The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Gottabrain]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

lkwdbids,

I've been curious about the research auditors Hubbard used. He talks about them quite a bit in the '51-'52 lectures as he's switching from Dianetics to Scientology, moving from man-as-superman to man-as-immortal-being--around the time he wrote SOS.

Do you have information about them? I assume he's always used research auditors. Any references or suggestions? I think I remember scanning a few of your posts and you saying you did research auditing for him.

Since my wife and I had a sit-down at the beginning of the year, I've been assigned a budget of fifteen minutes a day (max, non-accumulative) with regards to all things Scientology. For some reason, she thinks the subject brings out the worst in me. Like too much creatine: makes me too aggressive and combative.

Since I love laying on my back and having my belly scratched....

Fifteen minutes it is.

Michael

I met a few when I worked at AOLA in the 80s. They were called the "Old ACC" students.

Talked to one back then for at least half hr. I worked in Treasury (Income) and he was routing onto services free of charge, so we were discussing a policy by L Ron that stated all old ACC students receive repair auditing free forever. Not exact quote, but the policy was short and clear. No exceptions. In fact, the name of the HCOPL was "Old ACC Students".

This old ACC student said the stuff they did back then really messed him up. Messed up a lot of people. He estimated there were about 30 people that participated. No long term studies on anything, they would all decide to run something that day and whatever happened, happened and if it was bad, they'd try to patch each other up. He said, "it was pretty rough back then".

He didn't stay on lines very long. Never saw him again after the repair. He was upset when the reg tried to charge him for OT levels.

Somehow that policy about free reviews disappeared some years later. Hmmm.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

lkwdbids,

I've been curious about the research auditors Hubbard used. He talks about them quite a bit in the '51-'52 lectures as he's switching from Dianetics to Scientology, moving from man-as-superman to man-as-immortal-being--around the time he wrote SOS.

Do you have information about them? I assume he's always used research auditors. Any references or suggestions? I think I remember scanning a few of your posts and you saying you did research auditing for him.

Since my wife and I had a sit-down at the beginning of the year, I've been assigned a budget of fifteen minutes a day (max, non-accumulative) with regards to all things Scientology. For some reason, she thinks the subject brings out the worst in me. Like too much creatine: makes me too aggressive and combative.

Since I love laying on my back and having my belly scratched....

Fifteen minutes it is.

Michael

15 minutes isn't a lot

John McMaster talks about researching the power processes on recorded talks that I have up for public use on dropbox. Here is a link to the original posting , here on the Apollo thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...he-Apollo-1973&p=619738&viewfull=1#post619738

PS: you might want to ask Mystic on the FCDC thread the same question.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

lkwdbids,

I've been curious about the research auditors Hubbard used. He talks about them quite a bit in the '51-'52 lectures as he's switching from Dianetics to Scientology, moving from man-as-superman to man-as-immortal-being--around the time he wrote SOS.

Do you have information about them? I assume he's always used research auditors. Any references or suggestions? I think I remember scanning a few of your posts and you saying you did research auditing for him.

Since my wife and I had a sit-down at the beginning of the year, I've been assigned a budget of fifteen minutes a day (max, non-accumulative) with regards to all things Scientology. For some reason, she thinks the subject brings out the worst in me. Like too much creatine: makes me too aggressive and combative.

Since I love laying on my back and having my belly scratched....

Fifteen minutes it is.

Michael

Bardo, you've got the wrong guy as far as doing research for Hubbard. I was never involved in anything of that sort, nothing even remotely close. Perhaps you are thinking of Johnny Rafanello, (Magic Thetan). It seems to me, he made claims of the nature you are referring to when he was posting here around Fall of 2010.

It looks like Gotta Brain and Carmelo had some good info for you above. Only 15 minutes a day, wow, that is enough to read and answer about 1 post. My ex wife suggested that I limit myself to one hour a day on ESMB in 2009 and now we are exes. Seriously, though, that suggestion of hers had nothing to do with us breaking up the marriage.

I am the poster boy for maintaining a great relationship with an ex. We are such good friends now, sort of like a Brother and Sister team. Its all mutual concern and helping one another. Not even one harsh word in at least a year. We do have the two kids to mutually deal with, a 29 year old Son and a 24 year old Daughter. The 4 of us did Thanksgiving together. One thing is that I am almost 14 years older than she is. She is a full on Baby Boomer and I am from that generation that was born just before the baby boomers (Dec., 1939) This led to different tastes in music, different attitudes towards drugs, etc.

We discussed this topic on the Apollo thread quite thoroughly over a year ago. The theory is that those born during and after WWII were beings who died in the War. They tended to blame religions and governments for the devastation of WWI and WWII. They rebelled against authority and yearned for freedom and peace.

Though I died at the hands of the Nazis, it was in 1938 in Czechoslavakia as a young boy of 13 1/2. It doesn't seem like much but dying in 1938 and dying in 1945 makes all the difference in the world. We are from two extremely different generations. My generation tends to view things more like a Ronald Reagan or Barry Goldwater. We tend to be more straight laced and conservative, respectfull of authority and tolerant of the mainstream religions, political parties and "Authority" in general. Of course there are exceptions to this, but the tendency to be like that is quite obvious.

