The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But
- Thread starter lkwdblds
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Veda
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CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
Post Card from Sutter Creek
the Ragtime Festival is on. These are some of the performers, not vids of this week end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THnEh0YxH9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOLc-i7vLOE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH3Svl61zl0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZtQBO0YdOI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQVi0One8Fc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpBOCJ-x7vk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN42OKLXC70
the Ragtime Festival is on. These are some of the performers, not vids of this week end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THnEh0YxH9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOLc-i7vLOE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH3Svl61zl0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZtQBO0YdOI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQVi0One8Fc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpBOCJ-x7vk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN42OKLXC70
lkwdblds
Crusader
Very enjoyable rag time!
Very, very enjoyable! They were all outstanding but I liked the first two plus the Scott Joplin down near the end the best. That second guy really plays a mean boogie-woogie. There is nothing like boogie-woogie. It should always be in style. Tremendous counter rhythms in the bass of the left hand.
Lakey
Very, very enjoyable! They were all outstanding but I liked the first two plus the Scott Joplin down near the end the best. That second guy really plays a mean boogie-woogie. There is nothing like boogie-woogie. It should always be in style. Tremendous counter rhythms in the bass of the left hand.
Lakey
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I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Hey Blue Spirit! Next time you are chatting to your mate L.Ron, give him a little message from me please, tell him he is no longer the Messiah and to STFU ..... permanently.
Hang on ... if you have the time, tell him he is a absolute plonker too.
Ta.
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
The first one was Tim Rotolo, who is now 17, and just finished high school. I hired him for the after party at Dave and Aida's after the Freezone Convention in Pasadena last year. He occasionally plays at Disneyland.
The second one is Carl "Sonny" Leyland, an iducted member of the Boogie Woogie Hall of Fame. i'm not making this up.
Just to finish painting the picture, I'm sitting on the front porch of an 1854 built house (now a Bed and Breakfast) looking up at the dark sky with the crystal clear stars and planets. It has been warm bordering on hot. Now, it is just perfect.
They are beginning to roll the sidewalks up (figuratively). I just left the ice cream parlour. The last ragtime pianist just walked by.
Breakfast is at 8, and I've ordered poached eggs on an English Muffin with fresh squeezed grapefruit juice and coffee that is so smooth that I don't need to add cream.
My faithful friend has a silver platter with Crystal Geyser water and venison snacks. My wife got the best massage of her life today. Our friends, who've come with us three years running now, are also having a great time.
The town was built during the Gold Rush. we're only about 40 miles from where gold was discovered. Like Nantucket and other towns that fell off the commerce track. This is pretty unspoiled. Old houses and buildings predominate. They are kept up, but have the 19th century feel about them.
Sutter Creek is a nice place to get away to.
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Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Either that, or Uncle Remus perpetuates the "happy slave" myth. Makes it easier on the collective consciousness of the white folks if you can smooth over the idea that the slaves could be in the least bit unhappy about their lot in life.
Tell me, when the movie came out, did blacks in the US have the vote and, if not, what did Scientology have to say about it?
lkwdblds
Crusader
I believe you are correct!
My friend Mike G. who I have known since 8th grade and who taught history for 42 years at Lincoln High in Los Angeles responded similarly to what you said Blip. He waid that the NAACP felt that the Uncle Remus character was too much of a stereotype and symbolized the happy, unsophisticated, uneducated black man charicature that had been prevalent in the South since the days of slavery.
I believe my perspective that Uncle Remus was actually smarter than any of the white characters in the movie is a stronger argurment for people of any discernment. It was plain for all to see that even though he was denied an education because of his being black, he nevertheless had obtained more wisdom by far than any other character, white or black, in the movie. To me, my reaction was. "Wow, if Remus was this smart with no education, then if he had received an education, just imagine how far he could have gone. The NAACP doesn't look that deep, they just see Black Man = No Education = stereotype of Black Men in general = Ignorant Man who is only happy because he doesn't know any better.
