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Terril park

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In his later years, Alan Walter came to describe his time playing professional football (soccer) as "chasing bags of wind in my underwear." In this way he downplayed any activity in which a person might involve themselves that was not training or processing towards the Green and Gold Zones.

While I can see his point, I also object.

On a.c.t. archives you will find discussions with Alan about being "in the zone." This zone reference was primarily sports related. So I rhetorically ask, "Was this being in the zone, a very desirable state, or was it chasing bags of wind in one's underwear? Or rolling in the mud chasing a ball that won't roll straight? Or running back and forth on grandma's polished wooden floor while putting her 1920 bathing suit on display? Or...?"

Lakey, I think you are right: A life without purpose isn't much of a life. And if the purpose of chasing those bags of wind is to destroy, to dominate, to win at any cost, that purpose is worthy of being questioned.

Yet when I look over my time in sports, there was a lot more going on than slapping a ball of string covered in leather with a stick. There was teamwork, there was being in the zone, and out of the zone. There was truth and honor on display. And much more. I only have to access any of my moments in the game to see what was going on knowingly and even unknowingly.

"The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor." -- Vince Lombardi

This brings to mind something I did while on the OEC/FEBC. I had a
probably checksheet task of doing something, and I ended up doing a survey
for the local clearwater mission.

Can't recall the questions exactly but one must have been something
like what do you most enjoy, or whats most important to you.

Around 80% said sports. Hope this datum can at last be of use to someone. :)
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ted. what a great post you have made in #3134. Great words of wisdom and a knowledgeable and keen slant on how a man's life should be organized and lived.

If have two questions/comments to raise: With all the advancement in nutrition and health care since Biblical times, I think the boundaries of the dates might need some adjustement. Today's 50 year old man may be at an equivalent phase to a 40 year old man in biblical times and today, 70 might correspond to men 60 in biblical times. That is just a minor fine tuning of the dates and is does not effect any of the content which you wrote.

The other comment, and this is more basic - These writings seem to apply only to men and not women. Is there a similar pattern of conduct with similar phases of life for women? Despite what our Universities teach, male and female sexuality have enormous differences.

A woman is at her physical peak in her youth as well but rather than physical strength and willingness to fight, a woman must use her her beauty and her charms in place of brute physical strength. BTW, I believe that physical strength in women is greatly underestimated. I have been involved in EPF activities on Sea Org ships where women were asked to do heavy lifting along side the guys, with no allowances made for being a woman or being of smaller stature, and the women were able to match the mens' performances every time.

As far as fighting, women do that as well. They can have extremely strong Ethics presence in the Sea Org, for example. No one would want to get Yvonne Jentzch or someone like that angry with them. I also hear that Jane Kember could be viscious if someone crossed her. Ditto for Captain Joan Robertson on the Apollo.

So if you could, Ted, please say a few words about where the ladies fit in this sytemized view of life.

I am happy to hear that your writings originate from Hebrew sources, the tribe which I am affiliated with genetically and to some degree spiritually. The Hebrews are certainly the authorites to write such things because they are the longest continuously surving group on the planet going back many thousands of years. Never has a people been the object of so many viscious and lethal attacks to wipe them out. One would have thought that after the Nazi's, those types of attacks would have ceased but they have not and are currently being renewed, as strong as pre WWII.

As to the comments about the phases of manhood, I am in full agreement with every word you wrote and or cited. It is so well written that it is ridiculous to try and add something or try and find a nuance to improve it. The writings are perfect as they stand, at least for me. Probably there will be detractors, lets wait and see.
Lakey


First of all, most of my post was a copy/paste. I give credit where credit is due with the url.

Next, Moses was way before my time. I have no direct observation of him or even any secondhand reporting of his activities. What little I know has been watered down and shifted in exactness through verbal relay and the vagaries of translations from culture to culture and language to language.

It has been said that Moses was 900 years old. Man, that's old! Maybe he was just closer to 120, a figure that some people say is reasonable for a human body. I do know that life was rough in those days. That's not conducive to a long life. But when hasn't it been rough? My grandmother is going on 103. Believe me, that's old. When a person is going, "WTF am I doing here? All my friends are gone, half of my children are gone..." That's old.

Next, the author of the copy/paste article, I believe, also wrote a book called, The Seasons of a Woman's Life. I am very much not a woman and I would not presume to piss off any of the ladies by projecting my stupid maleness in answering your question. Perhaps the ladies here would care to advance a comment or two.