Speaking of Johnny, I saw him at a dinner in Fullerton less than two weeks ago and am supposed to see him again today at a luncheon in the San Fernando Valley. This luncheon is being put on by one of our former regulars here who quit posting on ESMB over a year ago.
Lakey

 

[BardoThodol]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I met a few when I worked at AOLA in the 80s. They were called the "Old ACC" students.

Talked to one back then for at least half hr. I worked in Treasury (Income) and he was routing onto services free of charge, so we were discussing a policy by L Ron that stated all old ACC students receive repair auditing free forever. Not exact quote, but the policy was short and clear. No exceptions. In fact, the name of the HCOPL was "Old ACC Students".

This old ACC student said the stuff they did back then really messed him up. Messed up a lot of people. He estimated there were about 30 people that participated. No long term studies on anything, they would all decide to run something that day and whatever happened, happened and if it was bad, they'd try to patch each other up. He said, "it was pretty rough back then".

He didn't stay on lines very long. Never saw him again after the repair. He was upset when the reg tried to charge him for OT levels.

Somehow that policy about free reviews disappeared some years later. Hmmm.

GOTTA,

Interesting story.

I always wondered what these individuals came across in their searches. Hubbard obviously had an agenda, which would bias any information passing down the chute. What did they find that we'll never know about? Lot of knowledge got lost along the way.

Was that you in the video interviews? Sheila? If so, I thought you had a very pleasant presence.

Michael

 

[BardoThodol]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

15 minutes isn't a lot

John McMaster talks about researching the power processes on recorded talks that I have up for public use on dropbox. Here is a link to the original posting , here on the Apollo thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...he-Apollo-1973&p=619738&viewfull=1#post619738

PS: you might want to ask Mystic on the FCDC thread the same question.

Carmelo,

Thanks for the McMasters references. Love (gasp!) that man. I listened to a bunch of his stuff when it hit the net, back when I was reading and posting on A.R.S. Think I'll give it a second peek.

Will add Mystic and FCDC to my list. Again, thanks.

Fifteen minutes seems adequate==usually. It's more a guideline than an iron rule. I smack the timer, devote myself for that brief period, and feel a sense of discipline when I can get done before the timer chimes. But, I've never met a rule I didn't want to break, so...

Time is the one resource I can't make more of. Money, possessions, friends are easy to come by. (Which doesn't imply expendability--merely facility in acquisition.) The clock is less generous. Thus choices regarding opportunity costs, sunk costs, diminishing returns.

Mostly, I look for patterns, fractals, memes. And anomalies to those patterns: contradictions, discrepancies. It's that mind set that kept me on the fringes of Scientology and finally provided the evidence to leave.

When my daughter was having trouble with Trig/Calc, we had a brief discussion about mathematics and life. I told her that the root of mathematics was knowledge. Knowing. That knowing came in patterns, that the formulas she studied were merely patterns, that the numbers were a pretense of knowing but could be applied to specific instances of knowing. What had more importance was knowing, was learning the patterns so she could figure out WTF. The math classes would just help her exercise the ability to discern patterns and apply them. There is a much broader mathematics to life.

So, why fifteen minutes? I look for people who aren't too bright, people who have the humility to learn from others. All of my friends are just as inadequate as I am. We learn a lot from one another. And learning is fun.

Being dumb is a lot less burdensome than wearing the mantel of perfection. Life's journey is hard enough without carrying the extra weight.

When I see someone calling others stupid or trying to convince another how wrong he is, I just accept that this person is way beyond my intelligence. He will never learn a thing from me, and I will never learn a thing from him.

Which inspires me not.

("Beyond" has more than one definition.)

Briefly, the avoided meme (Meme1) is: HAVING THE RIGHT IDEA and HAMMERING OUT OF EXISTENCE OTHER IDEAS. Talk about a formula for stultification.

I much prefer individuals with (arbitrarily) Meme2: have ideas that might be right or wrong, and are willing to listen and learn about other's ideas.

Thus, my formula for time expenditure is based on ratios of very little Meme1 vs unlimited Meme2.

I personally love new ideas, new insights. I love being around individuals who can make something new and exciting out of what was considered blase.

And, being around individuals who can recognize when this occurs.


Have great admiration for samples I've read from you and lakey.


ps: As a KU fan, the name Carmelo brings tears: KU vs Syracuse in the National Championship game, 2003. Sniff.

 

[BardoThodol]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Bardo, you've got the wrong guy as far as doing research for Hubbard. I was never involved in anything of that sort, nothing even remotely close. Perhaps you are thinking of Johnny Rafanello, (Magic Thetan). It seems to me, he made claims of the nature you are referring to when he was posting here around Fall of 2010.

It looks like Gotta Brain and Carmelo had some good info for you above. Only 15 minutes a day, wow, that is enough to read and answer about 1 post. My ex wife suggested that I limit myself to one hour a day on ESMB in 2009 and now we are exes. Seriously, though, that suggestion of hers had nothing to do with us breaking up the marriage.

I am the poster boy for maintaining a great relationship with an ex. We are such good friends now, sort of like a Brother and Sister team. Its all mutual concern and helping one another. Not even one harsh word in at least a year. We do have the two kids to mutually deal with, a 29 year old Son and a 24 year old Daughter. The 4 of us did Thanksgiving together. One thing is that I am almost 14 years older than she is. She is a full on Baby Boomer and I am from that generation that was born just before the baby boomers (Dec., 1939) This led to different tastes in music, different attitudes towards drugs, etc.

