ESMB Poster "David Mayo"
- Thread starter Dulloldfart
- Start date
uniquemand
Unbeliever
I disagree. While coded knowledge can exist independently of the being, it ceases to be knowledge until such time as it is decoded.
Gadfly
Crusader
Well, from the viewpoint of a being (the observer) and "enlightenment", what matters is "being" and NOT "knowledge". The "being" involves the "observer", and "knowledge" involves the "observed".
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Vinaire
Sponsor
Chuck, yes, if one needed to approach "reforming the CoS" by using it's existing policies/rules, then I guess what you suggest could work. But as you state ...
I think about 10-20% of the policies do about 99% of the damage to Scientology. Change or cancel those 20%, and the organization could be made sane and workable imo.
But as you (and so many others) say, the organization needs a sane, benevolent leadership for any of it to work. And I would add to that "experienced, competent and representative of the membership".
Caliwog
Patron Meritorious
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
Probably doesn't matter but it really is he.
Gadfly
Crusader
Yes, it does make a sound even if nobody is there to hear it!
That is known as the sound of one hand clapping.
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Veda
Sponsor
It might be very surprising how many people would return if the Miscavige regime were gone, and a new "friendly" management were to replace it. Phony "reforms" such as the "Reform Code of 1968," which "abolished Security Checking, Disconnection, and Fair Game," could be announced. Scientology's image could be rehabilitated. And then "Hubbard Guidance" could be provided with no unseemly PR flaps.
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I agree. I think the number is larger than anyone realises.
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
Yes, Ems and Veda, I do think there're quite a few who'd go back.
The more doctrinaire FreeZoners would, I'm sure.
Plus, you always get the cultie thing where Leader A can be in charge on a Monday, is defended by the culties no matter what he does, Tuesday, a coup and Leader B takes over and slams Leader A and those same people are all like "I knew it all along", then, if on Wednesday, Leader A came back and retook the throne, as it were, those same people would be backing him.
The more doctrinaire FreeZoners would, I'm sure.
Plus, you always get the cultie thing where Leader A can be in charge on a Monday, is defended by the culties no matter what he does, Tuesday, a coup and Leader B takes over and slams Leader A and those same people are all like "I knew it all along", then, if on Wednesday, Leader A came back and retook the throne, as it were, those same people would be backing him.
Gadfly
Crusader
It might be very suprising how many people would return if the Miscavige regime were gone, and a new "friendly" management were to replace it. Phony "reforms" such as the "Reform Code of 1968," which "abolished Security Checking, Disconnection, and Fair Game," could be announced. Scientology's image could be rehabilitated. And then "Hubbard Guidance" could be provided with no unseemly PR flaps.
It is sad but true. The problem is that most likely, or even most certainly, it would ONCE AGAIN BE ALL PR (with little substance).
It would be just another example of a strict application of the PR Series, in alignment with the KSW notion that "only we are able to save the universe" and thus whatever we do is justified because "we are the good guys".
It would be more grand posturing, misrepresentation, lies, and deception. The same old standard Scientology use of "put out the mockup and get others to agree" (despite the actual TRUTH).
And, really, as Pete Townsend so well stated, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
I think that what always happens in these cases is that the people WANT IT TO BE TRUE, and they WANT TO BELIEVE (the lies). So they do.
Ones own HOPES & DREAMS trap them once again, by aligning these lofty visions with some lying scheming scumbag who is only too happy to mislead you.
Sad.
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SchwimmelPuckel
Genuine Meatball
Is what I'm incessantly yelling about.. The 'Revolution'..It might be very suprising how many people would return if the Miscavige regime were gone, and a new "friendly" management were to replace it. Phony "reforms" such as the "Reform Code of 1968," which "abolished Security Checking, Disconnection, and Fair Game," could be announced. Scientology's image could be rehabilitated. And then "Hubbard Guidance" could be provided with no unseemly PR flaps.
Only a 'Revolution', a real one or 'perceived as such' will do it. Convince the former disenchanted scilons that there really has been a change.
Maybe Mr.Rathbun can explain it?
I don't care anyhow.. A reborn Scientology will devolve into precisely the totalitarian cesspool that it is now. That much is actually very clear from reading Hubbard's original texts.
The only thing about Scientology that turned out 'wrong' is that the 'unsatisfied customers' stopped being intimidated and got to talking.. And that's largely attributable to the internet.
And I hope that the internet will throttle any newborn 'Scientology'!
Is what I'm incessantly yelling about.. The 'Revolution'..
Only a 'Revolution', a real one or 'perceived as such' will do it. Convince the former disenchanted scilons that there really has been a change.