I am not a religious person. Spiritual, yes, religious, no. I will find what I am looking for in a variety of sources.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you. I’ve tried a friend's laptop…it just doesn’t “feel” right in the garden…like it doesn’t belong there and I don’t belong there with it…crazy, I know, but I’m comfortable in my craziness…most of the time.:confused2:

I wasn’t sure if “information packets” would make sense to others…very cool re: your experience with non-verbal thought. It is, in part, what my book is about. To me, it is more—and less—than “silence” or “stillness”. The best analogy I’ve come up with, so far, is a compass. Par of the analogy is as follows:

A compass has no purpose without the center point and a sweep arm pivot. “Heart” is the center point and “Soul” is a sweep arm pivot. Now, some may argue that it’s the other way around…they may be “right”…I don’t know…language and semantics is a real bitch. But, to me, “Soul” is a construct, “Heart” just is…and isn’t. True “Heart” is always there, nowhere, can never be “touched”, yet "touches" all and without a “Soul”, "Heart" has no "context" yet is "All" that is and is not...and, quoting that timeless Great Sage, Elmer Fudd, "And, That's All, Folks!":yes:

I realize that I have not said anything new but, for me, it is experientially “new” and am compelled to “drift” in that particular “information packet” and attempt to describe it in, “Heart Is Where The Home Is”. (Copyrighted Working Title):yes:

Face:)


I see what you are saying. :)

Having a moment of enlightenment has never been difficult for many people. The difficulty comes in trying to 'splain WTF just happened. Some of us like to share so explanation is a must. Some of us try to bring the moment of enlightenment to market. Again, explanation is a must.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ted,

Personally, I went through more sexual energy between 30-35 than I ever had before, and I think that's common for women still fertile and childless at that age. The body's telling one, "hurry up, already!"
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ted,

Personally, I went through more sexual energy between 30-35 than I ever had before, and I think that's common for women still fertile and childless at that age. The body's telling one, "hurry up, already!"


That might be common whether childless or not. I speak as a husband with lovely wife and four young 'uns.

Biologically speaking, it makes more sense for older women to have younger men. Probably true socially, too, as us young guys can be rather insensitive and ignorant as warriors. We can learn a lot from an older woman.

Economically and biologically speaking, it makes sense for older men who have less sex drive and more money to have younger women.

Viagra and Cialis change some of that.

Sounds like a couple of luxury cars, doesn't it?

Viagra! Luxury, power, comfort! What more could you want?

Slip into the new Cialis; it's built for driving.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I see what you are saying. :)

Having a moment of enlightenment has never been difficult for many people. The difficulty comes in trying to 'splain WTF just happened. Some of us like to share so explanation is a must. Some of us try to bring the moment of enlightenment to market. Again, explanation is a must.

Ted,

Thank You. Honestly, honestly you probably see what I am trying to say much better than I do.

Most everyone has moments of enlightenment every day. Each of those “moments” is “their moment” and ultimately are of far more help and value to them than anything someone else “knows”, can tell them, sell them or say. :yes:

My whole life has been, and is, about sharing…you don’t know me, and I don’t know you, so neither of us knows the content of each others heart and our deeds in this world…the only “deeds” I know of you are through this board…to paraphrase Sally Field, “I like you, I really do like you.”:yes:

You have shared much with me of true and helpful value and, for that, I am grateful and thank you. I am hopeful that I may have shared something that was helpful and of value to you.

I am writing a book not because I desire to, but because others have asked me to, offered and are helping me to do so. Others that have stood by me, steadfastly and unflinchingly, through travails that I have not—and will never—tell of on this board and thread. Others that do not control me, but watched out for me, protected me and helped me when I was helpless, incoherent and beyond hope. Others, as contributors and collaborators to the book—which has been in progress long before I ever came to ESMB.

Legally, I am debarred from entering into a contract without approval of my attorney; I may not serve on a jury; have trustees that manage my accounts. I have enough to take care of me, comfortably, for the rest of this life. I don’t need to, nor intend to, market anything…I’ve corrupted myself mucho over the years and am not capable, nor have the stomach, to do so anymore.

I may have stepped “out of my league” here on ESBM and this thread, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the time spent with you and all yall. I am just fumbling my way on my pathway to “No Path”.

I think I may have inadvertently derailed my own “personal thread” by bringing up my TBI/ABI. I must get back to “Adios Apollo”…El Ron is about to “Jump Ship”!:happydance:

Face:)
 
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Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ted,

Thank You. Honestly, honestly you probably see what I am trying to say much better than I do.

Everyone has moments of enlightenment every day. Each of those “moments” is “their moment” and ultimately are of far more help and value to them than anything someone else “knows”, can tell them, sell them or say. :yes:

My whole life has been, and is, about sharing…you don’t know me, and I don’t know you, so neither of us knows the content of each others heart and our deeds in this world…the only “deeds” I know of you are through this board…to paraphrase Sally Field, “I like you, I really do like you.”:yes:

You have shared much with me of true and helpful value and, for that, I am grateful and thank you. I am hopeful that I may have shared something that was helpful and of value to you.

