What's new

The State of Clear

... It is not Scientology (or any "technology") that is causing this. It is the seeking that is causing this. In my opinion.

It is the looking that produces the epiphanies. Auditing done well is excellent for assisting that process and producing such results. Many of the specific processes involved in standard scientology auditing can be used reliably and to such a purpose.


Mark A. Baker
 
That certainly may be, although that restriction doesn't seem to be included in every Scientologists' criteria. It appears that, for some, any old epiphany will do.

But even if it is that one thought, so what? Saying "I'm mocking it up!" doesn't confer any abilities, powers, benefits or whatnot. If you look at the mass of "Clears" that Scientology has certified, they are just plain, ordinary folks still with normal problems, illnesses, troubles and difficulties.

If having this epiphany confers something unusual or special, it has never manifested itself in the real world. Certainly not for me. Certainly not for any of the "Clears" I have met.

My primary point is that if the only definition and description of "Clear" is: "person said a specific phrase", then it's a pretty useless "State", isn't it?

Personally, I wouldn't consider "I'm mocking it up" to be a great truth anyway -- which would explain why "realizing" that doesn't seem to change anyone's life.


I went Clear on Scientology. I had the Clear cog.

"I'm mocking it"​

Well, it was kinda the clear-outta-scientology cog. Ability attained was that I could mock Scientology, which had been fully suppressed up until that point. At that moment, there was a very distinctive blow. Me.

That's when I became full and knowing cause over financial matter, energy, space and time on the first dynamic and the registrars went into apathy and suddenly blew as well. My psychosomatic case blew too, along with all those deniers and bouncers from my bank--well the bank calls them denied payment and bounced checks.
 
Last edited:
I haven't studied Quantum physics, but a couple of people (Robert Anton Wilson, & black magician Alan Moore) have remarked (and this is how i interpret it) that once a persons 'reality' belief changes, physical manifestation alters, and real time change has allegedly been observed by physicists.

Its an interesting concept, another is whatever you are looking for you will find,

The amount of cultures with different beliefs , realities, realness, and the joining dots in their arguments is present in any culture.

The power a belief exerts back on the person who believes is interesting too.

I read parts 6 & 7 of Plato's The republic recently (interpreted by oxford scholar Benjamin Jowett in the 1800s.) i recognised m a n y Hubbard sayings, one that stuck out is all knowledge is already in the individual.
 
The State of Clear is fully valid. The difference between you now and you when you are Clear is enormous and is well worth striving for. Infinitely so. But that last para of mine in the above post is completely accurate.

You can take any of the grades from Life Repair on up, any process almost, and if you demand that ts EP be attained in an absolute sense then you would have the OTest OT that anyone ever saw. Any grade at all taken to its absolute would give you this. But they are grades. None of them is an absolute ultimate. And despite what LRH reckoned before he popped, Clear is NOT an absolute state. It ghas gradients. And he determining factor in the gradient is you yourself.
Before going OT one must become Clear. But the engrams do not exist, as the research done at NYU shows. Therefore, no one can go OT. All OT gains are imaginary and mean nothing.
 
The Aberree [B said:
May 1954[/B]]
Volume 1, Number 2 Published at Enid, Oklahoma, U.S.A.

How Optimum Is a "Clear"?

ONE OF THE most abused, maligned, and misunderstood words in the language of Dianetics and Scientology is the word "clear".

In L. Ron Hubbard's first book, "DIANETICS, the Modern Science of Mental Health", a "clear" was described as a person "without psychoses, neuroses, compulsions, and repressions", and "high above the current norm" in intelligence. A steady improvement in perceptics also could be expected.

Almost immediately, the word itself began to manifest the entire gamut of human aberration. It became both a beacon of desire and the "sour grapes" of unattainability. For the latter, the word took on magnitudes that would have given a "clear" the attributes of the highest of the gods.

The "clear" (Mr. Hubbard said) --even though he wore glasses an inch thick--might expect to start showing marked improvement in his eyesight, often changing glasses four or five times during therapy. The exaggerationists, glossing over the gradient of expected improvement, immediately assigned to the "clear" superlative vision. To wear glasses was to place one low on the Tone Scale (a hypothetical chart predicting what might be expected of an individual under any given circumstance.) Many, fearing that their visual deficiency would be self-invalidating, tortured and squinted and strained in stubborn misery, "knowing" that in time even small print would be no harder to read than was that big sign across the street with the dancing, foggy letters. Sometimes, in the privacy of their rooms, they'd sneak out their "cheaters", but though they could read better, the "overt act" against Dianetics was a new "lock" on their guilt chain.