Maybe Mr.Rathbun can explain it?
I don't care anyhow.. A reborn Scientology will devolve into precisely the totalitarian cesspool that it is now. That much is actually very clear from reading Hubbard's original texts.
The only thing about Scientology that turned out 'wrong' is that the 'unsatisfied customers' stopped being intimidated and got to talking.. And that's largely attributable to the internet.
And I hope that the internet will throttle any newborn 'Scientology'!
Yeah the internet has killed Scientology. The only question remaining is "how long until the burial"
If 100s of exes did return to Scientology under "new management" it wouldn't take them long to realise that "the new boss is the same as the old boss" and they'd be out of there. It wouldn't be the long drawn out saga it was for many exes leaving the first time. As Free to Shine said in an earlier post "what has been seen cannot be unseen".
If on the other hand, Rathbun & Co REALLY have learned a valuable lesson and did offer an abuse free Scientology (for real) no matter how impossible that seems to most of us, then it wouldn't bother me too much. If people are that desperate to talk to their space cooties then who am I to judge?
freet43
Patron with Honors
Julie, I am so very happy to see that you and David are thriving.
I don't get a chance to go on this board much any more, but I do just for moments as this. It is wonderful to find old friends (and new ones too) - and especially wonderful, when they are doing well.
Marina
I don't get a chance to go on this board much any more, but I do just for moments as this. It is wonderful to find old friends (and new ones too) - and especially wonderful, when they are doing well.
Marina
Auditor's Toad
Clear as Mud
I , and most of the people I know who "left", feel pretty much the way I do about going "back"
I knew before I walked out ( and got kicked for the last few steps - LOL ! ) that if they would audit and train me back up to where I was at their expense, pay for the ammos, airfare, and pay me $100,000 year while doing it that I'd turn it down flat.
There comes a time to move on.
Hell, if I thought it worked I'd still be there suffering through whatever to get it. It doesn't work.
Next,
I knew before I walked out ( and got kicked for the last few steps - LOL ! ) that if they would audit and train me back up to where I was at their expense, pay for the ammos, airfare, and pay me $100,000 year while doing it that I'd turn it down flat.
There comes a time to move on.
Hell, if I thought it worked I'd still be there suffering through whatever to get it. It doesn't work.
Next,
Exactly. I wish it did, but it doesn't. I know it doesn't and I can't unknow it.
Veda
Sponsor
Is what I'm incessantly yelling about.. The 'Revolution'..
Only a 'Revolution', a real one or 'perceived as such' will do it. Convince the former disenchanted scilons that there really has been a change.
Maybe Mr.Rathbun can explain it?
I don't care anyhow.. A reborn Scientology will devolve into precisely the totalitarian cesspool that it is now. That much is actually very clear from reading Hubbard's original texts.
The only thing about Scientology that turned out 'wrong' is that the 'unsatisfied customers' stopped being intimidated and got to talking.. And that's largely attributable to the internet.
And I hope that the internet will throttle any newborn 'Scientology'!
There are plenty of "unsatisfied customers" who are not talking. They're not active in Scientology anymore, but they're not ex-Scientologists. They feel vaguely guilty about not being "on lines," try to avoid phone calls from the Scientology Org, and don't pay much attention to what's said about Scientology in non-Scientology books and on the Internet. They are the great silent majority of Scientology, who worry about "having a bad eternity," and they still "want their Bridge." And they want it at an Org with a picture of Hubbard on the wall. They just don't want to be sucked dry of every penny and they don't want to be yelled at.
This is the untapped - largely Internet immune - market that some outside the CofS Scientologists (and probably some inside the CofS persons also) have envisioned as returning to the new Scientology fold, if Scientology were "marketed properly."
I'm not being a pessimist, just noting that these folks exist.
Caliwog
Patron Meritorious
I keep trying to adopt that attitude but I am never 100% successful. I feel like the woman Harry Chapin is talking about in "She Is Always Seventeen," specifically at the end of the song - "1975, when the crooked king was gone, she was feeding starving children, saying 'The dream must go on!'"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YkO_De-cKs
ML,
Caliwog
http://caliwog.wordpress.com
Thrak
Gold Meritorious Patron
I've had this discussion here before but IMHO scn can't survive as it is and be honest. It has this enormous empire that requires slave labor, coercion and massive lying just to pay the bills. Sure they have a lot in the bank, but there is no way they can come clean and stay anything like what they are.
So to me it doesn't seem like anyone can save the current model on scn. Whatever happens it's just a matter of how long the money holds out.