I am writing a book not because I desire to, but because others have asked me to, offered and are helping me to do so. Others that have stood by me, steadfastly and unflinchingly, through travails that I have not—and will never—tell of on this board and thread. Others that do not control me, but watched out for me, protected me and helped me when I was helpless, incoherent and beyond hope. Others, as contributors and collaborators to the book—which has been in progress long before I ever came to ESMB.

Legally, I am debarred from entering into a contract without approval of my attorney; I may not serve on a jury; have trustees that manage my accounts. I have enough to take care of me, comfortably, for the rest of this life. I don’t need to, nor intend to, market anything…I’ve corrupted myself mucho over the years and am not capable, nor have the stomach, to do so anymore.

I may have stepped “out of my league” here on ESBM and this thread, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the time spent with you and all yall. I am just fumbling my way on my pathway to “No Path”.

I think I may have inadvertently derailed my own “thread” by bringing up my TBI/ABI. I must get back to “Adios Apollo”…El Ron is about to “Jump Ship”!:happydance:

Face:)


Au contraire mon ami. You are at the right place and right time for each of us, exercising good communication with heart and soul. What more could anyone expect? What more could be expected of each other?

About 8 years ago I had determined that I had enough of internet postings. I had stated all I wished to state regarding clearing, scientology, Hubbard, the church, good auditing, bad auditing, good management, bad management, insane orders... You name it. Have even discussed other techs, extraordinary releases, and so on. Thought I had said it all. Then someone like yourself comes along to liven the exchange and, damn it, I am still here. So thank you very much, I think. :dieslaughing:

One of my lingering interests is that of inspecting what gets run in during processing along with what gets run out. Hubbard put attention on running stuff out. So what gets run in? So far I have not been happy with what I have found because it ain't pretty.

From the ted.com web site: "Michael Shermer says the human tendency to believe strange things -- from alien abductions to dowsing rods -- boils down to two of the brain's most basic, hard-wired survival skills. He explains what they are, and how they get us into trouble."

Believing strange things?! Hello dianetics and scientology! Take me to your train station on Venus! :dieslaughing:

Among other things, this talk answers for me the fallacy of "earlier similar" and other scientological brain rewiring. The vision of all the know-besters and self anointed authorities doing what Hubbard would do according to their own limited perceptions still disgusts me.

At this point I will add my disclaimer: I have had and produced great gain with dianetic and scientology auditing. Yet, I feel it is severely bugged. Being bugged is like having an open back door that any hijacker can use at will.

I hope you all enjoy the talk and get something out of it.

<http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_shermer_the_pattern_behind_self_deception.html>
 
Mark Baker, I was just thinking about getting your take on something. First, however, I wanted to thank Face for his post explaining the kind of effort it takes him to post. I found the section about seeing things like an artist sees them very interesting.

Mark, what is your take on the Governor in Arizona enacting laws similar to what the Federal Government has on the books to keep illegals from entering their state?

Well being descended from spanish colonists in california I fully admit to having prejudices about immigration across the border. The invading hordes of unwanted immigrants to whom my grandmother customarily objected came principally from the east, not the south. :coolwink:

However, yes I concur that the constitution states quite explicitly that immigration policy is the responsibility of the federal government and not the states.

I'm not a lawyer & I don't know all the details of the az legislation, but from what I have seen written about the az legislation it is just possible that the bill writers crafted it "clevely" to do an end run around the constitution by focusing on issues relating to the legitimate concerns of the state. I certainly suspect that is their intent.

[n.b. Excessive cleverness in legislation (or engineering, or practically anything else for that matter) is rarely a "good thing". KISS. Although of course, those who seek to profit from examples of such "cleverness" generally find reason to favor it.]

States are sovereign powers and as such an argument based on a state's right to enforce its own laws may well hold up in court. This is especially so given the current nature of the operating majority on the bench. However, scotus is not always predictable. It will be an interesting case to watch.

I consider that the root of the problem lies with much too tolerant an approach traditionally having been taken with corporate employers of non-legal residents. But then there is far too much attention paid in this country to the rights of "legal fictions", and not enough attention is paid to the legitimate requirements of actual persons. There is absolutely no need for corporations to possess civil rights or other rights typically extended to persons beyond the minimum required for the conduct of business. Again, unfortunately the scotus, led by two of the most extreme corporate lawyers in the country, recently placed there by that criminal poster child of poor government - w, isn't likely to see things in this way.

However, since corporations exist ONLY by dint of congressional legislation it is POSSIBLE to correct this problem by federal legislation aimed at limiting the powers & privileges of a corporation. That is the legislative change I would most like to see from congress and which would do the most to reinstate the interests of the people over their government.


Mark A. Baker
 
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FROM A FRIEND

Well being descended from spanish colonists in california I fully admit to having prejudices about immigration across the border. The invading hordes of unwanted immigrants to whom my grandmother customarily objected came principally from the east, not the south. :coolwink:

However, yes I concur that the constitution states quite explicitly that immigration policy is the responsibility of the federal government and not the states.

