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I AM A CHRISTIAN SCIENTOLOGIST

J. Swift said:
Pip, it is interesting to me that you seem to be imposing a gradient, or Bridge structure, upon Christianity:

Grade 0: Salvation
Grade 1: Justification
Grade 2: Sanctification
Grade 3: Glorification

This overlay seems legalistic to me, but I am not you Pip. You are the one working out your own Salvation. I do not know why you need fear and trembling when the New Testament promises Transformation by Divine Grace.

Christianity is Communion with the actual Triune Divine Being described in the Bible and revealed in the person of Christ. If you enjoy Divine Communion, a relationship with God, and the Holy Spirit is active in you as a result of Salvation, then you are already saved, justified, and sanctified. Glorification happens only in the Resurrection when believers are freed from the body of sin and death and God gives them glorified bodies.

Pip, I wish you the best in your attempt to create a fusion of Christianity and Scientology. You should create a blog and post your notes.

*****
The New Testament is unequivocal that Salvation only comes by Faith and God's Grace. Paul's masterful exposition in Ephesians 2 is quite strikingly translated in contemporary English in The Message version of the Bible. Ephesians 2 makes it quite clear that God is the accomplishing power in the Christian life.



ref: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+2&version=MSG

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Thanks for your post. The story goes that a new convert to the faith asked this elderly parson if he was "saved". The parson replied "Young man if the question is am I saved, the answer is Yes! If the question is am I being saved the answer is Yes! and if the question is one day will I be saved the answer is Yes!

Yes when I wrote that 'fear and trembling' bit I wondered whether that was the best choice of words, its a phrase I picked up sonewhere along the way. ( I have just Googled it, apparently it is from Philippians 2:12)

In fact in one sense the Glorification has also already happened, because the Scripture says "We are seated in heavenly places".

I was thinking today - I was born into a Christian Science family and I still have great affection for Mary Baker Eddie. No-one objects to the joining of Christian and Science, and if science means to study and Scientology means to study in the fullest sense of the word, then why would it be so impossible to combine Christianity and Scientology and hence have ChristianScientology.

I do have a blog on my website Christianscientology.info.

Loved that bit from The Message
 
guanoloco said:
This is a great observation...but wait...why stop there? How about the Old Testament and works and/with books of similar teachings...the Tanakh and the Qur'an?

Thought someone, somewhere here on ESMB talked about the closer you get to "the Holy Land" the more like Hell it becomes.

Quite revealing - that.
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A good post from you Guano, as usual. But ...the Tanakh IS the Old Testament, the jewish version as opposed to the version written by Queen James who followed King Elizabeth.
 
Clarence Rockaway said:
Well, Jesus was purportedly the Lamb of God. That is the Passover Lamb. Now, this could not be if at the Last Supper, which everyone but John Hagee knows to be a passover seder, all the little 'pitsivelakh' (details) were not observed. One overlooked ritual and BOOM, no passover lamb is he. Okay, We'll waive the point in that painting The Last Supper, there is only one guy with black hair. The rest are Europeans. Maybe they were Peace Corps, or exchange students who never went back home. Moreover the Baptists insist that Jesus never touched alcohol. In that case there is no passover, because without wine there can't be. What do the Baptists think was in the Holy Grail...diet Dr. Pepper? Moving along, all bread had to have been removed from the Upper Room eight days before the seder or bupkes, no lamb. My mother who wasn't even observant, rid the house of bread eight days before passover. I never knew of a jewish housewife who didn't, even the most secular. Well, take a look at the picture. There are gentile DINNER ROLLS on the table!!! Gevalt! Sorry, Pipeleh, the late J.C.'s bid to be the passover lamb...aborted.
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Pip said:
Thanks Clarence
I'm still hanging on to the fact you like me!:thumbsup:
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Don't despair Pip - I like you too!

And while I can't answer for the Baptists - I can attest that the Methodist solution to the wine & alcohol issue was that Jesus drank only "the pure and unfermented juice of the grape"! Swear ta Gawd, no lie! :yes::unsure::p And I'm pretty sure the Baptists did the same - a boon for Welches I guess!

Carry on troops!

