The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[FoTi]

Re: Sounds like a good subject for a spy movie but....

Well, this would make a good spy movie but while your theory is possible, I doubt if it is true. After all, I am not being very secretive about how I feel about the Church of Scientology and I have told my entire life story on this thread. Why would they have to resort to "cloak and dagger" tactics when everything about me is right here on ESMB?

My guess is that he was just trying to find people to recover, bring back into the fold and sell services to for an FSM commission if he's public and for a stat if he's on staff or SO.

I just spent about 7 hrs of my time on the phone this past week with 4 highly trained OTs in the SO, trying to get me to buy the Basic Books. I think they may have given up now since they didn't get anything from me to improve their stats and I haven't heard from them for a couple of days. How desperate must they be to spend that much time on me to sell those books? Only one out of the 4 had any decent ARC or TRs. The other 3 were operating with admin Trs and trying to overwhelm me......it didn't work.

They appear to have an incredible amount of pressure on them to sell the Basic Books. They seem to think that by putting the tech in chronological order with all the tapes and other found data and definitions included, to make it easier to read and understand the sequence that the tech was created in, along with some beautiful and big org buildings, that this will bring people back in and expand Scientology. They don't seem to have a clue as to why people have left or why they are still leaving and why they are not getting new people in.

These guys really think that they are having incredible expansion, while in fact they are shrinking, from what we can see on the outside. They live in this bubble with no reality of what goes on outside the bubble except that for them it's "bad out there". From all the false data they are being fed, they appear to be delusional.

Thank God for Emma and ESMB and all the people who have come out and posted their stories online, over the years, for others to read. And thank God for the internet itself....it's one enemy they don't know how to overcome right now.

 

[lkwdblds]

Talk about wrong whys?

My guess is that he was just trying to find people to recover, bring back into the fold and sell services to for an FSM commission if he's public and for a stat if he's on staff or SO.

I just spent about 7 hrs of my time on the phone this past week with 4 highly trained OTs in the SO, trying to get me to buy the Basic Books. I think they may have given up now since they didn't get anything from me to improve their stats and I haven't heard from them for a couple of days. How desperate must they be to spend that much time on me to sell those books? Only one out of the 4 had any decent ARC or TRs. The other 3 were operating with admin Trs and trying to overwhelm me......it didn't work.

They appear to have an incredible amount of pressure on them to sell the Basic Books. They seem to think that by putting the tech in chronological order with all the tapes and other found data and definitions included, to make it easier to read and understand the sequence that the tech was created in, along with some beautiful and big org buildings, that this will bring people back in and expand Scientology. They don't seem to have a clue as to why people have left or why they are still leaving and why they are not getting new people in.

These guys really think that they are having incredible expansion, while in fact they are shrinking, from what we can see on the outside. They live in this bubble with no reality of what goes on outside the bubble except that for them it's "bad out there". From all the false data they are being fed, they appear to be delusional.

Thank God for Emma and ESMB and all the people who have come out and posted their stories online, over the years, for others to read. And thank God for the internet itself....it's one enemy they don't know how to overcome right now.

Nice post FoTi! The mindset of these "OT's" is really narrow as in narrow minded, as in a horse wearing blinkers.

Talk about wrong why's, a picture of these people should appear in the dictionary when the term is looked up.

BEAUTIFULLY BOUND BOOKS IN THEIR CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER OF PUBLISHING PLUS SUPER GLITZY BUILDINGS

There is nothing wrong with these things, that is for sure. However, building a religion or a philosophy around these objects is completely "putting the cart before the horse."

The books, though beautifully bound and with large and legible print, have been altered greatly from what Hubbard wrote. Despite claims to the contrary, large parts of Hubbards writing have been deleted. The fiction that 1950's copyists are responsible for numerous typos in earlier editions is one of the biggest hoaxes ever foisted off on the Scientology public. The odd thing is that all their public pretty much have accepted it. One thing I really like about the books and do have to give DM credit for is the Glossary sections. They are really well done. More books should have glossaries such as those. Give the devil his due.