The moment a hen-pecked husband found himself driven to the necessity of sassing his wife, he "knew" by the exhilaration of redeemed self-respect that, at last, he was

page3

a clear. The loafer who could look at a job without being tempted by the salary it paid could gloat to the friend from whom he borrowed coffee money that he was a self-determined clear. The bedfast individual who had made life miserable for his friends and family for years could, by taking the few necessary steps that returned circulation to his feet and legs, regain the wavering attention by announcing that he had processed himself into the state of clear. There even was a way to do it with mirrors.

These persons were rid of neither their compulsions nor neuroses. They are part of the great family of aberrees that would gladly throw themselves on a pile of burning faggots if they knew that the deed would obtain for them a few minutes of hungered-for attention.

In the three years since the first book, the word "clear" has been changed, altered, and even hyphenated. No longer is a clear someone who has turned off a headache, or "remembered" what Mamma said to Papa during his conception, or decided not to act like Grandpa just because he hid Grandpa's cane which made Grandpa fall down and break his scrawny neck. Even the ability to read the small type on the editorial page of The Daily Sunsation, or to hear the undertones of a symphony muffled behind the bleating of a tobacco auctioneer, do not guarantee the properties of a clear.

A MEST clear -- 1953 definition -- had no present day problems, and had cleared up all the occlusion of this lifetime. It was a big order -- but some, after only a few hours of processing (and that from auditors who were far from optimum themselves), announced boldly that they'd hit the jackpot; that, on this merry-go-rouhd of life, they'd found the gold ring.

You don't evaluate, you don't invalidate, but like Ernest, in "The Great Stone Face" by Nathaniel Hawthorne, many of us came hopefully to see, and having seen, sadly turned away. Instead of the miracle we'd expected, we found a person who, under other circumstances and in different environment, might have been expected to park a hand under the lapel of his coat and insist, with great certainty, that he was Napoleon Bonaparte.

With the transition from Dianetics to Scientology -- and the discovery that the thetan and the body could go their separate ways -- the "clear" became more of a variable. One who merely "gets out" is only a "release". A "theta clear" (Issue 24-G, Journal of Scientology) "is a relative, not an absolute term. It means that the person, this thought unit, is clear of his body, his engrams, his facsimiles, but can handle and safely control a body." In the Doctorate Course, the added ability of not being drawn back into the body if the body is hurt or injured is part of the definition.

There may be clears. There even may be lots of clears. It's even possible that some of those who say they're clears are clears. And maybe, to return to the analogy of Hawthorne's Ernest, those who look and turn sadly away are refusing to look upon themselves. We expect a miracle -- not seekers of lost gold mines, not a person in rags and dirt living off the charity of the unarrived, not a person who'll lie to escape blame, even as you and I.

Apparently, the accomplishment of optimum goals as yet is merely theoretical. Possibly, too many have become over-sold on the idea that it's "simple -- there's nothing to it", and a clever auditor can get results in a few minutes or a few hours. They're waiting for something to happen TO them -- with a minimum of work and study. Or, if they can afford it, they think they can take course after course, and like the rich youth of Saint Matthew, buy themselves into the Kingdom of Attainment.

There are goals above theta clear: cleared theta clear and operating thetan, but for the present, we'll settle for one person on the bottom of the ladder. Nor need they demonstrate the ability to levitate their car across a police-jammed intersection. In a nation becoming shackled by controls of church and state, and steeped in the belief that we must continually prepare to destroy another segment of the world in order to survive, there is much room for a clear to demonstrate his powers in these channels of government. Or in the educational system. Or the communications field.

Maybe it's the word itself that is jamming up the computing machine. When you "clear" a computer, you don't merely remove the implanted number that's giving you wrong totals, you reduce the entire sum to a starting point of zero. Maybe none of us ever will attain this hypothetical goal until we're ready and willing to erase the whole sum and quit trying to find one or two numbers that we think stand between us and it.

Mr. Hubbard has said himself that our goal is to be nothing -- and that's all we ever can become. Maybe that's why we never see a real, honest-to-God clear -- there's nothing there. As for the pseudotype (quoting from I Corinthians), "God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty".