We discussed this topic on the Apollo thread quite thoroughly over a year ago. The theory is that those born during and after WWII were beings who died in the War. They tended to blame religions and governments for the devastation of WWI and WWII. They rebelled against authority and yearned for freedom and peace.

Though I died at the hands of the Nazis, it was in 1938 in Czechoslavakia as a young boy of 13 1/2. It doesn't seem like much but dying in 1938 and dying in 1945 makes all the difference in the world. We are from two extremely different generations. My generation tends to view things more like a Ronald Reagan or Barry Goldwater. We tend to be more straight laced and conservative, respectfull of authority and tolerant of the mainstream religions, political parties and "Authority" in general. Of course there are exceptions to this, but the tendency to be like that is quite obvious.

Speaking of Johnny, I saw him at a dinner in Fullerton less than two weeks ago and am supposed to see him again today at a luncheon in the San Fernando Valley. This luncheon is being put on by one of our former regulars here who quit posting on ESMB over a year ago.
Lakey

Lakey,

Your life and mine seem to have similarities with you moving forward a decade sooner, sort of like a round of Row,Row, Row Your Boat.

I got married late. Two kids 17 and 19. My wife's twenty years younger, but we managed to avoid divorce by learning to maintain a semblance of "suspension of disbelief." There seems to be a bit of truth in familiarity breeding contempt. We treat each day as dating someone new. Keeps things fresh.

My BFF (Emily is a pseudonym) is thirty years younger, and two individuals can't be more familiar. Which belies the familiarity bromine. I am she and she am me and we are all together.

So many contradictions in life.

A Nazi, I blew out my brains last life, fleeing the Allies during all the confusion following the collapse of Germany. The Fascist paradigm kept me worried the entire time I was involved with Scientology. Too many similarities. I kept wondering, "what if these fuckers could actually make the laws and do anything they wanted?" Kept me disturbed.

I didn't decide to be reborn until '47, which made for a '48 birth.

That you and your ex get along is fantastic. This love/hate flip-flop just isn't necessary. Each of us should be allowed to live our lives as best we can. If you truly like someone, you should be happy when they have the opportunity to fulfill themselves. When my wife and I were having some trouble a few years back and I thought she might be having an affair, I just thought I hoped she was happy. Turned out she wasn't. She's completely oblivious to how men are constantly checking her out.

I'll put Johnny's name on my list.

Glad you post.

later.

 

[RogerB]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There is a lot of rather conflicting data on this issue of the early research and who did what . . . and much of that conflicted data from Hubbard himself.

In the late '50's and early '60's Hubbard had us believe that the regular session reports the HASI's sent him were for his review on his research line. That is, the entire Scn fraternity was being played by him as a research "test tube." We basically all knew "the tech" was still being developed, and that the "latest and greatest" of his tech releases were often still in pilot format . . . and we certainly lived the never ending, constant changes and revisions . . . you've only got to read the historical Red on White to see that.

Not only were the ACC's "research" in experimental R/Ds . . . so was the original SHSBC . . . which by the way was a continuous course that ran for a couple of years with new R/Ds and processes being introduced, changed and/or abandoned.

And all the auditors who attended the ACCs and the "original" SHSBC were already professionally trained and experienced auditors . . . and most of them were cats who would and could think for themselves . . . so it was not uncommon for them to come up with bright ideas and do things that they then turned over to Hubbard for his use/abuse or plagiarism.

There is a story told to me by my old friend and then Melbourne staff member, Les Verity.

Les was on the 1st Melbourne ACC conducted in Aug-Sept (or thereabouts) 1959.

Two "students" were in session when, suddenly, the room filled with a bank of computers . . . this as a result of the "incident" the session PC collided with. These computers were not ordinarily in the room---they just suddenly appeared.

This perplexed the auditor, who went into a WTF!?! Err, umm, as Les related: "His TRs went out!"

So the auditor put in a session break and went out to get some advice. He found Dick Halpern who was one of LRH's "aides" for the ACC.

On explaining the shocking circumstances to Halpern, the instruction from Halpern was: "Go back in and run the bloody things out!"

Les didn't explain to me what the, if any, process advised for the action was

Having lived the circuit, as you will read on Alan's "Opening Pandora's Box" thread, they were rough days. In retrospect, I have to simply state that Hubbard was in fact criminally culpable for the damage he caused due to his irresponsible conduct of "research."

The arrogance and hubris of the man, in retrospect, is actually hard to credit. The trap, I would say, is that decent, responsible people wouldn't, couldn't conceive of such conduct and thus wouldn't believe they were being subject to it.

But in retrospect, that is the fact of the history. It's all there in the Red and White for those who care to see the truth . . . but more so it is in the stories of the guys and gals who have written of their experience of those times.

RogerB

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Carmelo,

Thanks for the McMasters references. Love (gasp!) that man. I listened to a bunch of his stuff when it hit the net, back when I was reading and posting on A.R.S. Think I'll give it a second peek.

Will add Mystic and FCDC to my list. Again, thanks.

