The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[CarmeloOrchards]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Carmelo,

Thanks for the McMasters references. Love (gasp!) that man. I listened to a bunch of his stuff when it hit the net, back when I was reading and posting on A.R.S. Think I'll give it a second peek.

Will add Mystic and FCDC to my list. Again, thanks.

Fifteen minutes seems adequate==usually. It's more a guideline than an iron rule. I smack the timer, devote myself for that brief period, and feel a sense of discipline when I can get done before the timer chimes. But, I've never met a rule I didn't want to break, so...

Time is the one resource I can't make more of. Money, possessions, friends are easy to come by. (Which doesn't imply expendability--merely facility in acquisition.) The clock is less generous. Thus choices regarding opportunity costs, sunk costs, diminishing returns.

Mostly, I look for patterns, fractals, memes. And anomalies to those patterns: contradictions, discrepancies. It's that mind set that kept me on the fringes of Scientology and finally provided the evidence to leave.

When my daughter was having trouble with Trig/Calc, we had a brief discussion about mathematics and life. I told her that the root of mathematics was knowledge. Knowing. That knowing came in patterns, that the formulas she studied were merely patterns, that the numbers were a pretense of knowing but could be applied to specific instances of knowing. What had more importance was knowing, was learning the patterns so she could figure out WTF. The math classes would just help her exercise the ability to discern patterns and apply them. There is a much broader mathematics to life.

So, why fifteen minutes? I look for people who aren't too bright, people who have the humility to learn from others. All of my friends are just as inadequate as I am. We learn a lot from one another. And learning is fun.

Being dumb is a lot less burdensome than wearing the mantel of perfection. Life's journey is hard enough without carrying the extra weight.

When I see someone calling others stupid or trying to convince another how wrong he is, I just accept that this person is way beyond my intelligence. He will never learn a thing from me, and I will never learn a thing from him.

Which inspires me not.

("Beyond" has more than one definition.)

Briefly, the avoided meme (Meme1) is: HAVING THE RIGHT IDEA and HAMMERING OUT OF EXISTENCE OTHER IDEAS. Talk about a formula for stultification.

I much prefer individuals with (arbitrarily) Meme2: have ideas that might be right or wrong, and are willing to listen and learn about other's ideas.

Thus, my formula for time expenditure is based on ratios of very little Meme1 vs unlimited Meme2.

I personally love new ideas, new insights. I love being around individuals who can make something new and exciting out of what was considered blase.

And, being around individuals who can recognize when this occurs.


Have great admiration for samples I've read from you and lakey.


ps: As a KU fan, the name Carmelo brings tears: KU vs Syracuse in the National Championship game, 2003. Sniff.

The Story of S&D
John Mc Master

I would like to discuss the development of S&D for the implications it had in the subsequent development of scientogy technology. Had it not been designed the way it was, things might have gone a little differently.

Late summer 1965. The message read: Ron wants you to bring six of your best review auditors to his office at 5.15 pm today and would you get it all organised? When we were all there, he said that he had gotten us there for a specific reason, and the reason was to evolve a particular process which he wanted to call "Search and Discovery."

Now, in the processing that we were doing then, which was mainly the power processes and power plus, we were getting some cases moving magnificently fast, others sort of medium, and some cases moving very slowly.

He said there be some factor that was sort of impinging on these cases that were moving slowly, and this process was to be called Search and Discovery simply because it was to search for that which was impinging on the slow gain case and the no case gain, to search for this and then discover it.

And he wanted us to evolve a technology whereby this could be done
effectively.

Our Job

We got together and decided that it would be a good idea to have a listing
process to start off with on the search side of it, and then we would
discover an item.

We decided the listing question would be something along the lines of :"
Who or what is causing difficulty?":

We made a list and then we'd get whatever the item was, and then put the
item into a Represent (Who or what would the item represent), and then list away. If the item on the first list had been a person, one blew the charge off that person by getting the Represent our of it.

And on this "Who or what would item represent?" The PC invariably found a "What" in relation to his own behaviour or his own conditions of existence that got restimulated by the actions of the other person and caused what appeared to be the symptons of a "Potential Trouble Scource" as it was later called.

It was something the person had in his own makeup, his own behaviour
pattern, his own mental mass, that had a sort of magnetism for the behaviour of a certain person.

The other person did something, and this particular thing, in the whole
pattern of the PC, would cause an upset and prevent the PC from looking as clearly as he or she might look, from wanting to win, from doing whatever one was expecting the person to do.



Our Results

So we ran this listing process and the represent process, and we got what
we got , and took the results to Hubbard. And as I said, invariably it was a "What". And you cant declare a "What" that exists in the magnetic field of the PC to be a supressive person. There was a tremendous improvment in the PCs because they found out that in actual fact when they were so-called "being the effect" or "being supressed" by some one else it was because of themselves and something that they had that had compelled them to become the effect of the other persons behaviour.

But there there was another thing some of them found out. Some people found out that in their behaviour patterns they did things and behaved in such a way that they compelled the other person to commit suppressive acts towards them.

For instance , here's me. And, not during the auditing session but in my
every day life, I am doing something with a regularity that compelles another, who also has something in his magnetic field that my behaviour restimulates, to be suppressive towards me, and I am in actual fact causing it.

So there were two aspects that people began to find in this auditing:

1) they had something in their own space that got restimulated by another persons behaviour, and when they found that and blew it , they were no longer the effect of that persons behaviour, and

2) they were unknowingly doing something that was compelling the other
person to act suppressively toward them.

And everyone run on this process, with the listing and the represent, had
far more gain than is gotten from running up to the ethics officer and
disconnecting from a so called suppressive person.

