The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Veda]

And you cannot ever confront the fact that many thousands of people all over the world had a lot of fun in Scientology..."

-snip yadda yadda -

Leon, old chap, I had fun in Scientology. It was a secretive cult and I was naive.

I had been handed a "Scientology ticket" as I walked into the Fillmore East in New York City to see the Incredible String Band and figured, if the ISB think Scientology is OK, then it probably is OK. I went to the Org and was impressed with Hubbard's books - all of which I read during one summer - and then I was impressed with the new experience of auditing others in the Scientology 'Academy'.

It was an exciting time for a lot of reasons and, now, it seems that these reasons - not the least of which was your own youth - have blended together for some of you reminiscing older chaps.

It's remarkable that the three videos below were made within a year of each other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpYlEvWldEw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WBrUwlv2nE&feature=player_embedded

But, even though I sometimes had fun while at the Org, I didn't go to Org to have fun. When I was in the Org, I was either training or auditing - that's why I went there. (And some of the experiences were better than "fun.")

When I wasn't training or auditing, I'd go home to the sea shore, where I had my 2,000 book library and green eyed red headed (non Scientologist) girlfriend and, there, pursue my other interests.

For some reason I preferred to have most of my fun away from the Scientology Org. According to your way of thinking, that's probably because I was a "Suppressive Person," although it might have had something to do with Scientology too.

http://suppressiveperson.org/spdl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=290&Itemid=30

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=297586&postcount=129

From 'Keeping Scientology Working', 7 February, 1965:

"We're not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn't something cute to do for lack of something better.

"The whole agonized future of this planet, every Man, Woman, and Child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology

"This is a deadly serious activity. And if we miss getting out of the trap now, we may never again have another chance . [See 'Implantology'] Remember, this is our first chance in all the endless trillions of years of the past . Don't muff it now because it seems unpleasant or unsocial to do Seven [Hammering out of existence incorrect technology], Eight..."

Just prior to the appearance of 'KSW', was published the piece 'My Philosophy', in which L. Ron Hubbard told Scientologists:

"Blinded with injured optic nerves, and lame with physical injuries to the hip and back, at the end of World War II, I faced an almost nonexistent future. My service record stated: 'This officer has no neurotic or psychotic tendencies whatsoever', but also stated, 'permanently disabled physically'.

"And so there came a further blow. I was abandoned by family and friends as a supposedly hopeless cripple and probable burden on them for the rest of my days."

And, on 7 March 1965, exactly one month after the appearance of 'KSW' was published 'Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists, the Fair Game Law':

"A Suppressive person or group becomes 'fair game'.

"By Fair Game is meant, without rights for self, possessions or position, and no Scientologist may be brought before a Committee of Evidence or punished for any action taken against a Suppressive Person or group...

"Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce, or impede Scientology or Scientologists.

"Such suppressive acts include public disavowal of Scientology... public statements against Scientology.

"[Suppressive acts also include] 1st degree murder, arson, disintegration of persons or belongings not [emphasis added] guilty of suppressive acts.

"[Suppressive Persons] place themselves beyond any consideration for their feelings or well being...

"The homes, property, places, and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to suppress Scientology... are all beyond any protection."

The above quotes are all from 1965, which began the era of "modern Scientology," in which L. Ron Hubbard began in earnest to apply the basics of this booklet http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg on his own followers.

Strangely enough, some people regard this period as "the good old days."

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Leon, old chap, I had fun in Scientology. It was a secretive cult and I was naive.

I had been handed a "Scientology ticket" as I walked into the Fillmore East in New York City to see the Incredible String Band and figured, if the ISB think Scientology is OK, then it probably is OK. I went to the Org and was impressed with Hubbard's books - all of which I read during one summer - and then I was impressed with the new experience of auditing others in the Scientology 'Academy'.

It was an exciting time for a lot of reasons and, now, it seems that these reasons - not the least of which was your own youth - have blended together for some of you reminiscing older chaps.

It's remarkable that the three videos below were made within a year of each other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpYlEvWldEw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WBrUwlv2nE&feature=player_embedded

But, even though I sometimes had fun while at the Org, I didn't go to Org to have fun. When I was in the Org, I was either training or auditing - that's why I went there. (And some of the experiences were better than "fun.")

When I wasn't training or auditing, I'd go home to the sea shore, where I had my 2,000 book library and green eyed red headed (non Scientologist) girlfriend and, there, pursue my other interests.

For some reason I preferred to have most of my fun away from the Scientology Org. According to your way of thinking, that's probably because I was a "Suppressive Person," although it might have had something to do with Scientology too.

http://suppressiveperson.org/spdl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=290&Itemid=30

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=297586&postcount=129

From 'Keeping Scientology Working', 7 February, 1965:

"We're not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn't something cute to do for lack of something better.

"The whole agonized future of this planet, every Man, Woman, and Child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology

"This is a deadly serious activity. And if we miss getting out of the trap now, we may never again have another chance . [See 'Implantology'] Remember, this is our first chance in all the endless trillions of years of the past . Don't muff it now because it seems unpleasant or unsocial to do Seven [Hammering out of existence incorrect technology], Eight..."