A Equals A Equals A, And Thus Dianetics Is Equal to Scientology

http://www.aberree.com/v01/n02p01.html
 
For me, mental mass and unwanted and often painful mental pictures were quite real. They were real to me long before I ever heard of Dianetics or scientology. I called them parts of my Subconcious Mind before I ever heard the term Reactive Mind.

I understand that my mental image pictures were not and have never been real to you. They were, however, real to me and I was affected by them in various ways right up to the moment that I realised I was creating them myself. It's just my experience, it's not yours.
That's fine and I don't have a single problem with that. But that does not "prove" anything about a "Reactive Mind". That's just asserted by Hubbard and accepted by his followers. The existence of one does not prove the existence of the other.
 
Only in part. In my experience epiphanies occur frequently in auditing. They also occur without auditing but less frequently. I had the benefit of experiencing a few epiphanies over the years before my involvement with scientology. The great attraction of scientology auditing for me was that it served as a way of rapidly achieving successive epiphanies, something I had not previously encountered. Moreover, it's a fairly simple regimen and one that individuals can be easily trained in.

Subsequently I had many more epiphanies, both "large" & "small", before I attested clear. And even more since. Clear was more along the lines of an 'oh, guess what' type of epiphany for me, in that it was a recognition of a new perception about my state of being, rather than an 'earthshattering realization' in its own right.


Mark A. Baker

I have had many epiphanies in life, before, during and after Scientology. Though, I have always been a person who "works on myself", very comfortable with "inner looking, self-evaluation and self-questioning", and that might have more than a little to do with this.

But also, as I see it, one should get to a point where this constant desire or need for "realizations" ends. I did see a tendency of Scientologists to constantly look for the "congition" and the "sorting out of past misunderstandings" that now resulted in a "wow, oh I get it NOW".

It seems that to some degree people in Scientology get conditioned to always be looking for the "cogs". They can get stuck on that.

Get into PT, realize that all the misunderstandings and resultant "sorting outs" were simply YOUR MIND doing what it does, get over it, and live a kind, generous and decent life while you are "here".

I really don't think there is any "bigger" cog than the one mentioned in the last sentence.

Now, maybe the cog for "clear" is "oh I mocked up my reactive bank". A better cog is that you mocked up EVERYTHING "in your mind", on every level, conscious and unconscious, bad AND good, and that they are ALL "creations" of YOURS.

Dianetics and "clear" only deals with a very SMALL and limited aspect of any mind. For instance, while the imagination may have something to do with RUNNING dianetics, and more than a few incidents might be "made up by the PC", the imagination encompasses FAR MORE than what dianetics and "clear" addresses.

And, past that, maybe in the end, for you, every aspect of every universe you find yourself in, to some degree, maybe "here" too, also, at least to "no small degree", YOU mocked it UP! :omg:

You are a creative being. So, now, get over it. Move on, and create wonderful glorious realities that bring many smiles of joy to others. :confused2:

Stop trying to "fix yourself". Get fixed already, and LIVE.
 
Last edited:
Before going OT one must become Clear. But the engrams do not exist, as the research done at NYU shows. Therefore, no one can go OT. All OT gains are imaginary and mean nothing.

:duh::duh::duh: When an auditor comes back and says he process "didn't work" the first thing a C/S should do is ask "What did the auditor actually do?" Invariably it will be found that he did something other than what was ordered.

The above is an LRH datum and it happens to be very true.

This so called and oft-repeated "proof" of NYU is completely worthless. And for a hundred reasons which I can't be bothered going into.
 
For me, mental mass and unwanted and often painful mental pictures were quite real. They were real to me long before I ever heard of Dianetics or scientology. I called them parts of my Subconcious Mind before I ever heard the term Reactive Mind.

I understand that my mental image pictures were not and have never been real to you. They were, however, real to me and I was affected by them in various ways right up to the moment that I realised I was creating them myself. It's just my experience, it's not yours.

Funny stuff ! This reminds me of a child frightened of things going bump in the night. Whatever is going 'bump" being proven by the fright the child feels. Folks that IS insanity !

So if that poster feels " mental mass " ( <-- scientological term lays claim to well before scientology ?) that means the mental mass proves the existence of WTF ever . Well, OK. But that IS insane.

