The State of Clear

[Dulloldfart]

I'm not inclined to go searching for the actual compete Clearing Course materials, but OT 2 is similar. Here's a sampling of a typical implant description from OT 2 <snip>

Google "Prometheus Reports" and they will come right up.

The first part of your post was a quote from the Clearing Course booklet. The instructions are used for OT2 also, but the platens (implants) are different. The other platens you quoted were from OT2. "Lights" (basically rayguns that cause unconsciousness, or the effects from same) are all through Hubbard's CC implant write-up, but there is only one light in his entire OT2 implantoire.

Paul

 

[Veda]

Google "Prometheus Reports" and they will come right up.

The first part of your post was a quote from the Clearing Course booklet. The instructions are used for OT2 also, but the platens (implants) are different. The other platens you quoted were from OT2. "Lights" (basically rayguns that cause unconsciousness, or the effects from same) are all through Hubbard's CC implant write-up, but there is only one light in his entire OT2 implantoire.

Paul

I italicized the OT 2 implant.

An in depth examination of these materials, taking into consideration any positive aspects, and also taking into consideration "Hubbard the hypnotist" and Hubbard's "hidden agenda," would be interesting.

I don't want to go searching for a paper copy of the old Clearing Course at this time, but the Prometheus Report material, to me, looks very "airbrushed."

 

[Dulloldfart]

I italicized the OT 2 implant.

An in depth examination of these materials, taking into consideration any positive aspects, and also taking into consideration "Hubbard the hypnotist" and Hubbard's "hidden agenda," would be interesting.

Yes. Let me know when you've written it.

As for the Prometheus Reports, could you provide a link that - just by clicking this link with no further searching - allows one to examine these materials, and compare to the old pre-Internet paper copy version?

No. Sorry.

The Prometheus Reports web pages, like the Clearbird web pages, use frames. So the best one can do is say, "Click this link, then in the left-hand column search for ___ and click. . . ."
EDIT: This is variable. Sometimes you can zoom in on specific issues and sometimes not.

As for airbrushing, as far as I know the platens are the same. I never noticed the removal of the dire warnings until you pointed it out, but the instructions generally seem to be the same. I know that the author wanted to stick in a bunch of extra description of OT3 scenario from the "Assists" tape. My view at the time was that it didn't add to the procedure and looked fanciful, so best to leave it out. I don't remember what made it into the final version.

Paul

 

[Veda]

Yes. Let me know when you've written it.



No. Sorry.

The Prometheus Reports web pages, like the Clearbird web pages, use frames. So the best one can do is say, "Click this link, then in the left-hand column search for ___ and click. . . ."

Paul

I did, and the material is incomplete. Perhaps for legal reasons.

It's part but not all of the Clearing Course material I remember.

But since I don't want to perform an archaeological dig to find the materials in paper form, I'll just have to let it go for now.

 

[Panda Termint]

The meter phenomena on OT2 is kinda interesting. Most who've done it would probably agree on that point. Maybe.

It definitely impresses some people. <snip...>

Are you saying you find it uninteresting?

 

[Gadfly]

What was always so weird about OT II, in retrospect, is that BEFORE I ever read any of "what often happens at the end of OT II", it HAPPENED to me!

I was running the platens, and then suddenly WHAM, energy (charge) was peeling off, layer after layer, like a beam shooting out the top of my head. I went into a 10 minute "line-charge", laughing and laughing, uncontrollably. The "blowing of charge" just wouldn't stop. It kept on keeping on, in a way like NEVER before - and I had some pretty amazing "blow outs" previously.

I suppose I could have somehow convinced myself or hypnotized myself to experience such an "EP". But that seems unlikely to me.

I am curious. It may be that I have "dubbed-in" or "added to" some of this after 30 or so years. Does anyone out there have some info on what Hubbard states about the "EP" and "manifestations" that occur at the end of OT II? As I recall, and I may have some sloppy memories here, when I studied OT III theory, it mentioned some about what happens at the end of OT II. And, it happened!

Of course, I assumed that this meant that the "theory must be correct and accurate as described", meaning that the data on the implants was all "just as it happened in the long ago past".

See, I never had anything like this happen from meditation or other practices. Granted, also, I never was in an environment that enabled me to "practice" mental techniques to such a "focused" degree. I have thought at times that it is THAT factor that made Scn auditing "effective" - that for the first, and probably only time, for most people, you are DOING SOMETHING WITH YOUR MIND consistently, with focus, with intention and repetitively. Without the framework of Scn training, such dedicated focus of the mind is rare - even in other "practices".