I'm not a lawyer & I don't know all the details of the az legislation, but from what I have seen written about the az legislation it is just possible that the bill writers crafted it "clevely" to do an end run around the constitution by focusing on issues relating to the legitimate concerns of the state. I certainly suspect that is their intent.

[n.b. Excessive cleverness in legislation (or engineering, or practically anything else for that matter) is rarely a "good thing". KISS. Although of course, those who seek to profit from examples of such "cleverness" generally find reason to favor it.]

States are sovereign powers and as such an argument based on a state's right to enforce its own laws may well hold up in court. This is especially so given the current nature of the operating majority on the bench. However, scotus is not always predictable. It will be an interesting case to watch.

I consider that the root of the problem lies with much too tolerant an approach traditionally having been taken with corporate employers of non-legal residents. But then there is far too much attention paid in this country to the rights of "legal fictions", and not enough attention is paid to the legitimate requirements of actual persons. There is absolutely no need for corporations to possess civil rights or other rights typically extended to persons beyond the minimum required for the conduct of business. Again, unfortunately the scotus, led by two of the most extreme corporate lawyers in the country, recently placed there by that criminal poster child of poor government - w, isn't likely to see things in this way.

However, since corporations exist ONLY by dint of congressional legislation it is POSSIBLE to correct this problem by federal legislating aimed at limiting the powers & privileges of a corporation. That is the legislative change I would most like to see from congress and which would do the most to reinstate the interests of the people over their government.


Mark A. Baker

Around 1984 in California the public got an initative on the ballot and it passed. This ballot required police to identify, detain, and turn over to immigration those folks picked up in violation of some law and then found to be in the state illegally. This was very similar to the current Arizona law--- which the Californian's are currently wailing and thrashing about!!!
In truth the California law is still on their books, but it was put under injunction by a federal judge and cannot be enforced.
I love the web. No one can hide from the web.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Thanks for your answers

Mark - I found your analysis very objective and it contained many good points. Thank you for posting it! Carmelo, you make a good point with the California law which the voters passed in 1984. I do not remember that law passing so it was like receiving brand new news to me. I am not really knowledgeable about the Arizona law. Of course my gut feeling is to support it and is also that the Arizonans are not being racist or biggoted in any way but merely trying to protect their property and if the Federal government won't do its job, they want to bypass them and do it themselves.

However, my reactions are just knee jerk reactions based on emotions. I looked to Mark and the rest of the board to fill in the issue with the pertinent legal and moral issues at stake and Mark and Carmelo did just that.
Lakey
 
Thank you. I’ve tried a friend's laptop…it just doesn’t “feel” right in the garden…like it doesn’t belong there and I don’t belong there with it…crazy, I know, but I’m comfortable in my craziness…most of the time.:confused2:


Know what you mean. Sometimes things just don't feel right in the place they are currently occupying. Move it & the weirdness goes away.


Mark A. Baker
 
Around 1984 in California the public got an initative on the ballot and it passed. This ballot required police to identify, detain, and turn over to immigration those folks picked up in violation of some law and then found to be in the state illegally. This was very similar to the current Arizona law--- which the Californian's are currently wailing and thrashing about!!!
In truth the California law is still on their books, but it was put under injunction by a federal judge and cannot be enforced.
I love the web. No one can hide from the web.

Very good points CO. Which is why "the devil's in the details" and its hard to second guess scotus, especially for the present & when corporate financial interests may be at stake. :omg:


Mark A. Baker
 

Kutta

Silver Meritorious Patron
Kutta - Helen and Joe were married when I first encountered them in 1971. There was no Nancy Hochman on lines at CC when I got there.

Thank you for your reply Lakey. I must have got it wrong. I still can't get it out of my head though. The Nancy I knew had a daughter called Jessica, just a baby in about 1977 or 8. Her husband came over to the UK to visit at Christmas time. I thought that was Joe Hochman. He was a tall, well built man with dark curly hair. He looked like he may have had some Mexican in him.

I also found on google a family tree where a Joe Hochman is listed as having 3 wives, Helen, Nancy, and Annette. It looks as though he is still married to Annette and that they run a field auditing business in a few US centres and that they audit celebs.

Perhaps someone here has information about the Nancy I knew. I would love to know how she is doing now. She would be about late 50s or 60ish now.
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
I was out of CCLA after 1975.

Thank you for your reply Lakey. I must have got it wrong. I still can't get it out of my head though. The Nancy I knew had a daughter called Jessica, just a baby in about 1977 or 8. Her husband came over to the UK to visit at Christmas time. I thought that was Joe Hochman. He was a tall, well built man with dark curly hair. He looked like he may have had some Mexican in him.

I also found on google a family tree where a Joe Hochman is listed as having 3 wives, Helen, Nancy, and Annette. It looks as though he is still married to Annette and that they run a field auditing business in a few US centres and that they audit celebs.

