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The State of Clear

"My experience has been that Clears are better in bed than non clears. There is more freedom, more energy exchanged, more fun."

This observation is from being in bed with a woman before she or you were "clear" and then after you and she went "clear" and continued to go to bed together, right? You are making that valid comparison, right?

Please do not tell me your observation is based on experience between non clear woman A and then clear woman B.


I can tell you for certain I have been to bed with a woman when neither she or I had attested to clear and we continued to go to ber with one another all the way up the bridge. The sex was ALWAYS incredible.

As an " OT " I had sex once with a woman who was OTIII but probably not a fair comparison as she was a lesbian.

My experience is that some ( not all ) women are incredible lovers and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with being "clear" - or any other " hidden standard".

PS - In my experience making love to a woman to bring her maximum pleasure and joy lets her be an incredible lover, but, using a woman as a place to masturbate leaves her bored.
 
"My experience has been that Clears are better in bed than non clears. There is more freedom, more energy exchanged, more fun."

This observation is from being in bed with a woman before she or you were "clear" and then after you and she went "clear" and continued to go to bed together, right? You are making that valid comparison, right?

Please do not tell me your observation is based on experience between non clear woman A and then clear woman B.


I can tell you for certain I have been to bed with a woman when neither she or I had attested to clear and we continued to go to ber with one another all the way up the bridge. The sex was ALWAYS incredible.

As an " OT " I had sex once with a woman who was OTIII but probably not a fair comparison as she was a lesbian.

My experience is that some ( not all ) women are incredible lovers and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with being "clear" - or any other " hidden standard".

PS - In my experience making love to a woman to bring her maximum pleasure and joy lets her be an incredible lover, but, using a woman as a place to masturbate leaves her bored.

It is,"Please do not tell me your observation is based on experience between non clear woman A and then clear woman "

When I was 15, 16, my girl friend was on the pill. She was 17, 18. We would fuck maybe three times a day, 6 days a week. An OK stat for a junior in high school. and I don't mean, "Wham bang , thank you M'am"

As a senior in high school, age 17, my girl friend was a student teacher at that same school. She has been my girl friend two other times this lifetime. We have never even as much as kissed each other, when one of us wasn't married. You could say that the passion flows pretty freely. When we have lived together, the sex is usually only morning noon and night with brief quickies interspersed.

Both of the above examples are passionate and wonderful to understate the case. Neither did Scientology.

The personality type, that I hook up with, tends to be pretty fucking horny.

The Clears have had more "theta" for lack of a better word.

I wouldn't kick any of them out of bed.

If I had gone to college, my degree would be in cunilinguistics.

Seth MacFarlane:
[video=youtube;Cx98pqJB-BQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx98pqJB-BQ[/video]

The original, Prof. Harold Hill (Robert Preston):

[video=youtube;PujvRmxvtao]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PujvRmxvtao[/video]
 
That's a good 'selling point' for Scientology: 'Clears are better at sex!'

I've seen someone in the natterboards, a woman.. (Probably an incognito scilon..) state that scientology OT's, males, have really big dicks!

The most incredible and alluring super win from scientology.. Was a woman who claimed to have had a 'voluption' in session! - Her boobs just got bigger!

Hehe.. Are we selling scientology yet?

To whom? - The same crowd who spend all their income on viagra? - Women who buy new boobs every year?

Well.. In Scientology it's an 'overt' to spend good money on either viagra or boobs.. Makes me think.. Actually getting a boner or bigger boobs for your money is what's considered wrong.. It's ethically OK to pay Scientology for the same 'effects' without getting' 'em!

Or howz that working?

:unsure:
 
To put this reply in perspective, she was an example of the changes wrought in my being Clear.

Specifically, my entire outlook was enlarged. It was still me, just more attention, action, interest.

In my senior year of high school, I got involved with Scientology. I was pretty much a geek and a gear head. I was a farm boy, who read books and dropped acid. I would have rather been working on an engine than sitting in school, and that is pretty much what I did. But I wasn't what I became after going Clear.

