The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[FoTi]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I just remembered something: The Magic Thetan.

He came around about a year ago and was going to tell some stories about Class 12 and working with LRH on research. Did that ever happen?

I looked at his posts and didn't find anything like that.

I know the regulars on this thread would be up to speed if it had happened.

Don't want to miss anything important.

Thanks in advance.

ILove2Lurk

Turned out Magic Thetan was not a CL XII…I knew he wasn’t when he came on ESMB because he was never on the Apollo or SO or, to my knowledge, ever at the FLB. His “story” about CL XII was simply that El Ron had verbally made him an “Honorary CL XII”.

Regarding the “research with El Ron” his “story”, IIRC, was that El Ron would send him letters asking him to run certain processes and report back to him about what happened, etc. :confused2:

Both “stories” were a couple of short paragraphs. You didn’t miss anything important, IMHO.

He did tell some stories about his father, the bookie, that I liked a whole lot.

Face

Here's his website. http://www.wonderworldonline.com/able-to-hear-people-think

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Turned out Magic Thetan was not a CL XII…I knew he wasn’t when he came on ESMB because he was never on the Apollo or SO or, to my knowledge, ever at the FLB. His “story” about CL XII was simply that El Ron had verbally made him an “Honorary CL XII”.

Regarding the “research with El Ron” his “story”, IIRC, was that El Ron would send him letters asking him to run certain processes and report back to him about what happened, etc. :confused2:

Both “stories” were a couple of short paragraphs. You didn’t miss anything important, IMHO.

He did tell some stories about his father, the bookie, that I liked a whole lot.

Face

Right on Face! I believe that Johnny was on lines at AOLA at one time. If I recall, he doesn't actually claim to be a Class XII auditor but he claims the title of Class XII Case Supervisor and does not hide the fact that this was an honorary appointment by LRH. He claims to have received one or more phone calls from LRH where LRH asked him to participate in some research. I believe Johnny that this is true.

I saw him at an Indie dinner gathering at a Mexican restaurant in Hollywood in late January. A group of us were planning on staging monthly seminars on various topics which were connected with Scientology tech. Purple Haze gave the first seminar in February of this year in Beverly Hills on her favorite Axiom. I was supposed to give the second lecture in March on the subject "Space is a viewpoint of dimension." Johnny was going to give the third seminar on communication. Johnny bumped me and gave the second seminar in Hollywood in March. After that, the seminars died out.

Since March, I have spoken with him by phone two or three times and have exchanged e-mails as well. For several months he assured me that he would return and post on ESMB but lately it seems that he has lost interest in internet posting and is doing other things.

He is really a remarkable guy with a very brilliant mind. He has a lot of stories to tell. He told us here on ESMB most of his major stories. He said he would return here and tell us more but things seem to have changed and as of now, I doubt if he will post here again. Even so, he answers his emails and can be reached on his wonderfun site.
Lakey

 

[FoTi]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I thought he quit posting here because he got too much flack.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I thought he quit posting here because he got too much flack.

No, that was not the main reason. When he started posting, it caused a tremendous reaction. He was loved by many but also attacked strongly by those who do not believe that Scientology has any validity. Being the type of guy he is and with the philosophy which he holds, all the flack which he got did cause a negative reaction with him.

However, he did not quit at that point but he regrouped. He answered the critics in a positive manner, toned down his posting a bit, dialogued with the critics in a loving manner, won a few of them over and accepted the fact that some were just not going to like him. I saw a lot of him at that time and he said that he got something positive from taking so much flak.

He had other pursuits going on, including giving counseling sessions to several clients. He took on a former regular poster here, Blue Spirit. The type of counseling Johnny specializes in is channeling. He mainly channels Bashar and also LRH. He was also working heavily on his Wonderworld project.

There may have also been a health issue which he was dealing with. His approach to health is generally to not get involved with orthodox medicine but instead to use spiritual healing. I once recommended orthodox medicine to him for a particular ailment and and he politely requested that I not discuss that matter with him any further and just let him handle things his own way. I backed off and honored his request.

There was no sharp break off from posting on ESMB. He came on ESMB to reconnect with the Indie field which he had lost touch with perhaps 20 years earlier. He made a big splash, he was promoting his Wonderworld project, reconnecting with some old friends and doing his counseling sessions He was pretty busy doing a lot of things and seems to have lost interest in further posting on ESMB. He kept saying that he would post again soon but after a while, it became apparent that he had just lost interest and moved on.
Lakey

 

[FoTi]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

No, that was not the main reason. When he started posting, it caused a tremendous reaction. He was loved by many but also attacked strongly by those who do not believe that Scientology has any validity. Being the type of guy he is and with the philosophy which he holds, all the flack which got did cause a negative reaction with him.