EP
 
EP - Ethics Particle said:
Don't despair Pip - I like you too!

And while I can't answer for the Baptists - I can attest that the Methodist solution to the wine & alcohol issue was that Jesus drank only "the pure and unfermented juice of the grape"! Swear ta Gawd, no lie! :yes::unsure::p And I'm pretty sure the Baptists did the same - a boon for Welches I guess!

Carry on troops!

EP
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Pip, is that the same Christian Science that produced this story...A little boy is walking down the street. He encounters his Christian Science pastor.
"How is your grandmother?" the pastor asks.
"She's sick," the boy replies.
"No son, she just THINKS she's sick." the pastor corrects him. Two weeks later the boy is again walking down the street, and again meets the Christian Science pastor.
"How is your grandmother now?" the man asks. To which the boy replies,
"She thinks she's dead."
 
Clarence Rockaway said:
Pip, is that the same Christian Science that produced this story...A little boy is walking down the street. He encounters his Christian Science pastor.
"How is your grandmother?" the pastor asks.
"She's sick," the boy replies.
"No son, she just THINKS she's sick." the pastor corrects him. Two weeks later the boy is again walking down the street, and again meets the Christian Science pastor.
"How is your grandmother now?" the man asks. To which the boy replies,
"She thinks she's dead."
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The very same :laugh:
 
Pip said:
Thanks for your post. The story goes that a new convert to the faith asked this elderly parson if he was "saved". The parson replied "Young man if the question is am I saved, the answer is Yes! If the question is am I being saved the answer is Yes! and if the question is one day will I be saved the answer is Yes! [/B]
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So can the Christian Scientologist say -- in zero grade Aorist of course -- that he was on the Bridge, is on the Bridge, and will be on the Bridge?

Pip: When you drop this mortal coil and pass on to Glory, you will be perfected by God. Therefore, Scientology will be of no use in Heaven. Given your sanctification/justification/glorification in the past/present/and future that was accomplished by God's finished work in Christ, how can Scientology be claimed to offer a Christian anything of eternal value?

Pip, do you detect an inadequacy or deficit in the Holy Spirit or God's Word such that you must rely upon the works of Man until you come to rest in Heaven?

Also, if demons are cast out in the name of Jesus, then why would a Christian need NOTs? Should not the Blood and Name of Jesus Christ be efficacious to effect deliverance from all unwanted discarnate beings that afflict the Christian?

Do you crucify Christ anew by resort to Scientology?


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EP - Ethics Particle said:
Don't despair Pip - I like you too!

And while I can't answer for the Baptists - I can attest that the Methodist solution to the wine & alcohol issue was that Jesus drank only "the pure and unfermented juice of the grape"! Swear ta Gawd, no lie! :yes::unsure::p And I'm pretty sure the Baptists did the same - a boon for Welches I guess!

Carry on troops!

EP
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If that's the case, grape juice only, then the Methodists and Baptists have disqualified Jesus as the Passover Lamb. Grape juice doesn't cut it. It has to be Ripple, Baby.
 
Clarence Rockaway said:
If that's the case, grape juice only, then the Methodists and Baptists have disqualified Jesus as the Passover Lamb. Grape juice doesn't cut it. It has to be Ripple, Baby.
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Ripple is good, I agree - but consider "Thunderbird"! (malt liquor) :nervous::yes:

"What's the word?" :confused2:

"Thunderbird!" :ohmy:

"What's the price"? :p

"Thirty twice!" :happydance:

EP
 
Pip, I seriously doubt that ANYONE on this board dislikes you.

However we are all a bit wrapped up in our own opinions and we seem to absolutely revel in trying to convince someone that they are wrong headed.

On the whole this approach fails miserably but that never stops us trying.

Of course you are free to hold whatever view you deem fit and if someone outside this little community seriously attacked you for holding those views, I'm sure most of us would come to your defence.

That is not to say that I don't think you are deluded, but that's of no consequence because we probably all are.

Have you planned for your eventual visit to the Pearly Gates?

My advice would be to mention that you are a Christian, but steer well clear of revealing that you also dabbled in the Devil's workshop known as Scientology.