Beautiful buildings in and of themselves do not get droves of people to join up and pay mega bucks for services. If you have a great product and superlative service and the public is treated like royalty, then the glitzy buildings would contribute to expansion but only a deluded mind would construe that, on their own, 5 star hotel type buildings could cause a boom.

C of S's mantra is "stats, stats and more stats. People don't count, only higher stats count." If stats don't actually rise, we will lie and say that they do. By doing that, we are insuring our future growth and gaining control of this planet.

People called OT's accept this mantra and are unable to spot that it is all based on lies. They are supposed to have heightened powers of perception and yet they are the most easily duped people on the planet. Go figure,
Lakey

 

[FoTi]

Re: Talk about wrong whys?

Nice post FoTi! The mindset of these "OT's" is really narrow as in narrow minded, as in a horse wearing blinkers.

Talk about wrong why's, a picture of these people should appear in the dictionary when the term is looked up.

BEAUTIFULLY BOUND BOOKS IN THEIR CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER OF PUBLISHING PLUS SUPER GLITZY BUILDINGS

There is nothing wrong with these things, that is for sure. However, building a religion or a philosophy around these objects is completely "putting the cart before the horse."

The books, though beautifully bound and with large and legible print, have been altered greatly from what Hubbard wrote. Despite claims to the contrary, large parts of Hubbards writing have been deleted. The fiction that 1950's copyists are responsible for numerous typos in earlier editions is one of the biggest hoaxes ever foisted off on the Scientology public. The odd thing is that all their public pretty much have accepted it. One thing I really like about the books and do have to give DM credit for is the Glossary sections. They are really well done. More books should have glossaries such as those. Give the devil his due.

Beautiful buildings in and of themselves do not get droves of people to join up and pay mega bucks for services. If you have a great product and superlative service and the public is treated like royalty, then the glitzy buildings would contribute to expansion but only a deluded mind would construe that, on their own, 5 star hotel type buildings could cause a boom.

C of S's mantra is "stats, stats and more stats. People don't count, only higher stats count." If stats don't actually rise, we will lie and say that they do. By doing that, we are insuring our future growth and gaining control of this planet.

People called OT's accept this mantra and are unable to spot that it is all based on lies. They are supposed to have heightened powers of perception and yet they are the most easily duped people on the planet. Go figure,
Lakey

I went and watched their 3 hr event when they introduced The Basic Books, so that I could converse with them about it. I watched it online. They don't hide the fact that they've changed things and removed sections of the books. In the event video,DM just says and shows that they removed them because LRH didn't write them. So, this is what they used to get the public to accept the changes. This way, if you bring up to a Scio that the books have been changed....they already know that and already have the reason that DM gave them as the reason why.....so they will just disregard any comments made about this because they "already think they know". They have now been told what the Correct Technology is by COB and what anyone else says means nothing. DM pretty well covered any questions that anyone might come up with, while he was delivering his speech at the event and it all sounds pretty logical....especially if the viewer has no other data from the outside. He did his dead agenting at the event. It was woven into his lecture.

Did you get a set of The Basic Books or have you read them? I haven't.

 

[lkwdblds]

Comments on the Basic Books

I went and watched their 3 hr event when they introduced The Basic Books, so that I could converse with them about it. I watched it online. They don't hide the fact that they've changed things and removed sections of the books. In the event video,DM just says and shows that they removed them because LRH didn't write them. So, this is what they used to get the public to accept the changes. This way, if you bring up to a Scio that the books have been changed....they already know that and already have the reason that DM gave them as the reason why.....so they will just disregard any comments made about this because they "already think they know". They have now been told what the Correct Technology is by COB and what anyone else says means nothing. DM pretty well covered any questions that anyone might come up with, while he was delivering his speech at the event and it all sounds pretty logical....especially if the viewer has no other data from the outside. He did his dead agenting at the event. It was woven into his lecture.

Did you get a set of The Basic Books or have you read them? I haven't.

