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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
I would counter that the person created his own time track when he committed his transgressions. Also, isn't it true that in the Military, soldiers are given amends to do and then are re admitted to the group? Much of Hubbard's organizational tech is derived from his Naval experiences.

I am not suggesting putting Hubbard back in the driver's seat! I am suggesting that those whom Hubbard injured be placed in the driver's seat. They order Hubbard to "dance to their tune" until such time as he has shown enough contrition and made up the damages to such a degree that he can then be released on his own recognizance to do whatever he wants to do from that point forward.

Ted, I don't know why but I can not reconcile with a no atonement needed concept. Perhaps it is being born Jewish and being exposed to that religion as a youth. Yom Kippur, the "day of atonement." In Catholicism atonement is sought through confession, etc..

I am open to change, maybe I picked up a bunch of crap from those religions. Penal systems the world over are supposed to be built on one paying a penalty for one's crimes against society. A criminal should only be released back into society once he or she has both atoned and been rehabilitated. The lack of requiring atonement would lead to situations where child rapists are not punished but rather symnpathized with and then excused without atonement and rehabilitiation and released back into society to rape more children. This is being done a lot now with today's Modern think.

Hubbard's Danger Formula has been a good mainstay for me. It is one of the elements of his tech which I consider workable. In a world with no contritition and atonement, a man like Hitler would be released on his own after WWII and would be able to move onward and upward without atoning for the damages and destruction which he caused. I do not think I could ever sign on to that policy.
Lakey


Have you considered Sharia Law? This would satisfy "amends" even among the most brutal and demanding of us.

As for the military here in the U.S., sailors and soldiers getting amends? Never heard of it.

If you screw up in the Navy you get a hearing with the XO. If you really screw up you get a Captain's Mast. If the Shore Patrol finds you first you get tossed in the brig, then you get a Captain's Mast.

The Captain might bust your rank. This comes with a dock in pay. This is bad enough. Might confine you to quarters.

Then for real crimes there's jail time, and being dishonorably discharged. Much of this is almost never heard of among the larger population of sailors.

Hubbard's notions of amends, if they come from anyone's Navy, are from several hundred years ago when many sailors were simply Shanghaied into service.

I would refer you back to the descriptions of the narcissistic personality. You will be perceived to have harmed the narcissist, hence amends are justified. On the other hand, the narcissist is never perceptive of him having harmed another.

As for the Hitler reference, see Godwin's Law.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
In Scientology, I understood the conditions were to be applied to a current life....and auditing was supposed to handle the past life track. If one believes that one has lived many, many lives over millions or billions of years, how would one ever do an amends for all of the bad deeds one might have done over that long period of time? I never saw anyone having to do amends for the overts they ran out in session as regards their past life or lives. The act of running out the overts and getting the charge off of them - as-ising the basic so that it wouldn't occur any longer or be bothering the person any longer so that they could live a better life was the action that I saw being done in Scientology.

Did you ever read about or hear LRH saying anything about doing amends for past life overts?

I'm also wondering why LRH is only communicating with Blue or TMT.


Amends for past life overts -- this is compounded by the fact that an overt from one viewpoint is a laudable act from another.

Nope, there's no end to that form of amends. Best to just straighten up and fly right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekaqtBcfhwk
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
So apparently my home state has just lifted the gay marriage embargo. So fresh off the judge's desk that it's not even on the news sites yet.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
So apparently my home state has just lifted the gay marriage embargo. So fresh off the judge's desk that it's not even on the news sites yet.


I suppose that's good.

As far as I am concerned the government should not be in the marriage business at all.
 

gfyork

Patron
I am not suggesting putting Hubbard back in the driver's seat! I am suggesting that those whom Hubbard injured be placed in the driver's seat. They order Hubbard to "dance to their tune" until such time as he has shown enough contrition and made up the damages to such a degree that he can then be released on his own recognizance to do whatever he wants to do from that point forward.

Ted, I don't know why but I can not reconcile with a no atonement needed concept. Perhaps it is being born Jewish and being exposed to that religion as a youth. Yom Kippur, the "day of atonement." In Catholicism atonement is sought through confession, etc..

I am open to change, maybe I picked up a bunch of crap from those religions. Penal systems the world over are supposed to be built on one paying a penalty for one's crimes against society. A criminal should only be released back into society once he or she has both atoned and been rehabilitated. The lack of requiring atonement would lead to situations where child rapists are not punished but rather symnpathized with and then excused without atonement and rehabilitiation and released back into society to rape more children. This is being done a lot now with today's Modern think.