Blacks got the right to vote when the Civil War ended in 1865. The movie came out in 1948, two years before Dianetics and 3 and 1/2 years before Scientology. I do not think that Hubbard ever commented on the movie.
Lakey
My friend Mike G. who I have known since 8th grade and who taught history for 42 years at Lincoln High in Los Angeles responded similarly to what you said Blip. He waid that the NAACP felt that the Uncle Remus character was too much of a stereotype and symbolized the happy, unsophisticated, uneducated black man charicature that had been prevalent in the South since the days of slavery.
I believe my perspective that Uncle Remus was actually smarter than any of the white characters in the movie is a stronger argurment for people of any discernment. It was plain for all to see that even though he was denied an education because of his being black, he nevertheless had obtained more wisdom by far than any other character, white or black, in the movie. To me, my reaction was. "Wow, if Remus was this smart with no education, then if he had received an education, just imagine how far he could have gone. The NAACP doesn't look that deep, they just see Black Man = No Education = stereotype of Black Men in general = Ignorant Man who is only happy because he doesn't know any better.
Blacks got the right to vote when the Civil War ended in 1865. The movie came out in 1948, two years before Dianetics and 3 and 1/2 years before Scientology. I do not think that Hubbard ever commented on the movie.
Lakey
Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Sure, the blacks were enfranchised in law but not in practise, certainly in the Southern US where suffrage was not extended until the mid-1960s. I'm surprised Scientology had nothing to say about the situation at the time but I am reminded of Hubbard's comments in relation to blacks - wassa matta wid you hat?
But, don't get me wrong. The Uncle Remus stories are a hugely valuable historic record of black US folk stories. They have fallen victim to the passing of time and the change in fashions in regard to language and stereotyping, but will probably have their day again in academia if not the nurseries. A bit like the English writer Florence Kate Upton and her "Gollywog" stories, although I suspect Joel Chandler Harris' intellectual grunt and authenticity will prevail over the long haul.
The movie, however, is another story altogether.
You underestimate the NAACP. Perhaps, like me, it sees the utter waste of an intellect due to racism in the US where, rather than getting an education and bettering his wider society, Uncle Remus, instead, is reduced to amusing and babysitting the white folks' children. That he seems happy in this task and satisfied with his lot in life is to do with assuaging the predominantly white audience so as to enhance box office takings. To watch the movie today is to cringe at the patriarchal nature of the patronising attitude towards the victims of slavery. Next time you watch the movie, keep an eye out for the mud floor Uncle Remus sleeps on while his cuddly-white charges have linen-covered feather pillows for their rest - huh, what's that you say? The movie doesn't show that. Ah well, never mind, there's always the happy, happy, joy, joy songs and smiling wonderment of the cutesy-pie children to warm your heart, I suppose.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Fine and Well
Everything you say is correct, no argument there. The question if whether to forcibly take the movie out of circulation, with the charge against the movie being that it was racist.
This can be looked at several ways. One way was as the NAACP saw it, that it was racist and another way is as I and EP (Ethics Particle) saw it. EP and I were both strongly effected and affected by the movie and certainly there must be hundreds or perhaps thousands like us, who were children back in 1948 and who saw the movie as PORTRAYING A VAST INJUSTICE AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE. As we grew older and into our 20's, many of us started marching against segregation. I did not become such a person but I would have marched if I had been called on to do so. I know this because on a trip to Miami when I was 15, I had occasion to use the City buses and always elected to sit in the Black only section in the back of the bus as a form of protest.
THE KEY ISSUE IN A NUTSHELL
To me, the movie was not racist itself but it did PORTRAY actual racism which had taken place in the United States. The movie was a basically accurate historical account of what racism was like in the Old pre civil war South. IN BANNING SUCH A MOVIE AND PREVENTING THE WALT DISNEY FILM COMPANY FROM EXERCISING FREE SPEECH IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA I believe the movie itself must actually be racist and represent Black people as servile or inferior to whites rather than merely accurately portraying racism which had taken place. When a movie merely portrays event which occurred at a time and place where real racisim was taking place and the movie attempts in a way, to champion the cause of those being discriminated against, then I do not feel that that movie should be banned from circulation.
