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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Here is a really cute song which was sent to me by Smila. The lyrics are precious and the singer and instrumentalists are fantastic. The genre is "Country". Check it out, this song is really cute and the lyrics are quite unexpected"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlaoR5m4L80
Lakey
 
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Predictioin about democracies - Looks pretty accurate!

My cousin Susan sent my this post - some of this has been brought up on this thread and elsewhere recently. What is stated in this post, originally written in 1887, seems to be playing out as expected in the USA. I hope we can change course in 2012.

Subject: Obituary - Very Interesting
In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinborough, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."
The Obituary follows:

Born 1776, Died 2012
It doesn't hurt to read this several times.

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul , Minnesota , points out some interesting facts concerning the last Presidential election:

Number of States won by: Obama: 19 McCain: 29
Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000 McCain: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million McCain: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Obama: 13.2 McCain: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory McCain won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.

Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low income tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegal's - and they vote -
then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message.

If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom..

This is truly scary! Of course we are not a democracy, we are a Constitutional Republic . Someone should point this out to Obama. Of course we know he and too many others pay little attention to The Constitution. There couldn't be more at stake than on Nov 2012.

If you are as concerned as I am please pass this along.

Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I have always shared that one! And it's a good one Gary.

Obama is dramatizing the fact that some cultures have always dominated and suppressed others. But he is bringing into full replication that which he so deeply resents. I guess he thinks his 'team' will be on the throne during the next cycle of human suppression. Perhaps he is 'getting even'. Such deep seated motivators....
 
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Re: Predictioin about democracies - Looks pretty accurate!

lkwdblds said:
My cousin Susan sent my this post - some of this has been brought up on this thread and elsewhere recently. What is stated in this post, originally written in 1887, seems to be playing out as expected in the USA. I hope we can change course in 2012.

Subject: Obituary - Very Interesting
In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinborough, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."
The Obituary follows:

Born 1776, Died 2012
It doesn't hurt to read this several times.

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul , Minnesota , points out some interesting facts concerning the last Presidential election:

Number of States won by: Obama: 19 McCain: 29
Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000 McCain: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million McCain: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Obama: 13.2 McCain: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory McCain won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.

Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low income tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegal's - and they vote -
then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message.

If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom..

This is truly scary! Of course we are not a democracy, we are a Constitutional Republic . Someone should point this out to Obama. Of course we know he and too many others pay little attention to The Constitution. There couldn't be more at stake than on Nov 2012.

If you are as concerned as I am please pass this along.

Lakey
Click to expand...

Y'all need to paint a sign on your foreheads, reading: "SUCKER"

starting with 19 states plus 29 states equals 48. Maybe for Ike versus Adlai, but not this century. Last I heard a governor of Alaska (not one of the 48) ran for vice president in that there election.

Obama carried 28 states plus DC, guess how many McCain carried. (Hint 50 minus 28 equals.....)

here is what Snopes had to say

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/athenian.asp
 
Re: Predictioin about democracies - Looks pretty accurate!

CarmeloOrchards said:
Y'all need to paint a sign on your foreheads, reading: "SUCKER"

starting with 19 states plus 29 states equals 48. Maybe for Ike versus Adlai, but not this century. Last I heard a governor of Alaska (not one of the 48) ran for vice president in that there election.

Obama carried 28 states plus DC, guess how many McCain carried. (Hint 50 minus 28 equals.....)

here is what Snopes had to say

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/athenian.asp
Click to expand...


Interesting irony in that for the most part it's the 'red states' which are the national welfare queens and the 'blue states' which carry the economic burden. :biggrin:


Mark A. Baker
 
Political Stuff

Opinions, opinions, opinions. Political theatre! I find it more interesting than the Super Bowl. Why? Because what these self-serving elitists do affects me in some way sooner or later. When JFK announced that we should trip to the moon my dream position became working as an engineer at NASA. When LBJ wanted to draft my ass into the Army my escape route was to join the Navy where they made me an electronics technician.

Oh, yeah. What happens in D.C. does have an affect on me, so I remain interested in what goes on. My influence on who gets elected is practically nil. My influence on what they do in office is nil. I can write. I can speak out. That might count for much. It might count for nothing. But whatever I do or don't do, it is in self defense.

LRH was right when he wrote that cultures are frail things; they do not survive. Too many assholes in positions of power and influence think that they know best. And Man is flawed. LRH traveled in that same boat. As I said, self-defense. Had I practiced self-defense I would have left Scientology much sooner--or never started at all.

:thumbsup:
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Nice posts above on the "political" scene.

My observation is that there are two classes of folks who screw up society and "democracies": The dishonest class and the professional-victim-help-me-out-sympathize-with-me-class each of which produces nothing of value and only takes.

R
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

RogerB said:
Nice posts above on the "political" scene.