Hubbard's Danger Formula has been a good mainstay for me. It is one of the elements of his tech which I consider workable. In a world with no contritition and atonement, a man like Hitler would be released on his own after WWII and would be able to move onward and upward without atoning for the damages and destruction which he caused. I do not think I could ever sign on to that policy.
Lakey

Lakey,

There's an old quote: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." Something worthwhile there if you can be light-hearted about it.

Actually, it's probably best to dump all "Shame, blame, and regret" if you're holding on to any wrt Hubbard while perhaps remaining willing to, ah, 'look closely' if he ever again invites you to 'play a game' or wants to become a player in one of yours.

It might be worthwhile to consider that he was, actually, a splendid 'trickster.' We generally don't know why he was playing that role (and we rarely let ourselves know why we helped him) but, gosh, he was so VERY good at it. I don't know about you, but for a while I had a ball playing that game! I've kept my eye out for something kinda similar ever since. Best years.... Ya know?

I don't recall whether "Trickster" is one of the major "Items" one hits on real or implanted GPMs or, really, whether there's anything to the GPM stuff. Haven't run it. But if I have to play that role one day, I hope I'm good at it. :)

And "he ruined a lot of peoples lives." Or did a lot of people use him and/or his game to ruin their own -- to do themselves in? Hard to know, really; can be looked at either way.

I do know that I've found it -- less than worthwhile to consider myself a victim. It just so rarely seems helpful. I think every time I've succumbed to that temptation, it has diminished me.

Some folks consider that you are a god. They consider that you always were a god, are one now, and can never be less than a god. From this perspective we are pretending to be human, that is, less than a god, because this is exactly the game we've chosen to play at this exact time. From this perspective, NOTHING happens TO you absent your prior -- agreement. Don't know (or won't let myself know) how real that is; but it's kinda cool.

Best,

G.
 
Nope. Funny you should mention Daniel though... I was on the Class VIII course with him. He was a riot, super-tight jeans, an afro and frilly shirts. We all called him "Daniel's Dick".

Here's who I am:

http://ensifer.wordpress.com/

How's Janna Banana?

What's Wally doing?

I heard Wally was sill "in." - care to comment.

Sorry to hear about your mom.

We once talked about my cowboy boots. . I think that was at ASHO, early 70s. Maybe Santa Clara.

My wife was best friends with Sarah, Wally's wife for a week.
 
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Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
LRH Update

This LRH quote was just sent to my e-mail, this ties right in with a lot of the stuff we have been talking about lately.

LRH QUOTE:
"Man's degradation always stems from his first desertion—or breakage of, really—the Code of Honor. He breaks the Code of Honor and after that he starts downhill and he gets worse and worse and worse and worse. Because his trust in himself is worse and therefore he can't trust what his own space is or his own energy is or anything else
.

RON - The above piece of tech was extremely workable. Too bad you were not a Scientologist! Had you been one and followed your own tech, you would have fared much better in the final years of your life. Lakey

"So this is a completely wild picture. When you look at man's location in the MEST universe and what he has or has not been through, the picture is just incredibly wild. And you start to search through facsimiles to set this picture to rights, all you're going to find is the track of agreements which led him to finally agree to be what he is right now."

— L. Ron Hubbard


Blue Spirit, please pass this on to RON. If he is in such great case shape now, he must have applied this data somewhere in the years since he dumped the LRH identity. Tell him also that though he has cleaned up his own case and is helping you with handling yours, he needs to increase his efforts to clean up the cases of so many of us on ESMB who have been damamged by his tactics of not following the tech which he knew to be true for others but for some reason would not apply to himself.

We have currently effecively assigned him a Danger Conditioin and are bypassing him and handling our messed up cases on our own and formulating new policy to do this while assigning him a condition of Danger. At least that is what I am doing, I can't speak for anyone else. I am really looking forward to him applying an amends and asking for permission to re-enter my group. He should also apply a blow to the enemy and that will be interesting to see when he gets around to doing it.
Lakey

Emma asked me some 4 questions for LRH recently in a post.

I took session time in two sessions to get exact word-for-word answers from LRH,
answering her exact questions, which I sent in a P.M. some days ago with a follow up P.M. asking her if she got the comm.
I have received no response, which I am not OK, with.

Same with Veda recently, regarding a similar comm.

Emma and Veda are both apparently into the dislike of the being who sometime ago possessed the body of LRH.

I'm not celebrating the sanity of LRH either, AND he does have considerable Amends to do.
He himself has fully admitted this and is working on repairing the damage done, and also specifically with D.M.