I went to the Book release on L Ron Hubbard way when the books came out. DM did present his case convincingly as you say but when you apply "Look, don't listen" there are two huge flaws in his line of reasoning.

Flaw #1 is that LRH himself was delivering courses in person using those very books as course materials. For example, in the early and mid 60's he personally supervised the St. Hill Special Briefing Course and that course consisted of chronilogically studying all the materials of Scientology up to that time. If the books were full of errors and sections written by others, certainly, LRH would have noticed this and ordered the books corrected. In fact LRH lived into the mid 1980's and never once commented that any of the books had any errors. IF THE BOOKS WERE FULL OF ERRORS AND LRH NEVER NOTICED THIS THEN HE WAS INCREDIBLY DENSE AND REASONABLE. This cannot be the case.

Flaw #2 is that DM's church proudly claimed that ALL the books had been checked extremely thoroughly for errors in the early 90's. All old books were then replaced with new books. The new books were then heavily charged for plus some collectors editions were leather bound and sold at very high prices. WE WERE ASSURED THAT THESE BOOKS WERE THE ULTIMATELY CORRECT BOOKS. DM AND MANAGEMENT WERE SO SURE OF THAT THEY THESE BOOKS WERE DEPOSITED UNDERGROUND IN THE SCIO VAULTS IN NEW MEXICO. MOREOVER, A HUGE CAMPAIGN WAS LAUNCHED AND CARRIED OUT TO PUT THE 1990's SET INTO ALL THE LIBRARIES OF EARTH.

If anyone challenged the early 90's set and said that something did not make sense, as I did at the O.C. Org one time, that person immediately received notification from international management that they were out ethics for not finding all their misunderstood words. They were taken off course and ordered to ethics. It was a very serious offense to challenge the 1990's set of revised books. If you stated that even one comma was out of place, Int Management came down on you with great force. Fifteen years later, DM tells us that the 1990 set of books was completely rife with errors. How could anyone take DM seriously after that?

He admits no wrongs for his earlier claims and prentends like those claims never existed. Unlike other organizations, the public is given no monetary credit for those older books which they were forced to buy and now they are ordered to buy a brand new set and throw out the 1990's versions. Is that any way to run a Navy?

WHAT ABOUT THE OLD TAPES?
There is no way that 1950's copyists could have put wrong materials into the tapes. LRH spoke every word of them. The new CD versions of the tapes have many very important passages deleted from them. This is done seamlessly so that the listener can't tell a change was made.

DM speaks very smoothly and convincingly but facts are facts and his claims about the books are mostly balderdash. As I said earlier, if you leave out the content of the books, all other aspects of the books are superior but that stuff is just the "sizzle". The "steak" is the words themselves.

Now here on ESMB, many people do not think very much of LRH nor do they think much of DM. What about when DM alters LRH materials; to true exes is that a good thing or a bad thing? You true exes, what do you think of DM altering LRH's writings.

Oh yes, I had money on account at Flag from 1999 and have never been back so I used most of that money to purchase the new CD's and the new Basic Books. I never read them but spent a short amount of time just looking them over and trying to spot the changes.
Lakey

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: Comments on the Basic Books

I went to the Book release on L Ron Hubbard way when the books came out. DM did present his case convingly as you say but when you apply "Look, don't listen" there are two huge flaws in his line of reasoning.
...

What you fail to grasp, Lakey, is that Hubbard himself dictated the revisions via a channel from Target 2 in order to meet the requirements formed by the last 50 years of progress and the entrance into a New Century.

Yeah. That's the Ticket!


Mark A. Baker

 

[FoTi]

Re: Comments on the Basic Books

I went to the Book release on L Ron Hubbard way when the books came out. DM did present his case convingly as you say but when you apply "Look, don't listen" there are two huge flaws in his line of reasoning.