LTG
 
LongTimeGone said:
Have you planned for your eventual visit to the Pearly Gates?
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According to Hubbard, the Pearly Gates were designed and built over 43 Trillion years ago!

"I imagine when we finally manage to communicate with beetles under rocks and free them, we'll no doubt find the Creator of Heaven who 43 + Trillion years ago designed and built the Pearly Gates and entrapped us all.
"Good Lord, I'd hate to be guilty of that overt. But never mind - you aren't either. That guy is GONE (I hope!)", HCO BULLETIN OF MAY 11, AD13


I found that quote on http://www.spiritrestoration.org/Church/Denominations/Scientology_Part_2.htm

SpiritRestoration.Org is the "Premier, Ecumenical Christian Website - A Resource for Mature Christians and Scholars"

It is packed with some interesting resources. :yes:

Here is an excerpt from an article that was linked on that page:

In the 1950's, Hubbard wrote a series of newsletter about his
technical "discoveries" and called them PABS (Professional
Auditor Bulletins). In PAB 31 Hubbard writes:

"Religion does much to keep the assumption in restimulation,
being basically a control mechanism used by those who have
sent the preclear into a body. You will find the cross as a
symbol all over the universe, and the Christ legend as
implant in preclears a million years ago."

In the same article, Hubbard's infers that Jesus Christ was an
agent of a mind-control organization that was imported to Earth:

"A few operating thetans -scarcity- could lead to trouble.
Witness the chaos resulting from the activities and other
determinism technology of one operating thetan, 2,000 years ago.
It is despicable and utterly beneath contempt to tell a man he
must repent, that he is evil. Those who talk most about peace on
earth and good-will among men themselves carry forward the seas
of unrest, war and chaos."

http://www.sweenytod.com/cos//Theology/Theology/joeharr1.txt
 
LongTimeGone said:
Pip, I seriously doubt that ANYONE on this board dislikes you.

However we are all a bit wrapped up in our own opinions and we seem to absolutely revel in trying to convince someone that they are wrong headed.

On the whole this approach fails miserably but that never stops us trying.

Of course you are free to hold whatever view you deem fit and if someone outside this little community seriously attacked you for holding those views, I'm sure most of us would come to your defence.

That is not to say that I don't think you are deluded, but that's of no consequence because we probably all are.

Have you planned for your eventual visit to the Pearly Gates?

My advice would be to mention that you are a Christian, but steer well clear of revealing that you also dabbled in the Devil's workshop known as Scientology.

LTG
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There was a line in front of the Pearly Gates. The first man stepped up to St. Peter and asked, "May I enter Heaven? "You? scoffed St. Pete. "Don't make me laugh. When you were on Earth all you cared about were cars. Fast cars, big cars, expensive cars, sport cars,...you were so obsessed with cars you even married a woman named Mercedes. Take a walk." The man leaves dejectedly.
The next man steps up. "How about me St. Peter? Do I get into Heaven?"
"You! You've got to be joking. When you were on Earth all you cared about was jewelry. The flashier it was the better. Tiffany's, Bulgari, Harry Winston. You were so obsessed with jewelry you even married a woman named Ruby. Get lost!"
The third man in line listening to all of this, turns to his wife in disgust.
"Come on Fanny, let's get outta here."
 
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Clarence Rockaway said:
There was a line in front of the Pearly Gates. The first man stepped up to St. Peter and asked, "May I enter Heaven?"
"You? scoffed St. Pete. "Don't make me laugh. When you were on Earth all you cared about were cars. Fast cars, big cars, expensive cars, sport cars,...you were so obsessed with cars you even married a woman named Mercedes. Take a walk." The man leaves dejectedly.
The next man steps up. "How about me St. Peter? Do I get into Heaven?"
"You! You've got to be joking. When you were on Earth all you cared about was jewelry. The flashier it was the better. Tiffany's, Bulgari, Harry Winston. You were so obsessed with jewelry you even married a woman named Ruby. Get lost!"
The third man in line is listening to all of this, and turns to his wife.
"Come on Fanny, let's get outta here."
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We loved it :roflmao: (without the 'mao'!)
 
SweetnessandLight said:
Pip, I'm interested in asking you this, what understanding did you get from scientology that you couldn't learn from studying Christianity?