However, he did not quit at that point but he regrouped. He answered the critics in a positive manner, toned down his posting a bit, dialogued with the critics in a loving manner, won a few of them over and accepted the fact that some were just not going to like him. I saw a lot of him at that time and he said that he got something positive from taking so much flak.

He had other pursuits going on, including giving counseling sessions to several clients. He took on a former regular poster here, Blue Spirit. The type of counseling Johnny specializes in is channeling. He mainly channels Bashar and also LRH. He was also working heavily on his Wonderworld project.

There may have also been a health issue which he was dealing with. His approach to health is generally to not get involved with orthodox medicine but instead to use spiritual healing. I once recommended orthodox medicine to him for a particular ailment and and he politely requested that I not discuss that matter with him any further and just let him handle things his own way. I backed off and honored his request.

There was no sharp break off from posting on ESMB. He came on ESMB to reconnect with the Indie field which he had lost touch with perhaps 20 years earlier. He made a big splash, he was promoting his Wonderworld project, reconnecting with some old friends and doing his counseling sessions He was pretty busy doing a lot of things and seems to have lost interest in further posting on ESMB. He kept saying that he would post again soon but after a while, it became apparent that he had just lost interest and moved on.
Lakey

So, how is he doing now? Does anybody know?

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

So, how is he doing now? Does anybody know?

We exchanged phone calls and emails 8 or 10 weeks ago. Late in 2010, when I was very active in Orange County metaphysical circles, I took him to Ginger's Gardens in Costa Mesa. He talked with the owner there about promoting his Wonderworld project. He was supposed to get back to her with a follow up meeting but never did.

His email asked me if I would like to go to Ginger's Gardens with him. I said that I would. I checked with Purple Haze and she was also interested. Ginger's Gardens recently started emailing everyone a monthly calendar of events. This arrived in my email about 5 days ago and I forwarded a copy to both Johnny and Purple Haze, asking if they want to go there. Neither one has replied yet.

As to how Johnny's doing, I don't know too much. There is a medical issue which he wants to keep private. He's not talking about it and I quit asking about it months ago. When I have spoken to him on the phone, he is always his joking, light hearted self but the last call was nearly 3 months ago.

That's all the skinny which I have on "The Magic Thetan". If he returns my email then I'll know more.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Miscellaneous Ramblings

Miscellaneous Ramblings -
MY BROTHER - My brother, Reuben (aka Clarence Rockaway), was delisted from ESMB by Emma a couple of months ago. What caused this were some remarks he made about Jesus Christ and LRH and anyone who thought that either of those two beings had anything beneficial to say.

He was warned about making viscious personal attacks and chose not to heed his warnings.

He was dialoguing with a Christian on a thread on ESMB. Reuben called Jesus a piece of crap or something like that and then said that anyone who takes Jesus seriously and follows his teachings is also a piece of crap. It is a shame that someone reaches the age of 69 as he just did and still has that much hate and avarice in his heart. Those type of remarks just don't "cut it". There is no good to be gained in venting that type of hatred.

There is still a vestige of caring about him in my heart and a hope that he can work his way to a higher level of beingness but being a realist, it is easy to see that the best thing which I can do for him at this point is to not have any further contact with him.

GIVING MY FIRST "SESSION" IN ABOUT 15 YEARS.
A friend of mine who is a classed auditor needed to clean out some stuff from their mind and asked me if I would do an informal session on them. I agreed and put in all the prep check buttons on an area which my friend wanted to look at. It felt good to do this, my first session since 1995 when I did the Academy Levels at O.C. Org. Things went well! In return, my friend gave me a short session.

I am seeing that a lot can be done by listening intently to what a person has to say, letting the person know that they are being heard and then acknowledging them. If one is asking the right questions, they are going to get a positive result on the other person, sometimes a very big positive result.

If a person senses that you are actually listening and that you really care, and then feels that you have duplicated what they have said, they are able to clean their mind and make it more orderly.

It can be called auditing, processing or just communicating. You can use a meter or do it without a meter. It doesn't seem to matter that much.