Flaw #1 is that LRH himself was delivering courses in person using those very books as course materials. For example, in the early and mid 60's he personally supervised the St. Hill Special Briefing Course and that course consisted of chronilogically studying all the materials of Scientology up to that time. If the books were full of errors and sections written by others, certainly, LRH would have noticed this and ordered the books corrected. In fact LRH lived into the mid 1980's and never once commented that any of the books had any errors. IF THE BOOKS WERE FULL OF ERRORS AND LRH NEVER NOTICED THIS THEN HE WAS INCREDIBLY DENSE AND REASONABLE. This cannot be the case.

Flaw #2 is that DM's church proudly claimed that ALL the books had been checked extremely thoroughly for errors in the early 90's. All old books were then replaced with new books. The new books were then heavily charged for plus some collectors editions were leather bound and sold at very high prices. WE WERE ASSURED THAT THESE BOOKS WERE THE ULTIMATELY CORRECT BOOKS. DM AND MANAGEMENT WERE SO SURE OF THAT THEY THESE BOOKS WERE DEPOSITED UNDERGROUND IN THE SCIO VAULTS IN NEW MEXICO. MOREOVER, A HUGE CAMPAIGN WAS LAUNCHED AND CARRIED OUT TO PUT THE 1990's SET INTO ALL THE LIBRARIES OF EARTH.

If anyone challenged the early 90's set and said that something did not make sense, as I did at the O.C. Org one time, that person immediately received notification from international management that they were out ethics for not finding all their misunderstood words. They were taken off course and ordered to ethics. It was a very serious offense to challenge the 1990's set of revised books. If you stated that even one comma was out of place, Int Management came down on you with great force. Fifteen years later, DM tells us that the 1990 set of books was completely rife with errors. How could anyone take DM seriously after that?

He admits no wrongs for his earlier claims and prentends like those claims never existed. Unlike other organizations, the public is given no monetary credit for those older books which they were forced to buy and now that are ordered to buy a brand new set and throw out the 1990's versions. Is that any way to run a Navy?

WHAT ABOUT THE OLD TAPES?
There is no way that 1950's copyists could have put wrong materials into the tapes. LRH spoke every word of them. The new CD versions of the tapes have many very important passages deleted from them. This is done seamlessly so that the listener can't tell a change was made.

DM speaks very smoothly and convincingly but facts are facts and his claims about the books are mostly balderdash. As I said earlier, if you leave out the content of the books, all other aspects of the books are superior but that stuff is just the "sizzle". The "steak" is the words themselves.

Now here on ESMB, many people do not think very much of LRH nor do they think much of DM. What about when DM alters LRH materials; to true exes is that a good thing or a bad thing? You true exes, what do you think of DM altering LRH's writings.

Oh yes, I had money on account at Flag from 1999 and have never been back so I used most of that money to purchase the new CD's and the new Basic Books. I never read them but spent a short amount of time just looking them over and trying to spot the changes.
Lakey

Thanks for this post, Lakey. I will use this info in the future if needed.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

In 2008 I was finding sets of books on ebay for 5 dollars a set. Totally new ones. Individual books just released were 1.00 each. I ordered a few. I did not see much difference at all. The Volunteers Minister's Handbook was very different. The intros and the chapter line ups were changed in some. Some words were obviously added to clarify .....which you knew weren't in the orginal LRH print. No big deal. Never got what the whole 'Basics' deal was. Just about more money and creating a cohesive army to oppose saboteurs.


These religious or mental health infomercials are all done by the same advertising agency it seems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndHs1i32FXA&feature=player_detailpage

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Comments on the Basic Books

What you fail to grasp, Lakey, is that Hubbard himself dictated the revisions via a channel from Target 2 in order to meet the requirements formed by the last 50 years of progress and the entrance into a New Century.

Yeah. That's the Ticket!