For instance, as I recall, and again I may have added some to this memory, when I went exterior with full perception on TRs, I suddenly found my "self" BETWEEN the heads of my body and my twin, with 360 degree visual perception. I saw EVERYTHING clearly, and it felt entirely "normal" and "natural". There was no effort. It lasted about 10 seconds. Now maybe I had discussed such a possibility with a college friend who was also getting itno Scn at the same time, and possibly I "set myself up for the experience". I consider that possibility. I just don't know, other than it "seems to have happend".

I wonder at times if people in other practices experience such INTENSE and INCREDIBLE states of consciousness, or if there really was/is something unique to some of the Scn auditing techniques.

To this day I still do a "spacation drill" from a PAB (Professional Auditor Bulletin) because it is just so GOOD at getting me "out of my head", clicks me into a "no thinking mode", where I am "just there as an observer, quiet and serene". Hubbard's whole realm of data on "creating space" by "putting out anchor points" still makes sense to me, and I have never seen such information anywhere else. If I am foggy or tired, I just walk outside, put out my attention, spot some spots, notice a tree, notice a bird, and "get extroverted". "Locationals" have always worked for me, and I have used them on others (non-Scientologists) who one-for-one enjoy the "results". Locationals "trick" people into extending their space and "putting out anchor points".

So, while I have never found that the gains and abilities described by Hubbard to be valid, I have found that there is "something there that works". In a "positive way". Maybe it was all suggestion. I just have no way of knowing as I have little personal experience of such intense states from any other practice. And, I HAVE experimented with quite a bit of "other practices".

 

[Leon]

Good stuff Gadfly.

What you experienced is what you experienced. No need to try and reinterprate it as maybe having been somethjing else. Veda will try and tell you it was all Hubbard's implanting of delusions into you, but only you know what you experienced and how real it was at the time.

 

[Gadfly]

Good stuff Gadfly.

What you experienced is what you experienced. No need to try and reinterprate it as maybe having been somethjing else. Veda will try and tell you it was all Hubbard's implanting of delusions into you, but only you know what you experienced and how real it was at the time.

My point is that NONE of us know "why" it did what it did. ANY attempt to explain it is an "interpretation", either because I was "pre-conditioned for it", or because "the tech works as delineated by Hubbard".

Functionally speaking, there is no doubt that the organization that Hubbard set up intentionally confuses and misidentifies the WINS with the rest of the belief structure and paradigm that Hubbard created. The "feeling good stuff" gets "attached" to the subject of Hubbard, the man, the subject of Scientology, the goals of Scientology, and on and on. As I said on another post, without the "wins" the sinking ship known as Scientology could and would NEVER stay afloat.

The "wins" are often real, and I have no idea WHY the "tech" does what it does, but there is no doubt that whatever the reason, it is NOT because "Hubbard ws a great genius" whose "aim was to free Mankind". Scientology might help you to feel good, even real good at times, but it will NEVER bring you to "spiritual freedom". THAT is a hard thing to face for many overly-dedicated and overly-indoctrinated Scientology adherents. Scientology is an intricate web of deceit, with a few "really good wins" thrown in to keep it all going.

Also, any experience is not the same as the reasons that led to the unique experience.

I was once really in love with a girl. THAT was "real to me". Then she cheated on me, a few times, still claimed to "love me", and caused me untold upset and worry. Was my experience of love "real" or not? It "existed", but how "real" was it? Such is the case for a great many "subjective" experiences. Such is the case with the "wins" of Scientology. They exist, and they are something, but I suspect they are NOT at all what they are purported to be and what they are explained as by Hubbard in the context of the Scientology paradigm.

Part of growing up and maturing, and evolving, is learning NOT to base "truth" solely on the limited, biased, and flawed personal experiences of the "self". That is something one might learn from following a path similar to Buddhism. That is NOT something one will probably ever learn following ANY version of Scientology.

 

[Veda]

-snip-

I suppose I could have somehow convinced myself or hypnotized myself to experience such an "EP". But that seems unlikely to me.

-snip-

The point in not, necessarily, that you were hypnotized to experience such an "EP," but that the "EP" comes with "baggage": lots of tiny little psychological hooks. Extreme examples of the effects of that baggage can be found in places such as Freezone conventions or at Marty Rathbun's Blog.