Clear really extroverted me.

Before Clear, i slept a normal 8 hrs or so. After Clear for the first several months, I was sleeping 3 hours a night and not at all on the week ends. I would course sup in Menlo Park from 10-10 daily, and on week ends, I'd drive to LA and play fast and loose with my friends.

Before Clear, I wasn't very sports minded. I did long distance running, a little surfing and bellyboarding, and that was about it. After Clear, the next winter (5 months later), On my first day on skis, I went from the bunny slope to showing a girl, who I met, on an intermediate slope, how to do something. This was around noon of that day. My friend, David Longinotti, who I was staying with at Bear Valley, gave me some lessons for a half hour or so at 8 AM, and when he came back to see how I was doing, it was about lunch time. No formal instruction. Rossignol skis over 200 cm - long skis, not the shorties we use now.

I had been interested in the **idea** of scuba diving since I was a kid. I never did anything. Before the year was out, after going Clear, I had a scuba cert.

Four years after Clear, I saw the Eiger Sanction starring Clint Eastwood on a Sunday, and the next day (Monday), I was learning to climb up at Castle Rock.

Forty years later, I still rock climb, go scuba diving, and skiing. And my family goes with me. When my son, now 41, was 12, I took him, along with a high school class up 2,500 feet (The Two Sisters) in Yosemite. Within the last month, he borrowed my ropes, carabiners, chalks, pitons, etc. and took his kid climbing.

Our youngest daughter has an instructor cert in scuba. Was I an influence? I think so. We have a movie of ourselves, when she was a young teen ager, petting a moray eel about 90 feet below the surface off Oahu. We have memories of hundreds of dolphins playing in the water between Lahaina and Lanai, where we were scuba diving.

The same daughter has impressed boy friends by keeping up with them, on an equal footing, on surfboards off Malibu, and on skis and snowboards off the trail in more snowy venues.

Our son (who was rock climbing with me), skis backwards off Double Black Diamond cornices, while taking movies of his wife, kids, and sister coming off the same cornice. I was the person, who took his son, then age 6, off "his" first cornice.

Now back to your question about my girl friend from after going Clear. She was 46, and *good looking**. I was 20. We were both neophytes, in our social group at the Santa Clara, then Menlo Park (later Palo Alto) center. We were surrounded by Class Vllls and VIs. (as an example: Mimi Spickler at age 14 was a Class VI, and at age 16, was a Class VIII).

We were Clear, and that was it. No special status. The clients or public consisted of business, educational, sports, and research stars and future stars. I sold Matt Feshbach his first Scien book. John Brodie, who had a Heisman Trophy, was voted Most Valuable Player in the NFL. Ed Marinaro had a Heisman Trophy. Mervin Morris had a huge chain of department stores (Mervyn's). Hal Puthoff was the link between the Soviet Union and the United States on small particle physics and also was a lead researcher at SRI on Remote Viewing. Ed Mitchell had walked on the Moon. The list goes on.

In the grand scheme of things, in that location, in that time, we were on the bottom most rung of the chicken coop.

What we had, between us, was pheromones. .... shooting everywhere between us.

We created our reality.

There was a day, when we agreed to meet at 11 AM, at the menlo Park center, where we both arrived from separate points on the map, long before cell phones, at 1 PM within 5 minutes of each other.

We synched. That is the long and short of it.

There was a two week period, where we only got out of bed to eat, shop for groceries, or go to the bathroom.

At one point we had an upset. Pretty big. Don't remember what. Phil Spickler took her into session. He asked how I was in bed. She said, "The BEST!" end of session, end of upset. This is literally true down to the exact words.

Parenthetically, she was also, "The BEST!"

My experience has been that Clears are better in bed than non clears. There is more freedom, more energy exchanged, more passion, more fun.