Just prior to the appearance of 'KSW', was published the piece 'My Philosophy', in which L. Ron Hubbard told Scientologists:

"Blinded with injured optic nerves, and lame with physical injuries to the hip and back, at the end of World War II, I faced an almost nonexistent future. My service record stated: 'This officer has no neurotic or psychotic tendencies whatsoever', but also stated, 'permanently disabled physically'.

"And so there came a further blow. I was abandoned by family and friends as a supposedly hopeless cripple and probable burden on them for the rest of my days."

And, on 7 March 1965, exactly one month after the appearance of 'KSW' was published 'Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists, the Fair Game Law':

"A Suppressive person or group becomes 'fair game'.

"By Fair Game is meant, without rights for self, possessions or position, and no Scientologist may be brought before a Committee of Evidence or punished for any action taken against a Suppressive Person or group...

"Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce, or impede Scientology or Scientologists.

"Such suppressive acts include public disavowal of Scientology... public statements against Scientology.

"[Suppressive acts also include] 1st degree murder, arson, disintegration of persons or belongings not [emphasis added] guilty of suppressive acts.

"[Suppressive Persons] place themselves beyond any consideration for their feelings or well being...

"The homes, property, places, and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to suppress Scientology... are all beyond any protection."

The above quotes are all from 1965, which began the era of "modern Scientology," in which L. Ron Hubbard began in earnest to apply the basics of this booklet http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg on his own followers.

Strangely enough, some people regard this period as "the good old days."

I connected with the Co$ in 1968. The suppressive stuff gave me pause from the start. The "love" thing where he talks trash about JFK gave me pause. Doing the bc, I realized the "cookie cutter" program era, where the PC's goals for the session, where the PC in front of (me) you was no longer front and central was the right way - at least for me. Standard Tech was crap compared to 1964 style, at least that was exactly how I read it. Shortly after, I was gone because of the 10% per month raise in prices. I reasoned that the top of the organization had flipped from help to greed. I couldn't be a party to that on any flow.

My girl friend, both when I got involved, and when I left, was the same woman - a non Scientologist. After 35 years, I just this moment realized that. She is still my friend. Friends are always more valuable than any other thing imaginable. This one woman, I have never even kissed, when one of us wasn't married to someone else. In 1976, when I left, after nearly a year of being together, with me, she went back to her husband, and I hooked up with my (then ) future wife, who was also in a dissolving marriage, and I took her out of Scientology,. We lived together for two three years. she got a divorce. we got married, and today, we're still married. She was a class Vlll when we left. It was a good time to be leaving. If you read Jack Horner or AE Van Vogt's stories, anytime is a good time to be leaving. Once the velvet came off LRH's fist, it was a good time to leave.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

And you cannot ever confront the fact that many thousands of people all over the world had a lot of fun in Scientology and had huge wins and successes with it. <snip>

And this justifies what?

Scientology is demonstrably a fascist and totalitarian cult with intent to foist their mental cancer on the rest of humanity. This appalling state of affairs is 'blueprinted' by Hubbard and effectuated by 'dedicated' scientologists who thinks they are helping.. So replace 'dedicated' with 'misguided'.

I don't give a flying fart about 'wins'.. They are too steeply priced. And I'm not talking about money, albeit the wins are too steeply priced in that regard too.

 

[lkwdblds]

(SNIP) "It reminds me of Mike Goldstein's story of his Book I seminars course. Diana Hubbard asked Mike to develop a grass roots Book 1 Co Audit type of course. Mike got old timer John Galusha to help him develop the course and piloted it very successsfully in the Denver area. Diana saw the results in Denver and wanted Mike and John to put on the course at Flag.

Make did so, everything went fine for a day or two and then S.O. reps started showing up to view the course. They did not like what they saw! People actually making gains and helping others to make gains while spending very little money. Without even notifying Mike, they altered his course to a more traditional C of S type of affair. High prices, dangling carrots on a stick in front of the prospects, and crush regging to move up from Book 1 auditing to other services. What happened to Mike, I believe he got comm eved. Mike just quit C of S at that point and set up his own delivery system which developed later into Idenics. I hope I have this story right - Its all from memory."


Not really accurate, Gary. But one can read the story on the ESMB Web site. The New Regime Takeover series, and Life After the CoS series, both published there, give an account of what actually occurred.

Mike Goldstein

Damn Mike, I try so hard to get it right from memory and I am always falling short, missing on accuracy. In any case, I recommend that everyone take the time and read your links posted here. Your stories are among the most informative and best written accounts of what was going on in C of S in that critical period of from say 1979, to 1983. It is a key period, involving LRH's transition out of running C of S and DM's transition into power. You point out that the Mission Holders conference in San Francisco was totally LRH driven and was his last major action taken in running C of S.

Your stories are detailed, good reads, both fast paced and entertaining and are loaded with oodles of extremely important data to those who want to understand how C of S got to be what it is today.
Gary

 

[lkwdblds]

Vintage Face returns to form!

The Missions were being KSW targeted and F’d with long before the Finance Police were created to deliver the coup de grace. I'm interested in your take on the Adams Avenue story when you have time.

Missions like Adams Avenue were the major business source for FSO services. The complete insanity of Senior SO “Management” staggered me regarding the Mission Network in the ‘70’s. I knew that the Missions were the heart and soul of the Scn “Empire” and knew what to do and how to do it re: expansion. Everything in the inner bowels of the SO was all about “Source”, KSW, “we’re right and the rest of them are wrong”, and all Scientologists are “our subjects” and all Students and PC’s “belong to us”.