Perhaps someone here has information about the Nancy I knew. I would love to know how she is doing now. She would be about late 50s or 60ish now.

I came to CCLA around October of 1970 and checked out in the Fall 0f 1975. The reason was that I was beginning the Briefing Course at ASHO on Jan 2, 1976. After that I was strictly ASHO public for training and AOLA public for auditing plus taking auditing in Florida. I did go back and check CCLA out in 1979 at the La Brea building. I was PTS so I took the PTS/SP Course there. It was pretty much all new people there in '79, just a handful remaining from my time there in the early 70's. I knew no one on course at all and I was not really a celebrity of any kind. Val Garcia was the Purif in Charge at CCLA and the Purif had just come out and Val regged me for it but all my friends were now at ASHO and they were taking the Purif there so I decided to do it there to be with my friends. With Yvonne deceased and Irene Derman and Sam Loria transfered to other Orgs and Hector no longer the Registrar, CCLA in 1979 was pretty dead, as I saw it. They did have an auditorium there to put on shows but the shows were maybe only once a week not every night as they were over on 8th St. The only old friend I bumped into was Dan Linker, the single Jewish guy who used to tell Jewish jokes with me and my Brother over at New York George's restaurant across from the complex. He was still single, still hustling the women at CCLA and knew even more Jewish jokes, all of which I now know.

If Nancy had showed there in 1975, I might be able to figure out who she is but arriving in 1977, I was gone by then. You know, Hector Carmona was still the head registrar there all the way up to around 1981 or 82. I'll bet he would know who Nancy is. I have his phone number and email address. If you want them, PM me and I will forward them to you.

I remember what Joe and Helen Hochman looked like perfectly, as if I saw them yesterday. Joe was my exact height, about 6' and was husky, with a stocky build, probably weighing about 190 as I did. He had dark brown and thick hair and he had a pretty thick mustache. His facial features were rounded, not angular. He was doing then, with Helen, the same thing he is apparently is doing now with his current wife, Annette, namely being field auditors on lines with a major Org. He almost never wore a shirt with a collar, it was always a tee shirt or a sweat shirt.
Lakey
 
A lady goes to her priest one day and tells him, 'Father, I have a problem.

I have two female parrots,

But they only know to say one thing.'

'What do they say?' the priest asked.

They say, 'Hi, we're hookers! Do you want to have some fun?'

'That's obscene!' the priest exclaimed,

Then he thought for a moment.....

'You know,' he said, 'I may have a solution to your problem. I have two male talking parrots, which I have taught to pray and read the Bible...

Bring your two parrots over to my house, and we'll put them in the cage with Francis and Peter.

My parrots can teach your parrots to pray and worship,
And your parrots are sure to stop saying... That phrase... In no time.'

'Thank you,' the woman responded, 'this may very well be the solution.'

The next day,
She brought her female parrots to the priest's house....

As he ushered her in,
She saw that his two male parrots
were inside their cage holding rosary beads and praying...

Impressed,
She walked over and placed her parrots in with them...

After a few minutes,
The female parrots cried out in unison:

Hi, we're hookers! Do you want to have some fun?'

There was stunned silence...

Shocked, One male parrot looked over at the other male parrot and says,

'Put the beads away, Frank,
Our prayers have been answered!
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
A Short Trailer of Good News Soon To Come

BlueSpirit…Good to see you again. Thanks. I figured you for a card carrying CCG. So when are you gonna give us the “scoop”?
Face:)

I have recently had an operation which has kept me under the weather with
some drugs and pain. I am however off the drugs after 3 days and the pain is
only intermittent. I am healing well, but will need 3 months for that to complete.

My new/old relationship with my spiritual advisor, processor, and good friend, is progressing by leaps and bounds.

He has put me directly in touch with the former LRH, as has happened once before with another being. Both are old friends of his. This experience has been VERY enlightening and expanding, as it is leading me to other beings of Power and enlightenment also. It has also been a lot of downright FUN, as I get to take full notes while he waits. About two hours worth so far. As far as I can tell this being resolved the negative side of the old LRH lifetime and has reached much higher levels of consciousness.

LRH has willingly admitted his shortcomings of the LRH life, and has been fully forthcoming with answers to all of the questions I have asked. Since he is now so available to me, I have more questions and when I'm done intend to write up all of his answers in some organized form for the benefit of those interested here and elsewhere.

I recognize that many here will disbelieve or antagonize against this, but I only do what is real to me and have basic honesty, which I consider important.
Those opposed to LRH are somewhere on their road to higher levels of consciousness which will entail all beings cooperating, respecting and loving each other at some future date, as has actually been done elsewhere.