Fifteen minutes seems adequate==usually. It's more a guideline than an iron rule. I smack the timer, devote myself for that brief period, and feel a sense of discipline when I can get done before the timer chimes. But, I've never met a rule I didn't want to break, so...

Time is the one resource I can't make more of. Money, possessions, friends are easy to come by. (Which doesn't imply expendability--merely facility in acquisition.) The clock is less generous. Thus choices regarding opportunity costs, sunk costs, diminishing returns.

Mostly, I look for patterns, fractals, memes. And anomalies to those patterns: contradictions, discrepancies. It's that mind set that kept me on the fringes of Scientology and finally provided the evidence to leave.

When my daughter was having trouble with Trig/Calc, we had a brief discussion about mathematics and life. I told her that the root of mathematics was knowledge. Knowing. That knowing came in patterns, that the formulas she studied were merely patterns, that the numbers were a pretense of knowing but could be applied to specific instances of knowing. What had more importance was knowing, was learning the patterns so she could figure out WTF. The math classes would just help her exercise the ability to discern patterns and apply them. There is a much broader mathematics to life.

So, why fifteen minutes? I look for people who aren't too bright, people who have the humility to learn from others. All of my friends are just as inadequate as I am. We learn a lot from one another. And learning is fun.

Being dumb is a lot less burdensome than wearing the mantel of perfection. Life's journey is hard enough without carrying the extra weight.

When I see someone calling others stupid or trying to convince another how wrong he is, I just accept that this person is way beyond my intelligence. He will never learn a thing from me, and I will never learn a thing from him.

Which inspires me not.

("Beyond" has more than one definition.)

Briefly, the avoided meme (Meme1) is: HAVING THE RIGHT IDEA and HAMMERING OUT OF EXISTENCE OTHER IDEAS. Talk about a formula for stultification.

I much prefer individuals with (arbitrarily) Meme2: have ideas that might be right or wrong, and are willing to listen and learn about other's ideas.

Thus, my formula for time expenditure is based on ratios of very little Meme1 vs unlimited Meme2.

I personally love new ideas, new insights. I love being around individuals who can make something new and exciting out of what was considered blase.

And, being around individuals who can recognize when this occurs.


Have great admiration for samples I've read from you and lakey.


ps: As a KU fan, the name Carmelo brings tears: KU vs Syracuse in the National Championship game, 2003. Sniff.

You might want to check out the Oriental game of "Go."

I introduced it to my daughter, when she was in 6th grade.

My daughter and I played every night. Sometimes she won, sometimes, I won.

One Sunday afternoon, a friend (who was then working on the Lisa project at Apple), who was a member of a group of people I hung with, who in turn, also played Go. Our friend sat down to play with her, thinking he was being an adult playing with a kid. As each successive move was made, he became more serious and studious. When she beat him, his face turned bright red. He ended up telling everyone for months the story of being beaten by a child. It altered his opinion of the capacities of children.

As a side note, JoJo Albert was that same sort of child. She could do the same number on adults at chess. It doesn't ever pay to underestimate children. Jo's father was a member of the social group that I hung with. He had two masters degrees. One in Electrical Engineering and the other in Physics. He was the go to person, when he was on the briefing course. He always knew and understood the tech, and could and did help others to sort it out.

 

[Leon]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

One needs to play Go with one's stomach and not with one's brain. It sounds odd but it was always so for me. Use the control centre thing in the solar plexus area and let that decide the moves. Keep any chess-playing intellect right out of the game. That's when you win.

It's a lovely game too.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Carmelo,

Thanks for the McMasters references. Love (gasp!) that man. I listened to a bunch of his stuff when it hit the net, back when I was reading and posting on A.R.S. Think I'll give it a second peek.

Will add Mystic and FCDC to my list. Again, thanks.

Fifteen minutes seems adequate==usually. It's more a guideline than an iron rule. I smack the timer, devote myself for that brief period, and feel a sense of discipline when I can get done before the timer chimes. But, I've never met a rule I didn't want to break, so...

Time is the one resource I can't make more of. Money, possessions, friends are easy to come by. (Which doesn't imply expendability--merely facility in acquisition.) The clock is less generous. Thus choices regarding opportunity costs, sunk costs, diminishing returns.

Mostly, I look for patterns, fractals, memes. And anomalies to those patterns: contradictions, discrepancies. It's that mind set that kept me on the fringes of Scientology and finally provided the evidence to leave.

When my daughter was having trouble with Trig/Calc, we had a brief discussion about mathematics and life. I told her that the root of mathematics was knowledge. Knowing. That knowing came in patterns, that the formulas she studied were merely patterns, that the numbers were a pretense of knowing but could be applied to specific instances of knowing. What had more importance was knowing, was learning the patterns so she could figure out WTF. The math classes would just help her exercise the ability to discern patterns and apply them. There is a much broader mathematics to life.

So, why fifteen minutes? I look for people who aren't too bright, people who have the humility to learn from others. All of my friends are just as inadequate as I am. We learn a lot from one another. And learning is fun.

Being dumb is a lot less burdensome than wearing the mantel of perfection. Life's journey is hard enough without carrying the extra weight.

When I see someone calling others stupid or trying to convince another how wrong he is, I just accept that this person is way beyond my intelligence. He will never learn a thing from me, and I will never learn a thing from him.