I am not talking "natural clears," "dianetic clears,""Clear OTs" etc. I'm talking about the group of people, who did a lot of auditing , then power, then grade 6, then the Clearing Course. You can call that state anything. We called it "Clear" because that was the name on the branding iron. BFD. The state, is delicious. Doesn't matter what you name it.

It has been good for me for forty years. It has been good for my family. The dominoes that initially fell, are still falling.
I find your early life so much the same as mine, my gawd, how many of us lived the same circumstances? After being born on a farm I got into SCN after my Jr. year of H.S., moved out immediately after graduation and met a slightly older woman with whom we soon shared an apartment, love at first sight..... It goes on very similarly. But you attribute to the state of clear what I attribute to a simple a matter of maturation and getting out of the nest. My self confidence shot through the roof as a result of the validation I recieved from Judy, but the bubble burst when she left me because I was putting all my money into SCN, which she was a most strenous adversary of. Similar lives that took divergent paths due to one woman being a devout Scientologist and the other NOT...
 
That's a good 'selling point' for Scientology: 'Clears are better at sex!'

I've seen someone in the natterboards, a woman.. (Probably an incognito scilon..) state that scientology OT's, males, have really big dicks!

The most incredible and alluring super win from scientology.. Was a woman who claimed to have had a 'voluption' in session! - Her boobs just got bigger!

Hehe.. Are we selling scientology yet?

To whom? - The same crowd who spend all their income on viagra? - Women who buy new boobs every year?

Well.. In Scientology it's an 'overt' to spend good money on either viagra or boobs.. Makes me think.. Actually getting a boner or bigger boobs for your money is what's considered wrong.. It's ethically OK to pay Scientology for the same 'effects' without getting' 'em!

Or howz that working?

:unsure:

what I paid for and received in going Clear was more like:

[video=youtube;8bMjUU972So]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bMjUU972So&feature=related[/video]

or

[video=youtube;Or8TA6IPE-M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or8TA6IPE-M&feature=fvst[/video]
 
I find your early life so much the same as mine, my gawd, how many of us lived the same circumstances? After being born on a farm I got into SCN after my Jr. year of H.S., moved out immediately after graduation and met a slightly older woman with whom we soon shared an apartment, love at first sight..... It goes on very similarly. But you attribute to the state of clear what I attribute to a simple a matter of maturation and getting out of the nest. My self confidence shot through the roof as a result of the validation I recieved from Judy, but the bubble burst when she left me because I was putting all my money into SCN, which she was a most strenous adversary of. Similar lives that took divergent paths due to one woman being a devout Scientologist and the other NOT...

My girl friend, when I got into Scn, was the teacher (married to another). She left her husband for me. Then Scn split us apart. She didn't do it, and I was a little loopy. She went to LA. She was going to come back to me, but got pregnant, and decided to marry the dude. Devastated me. I went to the wedding, met her husband's sister, and we hooked up. She moved in with me at my parents' house. Her name was Laurie Noonan. Now it is Laurie Engelhart. She is (and has been for decades) a honcho at Flag. I got her into Scn, and I'm sorry I ever did that. She is a beautiful being and I love her, but I fucked her over by getting her involved with the Co$.

I was in Scn from 68-76. In that time, I spent about $5K on Scn. prices were a lot less. I did the briefing course and through OT3 (a worthless piece of shit). My house cost about $25K. My wallpaper, plumbing, electrical, and floor refinishing probably set me back more than my Scn. It was probably a different time.

In 1976, my (married to another) class Vlll girl friend, and I walked away (quietly) from the Co$. We married a couple years later, and are still married. most of our friends left in the exodus of 1980.

Some years later, the girl friend from my 'going Clear story,' that I had mentioned, did the same (got married and left the Co$). We are still friends. She was born in 1926, still travels the world, sails, lives fully. We separated not with an upset, just different priorities. I wanted a kid. She didn't want any more. She goes to the gym regularly to this day.