My observation is that there are two classes of folks who screw up society and "democracies": The dishonest class and the professional-victim-help-me-out-sympathize-with-me-class each of which produces nothing of value and only takes.

R
Click to expand...


I agree, Roger. Both classes produce nothing of value. They are takers. Criminals exist at all economic strata. The bottom line on economic criminality is, "something for nothing."
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

RogerB said:
Nice posts above on the "political" scene.

My observation is that there are two classes of folks who screw up society and "democracies": The dishonest class and the professional-victim-help-me-out-sympathize-with-me-class each of which produces nothing of value and only takes.

R
Click to expand...

What is your opinion of the value of compassion in the character of a Human being?

In a civil society, what are our responsibilities to one another?

Do you consider it reasonable that those who through no fault of their own, need some support from those more fortunate than themselves should be given that support?

Examples:

A person disastrously disabled in a terror attack.

A young person disastrously disabled by Meningitis.

A person disastrously disabled by a hit and run driver who was never caught.

A child born to a poor family with a severe congenital defect.

I'm interested in your opinion after reading the above post and would like to understand more fully the meaning of what you said.



 
my take on people --- OMG I can't believe I wrote this, it is so disjointed

I **think**

(there is NO PREACHING HERE)

that Pan Am was a great airline

that Edison was a great inventor

that Steve Jobs is and was and always will be a great visionary

that Michael Ritchie (RIP) was a greatly under acknowledged director. (Downhill Racers, The Candidate, The Positively True Adventures of the Alleged TEXAS Cheerleader Mom)

that Palm was a great company

My point being:

There are some highly **GIFTED** individuals, who have contributed much to those of us on this planet. Not everyone has been rewarded with approbation.

Having said that, I'd like to move on, and say that blaming welfare moms for the economy is about as stupid as the flat Earth society.

As a guy named Lord Acton said:

(John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902). The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887)

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

not to point fingers, but I've seen it happen to me.

On the USA landscape, of which I am most familiar, the ONLY politician I have truly agreed with to the core was Barry Goldwater, senator from Arizona, presidential candidate in 1963-64. He was for small business, individual rights, states rights, winning in Viet Nam or LEAVING, a libertarian in Republican dress.

He is another person, who I would categorize as a "almost winner, if not for his integrity"

It seems that real integrity forwards the culture, but is not necessarily a winner in the marketplace of ideas.


Ronald Reagan, who gave the keynote speech at the San Francisco nomination of Barry Goldwater for president in 1963, became president.---- a very good man. One, who I admire greatly, but one, who was susceptible to compromising his own ideals and values. (I AM NOT SAYING, "I could do it better")

I think Ronnie is / was a great man.

Frankly I am confused. Complete integrity to me, means, opening doors, changing values, out of the box thinking, but not necessarily, immediate success.

Some do, most don't.

Billie Jean King was such a person. She blazed trails in women's tennis. The rewards (monetary and fame) largely came later for others.

Who do you or I want to be? Full integrity, with no fame? Partial integrity with huge fame? None of the above?

All answers are right.

On the negative side.

Who we gonna blame?

The nutcases like Hitler or LRH?

The do gooders like Teddy Kennedy and George McGovern?

The talented, yet selfish, like Gary Hart (Colorado Senator), John Edwards (North Carolina Senator)?

Wall Street?

Me?

I see it as a sociology question.

As people, we all have positive goals and dreams. When crushed, we all seek security with a safe mind set.

If we aren't advancing to our goal(s) we are seeking security.

Those with power, usually become encrusted with holding on to the power, integrity takes a back seat.

Integrity is a losing proposition in the NOW marketplace, but a winner in history's marketplace.

Does this make any sense?


?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
Re: Predictioin about democracies - Looks pretty accurate!

Mark A. Baker said:
Interesting irony in that for the most part it's the 'red states' which are the national welfare queens and the 'blue states' which carry the economic burden. :biggrin:


Mark A. Baker
Click to expand...

Its not a simple matter to figure which states carry the economic burden. Take a state such as Montana, huge in area, bigger than the size of Germany, with only 989,000 population in the entire state as ccompared to Germany's 82,000,000. They probably do not have inner city slums and probably not very many people are on welfare so they are not an economic burder in that sense. That is typical of many of the red states.

The blue states usually contain the huge cities with huge concentrations of population. The only exception to the rule seems to be Texas with 3 huge metropolitan areas while remaining a red state. It is in the large cities such as Chicago and L.A. were the poorer people tend to cluster and and a high percentage of them are receiving government assistence.

Another oddity is that if you take a big state like California, within the state, most of the counties are red but overall, the state is very heavily blue. The areas which are blue in mainly in the huge metropolitan areas of L.A. and the Bay Area. In a state of 158,000 sq miles, if you look at a state map showing the volting in all of the counties, the state looks red when it is actually blue. Huge inland counties such as Riverside and San Bernardino are vast expanses of red while the smaller counties in land area, around the bay area, have a large population and are heavily blue.