When I was running Class IV Orgs there were some very simple actions I learned that really worked, I got a lot of heat for from “up lines” and, even though I had to weather near daily "fire fights", only got away with because the stats, on trend, were very healthy

1. The Missions and the Mission Holders are your friends. Help them, keep them informed, be responsive to their needs, respect them and, personally, pay attention to, and “watch out for”, their public when at the Org.

2. FSM’s are your friends. Help them, hat them, be responsive to their needs, respect them, pay attention to them and watch out for their selectee’s. A person brought in buy an FSM is 5 times more likely to sign up for indoc courses and 2.5 times as likely to resign after them.

3. The personality, energy and attitude of your Basic Course Sups are the most important factors in the size and success of your indoc course rooms.

4. Never allow recruiting of Basic Course Students. Give folks time to “settle in”, make progress, get to “know” them and vice-versa. A person that’s had some training and been around awhile makes a better staff member and sooner than a green horn. Also, FSM’s get frustrated when their selectee’s are, in essence, ripped off.

5. Build a sense of “community”. Have things like Sunday “Potluck Dinners” for staff and public with no agenda, lecture, reging or recruiting…just fellowship and fun.

6. During Basic Course Breaks all available staff, including me, were assigned to visit and 2WC with the Newbies. No sales pitches, no out-reality blabber and “Scientologeze”, etc…just visit. The staff loved it and so did the Newbies. We got to a point where often times there were more Newbies than staff. Every staff member involved turned in a brief report to me re: who they talked to and the gist of the conversation. From this list I could detect problems, “orchestrate” subsequent break chats and “guide” pathways. One example of a problem is a student we had once that said that if something worthwhile didn’t happen soon he wasn’t gonna finish the course. I was able to clue the Sup in and, sure enough, this guy was twinned with a real f’d up stoner. I called the guy's FSM and they rushed over to the Org, twinned with the guy for the rest of the night and the next night, and 4 months later that student was on the HSDC Internship. Another time my DofP turned in a report that the person they talked to was really interested in the e-meter and being and Auditor. Next night at course break I set up for the DofP to introduce the Snr C/S—not the reg—to chat with them during break. One week later the student bought an e-meter, all the books and materials and a full Academy /Internships package. This person’s FSM, who we made sure was kept abreast of things, was deliriously happy and just couldn’t wait to bring someone else to the Org. On another occasion, a person from a Mission on the Cl IV Internship originated to me that they were considering buying their Solo/SHBC Package. I knew ASHO and AO, dropped a few names and told a story or two about the “old days” (late 60’s). I then went back to my office, called the Mission Holder, who was OT 7EP, Cl VIII and told them about the conversation. We worked out that I would do the “Deal” with his public (the Msn was also the guys FSM) in my office with the Mission Holder on the phone. He wound up, without pressure and “Hard Sell” paying through OT 7 and Cl VIII with a promised job at the Mission when he was done, if he wanted. The Mission got some good goodies, we got a few small goodies, ASHO and AO got the cake and I gave the Mission the kudos. I don't know where he is today but I know that in the late '70's he was an Interned Cl VIII.

Now, I’m not making a statement here that is all pro El Ron and the “Tech”—I’ve written much on this thread and board as to where I stand on all that. My point is simply that it’s not all that hard to build a nice little Org and Field when you care about people, want for them to do well and treat them with respect—including your staff. What is hard is to do all that while being threatened, bull baited and hounded by stat pushing, desperate and clueless Senior “Management” and Gestapo “Think” Networks.

The biggest problems in running an Org, for me, were that:

A. Staff were broke, starving, exhausted (many had to moonlight to survive) and their personal life was a neglected shambles.

B. Most Staff were not getting what they were so dedicatedly protecting, selling and delivering.

C. Staff were hounded, pounded, threatened and brutalized by SO “Management” and Networks and immediate Seniors that were indoctrinated, ordered and coerced by them to do same.

And El Ron El Rey, being the sick F’er Hisself was, set it up that way and knew damn well how it was and what it was.

In the late ‘70’s it started to become obvious to me that El Ron was not “serious”; that El Ron was only pretending to play the game I thought Hisself was playing, that El Ron had said Hisself was playing; that El Ron didn't give a shit about the rest of Us. By that time I’d seen enough, been "around" enough, been at the "top” and on the "inside" long enough, and had enough information that it was obvious what needed to be done to play “long ball” and consolidate the position of “Planetary Scientology”. There was more than enough dough in SO Reserves in the late ‘70’s to design, prepare for and then call a 6 month “Stand Down”, restructure Org staffs and SO with increased compensation, improved Org quarters, facilities and equipment, realign postings, hire needed experience and talent, streamline and simplify policy, focus the energy on the "lower bridge", clean up, crash train and drill everyone, then “restart”. Nearly every Scio would have pitched in to help a project like that, and the resultant espirit de corp and pride would have "filled the sails" for a generation.

End Rant.

Face

This is Vintage Face! It's been a while since you penned one of these blockbuster posts. I could not agree more with what you said and the way you said it. You lived it while it took me years of study and reading on the internet, including reading all of your stuff, but I finally have a conceptual understanding of what happened.