Which inspires me not.

("Beyond" has more than one definition.)

Briefly, the avoided meme (Meme1) is: HAVING THE RIGHT IDEA and HAMMERING OUT OF EXISTENCE OTHER IDEAS. Talk about a formula for stultification.

I much prefer individuals with (arbitrarily) Meme2: have ideas that might be right or wrong, and are willing to listen and learn about other's ideas.

Thus, my formula for time expenditure is based on ratios of very little Meme1 vs unlimited Meme2.

I personally love new ideas, new insights. I love being around individuals who can make something new and exciting out of what was considered blase.

And, being around individuals who can recognize when this occurs.


Have great admiration for samples I've read from you and lakey.


ps: As a KU fan, the name Carmelo brings tears: KU vs Syracuse in the National Championship game, 2003. Sniff.

I like you overview of what mathematics is all about! I hadn't read anything similar to your overview before.

My part time construction job with my former employee fizzled out. To keep active, I got out my old math puzzle books and brought them from my ex wife's house to my place.

In Math, I love the topic "Number Theory", the study of the integers, prime numbers and things of that nature. Though I'm not all that good at it, I like the studies which were going in in Europe in the mid to late 17th century and the late 18th century. My poster boy is the amateur mathematician Pierre du Fermat who died around 1660. His main career was as a jurist but he dabbled in math and become the greatest non professional mathematician of all time.

Lately, I've studied two fairly simple topics, "Fermat's Little Theorem" and "Wilson's Theorem". These two Theorems are almost elementary and occur near the beginnings of books on the subject but I decided to go for a FULL conceptual understanding of those two theorems. To follow a mathematical proof, it is possible to agree that every step of the proof is true and hence the proof is valid but still not understand conceptually what the proposition is all about and why it must be true. It took weeks and weeks of study but I think I finally achieved a conceptual understanding of those two Theorem's.

I like what you say about patterns in numbers. If you just look at the integers, what could be simpler? Let there be counting numers, 0,1,2,3....the list goes forward one by one, forever. Maybe the negative numbers need to be added to fill out the set? Well, immediately, an unending or infinite list in both directions introduces some problems but most people, just focus on the portion of the sequence which applies to life and the infinite aspect of the set does not bother them.

The interesting thing is that by just creating the simple set of integers, the mathematical fall out from this simple act is staggering, even overwhelming?

Bardo, your claim that certain other people must be much smarter than you makes it seem to me that you are the smartest of the lot! One of the things which LRH said, which appears to be a truth is that the first step in knowing is to know that you do not know. Here on ESMB, there are many posters who believe they know when they don't and there are some more wise individuals who know that they don't know it all.

Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

One needs to play Go with one's stomach and not with one's brain. It sounds odd but it was always so for me. Use the control centre thing in the solar plexus area and let that decide the moves. Keep any chess-playing intellect right out of the game. That's when you win.

It's a lovely game too.

I have a Go app installed on my iPod

I think of Go as a game played using basic math logic

 

[BardoThodol]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There is a lot of rather conflicting data on this issue of the early research and who did what . . . and much of that conflicted data from Hubbard himself.

In the late '50's and early '60's Hubbard had us believe that the regular session reports the HASI's sent him were for his review on his research line. That is, the entire Scn fraternity was being played by him as a research "test tube." We basically all knew "the tech" was still being developed, and that the "latest and greatest" of his tech releases were often still in pilot format . . . and we certainly lived the never ending, constant changes and revisions . . . you've only got to read the historical Red on White to see that.

Not only were the ACC's "research" in experimental R/Ds . . . so was the original SHSBC . . . which by the way was a continuous course that ran for a couple of years with new R/Ds and processes being introduced, changed and/or abandoned.

And all the auditors who attended the ACCs and the "original" SHSBC were already professionally trained and experienced auditors . . . and most of them were cats who would and could think for themselves . . . so it was not uncommon for them to come up with bright ideas and do things that they then turned over to Hubbard for his use/abuse or plagiarism.

There is a story told to me by my old friend and then Melbourne staff member, Les Verity.

Les was on the 1st Melbourne ACC conducted in Aug-Sept (or thereabouts) 1959.

Two "students" were in session when, suddenly, the room filled with a bank of computers . . . this as a result of the "incident" the session PC collided with. These computers were not ordinarily in the room---they just suddenly appeared.

This perplexed the auditor, who went into a WTF!?! Err, umm, as Les related: "His TRs went out!"

So the auditor put in a session break and went out to get some advice. He found Dick Halpern who was one of LRH's "aides" for the ACC.

On explaining the shocking circumstances to Halpern, the instruction from Halpern was: "Go back in and run the bloody things out!"

Les didn't explain to me what the, if any, process advised for the action was

Having lived the circuit, as you will read on Alan's "Opening Pandora's Box" thread, they were rough days. In retrospect, I have to simply state that Hubbard was in fact criminally culpable for the damage he caused due to his irresponsible conduct of "research."

The arrogance and hubris of the man, in retrospect, is actually hard to credit. The trap, I would say, is that decent, responsible people wouldn't, couldn't conceive of such conduct and thus wouldn't believe they were being subject to it.

