If DM runs ...

[Thrak]

Oh oops!....you all mean "Run" in the sense of "Run away".
I thought this thread was about DM running for President of the U.S.
or something! I'm sure he believes he would be the best President
ever! Do you suppose he could get more than 10,000 votes or
so nationwide?

Probably 9852

 

[GreyWolf]

Thanks for that. That's way more than I understand about this stuff. I would like though if people keep talking about a "coup" to not just say it's "obvious" but if you think that, explain how it would or could happen.

I tend to believe if dm gets locked up or runs, he will still have enough time to put in his guy whoever that might be, and I bet Yingling or whatever her name is would fight to the death letting M&M have any control on behalf of her boss. Also TC has a lot of potential political power in this whole thing and I believe he could have a big influence on the outcome too.

Hopefully we find out sooner than later.

Actually, I do not believe that a coup will work and I don't really think that M&M believe it either. I think they will just try to take over the Freezone community.

 

[Thrak]

Actually, I do not believe that a coup will work and I don't really think that M&M believe it either. I think they will just try to take over the Freezone community.

Fair enough but I really can't see one of the most hated men in the world just hangin with the FZers, there's just no money in it. The only reason he is still around is because scn is a large wealthy organization that he has complete control over. The FZ is nothing like that and he will have no interest in that. Plus by the time whatever happens, you will be able to count the number of dm supporters one hand, maybe one finger.

 

[WildKat]

good summary

Why would DM "run"? Run from what?

All he has to do is hole up somewhere outside the USA where he can't be subpoened and brought in, continue to live whatever lifestyle he wants with the money that is in offshore accounts that HE controls and that no one else in the "church" has any power over (and which our government can't touch), and give orders to his minions and enforcers on the ground at the orgs.

Whatever story he tells to explain his absence (he's off in Africa doing important diplomatic-type work setting up orgs for the future; now he's in Haiti getting a look for himself at conditions there; blah blah blah) will be believed by the faithful no matter what.

The unfaithful will continue to leave, as they've been doing for decades. Public perception of "scientology" will continue to worsen as long as people keep on speaking out, the shrinking will continue until one day it's so small that it's of little interest to anyone anywhere save for the true believers in the "independent" movement.

DM is actually "threatened" by only one thing: evidence of crimes strong enough to convict him in a court of "wog" law and send him to jail. Easy to escape that threat if such "evidence" has been carefully concealed or disposed of, and when you have access to $1.5 billion and are surrounded by a cadre of true believers who will do pretty much ANYTHING to protect you.

Maybe I'm naive -- tell me what I'm not seeing?

I think you nailed it pretty well! Without hard evidence, documented crimes and/or witnesses willing to testify against him, DM will skate through unscathed. And most of the world doesn't care.

If he ever does remove himself (like if his head finally explodes or he drinks himself to death or whatever) the next "Ronbot" in line will step forward, all the failures of Scn can be blamed on DM as the new scapegoat, and things will continue pretty much like before.

As long as there remain true believers who see LRH as an infallible guru, it doesn't matter who's in charge. Nothing is really going to change. And we'll still have our entertainment.

 

[Thrak]

Why would DM "run"? Run from what?

All he has to do is hole up somewhere outside the USA where he can't be subpoened and brought in, continue to live whatever lifestyle he wants with the money that is in offshore accounts that HE controls and that no one else in the "church" has any power over (and which our government can't touch), and give orders to his minions and enforcers on the ground at the orgs.

Whatever story he tells to explain his absence (he's off in Africa doing important diplomatic-type work setting up orgs for the future; now he's in Haiti getting a look for himself at conditions there; blah blah blah) will be believed by the faithful no matter what.

The unfaithful will continue to leave, as they've been doing for decades. Public perception of "scientology" will continue to worsen as long as people keep on speaking out, the shrinking will continue until one day it's so small that it's of little interest to anyone anywhere save for the true believers in the "independent" movement.

DM is actually "threatened" by only one thing: evidence of crimes strong enough to convict him in a court of "wog" law and send him to jail. Easy to escape that threat if such "evidence" has been carefully concealed or disposed of, and when you have access to $1.5 billion and are surrounded by a cadre of true believers who will do pretty much ANYTHING to protect you.