IN SUMMARY Cutting through all the bullshit, there is a key LRH policy which can be applied directly to LRH, that policy being the "Supreme Test of a Thetan". Its not whether he talked a good game or wrote up some truths or whether he did various things, a few of them good and many of the them harmful even evil.

The SUPREME TEST IS DID HE MAKE THINGS GO RIGHT? The answer is obviously and unequivocally a huge and resounding "NO!!!!" That really is all that needs to be said.

It is up to us here, on this thread and in other places on the internet and in printed books to sift out the helpful parts of his tech and get them applied where and when they are applicable and helpful and jettison the rest of his teachings and writings in a manner similar to what is done in HelluvaHoax's Avatar!

 

[lkwdblds]

You put your finger on the essence, Rog, as usual.

In the SO, following in the example of LRH, brilliance MUST ONLY FLOW FROM THE TOP DOWN. Senior management gets very threatened by the idea that somebody down below might be better at actually making things go right than senior management does.

It's very threatening to insecure types, particularly people who got into management by being superior at screaming and threatening people into getting into line, rather than by having any superior ability to produce real products.

Excellent point you make and one that is not often mentioned! I think that is one of the many huge flaws in Hubbard's Green and White Management tech. Most companies have a suggestion box and willingly look at suggetions from those lower on the management lines who are actually working for their companies, down in the trenches, so to speak, of company operations.

Scientology Execs will not tolerate any suggestions from anyone down lines who comes up with a good idea. Hubbard himself, however, did on occasion accept "bright ideas" from downlines people, in fact, that was one of Hubbard's keys to success. Of course in his case, he simply took full credit for the suggestions he used and claimed they were of his own creation.

In Agnes Hadley's story, she relateds how she bought Les Dane's book, "Big League Sales Closing Techniques". When she applied the teachings of that book to her post, her stats shot up. LRH sent her a querry as to what her successful actioins were and she responded, mentioning Les Dane's book. LRH read the book and designed the Big League sales campaign and took all the credit for the whole thing.
Lakey

 

[RogerB]

I see the same old, tired arguments from the same folks about what Scn is and what Scn isn't.

And what I observe is that those in argument are talking at each other about different times, different periods of Scn development.

Yes Hubbard had his agenda, yes Hubbard lied, yes all of that shit . . . . we now know that. And we also now know what the org scene is as has come to be . . . but the scene was not always that way . . . and that is what some of the mutton-heads in this argument seem to refuse to acknowledge.

It is now well documented that Scn, as a technical endeavor, went negative in early 1963. I wrote on this on Alan's "Opening Pandora's Box" thread.

There are several aspects of this negativity. One is that Hubbard abandoned addressing your powers, abilities, goals, dreams and aspirations in April 1963 when he wrote that "all GPMs processed to date were not your own but implants." And the tech abandoned you and your powers/abilities and focused on what was affecting you and what you were effect of/suffering. It put the source and cause of your condition of existence elsewhere than with you . . . and that is a grave, grievous error . . . it posits you are not responsible, but a victim.

Additionally, as CarmelO writes, the beginning session Ruds that used to ask for the PC goals for life and livingness and for the session, were dropped (some time in '64-'65) . . . . so now the sessions were not towards what the PC wanted but instead towards what he/she was being told to have!

Prior to 1965, the predominance of folks coming in were interested in betterment as in increased knowledge and ability to perform and accomplish what they wanted in life. Scn was an interesting new look at life and the conditions of existence, and a huge departure from the status quo . . . so it attracted the adventurous and those who were willing to step outside of the box and learn something and do some good for themselves and their fellows.

A huge part of the scenario up until 1963 was that virtually all folks that came into Scn did training and learned to audit. When I was on staff in Melbourne in '62-'64 all the staff were auditors and we all co-audited, give and get, 20 hours per week.

Indeed, the first "grades" (1964 from memory, not the Grade Chart which came out originally in '65, but the original delineation of the grades) required the person be trained on the processes of the grade to qualify for receiving them.

But with the shift by Hubbard from addressing your cause and powers/abilities to focus on what's wrong with you that needs be removed, we had a vast shift in emphasis to victimhood.

You see this with the Dissem Formula when it was introduced ('65?) effectively all recruitment of newbies focused on what is wrong, what is "ruining" the person's life . . . and with this change in focus also was created the two paths of Scn . . . the PC side of the Grade Chart, and the Auditor/Training side.

So, by then, in '65 we had the victim side of the "bridge" and the more causative side of the training . . .

I spell all this out because this history of change that occurred in Scn is not something folks who came in after '65 understand. It might be ancient history to them . . . and superficially "known," but is sure as hell is not understood by them; and so we see the arguments we see.

There was a time in Scn, early Scn, when folks were honored as to their personal wants, dreams, aspirations, powers and abilities and they were given the tools (processes) and freedom to pursue them and to benefit from the application of the tech in the way that best suited them.

And we had big time, phenomenal gains and wins from it. Their was no KSW straight-jacket. Auditors honored each other and worked to help each other both is session and outside of session with discussion of the tech and advices to each other.

The early days was truly a voyage of discovery and of benefit for those who participated.

However, having said that, it is also true that the tech was incomplete . . . we knew that as we knew it was still being researched and developed. The tech, in retrospect now, can also be seen to contain some errors . . . . but one should not be too critical of that as it was a learning curve and research.