So, perhaps if I see giant green ugly screaming monsters it means they exist ?
I tried to tell you readers that the monsters are real you would tell me what...that I am insane? Yep.

Old Hub-the-turdcame up with catnip for humans - and, apparently, some are not going to be addicted to it forever ( more scientoligicaly correct : on up their future time track ) but they have this compulsion to sell it to any others that will listen.

This "clear" crap is part of the Hub-the-turd had in his catnip for humans. It is one of his ways of using people.

A wise friend of mine once said a man should use his religion, not be used by his religon.

scn use people. It is that simple. One can call scn a religion, a philosophy or anything else that please one to think of it as.od svn ) Regardless, while it may may sense to the one doing it ( like the child in fear of the bump in the night ) it does not make any sense at all to sane people ( those outside the cult ).

Look at like this : If scn really could produce a "clear" why would people not be lined up around the block ( a la the latest Apple product ) at evey org around the world ?

Just step outside the insanity ( cult, for the squeamish that can't face reality ) and come up an answer to "why" there are not lines around the block to go "clear".

( Hint : this thread offers some mild suggestions as to the "why" there ain't no big lines of people clamoring to go "clear" )

Why are there no lines for this greatest thing to be invented since fire?

Anybody curious about?
 
... But also, as I see it, one should get to a point where this constant desire or need for "realizations" ends. ... .

Not completely. :no:

Your point that it needn't interfere with other activities is valid. However, each shift in perspective which occurs as a result of an epiphany establishes a different worldview based on different operant assumptions & considerations. These in turn allow for additional prospects of epiphanies as those assumptions & considerations become in turn subject to looking. This process is often likened to attaining to a series of successive new plateaus while ascending a height.

Arguably a Buddhist, or similar seeker of enlightenment, might contend that the process isn't complete until all such considerations have been stripped away. Whether such a state is achievable at all, it is certainly not a state compatible with the human condition as it is commonly experienced given that that condition is dependent on the many assumptions and considerations not only of the self but of others.

As you indicate however, that process of proceeding need not prevent a measure of outside engagement with 'life' along the way. But that which an individual should pursue is that which that individual considers to be the most appropriate & ethical path to pursue for himself.

One size does not fit all. Attempts by others to indicate The Proper Course for a person's life are ultimately no more than attempts to enforce a uniform moral standard for all and with all the potential for abuse that may entail.


Mark A. Baker
 
:duh::duh::duh: When an auditor comes back and says he process "didn't work" the first thing a C/S should do is ask "What did the auditor actually do?" Invariably it will be found that he did something other than what was ordered.

The above is an LRH datum and it happens to be very true.

No. It is NOT true. It is pure BS. That " you believe it " does not make it true. Please

This so called and oft-repeated "proof" of NYU is completely worthless. And for a hundred reasons which I can't be bothered going into.

It is pretty easy to get why 'can't be bothered going into it' You can't. You have no ability to refute the truth - and that you do know.

I'll bite on the " didn't work ".

So is "clear" a product of auditing? Well. show me just one "clear" per LRHs definition or I do have to suspect the " auditing didn't work ".

Since there have been over 60 years of auditing - and God only knows how many thousands upon thousands of hours of it - were is a "clear"? Just one real "clear".

Are you going to tell me in all the people who became trained auditors that every single one of 'em in every single seesion did "something other than was ordered"?


Is that your story and you are going to stick to it?

You are aware there are posters here who delivered thousands of hours of auditing with a fair amount of it be recorded or taped, right?

You are aware there are some posters here who trained by old LRH hisself, right?

And then there was old LRH hisself who, not achieving what he claimed on the grade chart, did not follow instructions?

Really, dude?

Lordy, how about an OT? How come so many OT 7s ( EP = Cause over life ) & OT 8s ( SP= truth revealed ) are dropping like flies?

Did all of them not do it right, too ?

So not one of the some 50,000 who attested to "clear" or several thousand who have done some OT level just got something other than " standard tech"?

Oh, if the EP of OT 8 is " Truth Revealed " and, then, if you personally have not attested ( validly, per your own definition as set forth above ) then how can it be you have truth? See the problem?

Leon, you have a mass of contridictions ( and contrary data ) which you can not even begin to explain - even to yourself -and- certainly not in a post.... LOL !
 
I'll bite on the " didn't work ".