Maybe I'm naive -- tell me what I'm not seeing?

I agree this is very plausible too. But he is still in the US AFAIK. Maybe spends a lot of time on the FW. I'm sure everybody is just thrilled to have him around.

 

[AnonLover]

Hubbard was able to hide his control and thus guilt. There are way too many people testifying about dm for him to pull that trick.

I didnt say i necessarily thought the bitches-fall-on-sword tactic would necessarily work, but i think DM's arrogance, ego & psychosis will drive him down that route by natural osmosis of his own insanity.

Think about it... if successful, this tactic would PROVE without a doubt that DM's beingness & capabilities far outshine that of LRH (in very twisted narcissitic psycho meglomaniac sort of way). LRH = coward who died hiding from the law and lost his freedom, whereas DM beats the law and maintains his freedom.

Yeah yeah i know - the odds of beating the law slim to none if the whole thing implodes. But from DM's viewpoint - he beat the Lisa McPherson case, he won the war with the IRS. He's nearly God-like therefore invincible, he can beat anything the lowly wog world would throw at him. So why run?

now just imagine the courtroom drama that would ensue. Priceless!

 

[Thrak]

I didnt say i necessarily thought the bitches-fall-on-sword tactic would necessarily work, but i think DM's arrogance, ego & psychosis will drive him down that route by natural osmosis of his own insanity.

Think about it... if successful, this tactic would PROVE without a doubt that DM's beingness & capabilities far outshine that of LRH (in very twisted narcissitic psycho meglomaniac sort of way). LRH = coward who died hiding from the law and lost his freedom, whereas DM beats the law and maintains his freedom.

Yeah yeah i know - the odds of beating the law slim to none if the whole thing implodes. But from DM's viewpoint - he beat the Lisa McPherson case, he won the war with the IRS. He's nearly God-like therefore invincible, he can beat anything the lowly wog world would throw at him. So why run?

now just imagine the courtroom drama that would ensue. Priceless!

You're right I could see him trying it. Good luck with that buddy.

 

[GoNuclear]

a coup

A scenario to look at is the lineage of Al Capone.

Originally, it was a true old style gangster, known as a "moustache Pete" that ran the mob in Chicago. When prohibitition was enacted, creating a huge black market demand for booze, Johnny Torrio, known as the "thinking man's criminal" who was second in line to the "moustache Pete" and who was the most trusted underling, set up his boss and disposed of him for failure to get involved with alchohol bootlegging. Johnny Torrio was, in turn, overthrown by Al Capone. There was an attempt on his life, and Johnny, who had made as much money as he could possiby use for a lifetime, decided to cut a deal with Al Capone to allow him to retire. Torrio was available to act as a mediator but nothing more, he was basically retired. Eventually, with Capone as #1, it was his turn to be brought down, and this was done by his most trusted underling collaborating with the Dept. of the Treasury.

How does this relate to Cof$? AFAIK, and as far as others know here ... there is no established process for succession, which, of course, guarantees that there will be a power struggle in the event that the dwarf's liver blows out or if he is struck by lightning. In spite of the int base espee hole, inspite of everything else ... with ever dwindling stats, there will be underlings within Cof$ who are true believers and who want to see Cof$ survive regardless, and believe that with DM at the helm, Cof$ is doomed. Therefore, there may be those plotting even now to take over "for the greatest good on the greatest number of dynamics". So, the question is, 1) is anybody really trusted, my guess is "NO!!!" and 2) who would be strong enough and ruthless enough. If I was in a close position, the way I would go about things would be to attempt to seduce Laurie Stuckuppenuff or whatever her name is. If I couldn't do that personally, I would hire someone who could and get pictures taken. Along those lines, the best bet would be to get a woman to do that job. Even if Laurie has no inclinations along those lines, enough booze with a few other ingredients thrown in might work wonders and the camera would do the rest. Just from what I know ... and I'm certainly not on the inside ... that would be the best leverage ... unless Shelly is still above ground and could somehow be liberated.