EXAMPLES USING THE JEWISH PEOPLE In many movies, take the "Ten Commandments" as a stellar example, the Jewish people are portrayed as being slaves, in bondage in ancient Egypt. They toiled all day as slaves for their Egytian masters and were fed only enough to keep them alive. They were whipped whenever they slowed down. They were not allowed to converse socially with Egyptians, nor allowed rest breaks and if they became injured they were forced to keep working until they finally died.
Did the Jewish Groups come forward and demand the movie be banned? No, they did not, they looked at the movie as a means of positive PR for the Jewish people. Just look at many WWII movies such as Schindle's List and so many others. The Jewish people were rounded up, herded into cattle cars, taken to live first in ghetto's and later to extermination camps. They were accuarately portrayed as being inferior physcially and morally to fine Aryan, blond hair and blue eyed, stock. By the example of Uncle Remus, none of these WWII movies portraying the Jews as inferior and being isolated into camps and then exterminated, should have been allowed to be shown.
The reason these movies were allowed and even encouraged to be screened is because the movies themselves were not racist but merely historically portrayed racism. Though I understand the motivation of what the NAACP was trying to do by banning Uncle Remus and other things which they banned such as the Amos and Andy Radio and TV Shows, the Beaulah Show and others, I am sympathetic to the NAACP viewpoint but when viewed objectively and not emotionally, I do not feel that viewpoint is the best viewpoint to take when it comes to getting rid of racism. For those who believe differently and support the banning of the Remus movie, they are right in following what they believe in and the course they took is the right course for them.
Lakey
Everything you say is correct, no argument there. The question if whether to forcibly take the movie out of circulation, with the charge against the movie being that it was racist.
This can be looked at several ways. One way was as the NAACP saw it, that it was racist and another way is as I and EP (Ethics Particle) saw it. EP and I were both strongly effected and affected by the movie and certainly there must be hundreds or perhaps thousands like us, who were children back in 1948 and who saw the movie as PORTRAYING A VAST INJUSTICE AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE. As we grew older and into our 20's, many of us started marching against segregation. I did not become such a person but I would have marched if I had been called on to do so. I know this because on a trip to Miami when I was 15, I had occasion to use the City buses and always elected to sit in the Black only section in the back of the bus as a form of protest.
THE KEY ISSUE IN A NUTSHELL
To me, the movie was not racist itself but it did PORTRAY actual racism which had taken place in the United States. The movie was a basically accurate historical account of what racism was like in the Old pre civil war South. IN BANNING SUCH A MOVIE AND PREVENTING THE WALT DISNEY FILM COMPANY FROM EXERCISING FREE SPEECH IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA I believe the movie itself must actually be racist and represent Black people as servile or inferior to whites rather than merely accurately portraying racism which had taken place. When a movie merely portrays event which occurred at a time and place where real racisim was taking place and the movie attempts in a way, to champion the cause of those being discriminated against, then I do not feel that that movie should be banned from circulation.
EXAMPLES USING THE JEWISH PEOPLE In many movies, take the "Ten Commandments" as a stellar example, the Jewish people are portrayed as being slaves, in bondage in ancient Egypt. They toiled all day as slaves for their Egytian masters and were fed only enough to keep them alive. They were whipped whenever they slowed down. They were not allowed to converse socially with Egyptians, nor allowed rest breaks and if they became injured they were forced to keep working until they finally died.
Did the Jewish Groups come forward and demand the movie be banned? No, they did not, they looked at the movie as a means of positive PR for the Jewish people. Just look at many WWII movies such as Schindle's List and so many others. The Jewish people were rounded up, herded into cattle cars, taken to live first in ghetto's and later to extermination camps. They were accuarately portrayed as being inferior physcially and morally to fine Aryan, blond hair and blue eyed, stock. By the example of Uncle Remus, none of these WWII movies portraying the Jews as inferior and being isolated into camps and then exterminated, should have been allowed to be shown.
