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lkwdblds

Crusader
Carmelo, it was you that lead me to do these things!

I think the era of cookie cutter tech has seen its demise.

I think the "new" tech will be asking the right question(s) based on psychic input.

Largely, it is what I do.

Carmelo, it was you who showed me the way as far as breaking away from "standard tech". You mentioned that you audited over the phone, did not use a meter, had no C/S or examiner and kept very minimal admin. You mentioned that you were results oriented and that you were getting excellent results. Also, you did not audit on a rigid gradient on a grade chart basis.

This occurred back around August and after reading you articles on this subject, I decided to take the plunge and do this type of thing myself. I have had wins doing this type of auditing and I thank you for being the one who made me think that I could ever do such a thing as audit this way and get a decent result.
Lakey
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
The Wild side of Candy

I went to a pottery show at Joan's house with Candy and a friend of mine named Ed. Johnny was there and Edey and her new boyfriend, Mike, drove up as well. Candy took at least 2 dozen pictures of the event with her new camera and will post them all on Facebook.

Afterwards, Candy, Ed and I went for dinner and dancing at a Cuban restuaurant on Fountain Ave. in Hollywood.

Ed and I met Candy in Studio City a and she was wearing her work clothes. She followed us up to Joan's in her own car. After the pottery event, she followed us to the restaurant in Hollywood. She brought a change of clothes in her trunk and changed into evening attire.

The entire day, Candy had an amazingly high energy level which culminated at the supper and dance club. By the way, at a coffee shop in Studio City, I gave Candy one of my neck, head and back massages and she thought it was very good and it eased some stress which she had experienced earlier in the day.

Candy needed to dance that day to fully handle the aforementioned stress from earlier in the day. She just really goes wild on the dance floor. Both Ed and yours truly, danced with her and she was in a really fired up and sexy mood and it was amazing to interact with her at this level. This is the Candy of the early Sea Org days of the late 60's and early 70's only now she is even more evolved and wise and has even more energy. What a trip it was for me and Ed to be with her when she is in this "wild" mood of hers!!
Lakey
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
I went to a pottery show at Joan's house with Candy and a friend of mine named Ed. Johnny was there and Edey and her new boyfriend, Mike, drove up as well. Candy took at least 2 dozen pictures of the event with her new camera and will post them all on Facebook.

Afterwards, Candy, Ed and I went for dinner and dancing at a Cuban restuaurant on Fountain Ave. in Hollywood.

Ed and I met Candy in Studio City a and she was wearing her work clothes. She followed us up to Joan's in her own car. After the pottery event, she followed us to the restaurant in Hollywood. She brought a change of clothes in her trunk and changed into evening attire.

The entire day, Candy had an amazingly high energy level which culminated at the supper and dance club. By the way, at a coffee shop in Studio City, I gave Candy one of my neck, head and back massages and she thought it was very good and it eased some stress which she had experienced earlier in the day.

Candy needed to dance that day to fully handle the aforementioned stress from earlier in the day. She just really goes wild on the dance floor. Both Ed and yours truly, danced with her and she was in a really fired up and sexy mood and it was amazing to interact with her at this level. This is the Candy of the early Sea Org days of the late 60's and early 70's only now she is even more evolved and wise and has even more energy. What a trip it was for me and Ed to be with her when she is in this "wild" mood of hers!!
Lakey

Hm. She got a massage and dancing without having to have sex. Smart girl.
 
Another fine essay from Jeff Hawkins blog!

Written by Jeff Hawkins recently on his blog:

"Bad Apples or Bad Barrels?
November 21, 2010
tags: David Miscavige, Leaving Scientology, Phil Zimbardo, Scientology, The Lucifer Effect
by Jeff

I’m reading a fascinating book: The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil by Phil Zimbardo, the Stanford professor who conducted the famous Stanford Prison Experiment in 1971. A good one to add to your reading list.

In this experiment, he took a group of college boys, carefully tested them to ensure there was no sign of mental illness, sociopathy or sadism, then randomly assigned them to play the roles of guards and prisoners in a mock prison set up in the basement of Stanford’s Jordan Hall. After just days, the experiment spiraled out of control, with the guards ultimately submitting the prisoners to sadistic abuse far beyond the needs of role playing, and the prisoners descending into very real depression and apathy. In The Lucifer Effect, Zimbardo describes the experiment in detail, correlating it with much later research by himself and others, including his work with Abu Ghraib prison guards.

