The Mayo Challenge

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

Yeah, I was going to mention the registrar thing too.

I failed horribly as a registrar because I could not comfortably sit there and initiate all the control games necessary to take large amounts of other people's money. People who can and do THAT are VERY weird to me. They are the most INTENSE and SEVERE of KSW and HARD SELL.

To me, regges (and recruiters) display the most exgaerrated forms of Scientology lunacy.

I couldn't last more than a few years in the Sea Org, because I saw far too much IDIOCY. How can and does one stay a reg for 17 years? To me, it takes a great deal of self-denial and refusal to confront simple facts.

That job involves controlling person after person to come in and DO SERVICES. That job involves taking the money that allows Scientology to keep "doing its job" and even "expanding".

I guess that I never bought into the whole dedication thing and "we are freeing beings for all time" BS, at least not enough to succeed on a post involving taking other people's money. It seems to me that one must REALLY drink heavily of the kool-aid to stay on successfully as a recruiter or reg for the Church of Scientology.

Or maybe just like and enjoy the reg commissions (simple greed).

+++++++++++++

Some generalities there - but basically true.

The only part of this I'll add to is on the commissions.

There were no reg commissions - that's a misnomer. There were (and are) FSM commissions - paid only to public, not staff. And there were book commissions - paid equally to FSMs or staff. Book commissions varied from 5% - 15%. Different times and different stresses within the Church would change this back and forth.

No staff I knew were getting rich on those book commisisons. It sometimes amounted to having a fast car, a nice watch, some better clothes, ability to purchase more better food.

Usually, having the book commisisons was the difference between having to go get a moonlight job or having the joy of being on post ALL THE TIME.

The basic staff problems were the same - not getting on course, bad teeth, no health care, abandonment of children, etc.

Not much greed there, eh?

 

[justsayin']

I get it that you are angry. IMHO, your anger would be more accurately placed being leveled at me rather than David Mayo.

Peace.

Face

i appreciate that you step up to the plate, however, unless one got in as a child (i did), we were all there of our own volition.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Non SO Org staffs didn't get Reg Commissions in my days and most lived in extreme poverty unless they had money from an outside source. SO Regges got Reg Commissions in those days and had more spending money than their fellow Crew Members. There was also a Bonus System for Flag Missionaires.

Staff lived in need, not greed.

Face

Some generalities there - but basically true.

The only part of this I'll add to is on the commissions.

There were no reg commissions - that's a misnomer. There were (and are) FSM commissions - paid only to public, not staff. And there were book commissions - paid equally to FSMs or staff. Book commissions varied from 5% - 15%. Different times and different stresses within the Church would change this back and forth.

No staff I knew were getting rich on those book commisisons. It sometimes amounted to having a fast car, a nice watch, some better clothes, ability to purchase more better food.

Usually, having the book commisisons was the difference between having to go get a moonlight job or having the joy of being on post ALL THE TIME.

The basic staff problems were the same - not getting on course, bad teeth, no health care, abandonment of children, etc.

Not much greed there, eh?

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Non SO Org staffs didn't get Reg Commissions in my days and most lived in extreme poverty unless they had money from an outside source. SO Regges got Reg Commissions in those days and had more spending money than their fellow Crew Members. There was also a Bonus System for Flag Missionaires.

Staff lived in need, not greed.

Face

having audited some reges (back in the 70s), they had blood on their hands, and wrestled with it.

 

[Veda]

1975 or so. Rocky C/S'd my Power Processing.

Paulette Cohen, Class 12, was also declared around that time. It's pretty vague to me, but was she not Hubbard's auditor for a while? And perhaps even the equivalent of the Senior C/S International - before that title was used?

If so, it would line up with Martin Samuels' key patterns list:

"The first pattern involved basically decent well-intentioned people: whether you look at his personal communicator Ken Urquhart, his personal nurse Kima Douglas, David Mayo his auditor and research assistant, John McMaster; no one has been able to rise in the organization or in his life to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified."

 

[Veda]

having audited some reges (back in the 70s), they had blood on their hands, and wrestled with it.

They were applying Hubbard's Hard Sell tech.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

i appreciate that you step up to the plate, however, unless one got in as a child (i did), we were all there on our own volition.

Yes, I agree. We were all there of our own volition...with the exception of the Children. IMHO, any person that would seek to raise their children in the SO or while on Staff, or would syphon off significant cash and attention to the providing of a homelife for their family in order to go "Up the Bridge" is derelict, irresponsible and callous.

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Paulette Cohen, Class 12, was also declared around that time. It's pretty vague to me, but was she not Hubbard's auditor for a while? And perhaps even the equivalent of the Senior C/S International - before that title was used?