It is the blue areas where most of the factories exist and where most of the banks, financial institutions and universities are located. Probably more revenue is generated from the blue areas of the state so one could say that those areas are carrying the economic burden but then again those blue areas also contain most of the welfare recipients so one could also say that they are also creating the most economic burden on the tax payers.
Lakey
 
Re: my take on people --- OMG I can't believe I wrote this, it is so disjointed

CarmeloOrchards said:
I **think**

(there is NO PREACHING HERE)

that Pan Am was a great airline

that Edison was a great inventor

that Steve Jobs is and was and always will be a great visionary

that Michael Ritchie (RIP) was a greatly under acknowledged director. (Downhill Racers, The Candidate, The Positively True Adventures of the Alleged TEXAS Cheerleader Mom)

that Palm was a great company

My point being:

There are some highly **GIFTED** individuals, who have contributed much to those of us on this planet. Not everyone has been rewarded with approbation.

This is true.

Having said that, I'd like to move on, and say that blaming welfare moms for the economy is about as stupid as the flat Earth society.

As a guy named Lord Acton said:

(John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902). The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887)

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

This often happens but there are many exceptions. Many of the USA Founding Fathers come to mind, Washington, Jefferson, Ben Franklin, et al. How about Abraham Lincoln, Henry Ford, Albert Einstein? Coming closer to present day, how about Oprah Winfrey?

not to point fingers, but I've seen it happen to me.

On the USA landscape, of which I am most familiar, the ONLY politician I have truly agreed with to the core was Barry Goldwater, senator from Arizona, presidential candidate in 1963-64. He was for small business, individual rights, states rights, winning in Viet Nam or LEAVING, a libertarian in Republican dress.

He is another person, who I would categorize as a "almost winner, if not for his integrity"

It seems that real integrity forwards the culture, but is not necessarily a winner in the marketplace of ideas.


I definitely agree.

Ronald Reagan, who gave the keynote speech at the San Francisco nomination of Barry Goldwater for president in 1963, became president.---- a very good man. One, who I admire greatly, but one, who was susceptible to compromising his own ideals and values. (I AM NOT SAYING, "I could do it better")

I think Ronnie is / was a great man.

Frankly I am confused. Complete integrity to me, means, opening doors, changing values, out of the box thinking, but not necessarily, immediate success.

Some do, most don't.

Billie Jean King was such a person. She blazed trails in women's tennis. The rewards (monetary and fame) largely came later for others.

Who do you or I want to be? Full integrity, with no fame? Partial integrity with huge fame? None of the above?

All answers are right.

I believe that each person needs to strive for full integrity without any consideration being given to fame. If fame comes from what they have done, so much the better but holding onto one's integrity only for the sake of integrity is what really counts.

On the negative side.

Who we gonna blame?

The nutcases like Hitler or LRH?

The do gooders like Teddy Kennedy and George McGovern?

The talented, yet selfish, like Gary Hart (Colorado Senator), John Edwards (North Carolina Senator)?

Wall Street?

Me?

I see it as a sociology question.

As people, we all have positive goals and dreams. When crushed, we all seek security with a safe mind set.

If we aren't advancing to our goal(s) we are seeking security.

Those with power, usually become encrusted with holding on to the power, integrity takes a back seat.

Integrity is a losing proposition in the NOW marketplace, but a winner in history's marketplace.

Does this make any sense?


?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Click to expand...

Its a bit difficult but I see sense in what you have written. On the issue of integrity, I would say further, If one maintains their personal integrity, just for the sake of their integrity alone, they should achieve the "self esteem" which modern day education is trying to engender in every school student. In fact, that is the only way to achieve self esteem - by being true to oneself and one's own goals.

Rewards of fame and fortune are desired by many people but not all. I would rather feel I had held up my personal integrity and not be famous or rich than to have compromised my integrity and to gain fame and fortune.

Someone llike former Senator John Edward's, whom you mention above, is the poster boy for how not to live one's life as far as I'm concerned. The man has no integrity whatsoever and yet was pompous and put on a show of having great integrity.

He was not very convincing, even I could see through him immediately. He got pretty far in life and then the light of truth shone on his deeds and he was exposed for what he really is. Just the other day, new crimes against him have emerged regarding his spending of millions in campaign donations towards non campaign activities.
Lakey
 
Re: Predictioin about democracies - Looks pretty accurate!

lkwdblds said:
Its not a simple matter to figure which states carry the economic burden. Take a state such as Montana, huge in area, bigger than the size of Germany, with only 989,000 population in the entire state as ccompared to Germany's 82,000,000. They probably do not have inner city slums and probably not very many people are on welfare so they are not an economic burder in that sense. That is typical of many of the red states.

