ie: power tripping; domination; sex; drugs; drinking or gambling?

Also how was your arrogance quotient?

Alan

Ah!

The arrogance quotient.

The bread and butter, meat and potatoes, morning cup o' joe of my daily life.

How refreshing!

 

[Alan]

For me the L's were possibly the most destructive processes I ever experienced.

Though not so much the L's themselves - but what they left unflat!

Alan

 

[Alan]

Ah!

The arrogance quotient.

The bread and butter, meat and potatoes, morning cup o' joe of my daily life.

How refreshing!