If so, it would line up with Martin Samuels' key patterns list:

"The first pattern involved basically decent well intentioned people: whether you look at his personal communicator Ken Urquhart, his personal nurse Kima Douglas, David Mayo his auditor and research assistant, John McMaster; no one has been able to rise in the organization or in his life to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified."

Yes, Paulette Cohen Ausley was El Ron's personal Auditor and she also Audited the real Commodore, Harry Ross Hubbard. For a brief "window in time" after the fall of Roos, IMO Paulette was probably THE Tech Terminal 2nd only to El Ron.

Face

 

[justsayin']

Yes, I agree. We were all there of our own volition...with the exception of the Children. IMHO, any person that would seek to raise their children in the SO or while on Staff, or would syphon off significant cash and attention to the providing of a homelife for their family in order to go "Up the Bridge" is derelict, irresponsible and callous.

Face

agreed. but just to clarify, i was still there of my own volition.

 

[TheRealNoUser]

Thank you, TRNU.

I have numbered your answers and will respond accordingly.
etc etc snip

That's the most honest answer I have ever read afaceinthecrowd.

With regard to #2, I did actually open the account to share my pdf books as widely as possible.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=553089#post553089
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=553207#post553207

I then started reading a number of other threads which caught my eye. That's about it.

 

[TheRealNoUser]

Yeah.

So you are posting from an asylum?

Aren't we all?

 

[Gadfly]

Some generalities there - but basically true.

The only part of this I'll add to is on the commissions.

There were no reg commissions - that's a misnomer. There were (and are) FSM commissions - paid only to public, not staff. And there were book commissions - paid equally to FSMs or staff. Book commissions varied from 5% - 15%. Different times and different stresses within the Church would change this back and forth.

No staff I knew were getting rich on those book commisisons. It sometimes amounted to having a fast car, a nice watch, some better clothes, ability to purchase more better food.

Usually, having the book commisisons was the difference between having to go get a moonlight job or having the joy of being on post ALL THE TIME.

The basic staff problems were the same - not getting on course, bad teeth, no health care, abandonment of children, etc.

Not much greed there, eh?

I forgot to mention my context. I was on Flag 1983-86 (or so), and the regges, and all execs on the chain above the regges got HEFTY book commissions. Big dollars. So many big dollars that the CO FSO (Ron Norton) and the FLB Finance Director (Jon Lundeen) drove corvettes! Paul Miller, FSO Div 2 reg, had a beautiful 500 series BMW!

I am sure it is/was true that class IV org regges did not at all share so well in the "spoils".

+++++++++++++

 

[Terril park]

Thank you, TRNU.

I have numbered your answers and will respond accordingly.

1. Yes, that is a possibility of which I am at more risk of than you. However, I chose to divulge what I felt was sufficient “Context” re: afaceinthecrowd so as to have the latitude to post some things that I thought may be of value to me fellow ESMB Members.

2. My personal opinion is that no one comes to a Board like ESMB without some form of Agenda…even it it’s simply to ridicule or grandstand. However, I will accept your answer and, in doing so, find it non sequitur that your posts here are accordant with your sole agenda item for Scientology. Most folks here are already gone or are in the process of going.

3. I did not ask you a question re: opinions, however, thank you for your opinion of opinions.

4. I did not ask a question re characterizations, however, I will answer the question you asked me. Obviously, I’m referring to your OP and posts on this thread. If you can’t see blanket characterizations and specified ones for David Mayo, then one of us is confused somewhat in what they read and write. Also, as a former Senior Flag Exec, I am one of the folks that you say you despise as, although I don’t have a Blog, I am Journaling and writing “Op Eds” that are being linked to around the net. I never expected that and, actually, never expected I’d end up revealing as much as I have about El Ron, the SO, Flag, DM, M&M et al. It was the all the good ESMB folks that you mischaracterized in, to me, juvenile sarcasm that have encouraged me to do so.

5. There were hundreds of “Tech” folks that directly created Scn and that information is well chronicled here on ESMB and, in a number of cases, by the very individual that was the actual “source” of that part of the “Tech”. David Mayo was one of these folks, but there were many before him. Frankly, from my view, very little of the truly evil or damaging stuff came from these other “sources”, especially Mayo. L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. was the self admitted source of a fraction some of the evil stuff and he “blew the whistle” on himself and El Ron. Mayo was involved with the development of refinements and procedures in the “Tech” and not the fundamental principles or structure of “The Bridge”. From my personal experience, “Tech” folks like Mayo are not as culpable in the grand scheme of things as are ‘Admin” folks like me. I am confident that I was directly responsible for far, far more folks starting their basic courses and getting in to Scn than David Mayo ever was. One of the biggest hits—arguably the biggest—that Institutionalized Scn ever took was Mayo’s leaving, starting ACC and his legal battle.