So is "clear" a product of auditing? Well. show me just one "clear" per LRHs definition or I do have to suspect the " auditing didn't work ".

Since there have been over 60 years of auditing - and God only knows how many thousands upon thousands of hours of it - were is a "clear"? Just one real "clear".

Are you going to tell me in all the people who became trained auditors that every single one of 'em in every single seesion did "something other than was ordered"?


Is that your story and you are going to stick to it?

You are aware there are posters here who delivered thousands of hours of auditing with a fair amount of it be recorded or taped, right?

You are aware there are some posters here who trained by old LRH hisself, right?

And then there was old LRH hisself who, not achieving what he claimed on the grade chart, did not follow instructions?

Really, dude?

Lordy, how about an OT? How come so many OT 7s ( EP = Cause over life ) & OT 8s ( SP= truth revealed ) are dropping like flies?

Did all of them not do it right, too ?

So not one of the some 50,000 who attested to "clear" or several thousand who have done some OT level just got something other than " standard tech"?

Oh, if the EP of OT 8 is " Truth Revealed " and, then, if you personally have not attested ( validly, per your own definition as set forth above ) then how can it be you have truth? See the problem?

Leon, you have a mass of contridictions ( and contrary data ) which you can not even begin to explain - even to yourself -and- certainly not in a post.... LOL !
When one reads the "processes" that are supposed to take you to heightened states of being, you realize that these are nothing but a collection of brain teasers whereby you create a mass, take down the mass, create another mass, then take it down repeatedly. Then you’re supposed to realize that you’re just mocking it up after you’ve been conditioned to believe that it’s all deathly real!?! This is the case whether you are looking at clearing course processes, the L’s etc. up through OT8. Then the EP is that you’ve been running case that none of which is yours. In fact, as it turns out this is your 1st life incarnate upon Earth after all the selling it took to convince you to run “whole track.” Scientology is by far the biggest bag of shit I’ve ever stepped in. We would have come out ahead to have just done Reader’s Digest crossword puzzles the past 30 years…
 
Funny stuff ! <snip opinionated bullshit>
You are way off the beam, Toad.

There are whole schools of Mental Healing devoted to dealing with unwanted pictures, mass, emotions, attitudes, sensations and pains. Dianetics is just one of the Johnny-come-lately practices to address a phenomena that has been considered real and treatable for quite some time pre-Dianetics.

You may well have lost your mind, others obviously didn't.
 
Re: The utter and complete folly of "state" Clear ( aka Super Gullible )

You are way off the beam, Toad.

There are whole schools of Mental Healing devoted to dealing with unwanted pictures, mass, emotions, attitudes, sensations and pains. Dianetics is just one of the Johnny-come-lately practices to address a phenomena that has been considered real and treatable for quite some time pre-Dianetics.

You may well have lost your mind, others obviously didn't.

And where is one of these " clears" ?

You can't dredge up even ONE clear after 60 years of trying can you ?

Surely if you are going to claim results of this great " whole school" you will be able to have just one clear ( per the definition of your beloved mentor, LRH ).

I agree, I have nothing but very highly opinionated bull shit and you will put forth the evidence in the form of just one "clear" ( per the definition set forth by LRH ).
At which time I will gladly apologize you and all the other culties - plus I'll delete all my posts on this thread.

You can do that, right? You not just blowing unsupportable 'things' to prove the unproveable state, are you?

It has been 60 years since this " clear " was introduced as " the greatest thing since the invention of fire " ( or was it greater than fire? ) and surely if you can achieve in making it known then the orgs will be swamped and there will be lines around the block.

C'mon, smash LRH into history by showing the world he really did bring the state of " clear" to mankind.

Well, that, or sit back and sip some more of that kool-aid.
 
What AT posted :
Funny stuff ! This reminds me of a child frightened of things going bump in the night. Whatever is going 'bump" being proven by the fright the child feels. Folks that IS insanity !

So if that poster feels " mental mass " ( <-- scientological term lays claim to well before scientology ?) that means the mental mass proves the existence of WTF ever . Well, OK. But that IS insane.

So, perhaps if I see giant green ugly screaming monsters it means they exist ?
I tried to tell you readers that the monsters are real you would tell me what...that I am insane? Yep.

Old Hub-the-turdcame up with catnip for humans - and, apparently, some are not going to be addicted to it forever ( more scientoligicaly correct : on up their future time track ) but they have this compulsion to sell it to any others that will listen.