The only valid gripes any should and ought to have about it all, in my view, are these issues: a) Hubbard lied to us about so many things, b) his research methodology was so superficial, skimpy and flawed that areas addressed were routinely left incomplete or remained containing critical errors . . . and this all the while he lied to us about his competence and thoroughness and all the bullshit about him "rising above the bank."

So, what we have had as "Scn" is two distinct scenarios: one wherein we individually were and could be responsible for our actions and progress; and the other wherein you are assumed to not be responsible where in "upper management" has to control and direct you, wherein you as an auditor are not allowed to address the case you see in front of you but are told what to deal with by the system, and as a student of the subject you are not allowed the courtesy and right to "discuss" the tech in any way!

And as I have said above, these are two distinct and different times in the history and development of the entity we call "Scn."

But, I've said it before, and will do so again: the early days were FUN! And my participation in them benefited me enormously.

RogerB

 

[Ted]

I see the same old, tired arguments from the same folks about what Scn is and what Scn isn't.

And what I observe is that those in argument are talking at each other about different times, different periods of Scn development.

Yes Hubbard had his agenda, yes Hubbard lied, yes all of that shit . . . . we now know that. And we also now know what the org scene is as has come to be . . . but the scene was not always that way . . . and that is what some of the mutton-heads in this argument seem to refuse to acknowledge.

It is now well documented that Scn, as a technical endeavor, went negative in early 1963. I wrote on this on Alan's "Opening Pandora's Box" thread.

There are several aspects of this negativity. One is that Hubbard abandoned addressing your powers, abilities, goals, dreams and aspirations in April 1963 when he wrote that "all GPMs processed to date were not your own but implants." And the tech abandoned you and your powers/abilities and focused on what was affecting you and what you were effect of/suffering. It put the source and cause of your condition of existence elsewhere than with you . . . and that is a grave, grievous error . . . it posits you are not responsible, but a victim.

Additionally, as CarmelO writes, the beginning session Ruds that used to ask for the PC goals for life and livingness and for the session, were dropped (some time in '64-'65) . . . . so now the sessions were not towards what the PC wanted but instead towards what he/she was being told to have!

Prior to 1965, the predominance of folks coming in were interested in betterment as in increased knowledge and ability to perform and accomplish what they wanted in life. Scn was an interesting new look at life and the conditions of existence, and a huge departure from the status quo . . . so it attracted the adventurous and those who were willing to step outside of the box and learn something and do some good for themselves and their fellows.

A huge part of the scenario up until 1963 was that virtually all folks that came into Scn did training and learned to audit. When I was on staff in Melbourne in '62-'64 all the staff were auditors and we all co-audited, give and get, 20 hours per week.

Indeed, the first "grades" (1964 from memory, not the Grade Chart which came out originally in '65, but the original delineation of the grades) required the person be trained on the processes of the grade to qualify for receiving them.

But with the shift by Hubbard from addressing your cause and powers/abilities to focus on what's wrong with you that needs be removed, we had a vast shift in emphasis to victimhood.

You see this with the Dissem Formula when it was introduced ('65?) effectively all recruitment of newbies focused on what is wrong, what is "ruining" the person's life . . . and with this change in focus also was created the two paths of Scn . . . the PC side of the Grade Chart, and the Auditor/Training side.

So, by then, in '65 we had the victim side of the "bridge" and the more causative side of the training . . .

I spell all this out because this history of change that occurred in Scn is not something folks who came in after '65 understand. It might be ancient history to them . . . and superficially "known," but is sure as hell is not understood by them; and so we see the arguments we see.

There was a time in Scn, early Scn, when folks were honored as to their personal wants, dreams, aspirations, powers and abilities and they were given the tools (processes) and freedom to pursue them and to benefit from the application of the tech in the way that best suited them.

And we had big time, phenomenal gains and wins from it. Their was no KSW straight-jacket. Auditors honored each other and worked to help each other both is session and outside of session with discussion of the tech and advices to each other.

The early days was truly a voyage of discovery and of benefit for those who participated.

However, having said that, it is also true that the tech was incomplete . . . we knew that as we knew it was still being researched and developed. The tech, in retrospect now, can also be seen to contain some errors . . . . but one should not be too critical of that as it was a learning curve and research.

The only valid gripes any should and ought to have about it all, in my view, are these issues: a) Hubbard lied to us about so many things, b) his research methodology was so superficial, skimpy and flawed that areas addressed were routinely left incomplete or remained containing critical errors . . . and this all the while he lied to us about his competence and thoroughness and all the bullshit about him "rising above the bank."

So, what we have had as "Scn" is two distinct scenarios: one wherein we individually were and could be responsible for our actions and progress; and the other wherein you are assumed to not be responsible where in "upper management" has to control and direct you, wherein you as an auditor are not allowed to address the case you see in front of you but are told what to deal with by the system, and as a student of the subject you are not allowed the courtesy and right to "discuss" the tech in any way!

And as I have said above, these are two distinct and different times in the history and development of the entity we call "Scn."

But, I've said it before, and will do so again: the early days were FUN! And my participation in them benefited me enormously.

RogerB

Good one, Roger!

I will draw an analogy: As a kid I grew up in a dysfunctional family. I did not know it at the time. Yet, in those early years, I sure learned a lot about life and my place in it. I made friends, got schooled, played games, let my imagination run wild, and I had a lot of fun! Today, I still use and appreciate the lessons I received in grammar school on American history. God bless my fourth grade teacher.