I get it that you are angry. IMHO, your anger would be more accurately placed being leveled at me rather than David Mayo.

Peace.

Face

Another turning the other cheek. With a novel twist.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Thank you, TRNU.

I have numbered your answers and will respond accordingly.

1. Yes, that is a possibility of which I am at more risk of than you. However, I chose to divulge what I felt was sufficient “Context” re: afaceinthecrowd so as to have the latitude to post some things that I thought may be of value to me fellow ESMB Members.

2. My personal opinion is that no one comes to a Board like ESMB without some form of Agenda…even it it’s simply to ridicule or grandstand. However, I will accept your answer and, in doing so, find it non sequitur that your posts here are accordant with your sole agenda item for Scientology. Most folks here are already gone or are in the process of going.

3. I did not ask you a question re: opinions, however, thank you for your opinion of opinions.

4. I did not ask a question re characterizations, however, I will answer the question you asked me. Obviously, I’m referring to your OP and posts on this thread. If you can’t see blanket characterizations and specified ones for David Mayo, then one of us is confused somewhat in what they read and write. Also, as a former Senior Flag Exec, I am one of the folks that you say you despise as, although I don’t have a Blog, I am Journaling and writing “Op Eds” that are being linked to around the net. I never expected that and, actually, never expected I’d end up revealing as much as I have about El Ron, the SO, Flag, DM, M&M et al. It was the all the good ESMB folks that you mischaracterized in, to me, juvenile sarcasm that have encouraged me to do so.

5. There were hundreds of “Tech” folks that directly created Scn and that information is well chronicled here on ESMB and, in a number of cases, by the very individual that was the actual “source” of that part of the “Tech”. David Mayo was one of these folks, but there were many before him. Frankly, from my view, very little of the truly evil or damaging stuff came from these other “sources”, especially Mayo. L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. was the self admitted source of a fraction some of the evil stuff and he “blew the whistle” on himself and El Ron. Mayo was involved with the development of refinements and procedures in the “Tech” and not the fundamental principles or structure of “The Bridge”. From my personal experience, “Tech” folks like Mayo are not as culpable in the grand scheme of things as are ‘Admin” folks like me. I am confident that I was directly responsible for far, far more folks starting their basic courses and getting in to Scn than David Mayo ever was. One of the biggest hits—arguably the biggest—that Institutionalized Scn ever took was Mayo’s leaving, starting ACC and his legal battle.

I get it that you are angry. IMHO, your anger would be more accurately placed being leveled at me rather than David Mayo.

Peace.

Face

Yeah I knew all along it was all your fault.

 

[Ted]

Aren't we all?

No. That's a Hubbard perspective that he used to bind people together and to Scientology.

I agree, this place can seem like a nuthouse, but so can a daycare center. Beings are entering or reentering at different stages of development.

Change your perception, change your life.

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

I forgot to mention my context. I was on Flag 1983-86 (or so), and the regges, and all execs on the chain above the regges got HEFTY book commissions. Big dollars. So many big dollars that the CO FSO (Ron Norton) and the FLB Finance Director (Jon Lundeen) drove corvettes! Paul Miller, FSO Div 2 reg, had a beautiful 500 series BMW!

I am sure it is/was true that class IV org regges did not at all share so well in the "spoils".

+++++++++++++

That's what I said in the post! Best case senario - a fast car and a nice watch! Whatever "It" gives, it takes away - the regges got regged too you know!

How many of those guys have fast cars now?

Jono is Captain ASHO (D?). Can you imagine that shit-hole post?

Ron? "Promoted" to Int - where's he now?

Paul? No car, no sleep (except on post - haha).

Dick Story? At one time a Mazaratti (a humble one), then a BMW with nitrous, then a Subaru SRX, then a Crap Box car, son at Gold , wife blown.

Stephan (?) - the Chief Reg at Zurich had a nice Porsche.

Whatever $ the regges got passed through their fingers fast enough.

Whatever you think you know about the book commisisons paid to staff at Flag, know this:

Aside from some car payments, a few watches, some better clothes and more better food, all the money got sucked back into the machine.

That's a fact.

Never mind that!

David Mayo was posting on this thread and I want to know if he believes in Xenu and BTs!!

 

[Emma]

Yeah I knew all along it was all your fault.

Yeah! Let's hang Facey!

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Never mind that!

David Mayo was posting on this thread and I want to know if he believes in Xenu and BTs!!

Focus on your goals. But don't get caught focusing.

 

[uniquemand]

Asked and answered. Thus, the thread "Misconceptions"

 

[thetanic]

All parties wind down to something far less fun than when the party started.

That's when I joined.

Sad to say, it was fun compared to the parties I'd been to before it, which says buckets about my pre-Scn life.