Mark A. Baker

Oh silly me, how could I have failed to think of that! You know, even if such a thing were true, it still makes Hubbard look bad, though it does enhance DM. If Hubbard dictated the revisions in the early 2000's, why did he allow those faulty books to be studied all those decades, especially in the courses which he personally delivered?
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

About the Basic Books and the Ad Campaigns

In 2008 I was finding sets of books on ebay for 5 dollars a set. Totally new ones. Individual books just released were 1.00 each. I ordered a few. I did not see much difference at all. The Volunteers Minister's Handbook was very different. The intros and the chapter line ups were changed in some. Some words were obviously added to clarify .....which you knew weren't in the orginal LRH print. No big deal. Never got what the whole 'Basics' deal was. Just about more money and creating a cohesive army to oppose saboteurs.


These religious or mental health infomercials are all done by the same advertising agency it seems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndHs1i32FXA&feature=player_detailpage

On the "Advertising Agency", I believe, Hats, that C of S makes all these commercials "in house". The voice for most of these things, including the videos shown at the large yearly events, is that of Jeff Pomerantz. He was a Celebrity at CC starting in the early 70's, maybe 1973 or so.

On the Basic Books, DM takes that very very seriously. For example, all the old books in the libraries of the world and underground in New Mexico had to be removed and destroyed at great cost. If you watch DM's video about the newer books, which FoTi references, he goes over in detail which areas of each book has been changed. These changes are quite extensive.

Of course, money played a great part in bringing out the Basics. At about $4,000 a set for the Books and the CD's of the Congresses, if 25,000 people were coerced into buying this package, that would generate $100,000,000 income for the "church". Let's say it cost them $5,000,000 or even $10,000,000 to create the product and arrange for printing and distribution, they still put a small fortune into their coffers.

More than the money, it seems to me that DM really believes that these new Books and Tapes plus the super glitzy "ideal org" buildings will actually cause droves and droves of people to join Scientology and go up the bridge.

One thing Hubbard said, which I consider has a lot of truth in it is "Any Policy is better than No Policy". Here we have an instance where DM's policy is not valid but he is enforcing that policy extremely vigorously. Using incorrect policy in this manner, we can only speculate on what will happen but we know for sure that SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: About the Basic Books and the Ad Campaigns

snipped

One thing Hubbard said, which I consider has a lot of truth in it is "Any Policy is better than No Policy". Here we have an instance where DM's policy is not valid but he is enforcing that policy extremely vigorously. Using incorrect policy in this manner, we can only speculate on what will happen but we know for sure that SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN.

Some policies that don't make sense any more can seem to go on forever.

I ordered a few of the new books off the internet to see what the difference was as they were giving them away for a buck.

The long video of DM at the Basics event where all the celebs attended has been removed by the person who uploaded it. (so it says) I have the dvd of the insanity. You are right about the seriousness. Did he ever do a culling of the public's own personal collection of the original green books? That WOULD be funny. To burn up all of LRHs originals and replace them with the 'new' and improved and 'shoulda beens.'

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Cake for everyone!!!

http://youtu.be/wFh-rX_Sfhs

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Cake for everyone!!!



http://youtu.be/4L1iREJcn4s

 

[SweetnessandLight]

for all!!!

this song's for Eee Pee!


http://youtu.be/oJQM5xBaRXI

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Plenty of cake for everyone!

 

[lkwdblds]

Setting the Record Straight vis a vis Reuben Hart

Most readers here know that my brother Rueben Hart appeared on ESMB about 10 days ago posting under the screen name, Clarence Rockaway. Also generally known is that I was ordered to disconnect from him in 1984 by ASHO, an order which I complied with.

I've had some misgivings over the years about this disconnection so when he appeared on the board here, I contacted him, wanting him to know that I got out of C of S as well and that perhaps we could establish a connection again at this time.

To my dismay, Reuben detests me and has written some of the most vile attacks imaginable against me. He has gone after not only me but many others, usually opinion leaders with some power and leadership on ESMB. He has attacked Roger B. and also took some potshots at Karen De La Cariere.

Because of earlier complaints (none from me), he received a warning from Emma about not making personal attacks against people on ESMB. Despite that, he wrote the most hateful and viscious post I have ever seen on ESMB to me yesterday. He used the Yiddish word, "geharget" suggesting that I be killed.