 

[Enthetan]

On Monday October 4, 2010, 12:17 am EDT
By Nick Carey

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Predatory lending aimed at racially segregated minority neighborhoods led to mass foreclosures that fueled the U.S. housing crisis, according to a new study published in the American Sociological Review.

Predatory lending typically refers to loans that carry unreasonable fees, interest rates and payment requirements.

Poorer minority areas became a focus of these practices in the 1990s with the growth of mortgage-backed securities, which enabled lenders to pool low- and high-risk loans to sell on the secondary market, Professor Douglas Massey of the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University and PhD candidate Jacob Rugh, said in their study.

Yes, banks were making unsound loans in minority areas.

They were required by law to do so.

Between the Community Reinvestment Act, the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992, and other measures promoted by Democrats, banks were prodded to make loans to minorities and to support housing in minority areas. Failure to do so resulted in them being accused of redlining. Remember redlining? It's an illegal discriminatory practice whose existence is presumed by failure to meet quotas/"guidelines" for lending in minority communities. Banks which lent to minorities with bad credit faced losses from defaults. Banks which refused to lend to them faced regulatory problems. The losses became a cost of doing business.

The housing collapse came from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buying up sub-par loans. Any attempt to try to handle it resulted in opposition from Congress:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

follow up

As I was associated with a center that didn't believe in the SO bullshit line, and warned anyone going to LA (ASHO, AO) of what they would encounter, the auditing that was going on around my playground was focused on helping the individual PC, not cert status.

When I did the bc, I was already primed to see the history of research and development. By doing the bc, I was pretty certain that if and when I did the Vlll course, i wasn't necessarily going to be buying into it all.

I could see org products and our products. Our people weren't so robotic on any facet of Scientology.

I had read KSW lots of times, I never ever ever took it seriously. I took it to be a PR thing. I had enough verbal stories of the development of the tech, that KSW was fiction to me. I just didn't give it a thought positively or negatively.

When I started something in my living room. a comm course with 10 students first night, I started a group. My intention was to stay under the radar. I understood IMPLICITLY that the closer to Ron, the more insanity came your way. I didn't really examine this intuitive knowledge until the prices started going up 10%. When they did that for three months, it was time to leave. Too many reasons all across the Scientology spectrum to want to stay and be abused or abuse others.

That was 1976. My (future) wife and I moved in together with her kids. Her husband, who had a mission was outraged that I was "out / in bad standing" I cured the bad standing thing by spending a couple of days in LA, but didn't change the out and gone. we stuck our foot back in the water again for one week at Flag Land Base in 1979. That was enough for both of us (my wife and I). The lies and greed were palpable. We smiled and f/ned our way out the door, never to return.

We didn't "disconnect." We just faded away. Consequently our friends, remained our friends. When most of them left by 1982, they were still our friends. The ones that remain "in" are still buddies and we aren't estranged.

 

[lkwdblds]

Reply to Roger's post #7247

This extremely useful recap of how Scientology started out in a positive manner and made a major shift for the worse in 1963 has all been posted here before by Roger. To me, this story explains very well and very consistently how we come to find today's C of S in the condition it is in.

There has been additional pertinent data and a fleshing out of the framework which Roger's excellent post provides us. Face's excellent series of posts, resulting from his personal experiences seem to cover the area from the mid to late 60's forward. Ted's posts have also shed incites into this discussion, Carmelo make's some very valid points starting in the late 60's. Otto Roos gives much added data from the 60's as well. Mike Goldstein throws a lot of light on the late 70's and early 80's period, Leon has made pertinent comments.

Going back to before 1963, there are not too many sources to shed light on that period. Roger's material on that period is excellent and then there are writings by David Mayo which shed light on what was going on before 1963, Ken Urquhart supplies some valuable inputs into that period as well as does Bent Corydon's book.

There is more than enough data here for one to form a consistent conceptual picture of what happened. Roger's post provides all that is necessary to understand the phenomena and if one wants more data on it, those other sources are available as well.

In my own parlance, I would say that LRH was making it go right up to a certain point in 1963 and then he switched gears and ceased making it go right and actually layed the groundwork for things to go wrong. In summation, he still did not pass the supreme test of a thetan as I stated before.

Despite all the data available to form a comprehensive picture of what took place, some will insist that everything about Hubbard and his Church was wrong from the beginning and he never had any intent but to enslave everyone and get all their money. These people are entitled to their opinions. They believe them with conviction. In a discussion forum, everyone comes in with an opinion, contributes their opinion to the mix and then many people form a new and revised opinions which may serve as a consensus. Some people are not persuaded to change their minds while many others are. The consensus is not unanimous. There is nothing wrong with this. All is well so why beat a dead horse. 100% agreement is not a requirement for a panel discussion to have been proven successful.
Lakey

 

[Mike Goldstein]

Damn Mike, I try so hard to get it right from memory and I am always falling short, missing on accuracy. In any case, I recommend that everyone take the time and read your links posted here. Your stories are among the most informative and best written accounts of what was going on in C of S in that critical period of from say 1979, to 1983. It is a key period, involving LRH's transition out of running C of S and DM's transition into power. You point out that the Mission Holders conference in San Francisco was totally LRH driven and was his last major action taken in running C of S.