This "clear" crap is part of the Hub-the-turd had in his catnip for humans. It is one of his ways of using people.

A wise friend of mine once said a man should use his religion, not be used by his religon.

scn use people. It is that simple. One can call scn a religion, a philosophy or anything else that please one to think of it as.od svn ) Regardless, while it may may sense to the one doing it ( like the child in fear of the bump in the night ) it does not make any sense at all to sane people ( those outside the cult ).

Look at like this : If scn really could produce a "clear" why would people not be lined up around the block ( a la the latest Apple product ) at evey org around the world ?

Just step outside the insanity ( cult, for the squeamish that can't face reality ) and come up an answer to "why" there are not lines around the block to go "clear".

( Hint : this thread offers some mild suggestions as to the "why" there ain't no big lines of people clamoring to go "clear" )

Why are there no lines for this greatest thing to be invented since fire?

Anybody curious about?

You are way off the beam, Toad.

There are whole schools of Mental Healing devoted to dealing with unwanted pictures, mass, emotions, attitudes, sensations and pains. Dianetics is just one of the Johnny-come-lately practices to address a phenomena that has been considered real and treatable for quite some time pre-Dianetics.

You may well have lost your mind, others obviously didn't.

The whole post :lol:
 
Toad, you seem to be completely missing the point that there are several so-called "Clears" responding on this thread. They're not Clears as described by Hubbard but they, nonetheless, consider that something occurred in the course of their auditing and that thing was labelled Clear.

Bill will argue that if it's not exactly as Hubbard described then it's not really Clear but rather something else. You will keep asserting that no such thing exists. Others will voice various viewpoints which they have adopted as "true for them" etc. and none of it will make one whit of difference to the fact that there are probably hundreds of people right here on ESMB who know that they got something out of dianetics and scientology.

I don't use the label in any shape or form (neither Clear nor OT) except when people ask about my bona fides in discussing scientology. I'll tell them I achieved Clear and OT per the CofS as it lends weight to my current oppose-the-CofS stance.

If you're looking for the wondrous animal described in DMSMH, you'll be looking 'til the cows come home. Nobody really expects to find one of those, they're rarer than unicorns.

Forget the Hubbardian-hype and accept the fact that some scientology does some things for some people. There's no need to be so afraid of admitting that, it's nearly over as far as organised scientology goes.
 
You are way off the beam, Toad.

There are whole schools of Mental Healing devoted to dealing with unwanted pictures, mass, emotions, attitudes, sensations and pains. Dianetics is just one of the Johnny-come-lately practices to address a phenomena that has been considered real and treatable for quite some time pre-Dianetics.

You may well have lost your mind, others obviously didn't.
I don't agree with your slam on Toad first of all, not that you would care one way or the other, I understand that. But as one shakes out the macro view of Hubbard's view of one's mind as being an amalgam of fried, crispy critter space aliens and the resultant swirling masses that lead to one's mental overwhelm - does not "the losing of one's mind" seem to be the entire purpose of Scientology? One shed's each and every layer of identity, beingness, personallity, mental mass ad infinitum. What is left of one's self post Scientology? You become a mindless shell of your previous self, and especially - a financially broke version. If I misunderstood you and it was not a slam, then I apologise.
 
I don't agree with your slam on Toad first of all, not that you would care one way or the other, I understand that. But as one shakes out the macro view of Hubbard's view of one's mind as being an amalgam of fried, crispy critter space aliens and the resultant swirling masses that lead to one's mental overwhelm - does not "the losing of one's mind" seem to be the entire purpose of Scientology? One shed's each and every layer of identity, beingness, personallity, mental mass ad infinitum. What is left of one's self post Scientology? You become a mindless shell of your previous self, and especially - a financially broke version. If I misunderstood you and it was not a slam, then I apologise.
It was not a slam.
Many who did their time in scientology joke that they "lost their mind".
I doubt very much that Toad would even be posting here at all if it wasn't for all that scientology he did. Every cloud has a silver lining, right?
 
It was not a slam.
Many who did their time in scientology joke that they "lost their mind".
I doubt very much that Toad would even be posting here at all if it wasn't for all that scientology he did. Every cloud has a silver lining, right?
Cool! I suspected once I re-read your post that it was not a hostile post. Again, my apology!
 
Top