This individual has a certain "modus operandi" when he enters a group. He singles out the persons in power and manufactures injustices which he feels they have committed against him. He then starts taking written potshots at them.

Typically, there will be a group of dissidents within an organization who have a bone to pick with the top people as well. Reuben forms a bond with the dissidents and they form a cabal, attempting to attack, discredit and ultimately bring down the leadership of the group.

This is nothing new for him, here on ESMB. At Celebrity Centre he set his sights on bringing down Yvonne Jentzsch. He formed an alliance with a woman in the pubs division at CCLA, Juianne Warner, who also had some bones to pick with Yvonne and they tried to form a cabal to take her down.

Amanda Ambrose, the recently deceased singer had some kind of dispute going with Yvonne as well. Amanda was a person of stature at CCLA and was Honorary Div 6. Reuben and Julianne connected with Amanda and discussions were held on how to reduce Yvonne's power. Reuben and Julianne eagerly came to me and attempted to enlist me into their cabal but I would have no part of it. Ultimately, Yvonne got wind of all this, not from me but from others. She immediately had Reuben and Julianne routed off staff sometime early in 1973. Those two stayed friends after that, Julianne joining the John Birch Society.

BTW, Julianne wrote a clever and amusing book called "Arthur's Octopus". It was a sort of Dianetics primer for children with an "Octopus" clamped tightly to everyone's head, representing their reactive mind. She did some illustrations for her book and they were really clever and well done. She was actually a nice person but very unfulfilled.

Getting back to present time, after Reuben's scathing attacks against me, especially the most vicious yesterday where he wished me dead, I reached the conclusion that I DID MAKE THE CORRECT DECISION BACK IN 1984 WHEN I DISCONNECTED FROM HIM. I have no regrets, no misgivings and would change nothing as regards that topic.

As far as his position here on ESMB, he has something to offer ESMB but only if he adheres to ESMB guidelines. If he singles out the top opinion leaders on the board such as Roger and Karen and discredits them and forms cabals against them then he should be banned. He already was placed on probation by Emma and is still launching viscious personal attacks topped by his sick, viscious and super critical attack against me yesterday.

This site is set up to give help to people who have left Scientology. It has helped countless numbers and it can help Reuben. The thing is that there are rules of decorum and behavior here and to qualify to receive help here, a person has to obey the rules. To date, he is not obeying the rules. I say to give him one more chance and if he breaks the rules again, he should be banned.
Lakey

 

[Leon]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Well, I for one will be glad when al;l of your family laundry gets put away. I thought you Jewish people have "ferieble books" that you put all of your "look what injustice was done to me's" in and look at it privately only. Do you guys have those? They're accepted among South African jews.

Anyway - I have some better news. About 14 years ago or so I lost contact with an old friend when they moved to the UK. Had head nothing from her since an neither had any of our old friends we had in common. This person just seemes to have fallen off the edge of the earth. She was one of the most successful EDs that Cape Town Org ever had. In fact since they threw herr off back then the Org had nver again reached the heights we'd achieved in the late 1970's under her.

Then last week another friend whom the Cof S were trying to get back in asked the person she was talkig to in LA what hed ever happend to person A. The reply was she'd died of cancer a while back. This was apparently what was stated on some list of ex-senior Scio execs.

So I went hunting on the internet for more on this. BTW I have searched for this friend before on the net with no luck at all. On Monday when I searched I eventually came across one link that might prove to be worth following - I found her name on a British electoral roll, and then I found another possible one with an email atttachment to reply to. So I wrote and Bingo! Last nght when I came home from work there was an email from her, alive and well, family all fine too, boys grown up etc etc etc. Wonderrful news.

But now why would the CofS say she was dead from cancer? Hmmm.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Well, I for one will be glad when al;l of your family laundry gets put away. I thought you Jewish people have "ferieble books" that you put all of your "look what injustice was done to me's" in and look at it privately only. Do you guys have those? They're accepted among South African jews.