Referring to my notes, I'll post a little, but am not inclined to talk to an audience that feels it needs to be antagonistic and angry to reinforce their
own cases of Service Facsimiles.
This attitude does not really serve them, me, LRH, or anyone else.
In fact this attitude is what has made living on Earth a hell, in my opinion, and only continues it into the future, such as it might exist.

I see another future which belongs only to those able to be positive regardless of cause to be otherwise.

My personal awareness (not from any other being) is that over the next 15 years we will lose 2/3rds of the population on this planet, and only the positive "higher vibration" beings will survive this situational condition.

It is one's personal choice what Tone or "Vibration" he decides to choose.

The initial and subsequent contacts with "LRH" were completely unexpected and were not done from my own postulates or intentions.
Both beings involved had an early affinity for LRH, and in my observation were Theta enough that they essentially were somewhat protected from LRH's case where he frequently picked on people he felt were vulnerable or weak in some way, as cowards will do.

LRH admitted recently to me that he was a coward re: Mary Sue and "Snow White". To finish that subject, LRH also said:
"I have no justifications; it was insanity, cowardliness, and personal fear.
I apologize."

Regarding D.M. he said to me on 5 August 2010:

"He is a total asshole, who is reflecting the worst side of me, that I'm working to resolve."

Regarding Alexis he said: "I feel horrible about it, and I'm working to make up the damage.

Regarding the bigger picture of damage done by LRH, he is aware of that side
of his beingnesses and said:
"I am working with a group of OT ET's that are teaching me how to do the things I need to do to make up the damage."

On a personal note I have become familiar enough with one of those beings,
that I know him to be a friend of mine, and he not only has been a direct help regarding my case, but has a great sense of humor too.
Just one hell of a lot of fun to work with.
LRH considers him to be senior as a being, and of senior "rank" so to speak.


Lakey, I agree that LRH has a long Liability formula to do, and he Knows it too.

I asked LRH directly if he was a Scientologist, and he said (as a joke)
"No Never !"
Seriously he added that he maintains that beingness only as one of many to work with Scientologists.

He has also said that (on the PDC's) that you will have to run out LRH and Scientology in your processing one day. He did warn us ! :lol:


I will not post anymore on this subject of LRH and Channeling.
It seems to not match the reality here too well.

My experiences have been pure SERENDIPITY for me but will remain personal from now on.

I hasten to add that from the first contact I had no backoff on asking LRH anything and DON'T have him on any pedestal any longer.
He has made it clear a number of times that he acknowledges me as an equal and has commed to me from that viewpoint, not one of superiority.
He is a lot saner now than pre-1986, although that time track universe is no longer part of his universe, he only mocks it up as necessary to communicate with those of tht reality.

I will add that from my personal experiences LRH is easily available to anyone
with essentially rudimentary OT abilities, if you have any left after doing the "OT" levels. :lol:
He likes to be in comm now.

In fact he sent a specific message to Emma to do exactly that.
Emma has not been heard from, but giving her the benefit of the doubt, I know she has a young child and lots of things to do outside of ESMB.


As a side note my OT abilities are still developing, but one of the many beings we Channeled was John McMaster, and I clearly picked up his presence separate from his words.
It cheapens the experience of what I clearly felt to put it into words, but I'll try that medium anyway.
He had a powerful and obvious to me, warm and loving presence with no reservation and it caused a feeling of glowing, beautiful love, very sublime.
That is the best I can do with my non-college background !
 

ensifer

Patron
How's Janna Banana?

What's Wally doing?

I heard Wally was sill "in." - care to comment.

Sorry to hear about your mom.

We once talked about my cowboy boots. . I think that was at ASHO, early 70s. Maybe Santa Clara.

My wife was best friends with Sarah, Wally's wife for a week.

Hmm... it's tough not knowing exactly who I'm conversing with.

Wally is in, doesn't see eye to eye with me on anything. Dolores passed away in June - see my blog about that. Jana huh? We divorced in about 75. She married a pretty nice guy from the SLC Scn center and last I heard was still in Scn.

I haven't thought about Sarah for a while. Back in about '69 I did some "tours" for ASHO and Sarah went with me on one of them.

D
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
CLARIFICATION

Blue, it all gets back to following his own tech. He let major areas of people's lives become dangerous and ultimately collapse by not following things which he knew to be true. The quote above is a perfect example. My life and that of tens of thousands of others was put in danger by him not wearing his various hats which his PROMO insisted that he was doing in a power condition. We had to bypass him and write new policy so as to bring our lives up from Danger. We were not his Seniors but his Juniors so he provided us a Junior Danger Formula where a Junior can assign Danger to a Senior. I have assigned this to him. He can either apply his creation, Scientology tecb, and follow his own policy or he can tell me to fuck off and refuse to do his condition. He never followed Scientology tech during his LRH life and left that life in very poor conddition, as per his own words to you recently, I believe you quoted him as saying that at the end he was a complete fucked up mess.