The blue states usually contain the huge cities with huge concentrations of population. The only exception to the rule seems to be Texas with 3 huge metropolitan areas while remaining a red state. It is in the large cities such as Chicago and L.A. were the poorer people tend to cluster and and a high percentage of them are receiving government assistence.

Another oddity is that if you take a big state like California, within the state, most of the counties are red but overall, the state is very heavily blue. The areas which are blue in mainly in the huge metropolitan areas of L.A. and the Bay Area. In a state of 158,000 sq miles, if you look at a state map showing the volting in all of the counties, the state looks red when it is actually blue. Huge inland counties such as Riverside and San Bernardino are vast expanses of red while the smaller counties in land area, around the bay area, have a large population and are heavily blue.

It is the blue areas where most of the factories exist and where most of the banks, financial institutions and universities are located. Probably more revenue is generated from the blue areas of the state so one could say that those areas are carrying the economic burden but then again those blue areas also contain most of the welfare recipients so one could also say that they are also creating the most economic burden on the tax payers.
Lakey
Click to expand...

I think the REAL WELFARE QUEENS reside in the military industrial educational complex of revolving government doors and friendly handshakes.

Texas, while Bush 2 was in office, received a bodacious amount of government money transferred from other states (California mainly). The real drain is from the good ole boy clubs.

The congressman from San Diego who went to jail for taking millions in bribes from defense contractors is just a pimple on the face of the problem. Dick Cheney's Halliburton didn't fare badly under the Bush 2 presidency. No bid contracts make for good friendships.
 
Re: Predictioin about democracies - Looks pretty accurate!

CarmeloOrchards said:
I think the REAL WELFARE QUEENS reside in the military industrial educational complex of revolving government doors and friendly handshakes.

Texas, while Bush 2 was in office, received a bodacious amount of government money transferred from other states (California mainly). The real drain is from the good ole boy clubs.

The congressman from San Diego who went to jail for taking millions in bribes from defense contractors is just a pimple on the face of the problem. Dick Cheney's Halliburton didn't fare badly under the Bush 2 presidency. No bid contracts make for good friendships.
Click to expand...

Nah, you got that back to front . . . they are not the "WELFARE QUEENS": they are the dishonest who dishonestly milk the system with their deceit. What you refer to above are those who dishonestly rape the the system by causative use of deceit and fraud.

The professional victim class (note that word "professional" victim) I speak of are those who are not honestly incompetent or injured or momentarily "down on their luck" who deserve and need a helping hand and who a) thank you and who then b) DO something above lifting themselves up . . . but those who milk the system and those who pose as being in need and/or of bail outs etc., etc., while at the same time refusing to get off their lazy arses and produce anything but who want to live off the production of others.

I am old enough to be a child of the "great depression" . . . . I have seen the difference between honest need and pseudo, professional victim-hood shit.

Do-gooders routinely get suckered in by the professional victims class, as do politicians who what their votes . . . and so, the demise of productive society . . . with the most advanced example of this being the UK at the moment. The US is following in the same direction.

R
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It's 4:00 am.... that hour when anything goes!

[video=youtube;rXVZdBZ8JkA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXVZdBZ8JkA&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

:biggrin:

Ooooh, Ooooh and this one.
( yeah, it's a lonely Friday night)

[video=youtube;_oPxa3C3iu0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oPxa3C3iu0&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
 
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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I see Hats is back on deck, posting for our daily delight :biggrin:

How was the trip south?

And I think you're right . . . . at 4:00am, I suppose anything does go if you're up and about! :ohmy:

R
 
Re: Predictioin about democracies - Looks pretty accurate!

RogerB said:
Nah, you got that back to front . . . they are not the "WELFARE QUEENS": they are the dishonest who dishonestly milk the system with their deceit. What you refer to above are those who dishonestly rape the the system by causative use of deceit and fraud.

The professional victim class (note that word "professional" victim) I speak of are those who are not honestly incompetent or injured or momentarily "down on their luck" who deserve and need a helping hand and who a) thank you and who then b) DO something above lifting themselves up . . . but those who milk the system and those who pose as being in need and/or of bail outs etc., etc., while at the same time refusing to get off their lazy arses and produce anything but who want to live off the production of others.

I am old enough to be a child of the "great depression" . . . . I have seen the difference between honest need and pseudo, professional victim-hood shit.

Do-gooders routinely get suckered in by the professional victims class, as do politicians who what their votes . . . and so, the demise of productive society . . . with the most advanced example of this being the UK at the moment. The US is following in the same direction.

R
Click to expand...

Thanks for the answer Roger - even if it was delivered indirectly. That makes things perfectly clear. Those genuinely in need deserve support. I agree.
 
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