Of course, as I was reading the book, my mind went to my own experiences at the Int Base, which were eerily similar to the abuses, degradation and mind games carried out by the SPE “guards.”

Zimbardo talks about what he refers to as the “bad apple – bad barrel” question. Are evil acts the sole result of “bad apples” – individuals who are simply, by nature, evil – or are there also situational and systemic factors – “bad barrels” – that can cause even good, decent people to carry out, support or tolerate evil acts?

It’s an interesting question. Most institutions – law, medicine, psychology, even religion – focus on an individualistic orientation. When bad things happen, it’s because of bad people, period. In history, we tend to focus on the one evil individual who was responsible for everything bad that happened – a Saddam Hussein, a Stalin, a Hitler. Hitler, for instance, was responsible for the Holocaust as we all know.

Really?

No – it took a huge propaganda machine to turn the German people against their Jewish neighbors. There were books that had to be written, pamphlets circulated, newspapers and magazines about the Jewish “problem” and what to do about it. Jews had to be transported and guarded. Huge prison compounds and extermination chambers had to be built. Poisons had to be developed and manufactured. And one guy did all this? No, there was something else, systemic factors that caused normal, everyday German people to support, tolerate and even commit acts of unspeakable evil.

There’s a quote I love from Alexandr Solzhenitsyn, describing his own prison experience in Gulag Archipelago. He writes: “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not between states nor between social classes nor between political parties, but right through every human heart, through all human hearts.”

This resonates with me as I saw a lot of abuse and cruelty at the Int Base, some of it carried out by people I knew to be basically good, moral, decent people. And it raises the question, why?

I get frustrated when I hear “it’s all David Miscavige.” Sure, the man is a dangerous sociopath, I of all people know that, having worked with him “up close and personal.” But there are a couple of things wrong with this “it’s all Miscavige” theory.

First, Hubbard himself would reject it as a Why, per his own Data Series criteria, for two reasons. One, it’s not a Why, it’s a Who. And two, it can be “how comed.” As in “How come one individual can corrupt the entirety of Scientology, tens of thousands of people, including highly trained auditors, OTs and Sea Org veterans, all of whom have at their command what Scientology promotes as the most advanced technology of the human mind and life, including PTS/SP technology?” Well, that’s a good question. A proper Why would answer it. And it’s not “he’s an SP.” What, that gives him super-powers? (See my last post)

Another problem I have with the “it’s all Miscavige” theory is that I personally observed systemic abuse within Scientology as early as 1968. Miscavige was eight years old. Want some examples? Read my book, Counterfeit Dreams.

And this isn’t an invitation for some rant – “see, it’s not Miscavige – it’s all Hubbard’s fault!” That’s just another Who, isn’t it?

We’re not looking to lay blame. We’re not searching for more Whos. Why don’t we look and see if we can find some situational or systemic factors which tend to make Scientologists, staff, or Sea Org Members tolerate, support or even carry out evil, abusive acts?

Zimbardo points out that defenders of the System (whatever System it may be) tend to divert attention away from an inspection of the System. He encountered this when looking into the abuses at Abu Ghraib. The US military, of course, insisted there was nothing wrong with the military system, the prison, or the procedures. All the abuses were only due to “a few bad apples.” Nothing to see here, keep moving…

Defenders of Scientology, similarly, are hesitant to inspect the System. “There is nothing wrong with the Scientology system,” they might insist. “It’s all David Miscavige.” That’s too bad, because if anyone is serious about reforming Scientology, they should be very, very curious about the real reasons (the real Why, if you will) for Scientology’s systemic problems, and how they can be avoided in future.

What do I mean by systemic problems? Well, two of the factors Zimbardo talks about in his book, factors that encourage people to be abusive to others, are deindividuation and dehumanization. A person who puts on a guard uniform and reflective sunglasses, as in the Stanford Prison Experiment, becomes less of an individual. A man who puts on a guard uniform at Abu Ghraib undergoes the same transformation. He is in a different world with different rules. He is not himself, he is a “guard.”

Well, what about a person who puts on a Sea Org uniform at the Int Base, told they are to “penalize downstats”? Or a person who is given a baton, told he is the “Master-at-Arms,” and told that his job is to “find and eliminate counter-intention.”

And dehumanization. During the Stanford Prison Experiment, the prisoners were all given filthy smocks with numbers sewn on the front, and forced to live in degraded conditions. The guards referred to them as “dogs.” At Abu Ghraib, the prisoners were “towel-heads,” “arab dogs” or worse. It’s “okay” to abuse those who are lesser beings.