Hubbard threw a lot of stuff out there, and some of it is bound to go "Boing!" for anyone eventually and impress the heck out of them. Some people hang around for decades, blow their life savings, and even hand over their children waiting for the next "Boing!"

It becomes perplexing when these same poeple leave Scientology and compare notes, and discover that one person's "Boing!" was another person's "Eh," and another person's "Eh" was some one else's "Boing!" However, this can be rationalized away, and ignoring-away and rationalizing-away are essential skills for Scientologists.

Each saw his or her Scientological "Boing!" as proof that "Scientology worked," and was filled with renewed hope that this was indeed the "Bridge."

After a while, the "Boing!" becomes a distant memory, but is "rehabbed" somewhat by being recalled to others in conversation. The person may even leave Scientology, but the "Boing!" stays with him.

People who share the same "Boing!" - or for that matter any Scientologists - will pat him on the back and "validate" him for the "Boing!"

Scientology - over all - as a subject, is very "hypnotic," but uses other things besides "hypnosis." (Which, itself, is a problematic term, but I occasionally use it because nothing else quite says it, and because Hubbard reaffirmed his pride in his ability as a people-using hypnotist in his 'Affirmations', although "manipulation" is possibly a better term.)

Scientology is a mix, and some of the mix is good. "Boings" can be very good, but if a person swallows one, getting the tiny hooks out can be difficult.

The nature of auditing changes around the time that it becomes confidential. It's a bait and switch, and Scientologists are not supposed to notice. Even after the bait and switch occurs, such things as the process of abreaction - unearthing stuff accompanied by the feeling of relief or elation - can occur, and the non-manipulative aspects of auditing, such as simple communcation, remain as a benign medium through which manipulative aspects manifest.

It's quite a clever trap.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

My point is that NONE of us know "why" it did what it did. ANY attempt to explain it is an "interpretation", either because I was "pre-conditioned for it", or because "the tech works as delineated by Hubbard".

Functionally speaking, there is no doubt that the organization that Hubbard set up intentionally confuses and misidentifies the WINS with the rest of the belief structure and paradigm that Hubbard created. The "feeling good stuff" gets "attached" to the subject of Hubbard, the man, the subject of Scientology, the goals of Scientology, and on and on. As I said on another post, without the "wins" the sinking ship known as Scientology could and would NEVER stay afloat.

The "wins" are often real, and I have no idea WHY the "tech" does what it does, but there is no doubt that whatever the reason, it is NOT because "Hubbard ws a great genius" whose "aim was to free Mankind". Scientology might help you to feel good, even real good at times, but it will NEVER bring you to "spiritual freedom". THAT is a hard thing to face for many overly-dedicated and overly-indocrinated Scientology adherents. Scientology is an intricate web of deceit, with a few "really good wins" thrown in to keep it all going.

Also, any experience is not the same as the reasons that led to the unique experience.

I was once really in love with a girl. THAT was "real to me". Then she cheated on me, a few times, still claimed to "love me", and caused me untold upset and worry. Was my expereince of love "real" or not? It "existed", but how "real" was it? Such is the case for a great many "subjective" experiences. Such is the case with the "wins" of Scientology. They exist, and they are something, but I suspect they are NOT at all what they are purported to be and what they are explained as by Hubbard in the context of the Scientology paradigm.

Part of growing up and maturing, and evolving, is learning NOT to base "truth" solely on the limited, biased, and flawed personal experiences of the "self". That is something one might learn from following a path similar to Buddhism. That is NOT something one will probably ever learn following ANY version of Scientology.

^^^^ That is one GREAT post !

 

[Veda]

Are you saying you find it uninteresting?

I'm saying that I'm no longer impressed by it.

"Impressed," as in the method used to manufacture license plates.

As I'm sure you've noticed, some people remain very impressed.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Re: The State of Clear takes Turd Polishing to an Art Form.

This thread may go over 10,000 posts of posting about something that never existed in the first place.

This thread should should be retitled :

" A Noble Search into why a Ghost Story will always be a Ghost Story "

Or

" Cleared onto the Bridge "

 

[Soul of Ginnungagab]

The Term "Viewpoint"

I no longer hold with the scientological definition of a viewpoint. I have gone back to what I consider a more honest of viewpoint and that is from where one views.

If I look out my patio door from the couch then that particular viewpoint is from the couch out the patio door.

What I think about what I see out the door or what I think about what I see or what I feel about what I see or what I've been told to think about what I see.....yo me, all that ain't viewpoint.