Your stories are detailed, good reads, both fast paced and entertaining and are loaded with oodles of extremely important data to those who want to understand how C of S got to be what it is today.
Gary

Thank you, Gary.

Mike

 

[Leon]

Thanks Roger and Lakey and C.O. et all.

But what you say is just not good enough for Veda. It just wont do. He is not fooled. No, Veda knows that it was all evil right fron the start and anyone who got some alleged "benefit" at any time ever (which means all of us) is just a hypnotised dupe seeking to relive past delusions.

So it's all blackl and it's all just too too too bad.

 

[Veda]

Thanks Roger and Lakey and C.O. et all.

But what you say is just not good enough for Veda. It just wont do. He is not fooled. No, Veda knows that it was all evil right fron the start and anyone who got some alleged "benefit" at any time ever (which means all of us) is just a hypnotised dupe seeking to relive past delusions.

So it's all blackl and it's all just too too too bad.

That's not what I've been saying at all.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

<snip> No, Veda knows that it was all evil right fron the start and anyone who got some alleged "benefit" at any time ever (which means all of us) is just a hypnotised dupe seeking to relive past delusions. <snip>

Well, it ain't good enough for me either. Hubbard was an asshole.. He fooled you good!

As for you being a hypnotized dupe seeking to relive past delusions while considering me, veda and a lot of other folks abberated WOG's who are restimming some electronic incident.. Or what was it you said?

Tiresome in the extreme!

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Important message!

Hey folks! - I've not bragged or made much of it.. But I'm a natural OT! -It's just not in my character to brag about such.

But.. I do feel I need to tell you this.. After all there are people here who are pretty perceptive spiritually. So as not to leave anyone in confusion.. Hmm..

Just half an hour ago I abolished unicorns! - Removed them from reality altogether. Both the flying ones and those without wings. There's a swimming one I left in place.. Of course, this was a whole track edit of reality. There will be traces left of unicorns anyway.. As in folk legends and such. But they are gone!

I realize that some of you might object. Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.. Change it back if you don't like the new reality.

However, a reality edit of this magnitude sort of spills effect all over the place, as you might imagine.. Those very spiritually perceptive of you might still recall that I was a Zeppeliner skipper of great accomplisment, wearing a spiked hat and all... The world was full of Zeppliners and I was roaming the skies.

Well, that was when a flying unicorn punctured my zeppeliner. Crazy bugger! - I crashed and burned! - I will NOT put up with shit like that!

So that was the immediate reason for deleting the silly beasts from reality... Without sorrow I might add!

Ah.. The spill effects.. The Zeppeliners went non existent too! - That pisses me off and leaves me without my preferred job, dammit!

Now I haven't really oriented myself in this new reality yet. But hells bells! - L.Ron Hubbard seems to have created quite a confounded mess! - And he's dead too!

Imagine my utter amazement.. That guy, L.Ron Hubbard was quite funny. He did a show that had us all in stitches of laughter.. Ol'e Mutha Hubbard.. He'd dress as a really outlandish fat woman and comment on just about anything... Shuck's! - At first I thought there was no reality change, when I saw Dame Edna on the telly! - I thought: Hey! There's Ol'e Mutha Hubbard.. And I got ready for a giggle.

Then I find out that he created this obscene Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology!

Shit! Half an hour ago he was Ol'e Mutha Hubbard and funny as shit!

Well, it does make me regret I did the reality edit.. Too late now.. I better not make any more reality edits.. What with all manner of freaky spilleffects!

I do realize that I inadvertently caused this royal mess.. It wasn't my intention.. I just wanted to get rid of those pesky unicorns! - All those outrageous and unnerving changes were accidental! - But I do take responsibility! - I placed myself in treason and postulated myself back in power immediatly.. A small step for a thetan, a huge leap of incredulity!

We'll just have to work together and get rid of that damned cult! - What say you? - Shall we clean up this place?

 

[Hatshepsut]

Important message!

Hey folks! - I've not bragged or made much of it.. But I'm a natural OT! -It's just not in my character to brag about such.

But.. I do feel I need to tell you this.. After all there are people here who are pretty perceptive spiritually. So as not to leave anyone in confusion.. Hmm..

Just half an hour ago I abolished unicorns! - Removed them from reality altogether. Both the flying ones and those without wings. There's a swimming one I left in place.. Of course, this was a whole track edit of reality. There will be traces left of unicorns anyway.. As in folk legends and such. But they are gone!

I realize that some of you might object. Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.. Change it back if you don't like the new reality.

However, a reality edit of this magnitude sort of spills effect all over the place, as you might imagine.. Those very spiritually perceptive of you might still recall that I was a Zeppeliner skipper of great accomplisment, wearing a spiked hat and all... The world was full of Zeppliners and I was roaming the skies.

Well, that was when a flying unicorn punctured my zeppeliner. Crazy bugger! - I crashed and burned! - I will NOT put up with shit like that!

So that was the immediate reason for deleting the silly beasts from reality... Without sorrow I might add!

Ah.. The spill effects.. The Zeppeliners went non existent too! - That pisses me off and leaves me without my preferred job, dammit!

Now I haven't really oriented myself in this new reality yet. But hells bells! - L.Ron Hubbard seems to have created quite a confounded mess! - And he's dead too!