But in retrospect, that is the fact of the history. It's all there in the Red and White for those who care to see the truth . . . but more so it is in the stories of the guys and gals who have written of their experience of those times.

RogerB

ROGER,

I know Hubbard talked about channeling. I've forgotten what he called it. Some red haired angel or something of the sort that provided him insights.

From stuff I've run across that has existed long before he ever set foot on this planet, his claims of being the first and only to discover some of his esoteric works are just patently ridiculous.

I don't know if the Akashic records are real or not. But there seems to be records on other levels that describe and record all that has occurred. Life seems to remember. And stores that memory.

Of course, what do I know.

 

[BardoThodol]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

You might want to check out the Oriental game of "Go."

I introduced it to my daughter, when she was in 6th grade.

My daughter and I played every night. Sometimes she won, sometimes, I won.

One Sunday afternoon, a friend (who was then working on the Lisa project at Apple), who was a member of a group of people I hung with, who in turn, also played Go. Our friend sat down to play with her, thinking he was being an adult playing with a kid. As each successive move was made, he became more serious and studious. When she beat him, his face turned bright red. He ended up telling everyone for months the story of being beaten by a child. It altered his opinion of the capacities of children.

As a side note, JoJo Albert was that same sort of child. She could do the same number on adults at chess. It doesn't ever pay to underestimate children. Jo's father was a member of the social group that I hung with. He had two masters degrees. One in Electrical Engineering and the other in Physics. He was the go to person, when he was on the briefing course. He always knew and understood the tech, and could and did help others to sort it out.

CO,

I've theorized that there has been an influx of very high powered beings on this planet over the past few decades. Kids with incredible talents. Amazingly brilliant. Much brighter than I could ever hope to be.

Both of my kids are smarter than me. A bit lazy. A bit spoiled, but incredibly bright. They simply don't buy into the system as it stands, and consequently see little reason to become a cog in its manufacture.

As for Go, I'm a mediocre sequential thinker and suck terribly at such games. I don't use logic in thinking. I just see things and then describe what I've seen. That I can make orderly descriptions creates the illusion that I think sequentially. People who know me well expect me to excel where I cannot. People who know me very well, have no such expectations, because they realize I'm a bit of an idiot savant.

I had to look up JoJo Albert. The name seemed familiar. Ah-ha! Seems she's become a bit of a Scientological Stasi Socialista, monitoring the networks and enforcing social compliance. But, that was merely my unstudied impression.

Curious the uses to which one can employ intelligence.

As she worked with LRH and has such a high opinion of him, the conundrum just continues to drum its riffs.

 

[BardoThodol]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

One needs to play Go with one's stomach and not with one's brain. It sounds odd but it was always so for me. Use the control centre thing in the solar plexus area and let that decide the moves. Keep any chess-playing intellect right out of the game. That's when you win.

It's a lovely game too.

Leon,

You've got to explain this for me. Well, maybe not "got to," but I sure am curious.

This ability to think with the solar plexus area is intriguing. Are you talking about Chakras?

My wife teaches yoga and I've tried to understand what chakras are, but I simply can get only vague impressions of them. I've tried every wavelength I could throw at the body, and came up.... hmmmmm.

Please, please, please.

 

[BardoThodol]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I like you overview of what mathematics is all about! I hadn't read anything similar to your overview before.

My part time construction job with my former employee fizzled out. To keep active, I got out my old math puzzle books and brought them from my ex wife's house to my place.

In Math, I love the topic "Number Theory", the study of the integers, prime numbers and things of that nature. Though I'm not all that good at it, I like the studies which were going in in Europe in the mid to late 17th century and the late 18th century. My poster boy is the amateur mathematician Pierre du Fermat who died around 1660. His main career was as a jurist but he dabbled in math and become the greatest non professional mathematician of all time.

Lately, I've studied two fairly simple topics, "Fermat's Little Theorem" and "Wilson's Theorem". These two Theorems are almost elementary and occur near the beginnings of books on the subject but I decided to go for a FULL conceptual understanding of those two theorems. To follow a mathematical proof, it is possible to agree that every step of the proof is true and hence the proof is valid but still not understand conceptually what the proposition is all about and why it must be true. It took weeks and weeks of study but I think I finally achieved a conceptual understanding of those two Theorem's.

I like what you say about patterns in numbers. If you just look at the integers, what could be simpler? Let there be counting numers, 0,1,2,3....the list goes forward one by one, forever. Maybe the negative numbers need to be added to fill out the set? Well, immediately, an unending or infinite list in both directions introduces some problems but most people, just focus on the portion of the sequence which applies to life and the infinite aspect of the set does not bother them.

The interesting thing is that by just creating the simple set of integers, the mathematical fall out from this simple act is staggering, even overwhelming?

Bardo, your claim that certain other people must be much smarter than you makes it seem to me that you are the smartest of the lot! One of the things which LRH said, which appears to be a truth is that the first step in knowing is to know that you do not know. Here on ESMB, there are many posters who believe they know when they don't and there are some more wise individuals who know that they don't know it all.

Lakey

Lakey,

Ok, smartass (compliment.) To quote Michael Corleone, "Just when I think I'm out, they keep pulling me in."

Because this has nothing to do with Scn, I just turned off the timer. Fuck it.