Well, how about “downstats”? How about “CI” people? Sure, if someone is labeled “downstat” or “CI” it’s OK to harass, punish and abuse them, make them “do laps,” or scrub out dumpsters or clean out a septic pond. It’s OK to throw them in the harbor or in the lake, or even to shove them, punch them, or knock them down.

Would these people act this way at home, with their families, or in the communities where they grew up? Probably not. But immersed in a new world with new rules, and given a role to play, they do.

And I can hear all the objections now. “That’s not what Hubbard intended! It’s not what he wrote! It’s a misapplication…”

Well, when virtually every Scientology Org I ever worked in, from 1968 to 2005, was plagued with this kind of abuse to a greater or lesser degree, it’s hard to argue that it’s not systemic.

Here’s an interesting Wall Street Journal Article about an attempt to implement Hubbard’s Admin Tech in the Allstate Insurance Company in the late 1980s, early 1990s. Does this sound familiar?

“Allstate employees who took the classes say an important, although hardly exclusive, theme of the training was an uncompromising commitment to the bottom line — even if that meant treating poor performers harshly. The course materials warned managers never to be sympathetic to someone whose productivity numbers, or ‘statistics,’ were down…”

“Workers with declining production had to be investigated immediately, the course taught. ‘A person with low statistics not only has no ethics protection but tends to be hounded,’ the training manual said…”

“‘It allowed management by intimidation. It was vindictive — a way to try to remove people,’ Mr. Richardson says. ‘We would harass agents by calling them constantly and visiting them repeatedly…’”

“Across the country, a number of agents were making complaints similar to those voiced in Arizona. Lawsuits and Equal Employment Opportunity Commission complaints were proliferating; more than two dozen have alleged fraud, harassment or discrimination by Allstate, often in connection with wrongful-discharge cases. One manager joked about forcing so many to quit that they would have to bring in ‘body bags’ to cart them away, while others described agents with low productivity as below the ‘scum line,’ workers said in pretrial statements related to these lawsuits.”

A few bad apples? Or a bad barrel?"

-end-

This is me speaking: I have seem some vids and other commentary on Dr. Zimbardo's work on youtube, or elsewhere. Can anyone find them and post them here? This is important research to understand, from a humane perspective that we all, as humans, even those of us who see ourselves as motivated by "greater good", seem to be capable of doing quite a bit of harm to our fellow mankind, given the right circumstances.
 
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purple haze

Patron with Honors
new tech evolvement

I think the era of cookie cutter tech has seen its demise.

I think the "new" tech will be asking the right question(s) based on psychic input.

Largely, it is what I do.

to add: :thumbsup:the female element: I work with the person in front of me, with what they're interested in working on, using intuition for a large part, to create the safe space necessary to work miracles in, to produce a valid result. No 'feel good' therapy going on here. Nose to the grindstone, in other words. :coolwink:
 

purple haze

Patron with Honors
Jeff Hawkins excerpt

Bad Apples or Bad Barrels?
November 21, 2010
tags: David Miscavige, Leaving Scientology, Phil Zimbardo, Scientology, The Lucifer Effect
by Jeff

I’m reading a fascinating book: The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil by Phil Zimbardo, the Stanford professor who conducted the famous Stanford Prison Experiment in 1971. A good one to add to your reading list.



This is me speaking: I have seem some vids and other commentary on Dr. Zimbardo's work on youtube, or elsewhere. Can anyone find them and post them here? This is important research to understand, from a humane perspective that we all, as humans, even those of us who see ourselves as motivated by "greater good", seem to be capable of doing quite a bit of harm to our fellow mankind, given the right circumstances.

AMEN!:wink2:
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Getting my Act Together

Many of you have been complaining that I am not discrete enough and have a strong tendency to blab too much and reveal confidential informatiion on ESMB. I also fixate on stats and always want myself and this thread which I started to be number one in the rankngs.

Judging by the many Personal Messages which I have received, many people have objected to and taken offense at my lack of discretion. I finally decided to really do something about this and have hired a coach to break me of this habit.

REASONS FOR MY TENDENCY TO BLAB TOO MUCH

I feel that some of my reasons are physiological. I am going to be 71 years of age in two weeks. I take seven powerful prescription drugs daily, a pill for cholesterol, a diuretic, a blood thinner and 4 types of high blood pressure medications. These drugs are powerful and and the combination is a lot for my body and brain to deal with and they do tend to alter my perception of reality.