So when people start getting over into a "viewpoint" as somehow being a judgement I really start getting mired in the mindfuck of that insanity.....so glad [WIKI][/WIKI]me and the cult parted ways and parted ways on beliefs, too.

I am somewhat puzzled about your comments on the term "viewpoint".

You are correct that the literal sense of the term is an actual point, a place, from where you view something, and I have seen it applied that way both inside Scientology and outside. But often it is also applied in a non-literal way, that is figuratively or metaphorically, like you can think of a train from the viewpoint of a train passenger or from the viewpoint of a train driver or from the viewpoint of a train manufactorer. Or when different people express different opinions and judgements it is often often referred to as people having different viewpoints. I can certainly NOT tell whether a person have scientologeese experience or not based on that usage of the word.

It is just like so many other words that both have a literal meaning and a metaphorical one.

 

[Panda Termint]

I'm saying that I'm no longer impressed by it.

"Impressed," as in the method used to manufacture license plates.

As I'm sure you've noticed, some people remain very impressed.

Thanks. I find it (the meter phenomena) rather interesting for a couple of reasons. I prefer to dissuade people from monkeying with this stuff but one day some adventurous soul will undoubtedly conduct an experiment or two which might cause some to reconsider certain fixed ideas. Maybe.

 

[DagwoodGum]

It definitely impresses some people.

In an 8 March 1963 HCOB, Hubbard defined an implant as, "an electronic means of overwhelming a thetan with a significance. Use was made of the actual patterns of living to impress and entrap a thetan and force obedience of behavior patterns."

Hubbard became the "Implanter" - officially - when he told Scientologists the (deadly serious, dangerous, too difficult to discover on their own, yet vital to their survival) contents of their own minds (and spaces) through his "Confidential Upper Level" materials.

He even gave them electro-meters, which would "tell them" that the dangerous and vital-to-survival significance was "true," thus "using electronics to overwhelm with significance."

Some "actual patterns of living" were included "to enforce and entrap."

Hubbard from 14 August 1963, during a lecture - in this instance couched in a description of psychiatry:

"Psychiatry is authoritarian and tells a person what's wrong with him, often introducing a new lie."

The e-meter had become the "electronic means," with people reading their super-hyped secret materials where Hubbard told them.

It all seemed very adventurous - travelling down the "whole track" with RON leading the way - and with the meter, it seemed very scientific, and it was definitely impressive.


"Your writing has a deep hypnotic effect on poeple and they are always pleased with what you write...

"Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions."

L. Ron Hubbard, 1946

"In an 8 March 1963 HCOB, Hubbard defined an implant as, "an electronic means of overwhelming a thetan with a significance. Use was made of the actual patterns of living to impress and entrap a thetan and force obedience of behavior patterns."

This is an exceptional post and everything I was going to add to your original thought, you added yourself in the continuation of your post, which I REALLY LIKED!

 

[DagwoodGum]

Re: The State of Clear takes Turd Polishing to an Art Form.

This thread may go over 10,000 posts of posting about something that never existed in the first place.

This thread should should be retitled :

" A Noble Search into why a Ghost Story will always be a Ghost Story "

Or

" Cleared onto the Bridge "

"Turd polishing", I love it! I guess one man's toilet of turd is another man's pot of gold, LOL. And you can't argue that they got nothing for their money either, that make's it all the more hillarious! And how they toiled for that toilet of turd...

 

[Panda Termint]

Re: The State of Clear takes Turd Polishing to an Art Form.

"Turd polishing", I love it! I guess one man's toilet of turd is another man's pot of gold, LOL. And you can't argue that they got nothing for their money either, that make's it all the more hillarious! And how they toiled for that toilet of turd...

"Turd polishing" is an interesting choice of words when one considers that the thing being ostensibly "polished" in scientology is the Spiritual Self.
I guess it all depends on your considerations about Self.

 

[Terril park]

I'm not inclined to go searching for the actual compete Clearing Course materials, but OT 2 is similar. Here's a sampling of a typical implant description from OT 2:

"The first (earliest) bit of the bank is not an item but a light. It appears to the left front of the face, some distance away (Look ahead and to the left a bit and you'll spot it.)

This is untrue. Its part of the CC platens not OT 2.

Thought you knew better.

 

[Terril park]

The meter phenomena on OT2 is kinda interesting. Most who've done it would probably agree on that point. Maybe.

True.

The physical amd mental manifestations were extrordinary!

Below my first success on OT 2.