The reason these movies were allowed and even encouraged to be screened is because the movies themselves were not racist but merely historically portrayed racism. Though I understand the motivation of what the NAACP was trying to do by banning Uncle Remus and other things which they banned such as the Amos and Andy Radio and TV Shows, the Beaulah Show and others, I am sympathetic to the NAACP viewpoint but when viewed objectively and not emotionally, I do not feel that viewpoint is the best viewpoint to take when it comes to getting rid of racism. For those who believe differently and support the banning of the Remus movie, they are right in following what they believe in and the course they took is the right course for them.
Lakey
Thank you... kind words are always welcome.
lkwdblds
Crusader
This post can serve as a good travel tip!
Great travel recommendation. I never would have thought of going there but now will go as soon as I have a chance. While there, isn't there a fine winery, Sutter Creek Wines? Perhaps a tour of their facility could be added to the itenerary..
Lakey
Great travel recommendation. I never would have thought of going there but now will go as soon as I have a chance. While there, isn't there a fine winery, Sutter Creek Wines? Perhaps a tour of their facility could be added to the itenerary..
Lakey
lkwdblds
Crusader
Part 2 of my Lunch meeting with Johnny and Blue.
Johnny's Father - One topic which we discussed was Johnny's Father, who was quite a character, a Damon Runyonesque guy, colorful and dynamic. He was a bookmaker for gambling in Connecticutt and dealt with everyone who was anyone; the cops, the chief of police, the mayor. He lived up to 85 or 87 and still looked good at the end. Typical of this colorful man's life was the way he passed on. Johnny's Dad was in a hospital, he would go into a coma and Johnny would bring him out. This went on and on for days or perhaps a week or two and then finally Johnny could no longer get him out of his coma. Some time passed and Johnny was talking to his Dad's nurse about his coming demise. The nurse, who was young and attractive, questioned something and Johnny said something to the effect, "Don't worry about that Sweetheart, I'll take care of everyting." Suddenly, there was a loud bellowing from his Dad, "Who's calling who Sweetheart? She's my girl Johnny! Stay away from her, she's my girl!! That was it, those were his last words and he was gone.
Channeling and Bashar
Johnny got involved in channeling through an attractive but non romantic girlfriend whom he had who introduced him to Steve Muro. Johnny was very skeptical at first but his girlfriend dragged her to Muro's. Some results occured there but they were not convincing but it wasn't until he hooked up with Bashar that he became convinced of the eficacy of the subject. Bashar can be seen on youtube, I am going to check that out.
BASHAR is saying that this current generation will be the last one in our downward spiral which has led us to be more materially oriented with our spiritual aspect currently being not-sed by academia. BASHARA is now saying that we are starting a phase where we will become more spiritually advanced and be more similar to the way life is led on BASHARA'S home planet. This is one reason why Johnny is pushing for his Wonderland project.
GIN - Johnny and Blue are involved with GIN, Global Information Network. This is something started by Kevin Trudeau wherein Turdeau will hook everyday people up with very wealthy people. There are fees involved but there is the potential to be a wealthy if a person can get as few as 5 other individuals to join. A multi level marketing approach is used. Johnny and Blue Spirit will be contacting each of you with the details of the program. There is a way to join as an associate member where one pays no fees but still has the main benefits of membership.
That is all that was talked about which I can remember. If I missed anything critical, I will add it later. Enjoy and use this information as you see fit. Whatever you do with it will be correct for you and what happens will be what you intended to happen.
Lakey
Johnny's Father - One topic which we discussed was Johnny's Father, who was quite a character, a Damon Runyonesque guy, colorful and dynamic. He was a bookmaker for gambling in Connecticutt and dealt with everyone who was anyone; the cops, the chief of police, the mayor. He lived up to 85 or 87 and still looked good at the end. Typical of this colorful man's life was the way he passed on. Johnny's Dad was in a hospital, he would go into a coma and Johnny would bring him out. This went on and on for days or perhaps a week or two and then finally Johnny could no longer get him out of his coma. Some time passed and Johnny was talking to his Dad's nurse about his coming demise. The nurse, who was young and attractive, questioned something and Johnny said something to the effect, "Don't worry about that Sweetheart, I'll take care of everyting." Suddenly, there was a loud bellowing from his Dad, "Who's calling who Sweetheart? She's my girl Johnny! Stay away from her, she's my girl!! That was it, those were his last words and he was gone.