Next, I try and impress others with how good my long term memory is so I relate many minute details about the past, mainly to impress people. Actually some of these details I relate are either made up or are dub ins. I tend to embellish my stories and figure that no one will notice and even if they do, who can prove me wrong.

I am trying to get a writing job and am using this thread as my launching pad. That is one reason I am so obsessed with high ratings.

The final reason is that I just have a tendency to be a gossip.

So there you have it, I have come clean with the board and by doing this, I hope to clean my communication lines with all you readers and to finally get control over my compulsion to embellish and dub in things in my posts.
Lakey aka Gary Hart
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
Thanks, T.

Tim was/is a bit of a moronic idiot. It figures he'd get nailed for something or other.

Sue, his wife was HCO Exec Sec in '67-'69 or so. Very long blond headed girl, also a mutton-head who didn't have the balls to actually follow policy, but only wanted to look good. It was these two who killed our working Pub Divs . . . with the help of Paul SS who was Eth Officer Fdn in '67-'68.

R

Interesting. When I was E/O from above the PES often enlisted my help
to smooth the path to those coming to div 6. The GO of course were more
involved with security and would often overide div 6 efforts. One case, I was doing a very successfull PTS type 1 handling [ I believe 10 aug HCOPL]
and the GO ordered me to stop as they were worried her husband would sue the church. She was of course PTS to hubbie. I was using the bring to
gentle cause gradient and her stomach pains were diminishing.

Anyway the PES found a BTL which used an LRH quote of not using A-J checks or anything else to stop flow lines to div 6. The GO of course wanted to give EVERYONE A-J checks. That quote worked for my duration of
staff.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I think the era of cookie cutter tech has seen its demise.

I think the "new" tech will be asking the right question(s) based on psychic input.

Largely, it is what I do.

Thats a high level of mastery. Don't think many can do that. The
cookie cutter approach actually works. May not be as smooth and quick
as from a master, probably a long way from, but with a good C/S
gains and EPs can be reached.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
I would tend to agree.

Thats a high level of mastery. Don't think many can do that. The
cookie cutter approach actually works. May not be as smooth and quick
as from a master, probably a long way from, but with a good C/S
gains and EPs can be reached.

Not everyone has a the conceptual understanding of what is going on in a session to do what Carmelo does. My guess is that a few do and most do not. The Cookie Cutter approach is not all bad and has its place. Carmelo's approach also has its place and that is the big news. The C of S labels everything not done DM's way squirrel tech and that is simply not true.

If one looks at what LRH did and not what he said, as in the policy, "Look, don't listen" LRH did not allow the Cookie Cutter approach to be run on himself but rather, he used more of Carmelo's approach. I rest my case.
Lakey
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Not everyone has a the conceptual understanding of what is going on in a session to do what Carmelo does. My guess is that a few do and most do not. The Cookie Cutter approach is not all bad and has its place. Carmelo's approach also has its place and that is the big news. The C of S labels everything not done DM's way squirrel tech and that is simply not true.

If one looks at what LRH did and not what he said, as in the policy, "Look, don't listen" LRH did not allow the Cookie Cutter approach to be run on himself but rather, he used more of Carmelo's approach. I rest my case.
Lakey

Best I know LRH did allow the " cookie cutter approach re himself."
After all it was his creation.

LRH spent about 30 years trying to improve his "cookie cutter approach".

I think that was a wonderful effort. And lets face it, its a very complicated and all embracive cookie cutter approach.

Within scn and offshoots there is a vague pattern that the real experts
did their apprenticeships and spent long hours of study etc. There is a
LOT to study.

Ideally, and per LRH one should make it their own. Once that is done one
may look at LRHs early dictum re " Milestone 1" " Go on up the line and you will then become free of me and free of scientology".