Anyway - I have some better news. About 14 years ago or so I lost contact with an old friend when they moved to the UK. Had head nothing from her since an neither had any of our old friends we had in common. This person just seemes to have fallen off the edge of the earth. She was one of the most successful EDs that Cape Town Org ever had. In fact since they threw herr off back then the Org had nver again reached the heights we'd achieved in the late 1970's under her.

Then last week another friend whom the Cof S were trying to get back in asked the person she was talkig to in LA what hed ever happend to person A. The reply was she'd died of cancer a while back. This was apparently what was stated on some list of ex-senior Scio execs.

So I went hunting on the internet for more on this. BTW I have searched for this friend before on the net with no luck at all. On Monday when I searched I eventually came across one link that might prove to be worth following - I found her name on a British electoral roll, and then I found another possible one with an email atttachment to reply to. So I wrote and Bingo! Last nght when I came home from work there was an email from her, alive and well, family all fine too, boys grown up etc etc etc. Wonderrful news.

But now why would the CofS say she was dead from cancer? Hmmm.

My family stuff is now "put to bed". I was asked by a key opinion leader to clean up some of the false data posted about various people, including myself, by "Clarence". I did what I could and am now done wiith this topic.

Great story, Leon!! Thanks for moving to something new. It is really nice that you were determined and kept looking and got such a positive result!

As for being Jewish, I really don't resonate to that calling. I like the people and how much they have contributed to the world with their miniscule percentage of the world's population. I also love their humor, their deli food and some of the songs in the services are kind of catchy. I feel more German and Austrian than Jewish but I have tended to pick up Jewish bodies from time to time. Besides my last life and this life, I remember just one other life being a Jew back in the Roman Empire days. I was an empresario who put on battles and fighting shows in the coloseum, sort of like an old Roman version of the wrestling promoter Vince Mc Mahon or the boxing promoter, Don King.

Jews are pretty much like other people. The men put their pants on one leg at a time and not all Jews are rich and wealthy. Plenty of them slave away in a small family business just trying to make ends meet. Jews are probably a bit more resourceful than others when it comes to surviving. They've had to be because they have been a persecuted people for so long.
Lakey

 

[FoTi]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I got another call from CLO Sat night under the guise of caring about me and wanting to help me to get up the bridge and go free. But of course it was a sales call and they wanted me to buy the basic books.

I was told that people who went to a psychologist prior to Scientology are no longer illegal pcs.....that the illegal pc policy had been misinterpreted for years and a lot of people were treated unjustly and turned away because of this error. Then she asked me if I had ever been given psych drugs or been institutionalized. No. This lady even told me that there are people who had shock treatment that have been recovered and handled and have gone up the bridge. Oh, really?

When I wouldn't buy the basic book pkg, she tried to get me to buy just one book and an extension course. When I told her I wasn't buying any books and I was never coming back, she then said something to the effect of....so why am I trying to help you? I don't know. :confused2: I had already said over and over that I wasn't coming back.

The information these guys had on me was incomplete and mostly incorrect....shows a lot of misduplication within the org lines.

I don't know how they can possibly recover people that have been out and on the net researching what has been going on in regards to those who have been in and left.

I asked a lot of questions and found that they can't answer them....they don't know or they aren't willing to look and find out because they aren't interested in looking at entheta. Well, if they can't look at entheta and handle it, how do they ever expect to get people back? The CoS has enturbulated lots of people thru the years and now doesn't want to look at it or handle it? Good luck on recovering people.

I spent probably a total of about 8 hours over several days talking with them, asking questions.....I wanted to know what kind of answers they would come up with and hoped that maybe I could jog someone's stuck viewpoint, but they are all so solidly stuck and certain of what they have been told that questions are answered with rote answers....just like the GAT training for auditors. They can't really converse, they can only parrot.

The oh so sweet caring turned a little hostile when it finally sunk in that I wasn't coming back and I wasn't going to buy any books or extension courses from her.