THE CAT IN MY AVATAR - The beautiful cat in my Avatar picture, Bella, has just moved in with me. My ex wife and I got "Bella" about 3 years ago when she was 2 years old. My son started Law School in September in L.A. and took Bella with him but she was keeping him up all night, constantly demanding more food so he asked me to take her. She moved in with me about 4 days ago. I like the companionship!
Lakey

 

[Ted]

Re: Miscellaneous Ramblings

[...]
GIVING MY FIRST "SESSION" IN ABOUT 15 YEARS.
A friend of mine who is a classed auditor needed to clean out some stuff from their mind and asked me if I would do an informal session on them. I agreed and put in all the prep check buttons on an area which my friend wanted to look at. It felt good to do this, my first session since 1995 when I did the Academy Levels at O.C. Org. Things went well! In return, my friend gave me a short session.

I am seeing that a lot can be done by listening intently to what a person has to say, letting the person know that they are being heard and then acknowledging them. If one is asking the right questions, they are going to get a positive result on the other person, sometimes a very big positive result.

[...]
Lakey

Good on you, Lakey!

This is how to be a friend, or at least a big part of it.

Ask enough questions to get an understanding of what the person is communicating. I do not often dig any further than that. To do so would make me a church-of-scientologist on mission to find the WHO and WHY and all withholds and missed withholds and withholds that never existed.

I listen, a lot. I have always enjoyed other people's stories so listening comes easy to me. At the same time, I don't feel any great need to interject my opinion into the conversation, but sometimes that's a desire coming from the other person.

Your comment about acknowledgment is right on. After the person has run down of things to say, I will sometimes ask, "Did you just want me to just listen or would you like some feedback?" Then, do as the person desires, but keep the feedback to a minimum. (MINIMUM, Lakey! Almost nothing.)

Ted

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I like the old joke about psychiatrists:

At a cocktail party a man asks a shrink, "How do you remain happy, when all you hear day in, day out, is peoples' troubles?"

"Who listens?"

 

[RogerB]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

From this morning's reading . . . .

"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do." Edward Everett Hale

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Miscellaneous Ramblings

Good on you, Lakey!

This is how to be a friend, or at least a big part of it.

Ask enough questions to get an understanding of what the person is communicating. I do not often dig any further than that. To do so would make me a church-of-scientologist on mission to find the WHO and WHY and all withholds and missed withholds and withholds that never existed.

I listen, a lot. I have always enjoyed other people's stories so listening comes easy to me. At the same time, I don't feel any great need to interject my opinion into the conversation, but sometimes that's a desire coming from the other person.

Your comment about acknowledgment is right on. After the person has run down of things to say, I will sometimes ask, "Did you just want me to just listen or would you like some feedback?" Then, do as the person desires, but keep the feedback to a minimum. (MINIMUM, Lakey! Almost nothing.)

Ted

Ted, thanks for the acknowledgment, encouragement and the additional data on the topic!! We share the enjoyment of listening to other people's stories.

I intuitivly do most of what you wrote but probably need to cut back a little on giving my opinion.

So much can be done in the everyday world by just listening, duplicating, acknowledging and exhibiting interest and caring to the other person.

After meeting some new people recently at a get together and engaging them in conversation, word has got back to me that a couple of them are raving about me. One guy said cited two positive attributes which were nice to hear. I was described as a "really nice guy" and it was also stated that I was putting out a lot of "good energy".

Yes, let C of S run their sec checks on their parishioners and collect big bucks for doing so. Out in the field in everyday life, a lot of good can be done through just listening and acknowledging. This also can extend easily to psychologists and psychiatrists. Probably the ones that do the best in these fields are the ones that have a natural gift for listening and acknowledging.
Lakey

 

[Ted]

Re: Miscellaneous Ramblings

Ted, thanks for the acknowledgment, encouragement and the additional data on the topic!! We share the enjoyment of listening to other people's stories.

I intuitivly do most of what you wrote but probably need to cut back a little on giving my opinion. Hence, my admonition.

So much can be done in the everyday world by just listening, duplicating, acknowledging and exhibiting interest and caring to the other person. If you wanna go by the old system when there was still hope, this would be the domain of a Class 0 Auditor. As I see it, a couple hundred thousand Class 0's with their listening and ack skills could change the world--or at least perform some valuable destimulation and orientation.

After meeting some new people recently at a get together and engaging them in conversation, word has got back to me that a couple of them are raving about me. One guy said cited two positive attributes which were nice to hear. I was described as a "really nice guy" and it was also stated that I was putting out a lot of "good energy".