Pete

 

[OHTEEATE]

fun to guess ...

Hmmm, here is what I guess will happen: Diana Hubbard will take over the COB post and clean house. She will be pushed to the forefront to do it, reluctantly. Mike and Marty, nah, can't see it happening, even if they were so inclined. I ran every name I knew past a good friend who used to work with all those guys, and it was nnnnnnnnooooooo, one after the other. Guilliume, Marc, nope. Too beaten down. Can't beat that Hubbard name when it comes to name brand recognition. Otherwise, my second guess, is that the governments of the places where the actual funds are will simply seize it all, and steal it under some pretext. Also seize all the real estate, including all the "secret" CST sites. Cheap mineshaft, anyone?

 

[GoNuclear]

a possibility ...

Hmmm, here is what I guess will happen: Diana Hubbard will take over the COB post and clean house. She will be pushed to the forefront to do it, reluctantly. Mike and Marty, nah, can't see it happening, even if they were so inclined. I ran every name I knew past a good friend who used to work with all those guys, and it was nnnnnnnnooooooo, one after the other. Guilliume, Marc, nope. Too beaten down. Can't beat that Hubbard name when it comes to name brand recognition. Otherwise, my second guess, is that the governments of the places where the actual funds are will simply seize it all, and steal it under some pretext. Also seize all the real estate, including all the "secret" CST sites. Cheap mineshaft, anyone?

Dianna taking over? She would need some serious backing. What is interesting though ... Cof$ could then sell people on how liberated and forward looking they are with a woman at the helm, it might also sell an image of change. Nobody takes over the COB title without the backing of the CST lawyers and some other behind the scenes power brokers. That brings up the subject of Pat Broeker, who is still lurking around somewhere, a possible ticking timebomb.

Should be fun to watch. I don't buy that DM is stepping down anytime soon though.

Pete

 

[Thrak]

A scenario to look at is the lineage of Al Capone.

Originally, it was a true old style gangster, known as a "moustache Pete" that ran the mob in Chicago. When prohibitition was enacted, creating a huge black market demand for booze, Johnny Torrio, known as the "thinking man's criminal" who was second in line to the "moustache Pete" and who was the most trusted underling, set up his boss and disposed of him for failure to get involved with alchohol bootlegging. Johnny Torrio was, in turn, overthrown by Al Capone. There was an attempt on his life, and Johnny, who had made as much money as he could possiby use for a lifetime, decided to cut a deal with Al Capone to allow him to retire. Torrio was available to act as a mediator but nothing more, he was basically retired. Eventually, with Capone as #1, it was his turn to be brought down, and this was done by his most trusted underling collaborating with the Dept. of the Treasury.

How does this relate to Cof$? AFAIK, and as far as others know here ... there is no established process for succession, which, of course, guarantees that there will be a power struggle in the event that the dwarf's liver blows out or if he is struck by lightning. In spite of the int base espee hole, inspite of everything else ... with ever dwindling stats, there will be underlings within Cof$ who are true believers and who want to see Cof$ survive regardless, and believe that with DM at the helm, Cof$ is doomed. Therefore, there may be those plotting even now to take over "for the greatest good on the greatest number of dynamics". So, the question is, 1) is anybody really trusted, my guess is "NO!!!" and 2) who would be strong enough and ruthless enough. If I was in a close position, the way I would go about things would be to attempt to seduce Laurie Stuckuppenuff or whatever her name is. If I couldn't do that personally, I would hire someone who could and get pictures taken. Along those lines, the best bet would be to get a woman to do that job. Even if Laurie has no inclinations along those lines, enough booze with a few other ingredients thrown in might work wonders and the camera would do the rest. Just from what I know ... and I'm certainly not on the inside ... that would be the best leverage ... unless Shelly is still above ground and could somehow be liberated.

Pete

I agree that the mob is a good place to look for precedents since scn IS organized crime. In the future I wouldn't be surprised if there is more admiration for flubbo from the criminal community. To make over a billion selling a non existent product and to even get tax free status was no small accomplishment. He should be recognized as one of the most creative criminals of the 20th century.