Channeling and Bashar
Johnny got involved in channeling through an attractive but non romantic girlfriend whom he had who introduced him to Steve Muro. Johnny was very skeptical at first but his girlfriend dragged her to Muro's. Some results occured there but they were not convincing but it wasn't until he hooked up with Bashar that he became convinced of the eficacy of the subject. Bashar can be seen on youtube, I am going to check that out.
BASHAR is saying that this current generation will be the last one in our downward spiral which has led us to be more materially oriented with our spiritual aspect currently being not-sed by academia. BASHARA is now saying that we are starting a phase where we will become more spiritually advanced and be more similar to the way life is led on BASHARA'S home planet. This is one reason why Johnny is pushing for his Wonderland project.
GIN - Johnny and Blue are involved with GIN, Global Information Network. This is something started by Kevin Trudeau wherein Turdeau will hook everyday people up with very wealthy people. There are fees involved but there is the potential to be a wealthy if a person can get as few as 5 other individuals to join. A multi level marketing approach is used. Johnny and Blue Spirit will be contacting each of you with the details of the program. There is a way to join as an associate member where one pays no fees but still has the main benefits of membership.
That is all that was talked about which I can remember. If I missed anything critical, I will add it later. Enjoy and use this information as you see fit. Whatever you do with it will be correct for you and what happens will be what you intended to happen.
Lakey
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CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
The Gold Country, in general, is filled with things to do and see. There are lots of wineries, tasting rooms, historical buildings, mines that you can go down in, golf, gambling, white water rafting, fishing, you name it.
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Infinite
Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
There is no way in this whole wide world that movie is an accurate portrayal of actual racism and slavery in the pre-Civil War days of the United States. Did you see the chains and the ships used for transport, the whippings, the live auction of human beings, the degradation, the forced removal and shattering of families at gun point . . . where were those scenes?
Lets take your Jewish analogy a step further. Can you imagine a movie about the two blonde, blue-eyed children of the Commandant at Auschwitz left in care of a prisoner . . . would that be an accurate portrayal of the Hollocuast? C'mon, Lakey, you can see that's ridiculous, surely?
As a free speech person I would never be in favour of the movie being banned. With free speech, of course, comes responsibility. Just as I would never take children to a porn movie, nor would I take them to see Uncle Remus. Porn has as much to do with healthy relationships as Uncle Remus does to getting the US to acknowledge its slave history. Its a white-wash - pun intended. Leave the movie available but put an R16 rating on it.
BTW, here's a more accurate portrayal of the realities of slavery captured in just a few minutes than Uncle Remus / Song Of The South displayed in over an hour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ZyuULy9zs
Blue Spirit
Silver Meritorious Patron
Two Way Comm
You give me a real answer to my long and revealing PM to you
and I'll think about satisfying your curiosity.
You give me a real answer to my long and revealing PM to you
and I'll think about satisfying your curiosity.
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RogerB
Crusader
Yes, it's like the Trade Union movement (certainly so in the UK, and was so in Oz when I lived there) . . . . the Trade Union movement has to foment the strife and alleged continued injustices otherwise they have no role or reason to exist.
Forty years a go I wrote a paper in the UK on this scenario. The Trade Union movement had been acting as a deliberate "third party" to keep employer and employees (apparently) in dispute and conflict that the Unions "had" to handle as they "represented" the woikers! and looked after the woikers' interests against the bad employers . . . . never mentioned was the fact that the unions were fomenting all this strife to keep themselves in a cushy job!
Rog
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
Just as the NAACP does not represent ALL colored persons (black, brown, tan, yellow, red, green, gray, purple), the KKK does not represent ALL honkies.