Yes, let C of S run their sec checks on their parishioners and collect big bucks for doing so. Out in the field in everyday life, a lot of good can be done through just listening and acknowledging. This also can extend easily to psychologists and psychiatrists. Probably the ones that do the best in these fields are the ones that have a natural gift for listening and acknowledging. Probably.
Lakey

From my own experience, I would have to say don't get too full of yourself with the "nice guy" label, though you do come across that way, in a positive way. Human beings who can't see past the physical universe see nice guys as being pleasant but weak. You can walk softly, but sometimes you have to let 'em know you carry a big stick (or dick ) and you are willing to use it.

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I was one of John's "antagonists" here when he arrived with his big bang. There was something that just infuriated me in his postings. I'd only recently realized the "con" and had started posting here just some months before, so of course I became quite zealous (like the Russian Revolutionaries in Dr. Zhivago) and banged the table a few times and spilt other people's beer.

Regardless of all that, it's never nice to hear of another's suffering and I'll keep John in my prayers.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Miscellaneous Ramblings

From my own experience, I would have to say don't get too full of yourself with the "nice guy" label, though you do come across that way, in a positive way. Human beings who can't see past the physical universe see nice guys as being pleasant but weak. You can walk softly, but sometimes you have to let 'em know you carry a big stick (or dick ) and you are willing to use it.

Point well taken, refering to being called a nice guy. That and more "muzzling" of my communication are two areas I'm well aware of. Yes, more often than not these traits get people into unnecessary trouble which need not have happened.

Since arriving on ESMB in Feb '09, I have made progress in changing these two traits. Now, going on 72 years, I'm tending to relax my efforts to control the nice guy trait. The areas where I was getting hit the hardest with these two traits were in romance and business. Just as you say, people with this trait are perceived as weak and easy marks to take advantage of. Right now my attention is not on romance or business so much. Being perceived as a nice guy helps in making new friends and I've found it can be helpful in selling a product.

Ted, I loved your comments about what a Class 0 auditor was supposed to achieve. Here again, I had thought of something along these lines on my own. I never connected the dots and saw that as something a Class 0 could be doing.

In all my years in the Orgs, no scientologist that I know of was encouraged to train to Class 0 and then go out into society and release trapped mental "charge" in public individuals. I guess there was no money in it for LRH or the Orgs so it was not pushed. If that is true, it is really a shame... a huge overt of ommission to use Scio terminolgy.

Your astute comments, of how much good could be done to destimulate large sections of society if teams of people with good communications cycles were sent out into their midst to listen to them, boogles the mind!!

A full communication course with hours of TR 0 is not required. All that would be needed is the following:

1. A person who wants to help others and who is interested in what others have to say.
2. A person who will listen to others and is able to duplicate what they are saying.
3. A person who is capable of acknowledging another person in a natural manner.

With those simple abilities, a person can go out into the public and listen to others and help clear out the junk in their minds.

ONCE A PERSON PERCIEVES THAT YOU ARE "SAFE", IT IS AMAZING HOW MUCH THEY WILL TELL YOU RIGHT FROM THE START. Soon they are telling you their most intimate secrets and a lot of long held garbage which they have stored up gets cleared out. The people who are helped will often introduce you to others who will then start telling you their troubles.

Money is usually not exchanged here. Often there is a barter type of exchange. Maybe the other person can give you a massage or a "facial" or fix you a nice meal. One thing is that you start making lots of new friends and are being invited to a lot of activities. It is very rewarding to do this if you have the inclination and the time.
Lakey

 

[philTmonx]

Re: Miscellaneous Ramblings

ONCE A PERSON PERCIEVES THAT YOU ARE "SAFE", IT IS AMAZING HOW MUCH THEY WILL TELL YOU RIGHT FROM THE START. Soon they are telling you their most intimate secrets and a lot of long held garbage which they have stored up gets cleared out. The people who are helped will often introduce you to others who will then start telling you their troubles.
Lakey

Im proof of your guys product with that thought.. thank you..

 

[RogerB]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Good points Ted and Lakey . . . .

The winning proposition is that of being up mood and genuinely interested in others, honoring and appreciating what's worthwhile in them. From this more powerful position one does acknowledge their communications correctly, and with sensible questions one can open up their understanding of life to a higher level.

Conversely, if one is operating from a lower mood, weak position, one tends to propitiate to the other to be liked . . . and that is a losing proposition

Also, folks who feel the need or who unwittingly operate from the weak position of propitiation in order to be liked, generally have their attention on themselves more than the other person. And that too is a losing proposition as this leads to less than optimum alignment and handling of the relationship.