Sorry, that post was a little garbled, done on an teeny tiny cell phone!!! :blush:

But I would really like to know...what did Scientology offer you or did you learn there that you couldn't learn via Christianity? Thanks. :)
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Hi SweetnessandLight - somehow I messed this post. I also apologise for any other posts where I was asked a genuine question or someone made a kind remark that I haven't acknowledged.

Science and religion have always been two separate subjects. If my car breaks down I do not ask God to fix it. I get out the manual and study it. If I still can't fix it I study the manual some more or ask someone else with more data. God has never been a father who fixes everything for His children. He expects them to do their part. I am sure He could produce loaves of bread to feed the hungry but instead He does His part in making the seed grow and leaves us to do the rest, hence it is a partnership between love and understanding.
 
J. Swift said:
So can the Christian Scientologist say -- in zero grade Aorist of course -- that he was on the Bridge, is on the Bridge, and will be on the Bridge?

Pip: When you drop this mortal coil and pass on to Glory, you will be perfected by God. Therefore, Scientology will be of no use in Heaven. Given your sanctification/justification/glorification in the past/present/and future that was accomplished by God's finished work in Christ, how can Scientology be claimed to offer a Christian anything of eternal value?

Pip, do you detect an inadequacy or deficit in the Holy Spirit or God's Word such that you must rely upon the works of Man until you come to rest in Heaven?

Also, if demons are cast out in the name of Jesus, then why would a Christian need NOTs? Should not the Blood and Name of Jesus Christ be efficacious to effect deliverance from all unwanted discarnate beings that afflict the Christian?

Do you crucify Christ anew by resort to Scientology?


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No J.Swift - God does not do the perfecting, we do, but at the same time He has done it. past - present - future.

We don't "drop this mortal coil" that's all part of the dream. The truth is we are in heaven dreaming of having a human experience. Scientology is happening in the dream. A Scientologist is not awake they are lucid dreaming.

I am not "relying" upon the works of man anymore than I am relying on the works of men to supply electricity when I want to boil a kettle for a cup of tea. I can't imagine why Christians should need NOT's, in fact I don't even know what NOT's stands for.

I would understand that demons are lies and therefore have no substance in truth.

Lastly, No we only "crucify Christ anew" when we say his work on the cross is not sufficient to save us. Yes, a born again Christian who turns his back on Christ and became a Scientologist would be crucifying Christ anew, but a born again Christian who also embraces Scientology would not only not be crucifying Christ again, but also fulfilling the second great commandment - love your neightbour as you love yourself.
 
LongTimeGone said:
Pip, I seriously doubt that ANYONE on this board dislikes you.

However we are all a bit wrapped up in our own opinions and we seem to absolutely revel in trying to convince someone that they are wrong headed.

On the whole this approach fails miserably but that never stops us trying.

Of course you are free to hold whatever view you deem fit and if someone outside this little community seriously attacked you for holding those views, I'm sure most of us would come to your defence.

That is not to say that I don't think you are deluded, but that's of no consequence because we probably all are.

Have you planned for your eventual visit to the Pearly Gates?

My advice would be to mention that you are a Christian, but steer well clear of revealing that you also dabbled in the Devil's workshop known as Scientology.

LTG
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That's comforting, and thanks for the reassurance.

One of my favourite stable datums is "What you think of me is none of my business".
 
Pip, you present several interesting points of view. I wonder if you are not in fact a Christian Science Scientologist.

A few more questions:

1. If God dwells in Heaven, and you are in Heaven having a dream of a human life, then is not God dreaming you?

Who is the one dreaming you now Pip?

2. Is there only ultimately God dreaming?

If so, is the Dream itself error?

If so, why is a Perfect God having a dream of error?

3. LRH said the primary error was that thetans thought they were one. Contrast this with Christ whose goal is to make all of us One in God. Is Scientology therefore Satanic because it forbids Unity, or Oneness, with God?

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I just find it fascinating, and thoroughly telling, that with all the languages spoken on earth, not to mention the entire universe, the gods and their godets all speak modern English in the dialect of the speakee... Or is heaven only for the modern English speaking? It all gets a little far fetched to say the least...
 
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