As a kid, I enjoyed Amos and Andy on TV. I never missed a show. The Kingfish was hilarious in his efforts to get ahead. I could relate. Beaulah was a wonderful person. I never considered being someone's house person as I was focused on my induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame. But Beaulah was the show.
Now speaking of baseball, my top heroes from my time were Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays. I wanted to play center field. If I recall, Willie was one of them colored folks -- or was he? No. He was "Willie Mays," the "Say Hey Kid," the one player who could do it all and do it greatly: hit, run, throw, field, entertain...
As for a book or movie depicting racism, especially to a kid not even a teen at the time, are you kidding? Books and movies are works of art. They might be meant to propagandize or indoctrinate, but to the kid, they are merely entertainment -- a money-maker for some company -- entertainment to me. Imagine my disappointment when I discovered that in real life few of the coloreds were like Uncle Remus or the Kingfish or Rochester or Willie Mays. I had black friends whom I played ball with. I knew they were different. I did not know that difference meant racism with all its ugliness.
Should I start up the NARNP, the National Association of Red Neck People, because I have relatives as down-home, hardworking, god-fearing, Southern-drawling, and redneck as anyone? Should I cry the racism card? How ridiculous.
I believe that what we are looking at here is the difference between collectivism and individualism. The collectivist attempts to pile everyone into their separate groups then place one group against the other. The individualist sees differences as different. Auditors are individualists -- at least the good ones are.
It is all too easy for a person to hide behind the collective. It is misleading to take the opinions and stance of one in the collective as representative of all the individuals therein. To put it another way, one Clear has never equaled another Clear no how many times the definition was changed.
The NAACP is as racist as the KKK. Only their methods of expression differ.
Main Entry: col·lec·tiv·ism
Pronunciation: \kə-ˈlek-ti-ˌvi-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1857
1 : a political or economic theory advocating collective control especially over production and distribution; also : a system marked by such control
2 : emphasis on collective rather than individual action or identity
Main Entry: in·di·vid·u·al·ism
Pronunciation: \ˌin-də-ˈvij-wə-ˌli-zəm, -ˈvi-jə-wə-, -ˈvi-jə-ˌli-\
Function: noun
Date: 1827
1 a (1) : a doctrine that the interests of the individual are or ought to be ethically paramount; also : conduct guided by such a doctrine (2) : the conception that all values, rights, and duties originate in individuals b : a theory maintaining the political and economic independence of the individual and stressing individual initiative, action, and interests; also : conduct or practice guided by such a theory
2 a : individuality b : an individual peculiarity : idiosyncrasy
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
I, too, am enjoying your blog.
It is interesting how paths cross when people are paddling their canoes in the same river. I saw you get your award from Diana at the Mazatlan Conference, 1978.
In 1982/3 the Mission Office called me to take over the Stockton Mission because it was being "run by some squirrel."
Doesn't matter. I declined being tired of paddling that sinking canoe in that billabong. Had enough of organized scientology at that time.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Well I am happy you would not want the Remus movie withdrawn from cirulation. I am just curious on what your take is in that Ethics Particle and myself both adopted Uncle Remus as a role model as a result of seeing that movie. How do you view that?
I salute you for pointing out that my adjective "accurate" was used carelessly. I will say this, however, I believe that many plantations had people similar to Uncle Remus. They allowed wise uneducated Blacks to tell their children stories and teach them Black gospel songs and things of that nature. Undoubtedly, a white woman would on occasion ask her Black maid for advice about raising the children and White husbands would on occasion seek out a wisened and older Black man such as Remus to seek his advice on some moral or business decision which he could not figure out. Though the scenario in the movie was not fully accurate, it was not by any means totally inaccurate. It was not a complete picture and did not include many of the horrors which took place. One of those which you did not even mention was the White Master forcing his sexual attentions onto a Black slave giirl often resulting in the birth of children. I believe Thomas Jefferson did engage in that himself.
Lakey
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