R

 

[RogerB]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

This came to me this morning from a friend . . . .

I present it for your edification and entertainment and hope it does not "shatter" too many stable data

[video=youtube;-NH5yK3ZN54]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=-NH5yK3ZN54[/video]

There are lots more vids at the YouTube page. The above is the second of two of this fellow. This first one really had me doing a WTF?!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex283trHBgE&feature=player_embedded

 

[Ted]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Good points Ted and Lakey . . . .

The winning proposition is that of being up mood and genuinely interested in others, honoring and appreciating what's worthwhile in them. From this more powerful position one does acknowledge their communications correctly, and with sensible questions one can open up their understanding of life to a higher level.

Conversely, if one is operating from a lower mood, weak position, one tends to propitiate to the other to be liked . . . and that is a losing proposition

Also, folks who feel the need or who unwittingly operate from the weak position of propitiation in order to be liked, generally have their attention on themselves more than the other person. And that too is a losing proposition as this leads to less than optimum alignment and handling of the relationship.

R

Good points, Rog!

About asking questions, those trained in Scio will take that to mean asking some sort of probing question designed to go down a certain path and bring about cognition in various forms. That path in scio is broadly, The Bridge. If that's the understanding, the contract, so to speak, between the parties then no harm. But in casual conversation, an unannounced, not agreed upon contract can take on the feeling of a sales pitch or downright rudeness.

So, to further define what I mean by "listen and ack," I will add that my objective of such a casual conversation is simply my understanding of what the other person is trying to say--or is saying. Their objective can be as simple as being heard and acked. That's never an issue. How odd would that be in a social setting to clarify goals for the conversation?

If they don't fully understand what the point is that they are trying to make, it is rare that I would then be able to understand. I mean, I could surmise this, that, or the other thing, but that's more than just listening and ack. I ask just enough questions to gain understanding and then we are back on track. And by not probing the person says as much as they wish and no charge gets missed.

People have two or three primary, unanswered questions that sit underneath all other curiosities and unanswered questions related to everyday living: "Who or what am I?" "Why am I here?"

This is the point: People have remarked that I surely am an intelligent person. I could easily provide evidence against that statement, and given all the people and things that I simply do not understand, it would be ludicrous to argue in favor of my own intelligence. Truth be told, all I have done prior to this remark is listen and acknowledge. People then see me as they would like to see themselves.

Simple.



P.S. Sometimes a person will realize that they have been doing all the talking so they give me a chance to say something. I figure I have about a two sentence opportunity to express myself. Then they are off originating again. There really is an imbalance of origination to acknowledgment and recognition out there.

P.P.S. Some people have a hard time finding a safe point from which to originate. They will remain quiet until they figure out what that safe point might be. During that time my silence can make people uncomfortable. You can ease the pressure they place on themselves by starting an innocuous conversation: "How about those Florida Gators this season?"

 

[Ted]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

This came to me this morning from a friend . . . .

I present it for your edification and entertainment and hope it does not "shatter" to many stable data

[video=youtube;-NH5yK3ZN54]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=-NH5yK3ZN54[/video]

There are lots more vids at the YouTube page. The above is the second of two of this fellow. This first one really had me doing a WTF?!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex283trHBgE&feature=player_embedded

The planetary model being taught is not unlike Hubbard's explanation of the human condition of thetan, mind, body, somatic mind, etc. As the man in the video said it is "... isolating a system and trying to understand it." I see no problem with that method as long as we do not forget that we have done that and for what purpose.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Good points Ted and Lakey . . . .

The winning proposition is that of being up mood and genuinely interested in others, honoring and appreciating what's worthwhile in them. From this more powerful position one does acknowledge their communications correctly, and with sensible questions one can open up their understanding of life to a higher level.

Conversely, if one is operating from a lower mood, weak position, one tends to propitiate to the other to be liked . . . and that is a losing proposition

Also, folks who feel the need or who unwittingly operate from the weak position of propitiation in order to be liked, generally have their attention on themselves more than the other person. And that too is a losing proposition as this leads to less than optimum alignment and handling of the relationship.

R

Thanks for your comments and clarifications of what is going on Roger! I can see that what I am doing is correct in helping people and it is helpful to get some insights from a technical point of view from you on why what is being done has been working and what might cause unsuccessful applications of this data to occur.

Also, I would like to thank philTmonks for his supportive comment and also welcome him to ESMB and the Apollo thread in particular! ("he" is correct, no?)

Lakey