When I had more hubris than MMA fighters have sweat, I used to pride myself on being smart. Then I assessed what I knew against what I didn't, and became so embarrassed that I concluded: the difference between the smartest human and the dumbest as seen by the creative intelligence that designed all this is analagous to the difference between the smartest cockroach and the dumbest as seen by man. But, cockroaches are an invidious example. I've modified it to amoebas or field mice. Who knows the scale of magnitude?

Numbers are fascinating because they're magical. You can create so much illusion with numbers. But, what really lies behind them?

We start counting with integers fairly early, get pretty good fairly quickly, puff up our chests and say, "Look mommy, I can count to a hundred." And we count and count and count until one day we realize we can count forever and never run out of numbers.

Jumping Jehosaphat! Infinity! Suddenly, God takes on a new meaning.

But, "infinity" is always a theoretical. Always. Infinity cannot be reached in practice. There's just more and more, theoretically.

You take a series of integers and they mostly represent a sequence of equidistant points of orientation. Each is exactly the same distance from the other, either quantitatively or qualitatively.

But, what happens between them? What happens between 1 and 2?

Theoretically, "infinity" can happen between 1 and 2--or between 16 and 17, ad infinitum. If you start at 1 and move away, you've got 1.0 continuously adding zeroes with another 1 at the end of that string of zeros. Using base 10, you also find that as you approach 2, you've got an infinite string of 1.9999999999 moving off into forever, without theoretical end.

So, how can you crowd this infinite series of infinite series between two determined points? Obviously, there's a starting point and a stopping point, yet, at the other end, you're creating an infinity.

Shazam! Magic within magic! Sparkling clean, will remove the stains from any doubter's mind with one easy application! Just $10 bucks! Now, isn't it worth a measly $10 bucks to have a bit of certainty in life? Just step right up and buy a bottle of Shyster's Exotic Numerals and you'll be set for life.

However, the concept of theoretical infinities does have application. The internet is an example. You have all these computers interlinked, each with a potential to store more and more information ad infinitum. That theoretical limit runs smack into available resources and the available will to employ those resources to accomplish that theoretical state. Every year it seems more memory is made available. When will it stop?

Now, here comes a bit of radical esoterica. What if cells also operate much like the internet? What if each cell had access to streams of information running out into other dimensions? How much information could be stored? Each cell could serve as an access point.

But that's just a fun idea. Nothing serious.

The fall out from mathematics will continue to accelerate as human beings improve their grasp of the magic available in its simplicity.

I was going to write some stuff about math applied to thought, but I've got a time crunch, so, maybe tomorrow.

Ciao

 

[Good twin]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Bardo!

Pretty words......

 

[Leon]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I'm not quite sure how to answer you, Bardo. Mainly because I was never quite sure what was going on. I was into Mensa at one time and there were a group of us who also got into playing Go once a week. I approached the game on a tactical chess-playing approach and got beaten every time. So I switched to using a more gut-feeling approach and didn't quection the reasoning behind the moves I was prompted to make. I just went went ahead and placed the stones as my gut told me. And I won and won and won.

I suppose it is a Chakra there. Hubbard called them control centres. One can - or I can to a degree - locate them on and around one's body. I referred Paul to Ingo Swann's writings recently. He writes about these and has been quite an eye-opener for me on these matters. And other matters too.

But I'm no expert here. There is such a chakra thing that is very apparent to me just above my head and when I occupy that position and view from there then I at once become aware of a large egg-shaped area of white light via which I can energise my body to a remarkable degree. I can be dog-tired after a day's work but when I do this drill Whammo! the tiredness vanishes and I can proceed to do all sorts of other things untiol I decide it is now OK to rest the body.

All sorts of other things too.

cheers.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Bardo!

Pretty words......

Somebody has a crush!

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Lakey,

Ok, smartass (compliment.) To quote Michael Corleone, "Just when I think I'm out, they keep pulling me in."

Because this has nothing to do with Scn, I just turned off the timer. Fuck it.

When I had more hubris than MMA fighters have sweat, I used to pride myself on being smart. Then I assessed what I knew against what I didn't, and became so embarrassed that I concluded: the difference between the smartest human and the dumbest as seen by the creative intelligence that designed all this is analagous to the difference between the smartest cockroach and the dumbest as seen by man. But, cockroaches are an invidious example. I've modified it to amoebas or field mice. Who knows the scale of magnitude?

I know a lot of people feel this way. Gadfly, whose posts I admire, voiced a similar sentiment on another thread recently. I don't share these sentiments. Look at the creative arts, especially music. Some of the music written on this planet is truly inpired and this is true of many different genres. Music can be so moving to beings that unknown emotional experiences open up to them. A smart cockroach is many magnitudes lower. If you want to put yourself in the class of a smart cockroach, then that is what you will be. If you see yourself as something much higher than that, then that is what you will be.

Numbers are fascinating because they're magical. You can create so much illusion with numbers. But, what really lies behind them?

We start counting with integers fairly early, get pretty good fairly quickly, puff up our chests and say, "Look mommy, I can count to a hundred." And we count and count and count until one day we realize we can count forever and never run out of numbers.

Jumping Jehosaphat! Infinity! Suddenly, God takes on a new meaning.