Oh! and i was still living at home with my parents, at age 20, when I hooked up with my 46 year old girl friend. Before Clear, at the Santa Clara center, she didn't even know i existed. After Clear, I was on her radar screen. After we hooked up, she told me I had to get a place of my own. (DUH!!!). My mother would call me at her house, and ask if I had a room of my own to sleep in there. Took less than a week to get a house of my own. I wasn't stupid, just a little dim witted.
 
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... What you call "deterioration" was actually "evolution" of Scientology management in DIRECT ALIGNMENT with Hubbard's aims, policies, directives and visions. There is no doubt that many of us saw a real increase in insanity, craziness, oppression and strange behavior in Scientology throughout the mid 1970s through the early 1980s. ...

That is very true. It is also a clear sign of the deterioration of conditions within the church as it became increasingly more restrictive and decreasingly tolerant of individual freedom.


... But, it was BECAUSE OF HUBBARD, and NOT "despite Hubbard".

Also true. I have yet to see any serious suggestions to the contrary.


Mark A. Baker
 
"The Clears have had more "theta" for lack of a better word".

I can accept that really is true for some people. I really can. I can also accept that for some people getting into scientology was a big step up for them. I can accept that, too.

I have had the pleasure of knowing some absolutely wonderful individuals ( scio word = "theta" ) that would light up a room with their presence and when they had their attention on you it made you feel like you were the only person in the world.
Fair, honest, honorable, good friend, intelligent, accomplished.....most any word one could use to describe what are considered "good" attributes - and not a damn one of 'em had every done a lick of scientology.... that just lived a magic life.


I really do accept that, for some people, being in scientology was the highlight of their life. No way they could possibly move on in their own mind even though they walked out the door of the "church" they can not leave the mindset. "Clear" is still a big deal to them. Makes better lovers and all that. Better scuba divers and better skier, too.

Like most every other parent, I'm proud of my kids - and anyone who felt they needed scientology to be a decent parent damn sure NEEDED scoentology and I'm glad for the kids they found it!

I have my say on the scientology state of clear and that is : those whose still claim they are clear are acting batshit crazy. Don't take my word for it, please, read what they post.
 
... But, it was BECAUSE OF HUBBARD, and NOT "despite Hubbard".

Also true. I have yet to see any serious suggestions to the contrary.

Mark A. Baker

No serious suggestions to the contrary? Where, here, on ESMB, anywhere in the world?

I think Marty and other assorted imbeciles might disagree. As I see things, they like to (stupidly) imagine that it WAS "despite Hubbard" that the deterioration occurred, and that DM is the big bad ogre who "sabotaged the good and decent LRH version of Scientology".
 
No serious suggestions to the contrary? Where, here, on ESMB, anywhere in the world? ...

Here on esmb. This is where the conversation is occurring. Oddly enough, people who tend not to accept hubbard's role in the abuses of the church also don't tend as a rule to engage in the discussions which occur on this board.


... I think Marty and other assorted imbeciles might disagree. ...

Quite likely, but they aren't here and the thread's topic isn't really about them.


Mark A. Baker
 
Here on esmb. This is where the conversation is occurring. Oddly enough, people who tend not to accept hubbard's role in the abuses of the church also don't tend as a rule to engage in the discussions which occur on this board.




Quite likely, but they aren't here and the thread's topic isn't really about them.


Mark A. Baker

And I'd say, nah. This thread is about "clear" and if there is really one "clear" then everyone is clear...here, there, and everywhere !
 
You asked, and here is what I "think".

I didn't say that they didn't get anything out of the training and auditing. I know many did, and I also did. I enjoyed the auditing and some aspects of the training, VERY much so.

I meant, how and why would anyone choose to stay around with all the obvious lunacy and insanity surrounding one? I won't get into the many details of that insanity here as I have described this in many ways before. Simply, I found it too restrictive to have to mold myself to the cookie-cutter pattern Hubbard's Scientology demanded.