I hasten to add that I am not an LRH worshipper, at least anymore. That being currently has much power and love for others and has demonstrated that directly to others.
He is totally aware of what has happened to Scientology, and that his full former life has become an open book on the net.
A quote from him regarding the last part of his life: "I was a fucking mess". (his words)

Better news than above is that a very big and capable being is coming quite soon to this site. He was a former Scientologist has has done more courses and levels than anyone I know and acheived "Kha Khan" status several times over (not that DM respected that at all).
His nickname will start with "MAGIC......"
You will find his story fascinating, particularly if you still believe in "OT' abilities.

Both he and I are using other beings besides the one known as LRH in our quest for spiritual development and freedom.
I will let him introduce them to you, as they are his comm lines.
One has a book easily obtainable.

MORE TO COME.
 
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Written by Ken Urquhart on private IVy list

Regarding group dynamics, I'd say that LRH didn't have it
all figured out at all, and had some of it backwards.I think
it's quite obvious that he had a serious MU or two on the
subject of Power.

A very interesting approach (to me) is at:
http://www.co-intelligence.org/

A former SO member developed this site and its related
activity.

I find it extremely refreshing. It's an approach that invites
input from all involved in a project or situation, or, from
a group of independent individuals who are educated
on the factors in the situation and the desired outcome.
Amongst themselves, they can come up with solutions
that work, even if on their own, they have no experience
or know-how in the field that they're assisting with.

[It'll be a long time before I put
myself again in the hands of an individualistic "leader" who
throws his cloak of ownership over his empire. There has
to be a lot more two-way flow in a group than LRH seemed
to think necessary as he aged.]

Another interesting commentary is "The Courageous
Follower," also by a former SO member. He makes the point
that a leader's first echelon of support have to have the
courage, individually and collectively, to tell the leader where
he is going off the rails.

LRH once told me that my job as LRH Comm was to help
him not make a mistake. That was in his looser years.
Later, pointing out a mistake to him was not welcomed
at all. In later years he said that he valued my judgment
and often accepted it -- after he had asked for it, but never
before.

He rarely acknowledged a group as a group with any
warmth. He could commend an org for highest ever
something or other and make some fuss, but never in
the way in which he could acknowledge an individual
who was producing brilliantly and noisily along some
line that he approved of, even if that individual's
performance were destructive to some other part of
the group. I don't get that LRH had much arc for any
group or for the idea of groups. Look at how he bled
staff of money, from early years to the very end.

He was *very* good at organizing. He could out-produce
just about everybody else on just about any hat. He could
relate with individuals with utmost warmth and mutual
happiness.

With groups, on a personal level, in my opinion, he backed
off into a military valence after the mid-sixties. Prior to that,
he was much more approachable, personable, and
affable. Of course, until he built up SH in the mid-sixties,
he usually had a reasonably small group around him and
could afford to walk about, interacting with people. At SH,
in the early sixties, there were less than thirty on staff, and
probably ten - fifteen of those were people he would not
see much --groundsmen, clerks, and so on.

What brought about that change? One has to guess at the
shocks that prompted him towards a 'solution' that could
not work, the military approach.

Ken
 
this is funny

Little Dog, Large Estate
by Mark Maremont and Leslie Scism
Friday, June 18, 2010


A chihuahua is at the center of a fight over Posner heiress' will.

Her name is Conchita, a thin, spa-loving, diamond-draped heiress, and she's at the center of one of America's nastiest estate battles.

She is also a dog -- a chihuahua who was the favorite of the late Miami heiress Gail Posner, a daughter of the corporate takeover artist Victor Posner.

When Ms. Posner died in March at age 67, Conchita and two other dogs inherited the right to live in her seven-bedroom, $8.3 million Miami Beach mansion, their comfort ensured by a $3 million trust fund.

The canines weren't the only ones who benefited from Ms. Posner's munificence. Seven of her bodyguards, housekeepers and other personal aides were left a total of $26 million under her will, and some also were allowed to live, rent-free, in the mansion to care for the dogs.

Now, in an attempt to revoke the will, Ms. Posner's only living child, Bret Carr, has filed a lawsuit against a bevy of his mother's former staff members and advisers alleging a dark intrigue.

Miami heiress Gail Posner with Conchita the Chihuahua.
Household aides, he claims, drugged his sick mother with pain medications and conspired to steal her assets by inducing her to change her will and trust arrangements in 2008. Others, including his mother's trust attorney, he alleges, used their influence to bend her wishes. Mr. Carr, who was bequeathed a relatively paltry $1 million in his mother's will, makes the claims in a lawsuit filed last week in probate court in Miami-Dade County.

Among Mr. Carr's claims is that the aides directed a "deeply disturbed" Ms. Posner to hire a publicist to promote Conchita as "one of the world's most spoiled dogs" -- complete with a four-season wardrobe, full-time staff and diamond jewelry. Mr. Carr's lawyer, Bruce Katzen, says he believes the publicity campaign was part of a "ruse" to explain why a large trust fund was needed to care for the dogs.