But, "infinity" is always a theoretical. Always. Infinity cannot be reached in practice. There's just more and more, theoretically.

You take a series of integers and they mostly represent a sequence of equidistant points of orientation. Each is exactly the same distance from the other, either quantitatively or qualitatively.

But, what happens between them? What happens between 1 and 2?

Theoretically, "infinity" can happen between 1 and 2--or between 16 and 17, ad infinitum. If you start at 1 and move away, you've got 1.0 continuously adding zeroes with another 1 at the end of that string of zeros. Using base 10, you also find that as you approach 2, you've got an infinite string of 1.9999999999 moving off into forever, without theoretical end.

So, how can you crowd this infinite series of infinite series between two determined points? Obviously, there's a starting point and a stopping point, yet, at the other end, you're creating an infinity.

This reminds me of old Zeno of Elea and all his paradoxes (see my comments below). I believe that the subject of "Calculus" developed independently by Newton and Liebniz around the same time, takes care of these kinds of issues.

Shazam! Magic within magic! Sparkling clean, will remove the stains from any doubter's mind with one easy application! Just $10 bucks! Now, isn't it worth a measly $10 bucks to have a bit of certainty in life? Just step right up and buy a bottle of Shyster's Exotic Numerals and you'll be set for life.

However, the concept of theoretical infinities does have application. The internet is an example. You have all these computers interlinked, each with a potential to store more and more information ad infinitum. That theoretical limit runs smack into available resources and the available will to employ those resources to accomplish that theoretical state. Every year it seems more memory is made available. When will it stop?

Now, here comes a bit of radical esoterica. What if cells also operate much like the internet? What if each cell had access to streams of information running out into other dimensions? How much information could be stored? Each cell could serve as an access point.

But that's just a fun idea. Nothing serious.

The fall out from mathematics will continue to accelerate as human beings improve their grasp of the magic available in its simplicity.

I was going to write some stuff about math applied to thought, but I've got a time crunch, so, maybe tomorrow.

Ciao

Zeno of ancient Greece put forth some famous paradoxes having to do with infinity (see link below.)

http://www.answers.com/topic/zeno-s-paradoxes

In an imaginary footrace, Mercury runs twice as fast as a slower runner. The slow runner takes off first and at the 50 yard marker, Mercury takes off in pursuit. Mercury goes 50 yards but the other runner has moved forward 25 yards. Mercury covers the 25 yards but by then the other runner has gone another 12.5 yards. Mercury covers that but the slow runner moves forward 6.25 yards. Zeno postulates a situation in which Mercury can never catch the slower runner because every time he cuts the defecit in half, the slower runner maintains a finite, albeit decreasing lead.

In Calculus this paradox is neatly eliminated by having not just distance between the runners as a variable quantity but also in having the interval of time needed to cover that shrinking distance vary as well.

Say Mercury runs 10 yards a sec and the slower runner runs 5 yards a second. Not only is the space between the runners decreasing but the time to cover each interval is also decreasing. A ratio is formed and this ratio is summed.

Actually Mercury is gaining on the slow runner at the rate of 5 yards per second and starts out 50 yards behind so in 10 seconds, he will catch the slow runner.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

The Collected Writings of Bart Simpson

> These are the collected writings of Bart Simpson
> from the opening credits. Even if you're not a
> fan, you'll like these:
>
>
> I will not carve gods.
>
> I will not spank others.
>
> I will not aim for the head.
>
> I will not barf unless I'm sick
>
> I will not expose the ignorance of the faculty.
>
> I saw nothing unusual in the teacher's lounge.
>
> I will not conduct my own fire drills.
>
> Funny noises are not funny.
>
> I will not snap bras.
>
> I will not fake seizures.
>
> This punishment is not boring and pointless.
>
> My name is not Dr. Death.
>
> I will not defame New Orleans.
>
> I will not prescribe medication.
>
> I will not bury the new kid.
>
> I will not teach others to fly.
>
> I will not bring sheep to class.
>
> A burp is not an answer.
>
> Teacher is not a leper.
>
> Coffee is not for kids.
>
> I will not eat things for money.
>
> I will not yell "She's Dead" at roll call.
>
> The principal's toupee is not a Frisbee.
>
> I will not call the principal "spud head".
>
> Goldfish don't bounce.
>
> Mud is not one of the 4 food groups.
>
> No one is interested in my underpants.
>
> I will not sell miracle cures.
>
> I will return the seeing-eye dog.
>
> I do not have diplomatic immunity.
>
> I will not charge admission to the bathroom.
>
> The cafeteria deep fryer is not a toy.
>
> All work and no play makes Bart a dull boy.
>
> I will not say "Springfield" just to get applause.
>
> I am not authorized to fire substitute teachers.
>
> My homework was not stolen by a one-armed man.
>
> I will not go near the kindergarten turtle.
>
> I am not deliciously saucy.
>
> Organ transplants are best left to professionals.
>
> The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with "Hail
> Satan".
>
> I will not celebrate meaningless milestones.
>
> There are plenty of businesses like show business.
>
> Five days is not too long to wait for a gun.
>
> I will not waste chalk.
>
> I will not skateboard in the halls.
>
> Underwear should be worn on the inside.
>
> I will never win an emmy.
>
> I will not torment the emotionally frail.