But, to provide a few examples, I noticed quite early while involved in Scientology that management constantly lied, exaggerated and misled the public and staff. That is partially why I avoided events (even while on staff). I couldn't stand the OBVIOUS PR and bullshit.

I also noticed how Scientology functioned to install the fixed ideas that I learned about while doing study courses. I saw how many Scientologists became unable to learn anything that contradicted Hubbard or the Church party-line.

I saw how Scientology functioned as "mind control", even if it wasn't totally intentional (now, I suspect that it was).

I saw how sometimes innocent people were jokingly presented with "justice" in "kangaroo courts" (Comm Evs), and how they were declared and disconnected from friends and family.

I saw how Scientology had a comfortable but nasty tendency to "waste people" (staff and public).

I saw the endless pressure, force and demand as NOT a good thing.

I NEVER really liked the "group" aspect of Scientology. It seemed an almost "added inapplicable datum", a tacked on something that ONLY acted to reduce any of the value that the auditing and "tech" training might have had. The whole KSW, "free the universe" vibe was so ADDED-ON and largely unwanted and unnecessary to me. The ONLY thing that ever interested me was the "subject of personal growth and expansion", which was only a PART of the whole subject of Scientology. The part of it that dealt with "expanding Scientology" seemed to create so MANY "bad effects", and THAT was far too much of what involvement with Scientology entails - caring about and contributing to the stupid Scientology GROUP.

I didn't walk away because of ANY "bad results" with auditing. I walked away primarily because the organization was insane, and it was quite insane right from the beginning when I first got involved in 1976. I didn't understand at first that it was insane BECAUSE of Hubbard, because Hubbard wrote the policies and advices, that when followed RESULT in the lunacy.

Oh, and also I was confronted with an endless stream of contradictions of Scn theory versus practice. It was later that I came to notice that there were many contradictions in the Scn theory itself.

I will add that I did the majority of my lower bridge (over 400 hours) up through the expanded grades at very cheap sliding scale discounts. I also got the additional 5 or 10% discount for "advanced payments". So, I think my auditing was getting debited at about $375 per intensive! I was NOT at all upset about what I was getting for my money THEN, and to this day I feel that I got WAY MORE than what I paid. But, I did NOT sign up for all of the endless bullshit that comes along with membership in THAT organization! No matter how cheap the auditing might have been.

And I did up through OT III for less than 10K. OT I was pretty useless, and a let-down for me. It was like a "locational".

I did LOVE the EP of OT II, because as I came to learn later, it happened JUST as described with layer upon layer of "charge" peeling-off, I line-charged for 10 minutes at the end, and really, it seemed that the LFBD and floating TA would just keeping getting BIGGER. It was very dramatic, and I had NEVER before experienced the intensity or depth of continual charge blowing off as happened at the end of the OT II level. It was fairly boring until the end - then WHOOSH!!!!!!! I was so amazed that I ran out of the room and went to the examiner. I left ALL of my materials OPEN in plain view, and it was a bit of a downer to immediately be assigned TREASON for "violating security of confidential materials". It did act to kill the "win". Oh well, such is Scientology.

While I was "wow" about OT III at first when contacting the "data", I didn't find the auditing that needed or wanted. I could imagine though, IF SPIRITS ARE REAL, that thetans could conceive themselves st "stuck together". But, it just never really "indicated" for me as a needed auditing action.

I did do 50 hours of FPRD at Flag in the early 1990s, and THAT wasn't so cheap, and I suppose if I had THAT to do all over, I would pass. I did get "keyed out" quite a bit, BUT I noticed ZERO change in any areas of my life. :confused2:

It was as if I had reached a point of diminishing returns with my auditing. The majority of the change and value was EARLY ON, and as time went on, there was LESS and LESS change. I mean, I had experienced near complete separation from my body and mind, and I had "been there with nothing else MANY times", so it was like, WHY BOTHER?