---------


Here in beautiful Semmering I've just Started to dip my toes into OT 2.
Instructed by Ralph Hilton.Getting there is a big win in itself and another story.

This is auditing unlike any I've ever done, over and above being my own
auditor. I've had the strangest sensations, somatics and all sorts turn
on and then turn off. Its been fascinating. went a litle exterior a couple of
times which is always nice. Still not sure of what wins exactly I've got, as
is often the case for me. At least not until some time after.

One of the wins is the almost, magical, ( I can't think of a more appropriate
word) way this tech is working. I was running some wholetrack concepts, and things
went quite well. Went out to lunch and found that after a few minutes of walking
I felt as though I was on drugs. This is very odd because the only drug
experience I've had worth talking about is on one occasion smoking pot some
decades ago. Then on the Purif, Some remnants of general anaesthetics were dredged
up and affected me and then ran out. That was also a long time ago. I've never
had any drug type feelings since. Or had anything since but aspirin and alcohol.
So I carried on with the next related concepts on OT 2. The drugged feeling
vanished. I felt very good.
I was astonished that these sensations could be turned on and off by such
simple concepts. Well I've just been doing this for a few days, and have lots to
look forward to.

This level has turned things on stronger, faster and more often than anything
else I've ever done. Have only done a few hours so far. It looks as though I've got a few hundred to go. I'm looking forward to this. Looks like some trip.

 

[Terril park]

What was always so weird about OT II, in retrospect, is that BEFORE I ever read any of "what often happens at the end of OT II", it HAPPENED to me!

I was running the platens, and then suddenly WHAM, energy (charge) was peeling off, layer after layer, like a beam shooting out the top of my head. I went into a 10 minute "line-charge", laughing and laughing, uncontrollably. The "blowing of charge" just wouldn't stop. It kept on keeping on, in a way like NEVER before - and I had some pretty amazing "blow outs" previously.

I suppose I could have somehow convinced myself or hypnotized myself to experience such an "EP". But that seems unlikely to me.

I am curious. It may be that I have "dubbed-in" or "added to" some of this after 30 or so years. Does anyone out there have some info on what Hubbard states about the "EP" and "manifestations" that occur at the end of OT II? As I recall, and I may have some sloppy memories here, when I studied OT III theory, it mentioned some about what happens at the end of OT II. And, it happened!

Of course, I assumed that this meant that the "theory must be correct and accurate as described", meaning that the data on the implants was all "just as it happened in the long ago past".

See, I never had anything like this happen from meditation or other practices. Granted, also, I never was in an environment that enabled me to "practice" mental techniques to such a "focused" degree. I have thought at times that it is THAT factor that made Scn auditing "effective" - that for the first, and probably only time, for most people, you are DOING SOMETHING WITH YOUR MIND consistently, with focus, with intention and repetitively. Without the framework of Scn training, such dedicated focus of the mind is rare - even in other "practices".

For instance, as I recall, and again I may have added some to this memory, when I went exterior with full perception on TRs, I suddenly found my "self" BETWEEN the heads of my body and my twin, with 360 degree visual perception. I saw EVERYTHING clearly, and it felt entirely "normal" and "natural". There was no effort. It lasted about 10 seconds. Now maybe I had discussed such a possibility with a college friend who was also getting itno Scn at the same time, and possibly I "set myself up for the experience". I consider that possibility. I just don't know, other than it "seems to have happend".

I wonder at times if people in other practices experience such INTENSE and INCREDIBLE states of consciousness, or if there really was/is something unique to some of the Scn auditing techniques.

To this day I still do a "spacation drill" from a PAB (Professional Auditor Bulletin) because it is just so GOOD at getting me "out of my head", clicks me into a "no thinking mode", where I am "just there as an observer, quiet and serene". Hubbard's whole realm of data on "creating space" by "putting out anchor points" still makes sense to me, and I have never seen such information anywhere else. If I am foggy or tired, I just walk outside, put out my attention, spot some spots, notice a tree, notice a bird, and "get extroverted". "Locationals" have always worked for me, and I have used them on others (non-Scientologists) who one-for-one enjoy the "results". Locationals "trick" people into extending their space and "putting out anchor points".

So, while I have never found that the gains and abilities described by Hubbard to be valid, I have found that there is "something there that works". In a "positive way". Maybe it was all suggestion. I just have no way of knowing as I have little personal experience of such intense states from any other practice. And, I HAVE experimented with quite a bit of "other practices".

PAB 12 to me seems to have relevence here. re OT 2&3.