It's too early to predict the outcome of the case. But Ray Madoff, a Boston College law professor and co-author of an estate-planning guide, says wills that leave little or nothing to legitimate heirs but millions to caretakers are usually thrown out by courts, as likely to have been written with "undue influence" by the caretakers.

The case has echoes of the late Leona Helmsley. In 2007, the New York real estate magnate left a $12 million trust fund to Trouble, her pet Maltese. A judge later cut that down to $2 million and directed the rest go to charity. Under the terms of Ms. Posner's trust, the mansion is to be sold after her dogs die, and the proceeds donated to charity.

But the Posner dispute has a grimmer backdrop. The clan has long been haunted by drug and alcohol addiction, claims of sexual abuse allegedly committed by Victor Posner and prior legal battles over the spoils of Mr. Posner's 1980s-era checkered career.

A master of the hostile takeover who became one of America's highest-paid executives, Mr. Posner pleaded no contest to tax evasion charges in 1987 and was later barred from involvement with public companies.

Mr. Carr, a Hollywood screenwriter and filmmaker, has his own troubled past. He was arrested in 1992, charged with counterfeiting traveler's checks. He received probation, and told The Wall Street Journal in 1994 that his grandfather severed all contact with him after the incident.

Mr. Carr also names as a defendant BNY Mellon, which helped oversee a trust that Mr. Posner established for his daughter in 1965. According to the complaint, the trust at one point was worth more than $100 million. It was terminated in 2008 and its remaining assets distributed to Ms. Posner.

A BNY Mellon spokeswoman said the bank "acted appropriately" as trustee, and plans to "vigorously defend" against the lawsuit. Martin Rosen, an attorney who was a trustee for the trust until shortly after Victor Posner's death in 2002, said that it held "in the area of $6 million" when he left his post and "never had $100 million or anything like it."

Mr. Carr's relationship with his mother is portrayed in the lawsuit as rocky, but he says they had a close relationship during "the sober phases of her life." He also says she variously told him that he would inherit her entire estate; half of her inheritance from Victor Posner; and a house next door to hers, also owned by the family.

According to the complaint, Ms. Posner had a "long history of paranoia" and was concerned about her security. She eventually hired several bodyguards. The lawsuit contends that these people, along with other domestic staff, allegedly conspired to isolate Ms. Posner from family members, proceeding to "brainwash" her into believing her son was out to kill her and only the staff could be trusted.

Ms. Posner allegedly told her son she was "being kidnapped by the staff who was trying to kill her."

Around this same period, Ms. Posner began publicizing her pampered pooch. In an interview with the Miami Herald in 2007, she said the dog's most precious possession was a Cartier necklace worth $15,000, but the dog choked on it and was refusing to wear it.

"Conchita is the only girl I know who doesn't consider diamonds her best friend," Ms. Posner was quoted as saying.

In a 2009 interview with a blogger for browardpalmbeach.com, Ms. Posner said Conchita typically accompanied her on lunch dates and then shopping. Ms. Posner said she at one point considered getting the dog her own Range Rover, for transportation to the animal's weekly spa appointments for manicures and pedicures, but Ms. Posner decided to get herself a new car and gave the dog her gold Cadillac Escalade, she told the blogger.

In 2008, already sick with cancer, Ms. Posner executed a new will and trust agreement, overseen by a New York lawyer, Sanford Schlesinger, who is named a defendant in the suit. Under the new arrangement, according to the lawsuit, Ms. Posner left $10 million to one bodyguard, $5 million to another and $2 million to a personal trainer.

A housekeeper and personal assistant, Queen Elizabeth Beckford, would receive $5 million if she agreed to care for Conchita and two other dogs, April Maria and Lucia, at the mansion "with the same degree of care" they received while Ms. Posner was alive, according to the trust established to distribute Ms. Posner's assets. Ms. Beckford also was given permission to live, rent-free, in Ms. Posner's Miami Beach mansion, along with her mother. Ms. Beckford's daughter, another assistant, received $1 million.

Reached at the Miami Beach mansion, Ms. Beckford declined to comment, saying "everything is confidential" before hanging up. Hernando Quintero, the bodyguard who inherited $10 million, could not be reached for comment. Orion Sewell, who was bequeathed $5 million, declined to comment.

An attorney representing Mr. Schlesinger and Gail Posner's trust declined to comment.

Ms. Posner left the remainder of her estate to charity, with one-quarter directed to animal shelters and the rest to breast cancer and suicide-prevention causes. She also left another request: that the canine-care staff also look after her pet turtles.

-- James Oberman contributed to this article.

Write to Mark Maremont at [email protected] and Leslie Scism at [email protected]
 
This thread is close to being number two on Casey Kasem's Top 40 Countdown.

This thread has been clicked on nearly 80 thousand times.