But, what I REALLY LEARNED was how crazy many people can become by adopting and thinking with a crazy belief system. I saw FIXED IDEAS work in close proximity to Scn staff and public. I saw how "considerations" (agreeing with various of Hubbard's statements) can act to limit and define perceptions by my own watching of various aspects of Scientology staff and public in action.

So, I doubt many people walk away because of auditing or training. They walk away because of the OTHER bullshit that is foisted upon them in the process of "being a Scientologist". For me, it was almost too much right from the start. And, it WAS NOT hidden, and to me it WAS OBVIOUS.

There is/was too much lunacy in the vicinity of the Church of Scientology, too much of the time, to make staying for the auditing and training even slightly tolerable. :omg:
QFT. Thanks, Gadfly, I appreciate your answer. :thumbsup:

Thanks, everyone else participating in this discussion, I appreciate your answers too! :thumbsup:
 
I was in Scn from 68-76. In that time, I spent about $5K on Scn. prices were a lot less. I did the briefing course and through OT3 (a worthless piece of shit). My house cost about $25K. My wallpaper, plumbing, electrical, and floor refinishing probably set me back more than my Scn. It was probably a different time.
You got in just 3 or 4 years before I got in and it certainly was a different era. I got my training package for something like $1,300 and bought a bunch of intensives for cheap when I fell into some money. The fact that I spent it ALL on Scientology freaked out my non-Scientologist live in girlfriend Judy. She concluded that she was in love with an idiot and it was downhill after that.
The main reason I stayed on the periphery of Scientology over the next 5 years was because I worked a factory job nights and all the girls I knew were from the org, either on staff or public. So I tried to maintain a positive attitude about the COS, or I'd have had little of a social life. I found Scientology girls generally on the wild side, even self-declared nympho's, and excellent in bed but none of my girlfriends were clears or OT's as I was at a Class IV org and people tended to go to LA for their upper levels and not come back.
 
The State of Clear= batshit crazy

Ah, besides the state of clear there are the stately states of :

near
beer
dear
deer

( swimming )

Apparently, some guys used scn to find hot chicks. Fair enough. I certainly did that, too.
( The worse sex I ever had was FANTASTIC ! )

Which reminds, back say late 80s, does anybody remember when the new recuits into the SO were berthed together for their EPF thing? Was lots of fun for a lot of people until somebody discovered they were having huge nightly sex orgies.

Anybody know any details ?

( Sidebar : Are people who aren't clear even allowed to have sex?)
 
At CC mid 70s, about the time it moved to La Brea, there was this somewhat cute gal making her rounds through the guys there. I was flirting with her and looking to spend some nights having my share of fun with her, too.

The EO quietly asked me if knew even time she slept with somebody the next morning she was blabbinbg and sobbing to him about it - and unless I really wanted to do some conditions on several dynamics I might want to look elsewhere for my fun.

Now THAT was EO !
 
-snip-

It has been good for me for forty years. It has been good for my family. The dominoes that initially fell, are still falling.

In the forty years since you have done the Clearing Course, have you obtained the compete Clearing Course - not the incomplete, airbrushed, versions common on the Internet - and sat down and carefully reviewed the materials, with attention to the suggestive and manipulative nature of certain aspects of that level?

And, today, if someone new to Scientology approached you, upon hearing your glowing accounts of the Clearing Course, would you recommend that person do the Clearing Course?
 
At CC mid 70s, about the time it moved to La Brea, there was this somewhat cute gal making her rounds through the guys there. I was flirting with her and looking to spend some nights having my share of fun with her, too.

The EO quietly asked me if knew even time she slept with somebody the next morning she was blabbinbg and sobbing to him about it - and unless I really wanted to do some conditions on several dynamics I might want to look elsewhere for my fun.

Now THAT was EO !
She wasn't a red haired gal named Stacy was she? That was a gal I met when I stayed at the manor, she ran the elevator around that time.
 
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Re: The State of Near Beer

Near Beer can be incredible... but it ain't Beal beer.

Some are reeled in on Near Beer.

Fond memories of how great that first one was!
 
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