I have met many old timers, and corresponded with many more, and spoke by phone or skype. Seems to me that they make the tech their own, and in some ways violate what is considered standard tech. Because they are free. Ed is an excellent example. I know from his help of friends of mine, where he resolved a lost situation brilliantly. Phil Spickler is another who audited one I referred to him to .... well lets say something like nirvana, and having met him was an extremely joyful experience, and he told me some stories of REALLY out tech stuff that worked a bomb. Candy told me some of her successes, not in forms that I could publish. But very willing to do so. [hint]
Trey Lotz is very " Standard tech", and yet he gave me a coffee shop admin scale at a party while I was drinking beer. :) Ed described him as who he wants to be when he grows up. :)

These I mention as I have met them. I should also mention Ted, who I havn't met but been aquainted with for a decade on the net, who is a fount of wisdom, and another of those" best auditors in the world".
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
If you guys stepped out of Hubbard tech and learned what other professional operations were going on, learned the physical sciences, learned to even know what you are really doing with people, you might be right about "old timers". But as it is the tech is too tight, the field too narrow, the understandings too glib for me to have much faith in. You don't listen, folks.
That is a familiar and deadly signature of all Hubbard affiliates.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Best I know LRH did allow the " cookie cutter approach re himself."
After all it was his creation.

LRH spent about 30 years trying to improve his "cookie cutter approach".

Have you read the Otto Roos story? You can't read that and then believe that LRH used the cookie cutter approach on himself. Of course, in the beginning, their was no cookie cutter Grade Chart and LRH had to improvise. He chose runing his own case and assuming everyone else shared his case structure and major incidents with him.

According to Roos and others, LRH's own case was a mess of wrong items, out lists, even unhandled rock slams. Roos spearheaded a move by the top Class XII's of his day to FES LRH's folders and clean up all the outpoints in them. LRH's reaction was to off load Roos but not before punching him in his face, a la DM. As is often said, LRH founded Scientology but was not a Scientologist himself. He did not follow most of the rules which he set down for others to obey including rules on how people's cases should be run.

I think that was a wonderful effort. And lets face it, its a very complicated and all embracive cookie cutter approach.

Within scn and offshoots there is a vague pattern that the real experts
did their apprenticeships and spent long hours of study etc. There is a
LOT to study.

Ideally, and per LRH one should make it their own. Once that is done one
may look at LRHs early dictum re " Milestone 1" " Go on up the line and you will then become free of me and free of scientology".

I have met many old timers, and corresponded with many more, and spoke by phone or skype. Seems to me that they make the tech their own, and in some ways violate what is considered standard tech. Because they are free. Ed is an excellent example. I know from his help of friends of mine, where he resolved a lost situation brilliantly. Phil Spickler is another who audited one I referred to him to .... well lets say something like nirvana, and having met him was an extremely joyful experience, and he told me some stories of REALLY out tech stuff that worked a bomb. Candy told me some of her successes, not in forms that I could publish. But very willing to do so. [hint]
Trey Lotz is very " Standard tech", and yet he gave me a coffee shop admin scale at a party while I was drinking beer. :) Ed described him as who he wants to be when he grows up. :)

These I mention as I have met them. I should also mention Ted, who I havn't met but been aquainted with for a decade on the net, who is a fount of wisdom, and another of those" best auditors in the world".

I like your post very much except for your opinion that LRH ran standard Scientology tech on his own case. Of course when one develops a technology from scratch it is impossible to use tech which does not yet exist. However, once the tech was established, he never ran bridge actions on himself, in the order they appeared on the bridege, at least not to my knowledge.
Lakey
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Looks a bit like Sweetness's "Bad Apples or Bad Barrels" ost is being sidelined a bit here. It is an important issue and I hope it will get more recognition than it has so far.

My own take on it for many years has been that the entire stats game was a lunacy right from the start. I well remember the arguments I'd get into when a senior complained that I didn't audit enough hours or my sessions were not long enough etc and I'd throw back at them that I don't audit stats - I audit people and it is their wins and gains that I aim towards and not Org stats.

One of the other things wrong with stats is that whereas they were supposed to present an integrated whole, in fact they were very individualised. With each person only going for his or her stat quality just went out the window in a rush. Bullshit letters from the letter reg, students made to do more TRs because it gave the super higher stats, completions of people still riddled with MUs, reg sign-ups of people who should never even be on lines . . the list is endless. All because each person only cares only about his/her own stat and gives not a damn about anything that happens down the line. The stat is VASTLY more important than the public we are serving.

I could go on ranting all evening. Enough now.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
If you guys stepped out of Hubbard tech and learned what other professional operations were going on, learned the physical sciences, learned to even know what you are really doing with people, you might be right about "old timers". But as it is the tech is too tight, the field too narrow, the understandings too glib for me to have much faith in. You don't listen, folks.
That is a familiar and deadly signature of all Hubbard affiliates.

No kidding! :D
 
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