I guess they spent a lot of time with me, maybe thinking they had a sucker on the other end of the line since I was talking civil and friendly with them and just asking questions instead of attacking them. Since I wasted hours of their time, and they didn't get a stat out of me, I doubt I will be hearing from them again.

 

[Terril park]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I got another call from CLO Sat night under the guise of caring about me and wanting to help me to get up the bridge and go free. But of course it was a sales call and they wanted me to buy the basic books.

I was told that people who went to a psychologist prior to Scientology are no longer illegal pcs.....that the illegal pc policy had been misinterpreted for years and a lot of people were treated unjustly and turned away because of this error. Then she asked me if I had ever been given psych drugs or been institutionalized. No. This lady even told me that there are people who had shock treatment that have been recovered and handled and have gone up the bridge. Oh, really?

When I wouldn't buy the basic book pkg, she tried to get me to buy just one book and an extension course. When I told her I wasn't buying any books and I was never coming back, she then said something to the effect of....so why am I trying to help you? I don't know. :confused2: I had already said over and over that I wasn't coming back.

The information these guys had on me was incomplete and mostly incorrect....shows a lot of misduplication within the org lines.

I don't know how they can possibly recover people that have been out and on the net researching what has been going on in regards to those who have been in and left.

I asked a lot of questions and found that they can't answer them....they don't know or they aren't willing to look and find out because they aren't interested in looking at entheta. Well, if they can't look at entheta and handle it, how do they ever expect to get people back? The CoS has enturbulated lots of people thru the years and now doesn't want to look at it or handle it? Good luck on recovering people.

I spent probably a total of about 8 hours over several days talking with them, asking questions.....I wanted to know what kind of answers they would come up with and hoped that maybe I could jog someone's stuck viewpoint, but they are all so solidly stuck and certain of what they have been told that questions are answered with rote answers....just like the GAT training for auditors. They can't really converse, they can only parrot.

The oh so sweet caring turned a little hostile when it finally sunk in that I wasn't coming back and I wasn't going to buy any books or extension courses from her.

I guess they spent a lot of time with me, maybe thinking they had a sucker on the other end of the line since I was talking civil and friendly with them and just asking questions instead of attacking them. Since I wasted hours of their time, and they didn't get a stat out of me, I doubt I will be hearing from them again.

The int justice chief spends a large amount of time trying to get
" SPs" to buy books and fund copies for libraries etc.

They are now also looking to do the same for " Illegal PCs."

Programs chief are also spending lots of their time trying to sell basics.

All reported since basics started.

For CO$ its a time of desparation.

 

[FoTi]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The int justice chief spends a large amount of time trying to get
" SPs" to buy books and fund copies for libraries etc.

They are now also looking to do the same for " Illegal PCs."

Programs chief are also spending lots of their time trying to sell basics.

All reported since basics started.

For CO$ its a time of desparation.

In one of my conversations with another lady from CLO, I asked her about the Basic Books to libraries program. There are 18 public libraries along with several college libraries in the area where I live and none of them have the Basic books. I asked her why that is. She said she didn't know. I told her.....go check the libraries around the country and let me know why those books aren't in the libraries. She said she would, but I doubt that she will. It appears that the CoS just filched the public for the money for the Basic Books, but didn't deliver them to the libraries and kept the money instead. If they put them in the libraries, why would anyone pay over $3,000 to read them if they can just go to the library and read them for free? I also saw on Amazon.....the whole set of 18 books is for sale there for $59.00. How the hell do they think they can sell people those books when people can get them so cheep online, if they wanted to have them. I didn't see any of the DVDs, though....just the books.

She also was raving about how they have highest stats ever. I should have asked what stats she was talking about.....maybe that's stats on BS (that stands for bull sh*t , not book sales). She went on and raved about the way the books and tapes have all been organized now with ALL the data (at least until DM gets around to finding more and publishes a whole new set) and raved all about their beautiful new ideal orgs. Sounds like maybe they have become PTS to the middle class.....keeping up with the Joneses, showing off all their money.