Imagine my utter amazement.. That guy, L.Ron Hubbard was quite funny. He did a show that had us all in stitches of laughter.. Ol'e Mutha Hubbard.. He'd dress as a really outlandish fat women and comment on just about anything... Shuck's! - At first I thought there was no reality change, when I saw Dame Edna on the telly! - I thought: Hey! There's Ol'e Mutha Hubbard.. And I got ready for a giggle.

Then I find out that he created this obscene Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology!

Shit! Half an hour ago he was Ol'e Mutha Hubbard and funny as shit!

Well, it does make me regret I did the reality edit.. Too late now.. I better not make any more reality edits.. What with all manner of freaky spilleffects!

I do realize that I inadvertently caused this royal mess.. It wasn't my intention.. I just wanted to get rid of those pesky unicorns! - All those outrageous and unnerving changes were accidental! - But I do take responsibility! - I placed myself in treason and postulated myself back in power immediatly.. A small step for a thetan, a huge leap of incredulity!

We'll just have to work together and get rid of that damned cult! - What say you? - Shall we clean up this place?

This don't sound like YOU. Unicorns are not male territory.

Somebody edited them out long ago. Now they exist only in the bedrooms of little girls.

Just don't go trying to edit My Little Pony from the track. The ramifications of THAT one could be REALLY disastrous.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

<snip> Somebody edited them out long ago. Now they exist only in the bedrooms of little girls. <snip>

Well, that's how it looks when a whole track edit is done! - I just TOLD you I did it.. Welll, an hour ago by now.. I'm still discovering upsetting changes! - The winds of change washing up the timestream like a temporal tsunami!

Looks like the unicorns were replaced with warthogs BtW.. My grandaddy rode a magnifiscent white unicorn to fetch my grandmother for their wedding. Erhm.. That changed.. Now he was run over by an irate warthog and died horribly.. That was a close call! - The grandfather paradox! - A deadly risk in any temporal operations! - Luckily he already did the naugty deed with my grandmother.. But of course she languished as an unmarried slut with an illegitimate brat of a son who grew up to be one of the worlds most accomplished womanizers.. So that I'm his son is no surprize.. There's a bloody lot of people who's his kids! - I think it was us who voted Reagan into office!

I do understand that you miss the unicorns.. But they were a menace to air traffic over rural as well as other areas! And in weather unfit for man or dog! - Good riddance!

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Important message!

Hey folks! - I've not bragged or made much of it.. But I'm a natural OT! -It's just not in my character to brag about such.

But.. I do feel I need to tell you this.. After all there are people here who are pretty perceptive spiritually. So as not to leave anyone in confusion.. Hmm..

Just half an hour ago I abolished unicorns! - Removed them from reality altogether. Both the flying ones and those without wings. There's a swimming one I left in place.. Of course, this was a whole track edit of reality. There will be traces left of unicorns anyway.. As in folk legends and such. But they are gone!

I realize that some of you might object. Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.. Change it back if you don't like the new reality.

However, a reality edit of this magnitude sort of spills effect all over the place, as you might imagine.. Those very spiritually perceptive of you might still recall that I was a Zeppeliner skipper of great accomplisment, wearing a spiked hat and all... The world was full of Zeppliners and I was roaming the skies.

Well, that was when a flying unicorn punctured my zeppeliner. Crazy bugger! - I crashed and burned! - I will NOT put up with shit like that!

So that was the immediate reason for deleting the silly beasts from reality... Without sorrow I might add!

Ah.. The spill effects.. The Zeppeliners went non existent too! - That pisses me off and leaves me without my preferred job, dammit!

Now I haven't really oriented myself in this new reality yet. But hells bells! - L.Ron Hubbard seems to have created quite a confounded mess! - And he's dead too!

Imagine my utter amazement.. That guy, L.Ron Hubbard was quite funny. He did a show that had us all in stitches of laughter.. Ol'e Mutha Hubbard.. He'd dress as a really outlandish fat woman and comment on just about anything... Shuck's! - At first I thought there was no reality change, when I saw Dame Edna on the telly! - I thought: Hey! There's Ol'e Mutha Hubbard.. And I got ready for a giggle.

Then I find out that he created this obscene Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology!

Shit! Half an hour ago he was Ol'e Mutha Hubbard and funny as shit!

Well, it does make me regret I did the reality edit.. Too late now.. I better not make any more reality edits.. What with all manner of freaky spilleffects!

I do realize that I inadvertently caused this royal mess.. It wasn't my intention.. I just wanted to get rid of those pesky unicorns! - All those outrageous and unnerving changes were accidental! - But I do take responsibility! - I placed myself in treason and postulated myself back in power immediatly.. A small step for a thetan, a huge leap of incredulity!

We'll just have to work together and get rid of that damned cult! - What say you? - Shall we clean up this place?

Wow…and I been thinkin' you was just a jumbo preserved cucumber when, in reality, you was a big legume all along.

Face

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Victory!

Important message!

Hey folks! - I've not bragged or made much of it.. But I'm a natural OT! -It's just not in my character to brag about such.

...snip...(ne neither, Schwimmy)

We'll just have to work together and get rid of that damned cult! - What say you? - Shall we clean up this place?

Consider it a "DONE"! (besides, I still had the vid in the buffer)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCbfA2490OM

EP