To understand that datum better, one needs a datum of comparable magnitude.

i submit the following, it has been watched by over two million viewers, it is a sea turtle's personal video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E43sg-Ytt58

life is a joke, enjoy it.

play it to have happiness

don't take it (or me) seriously
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Adios Apollo, Part 1

After the Atlantic crossing the Apollo sailed its’ last days in the Caribbean. Some of the Ports were very nice, like the Bahamas and Curacao, and some were backwater at best like St. Vincent and Grenada. I was hot, very hot and the only air-conditioned spaces on the Apollo were El Ron’s and Family and the Engineer's Cabins.

It was at this time that El Ron decided to resurrect El Ron, The Photographic Genius and, with entourage in tow, would travel around various Islands adding to Hisself’s “Photo Tech Breakthrough” portfolio.

The Crew and Outer Org Student compliment steadily increased and the berthing and dining conditions concurrently worsened. Added to this was the fact that the Ports pretty well became the Netherlands Antilles and close by backwaters. The heat, humidity and beyond over-crowded conditions was accentuated by a steadily decreasing quality of the food. The period that Leon talked about was very similar to the conditions of this era. It got so bad that many of the crew formed little “co ops” and contributed to a “fund” that designated co op members would use to go ashore and make purchases, so that the membership could “supplement” their diets with actual edible food. The perennial roach population on the Ship exploded and several waves of severe fevers and flu set in.

There was no Ship’s Doctor, only a couple of Medical Officers that had some “Wog” nurse training. The worst cases were put in isolation in makeshift hospital wards and the rest just toughed it out. Face was one of the ones that wound up in isolation, but my conditions were better than most of the others as I was from the Midships Upper Decks bunch. Even with that, for 3 weeks I was the most miserably sick I had ever been. I lost a tremendous amount of weight, and was obviously very weak and debilitated when I was finally allowed to leave isolation. That day, when I returned to my post, El Ron breezed by, entourage in tow, off to another photo shoot. Hisself stopped for a moment to welcome me back and “Cheer” me up. Placing Hisself’s hands on my shoulders, he looked squarely into my eyes and said, “Well now, Face, nothing, nothing could be as bad as all that!” I managed a little smile and said, “No, Sir…Thank you, Sir…I’ll be fine, Sir.” And, with that he was off and by the end of the day I was up to eyeballs with a plethora new El Ron Orders, delivered by a steady stream Messengers. A month passed…a very miserable month…before Face was the “old” Face again.

Meantime, El Ron was having the time of his life playing with his cameras and other toys, Hisself and Family dining on the finest of foods flown in from the US, or purchased from the food stocks of resort hotels on some of the islands.

This time period saw the genus of what Face felt, at the time, as a very dangerous “Bright Idea” of El Ron’s that has, ultimately, destroyed anything and all things that were “good” or tolerable about the SO and the CofS. El Ron took his little Frankenstein Monster, the Commodore’s Messengers, and gave it a “brain” and let it procreate. The CMO began to grow, become its own autonomous Org and consolidate its power base. Every opportunity the CMO had to usurp or grow in power was rapidly, aggressively and increasingly viciously taken. In the old days on the Apollo, especially if you were currently one of El Ron’s “Pets”, you could often work with, and around, these little “Children of the Corn”. However, in this new era, the Commodore’s Monster Org was slowly, incessantly taking on the personality and “aura” of its’ Creator/Master. A group “Mind” developed that was instilled into the slowly but steadily increasing numbers.

With the CMO as point, El Ron, The Genius Director emerged and the genus of “Cine”, “Gold” and all that other crap—the “Photo Shoot Org”— was born. The RPF, DPF and folks in lower conditions needing a place to do amends projects were cobbled together, under authority of the CMO, to build cheesy sets, make even cheesier costumes and apply even more cheesy makeup to randomly “drafted” crew for “scenes” that El Ron, The Photographer, would shoot rolls and rolls and rolls of film of. It was hot, humid, miserable, frenetic and chaotic duty.

When the “Power of Source” album bombed and none of the fools in the record industry in Hollywood were willing to take a flyer on it, Never Wrong El Ron announced that his plan all along for that p-o-s was as a “test” to see if Pub US could market a new product. The new products, Hisself now announced, were going to be books, like the Volunteer Ministers Handbook, What is Scientology, etc. and the “sets” were being done so that El Ron, The World’s Best Photographer could shoot the photos that would be in the books. When it became obvious that the sets, costumes, makeup and models, and the photos themselves were crap, Never Wrong El Ron announced that the photos were for Hisself’s untrained, but with some budding, raw artistic talent son, Arthur to use to produce illustrations for the books.

While all this was going, El Ron, The Brilliant added another bright idea that would also forever change the CofS and would, in part, along with the advent of the CMO ultimately lead to the Mission Holders Kristallnacht.

Flag was going to go into the Public Service and Mission/Outer Org Staff Training Business...Bigtime!

I’ll pick it up from there in a day or so with Part 2.

Face:)
 
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