You say that he is now totally rehabilitated and is doing great. I would like to know how he can be so fullly rehabilitated, after having participated in the destruction of so many lives, including mine. If he now has the ability to move on and expand to higher awareness levels without atoniing for his crimes then that means that Scientology tech is invalid. It means one can get out of Danger and get all the way back to Power while leaving tens of thousands of broken lives in his wake. Hubbard can not have his cake and eat it too. Either the tech is valid and one has to atone for his crimes before one can move forward and reach extreme heights of spiritual awareness or his tech is completly a scam such as Helluva is stating. He can't have it both ways.

What I would like to see is for him to take on a new human body and come back here, put his Ethics in on himself, and commit himself to cleaning up and repairing the damages which he has done to others. Going on to higher levels which we can not imagine and succeeding in that game after tromping all over tens of thousands of us is just not acceptable. In the Universe I agreed to be a part of, such a thing is not possible. Ron does not have my agreement to be doing that and I believe that tens of thousands and probably hundreds of thousands have similar sentiments to mine.
Lakey

Lakey, I fully do agree with your viewpoint on LRH.

Please see my long post just done.

In a nutshell, he is operating as an OT with quite a bit of ARC from my recent experiences.
However, he still has lots of case and the repairing of damages to do for many.

I did specifically suggest he take another body and come back and handle DM and the overall scene.
He acknowledged me by saying that he liked the idea, but that he was not going to take another body.
I am not currently privy to his strategies for handling the damage, but am curious enough to ask, soon.

I do feel he has a bigger picture in mind and I feel certain is working on pushing up the higher OT levels to a more effective level for the common good.
Purely my own perception, but I'm certain of it.
If I asked, I suspect he would properly claim confidentiality.
 
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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I'm also wondering why LRH is only communicating with Blue or TMT.

Maybe they are the only people here who like to talk about it, but there are secretly many others?

Like all the people who *know* they were Jesus Christ in a past lifetime but don't like to brag about it.

Paul
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Ideas of Value

There is the old poster that I still like, a lot: "What if they gave a war and nobody came?"

There is talk of a war with Iran now. How foolish. This would be only a war between governments. The people of Iran do not want war any more than We the Peeps.

When there is upheaval in Iran, go to Twitter to get the real news.

How about a new poster for these times: "What if they printed money and nobody needed or used it?"

I like your ideas and agree.

All currencies are failing.

Any sane person is very much overrun on War.
Nevertheless there seems a seemingly sufficient supply of sycophantically oriented bodies that will be soldiers and have a crashing Mis-Understood word on what Patriotic means. :duh:
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks For That

Though on occasion, giving someone a good hard kick in the arse does qualify as being compassionate.

I agree. It reminds me of the time I was working with a "Scientologist" and he was enturbulating me repeatedly.
I gave him a right hook punch that was so fast he never saw it coming !
He knew he was wrong and that handled that situation once and for all.

There is a time and place.............
 
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Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Not True

In Scientology, I understood the conditions were to be applied to a current life....and auditing was supposed to handle the past life track. If one believes that one has lived many, many lives over millions or billions of years, how would one ever do an amends for all of the bad deeds one might have done over that long period of time? I never saw anyone having to do amends for the overts they ran out in session as regards their past life or lives. The act of running out the overts and getting the charge off of them - as-ising the basic so that it wouldn't occur any longer or be bothering the person any longer so that they could live a better life was the action that I saw being done in Scientology.

Did you ever read about or hear LRH saying anything about doing amends for past life overts?

I'm also wondering why LRH is only communicating with Blue or TMT.

Well you see Blue and TNT are very important Beings.
(He says tongue-in-cheek !) Sorry, but I couldn't resist ! :lol:

Although I have forgotten to ask him how many he is in comm with as friends from the last life, I am quite sure it is in the hundreds and it would really surprise me if it is not in the thousands.
I only know of 3 personally beyond us two.

I did however ask him how many beings he works with in the group which is trying to help mankind and some other planets too.
The answer exceeded 50,000, a very small group considering the spaces and populations involved.
I'm certain their membership is entirely open to any GOOD OT BEING and most certainly there is an unlimited need for more.
Some of these beings, if not most (probable) spend full time working on this situation.

In my experience that is why they are so available to ANYONE with real reach. They have a singular purpose to HELP.
They have granted me much beingness, which has helped me locate my real self. Some ways to go yet, though !
 
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