We were really thrilled, because these people immediately after having had this kind of S&D process run on them , moved magnificently on the power processes.

Ron’s Response

We took the results to Hubbard, and he kind of hemmed and hawed and told us it was a little bit long winded and we could do it faster another
way. Eventually he changed the thing down to:"Who is suppressing you?", and it had to be a person. And when that person was spotted the PC had to go to the ethics officer with the folder.

The ethics officer then had to find out wether the person would "handle or disconnect" and in most cases the ethics officer decided of his or her own volition that the person was incapable of handling and compelled the person to disconnect.

Now if you look at the history of scientology from that point onward, late
summer-autumn of 1965, what was happening?

Suppressive people were becoming a reality and the ethics officer was
becoming an absolute necessity in any organization in order to safeguard
your technology.

Well nothing can safeguard technology better than perfect auditing. If you take the process and audit it perfectly, your technology is established. Having this via of darting around the corner to the ethics officer just gives the auditor an out. If he can't quite manage the PC or he can't quite manage the process, or he can't quite manage putting the two together, he always knows he can say"Well its OK; if I cant quite manage this then it becomes an ethics matter."

When a person was not moving as quickly as the person ought to be moving, they then had to have this S&D process, and then automatically it went onto ethics lines.

So then standard technology was very much involved with ethics; you
couldn't have standard technology without an ethics officer to handle these particular situations. So the supressive person became a reality and the ethics officer became an absolute necessity in order to have the tech working and standard.

The Result

So now the PC disconnects from this "Who"the ethics officer regards as a
suppressive person and yet still intact is the "What" that predisposed the
suppression in the first place. So the PC is still vunlerable to supression.

He disconnects, has a bit of relief, and mabye until the end of that
auditing intensive the PC is free from the impact of that other.But within
the makeup of that person, that which predisposes the PC to being supressed is untouched.

And the overt act of disconnecting from another, blaming another for ones own inadequacy, and the fact that one has this predisposition towards supression, compounds the felony.

The felony of whatever one has done that makes one vulnerable or
predisposed is still there, and that is compounded by the disconnection, which creates a heavy ARC break perhaps not only with the person being disconnected from, but with all the people to whom that person is connected.

So now you have the compounded felony. That auditing that should have been run out right there and then, is now being covered over by another overt act, the act of disconnection. And what does that do? It causes the
prolongation of that condition which predisposed the PC to supression in the first place.

S&Ds, such as they are run now, do not give the permenant relief or release from anything. What they do is prolong the agony of potential supression. So far from setting a person freer, they are in actual fact burying, and therefore prolonging the condition that predisposes and precipitates the supression.

This "standard technology" is in actual fact ruining the whole potential of
our aims and goals and purposes, because it is pressing out of sight that
which we were fortunate enough to have surface, that thing that is
predisposing the PC to feeling suppressed.


Suggested Procedure

It is a very healthy sign when some one you are auditing suddenly has
problems. So they say they're not making gains. So what? This indicates to you that something is in restimulation that prevents them from making gains and achieving their goals. This means you've got something right there and then, right at the surface, ready to be handled.

So you can do an S&D, but I suggest that you do it the way we did it
originally, before it was changed to a "Who" You might get this thing which has come into restimulation on the first listing, in which case it's gone.If you have to put it into a Represent list, well you'll get a whole lot there.

Now I didn't do this at the time, but it seems to me that you could then
put in a third question if you do a represent out to another item and you still haven't blown everything.

You could say "Now how do you use so and so to make yourself vulnerable to supression?" or a question of that nature. Then you have removed the predisposition to the suppression because that which was in the magnetic field of the PC that enabled the suppression to happen will never be there again, unless thePC puts it back. But it won't be the same one; it'll be another one.

So I hope this sheds a little light on the way an S&D could be run that
could give gain for all time, rather than this temporary relief by
committing an overt act on a fellow being on this planet at the same time
one is. It's not always such; sometimes one disconnects people out of
another time.

The Reality

However, this is just a vast Q&A with reality. The reality is that
somewhere in one's makeup is this predisposition to be suppressed, and when it is precipitated one behaves like a potential trouble scource. So, get out what's in restimulation and remove completly and forever the chances of being suppressed in that particular way.

That is how we started out on Search and Discovery, and how I feel it could be done even now. It's not too late, for Heavens sake! and we could get in and do the job properly.



Reprinted from The Free Spirit Dec 1990 Vol vii issue 4.

 

[FoTi]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

So....if people were making gains on this and handling whatever was in their own universe or electrical field that was making them feel supressed and it was working....why did LRH change it to something that was non workable and made the situation worse?

And.....if they really had the tech that released people from what was making them feel supressed and LRH changed it and left people stuck in it from then on instead of allowing them to get free of it.......that really, really, really pisses me off. That is so f@#king evil. What kind of monster would do that?

Since some were there who saw what worked......did anybody preserve it or hang onto it?

Does anybody have that tech now?

 

[BardoThodol]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I'm not quite sure how to answer you, Bardo. Mainly because I was never quite sure what was going on. I was into Mensa at one time and there were a group of us who also got into playing Go once a week. I approached the game on a tactical chess-playing approach and got beaten every time. So I switched to using a more gut-feeling approach and didn't quection the reasoning behind the moves I was prompted to make. I just went went ahead and placed the stones as my gut told me. And I won and won and won.

I suppose it is a Chakra there. Hubbard called them control centres. One can - or I can to a degree - locate them on and around one's body. I referred Paul to Ingo Swann's writings recently. He writes about these and has been quite an eye-opener for me on these matters. And other matters too.

But I'm no expert here. There is such a chakra thing that is very apparent to me just above my head and when I occupy that position and view from there then I at once become aware of a large egg-shaped area of white light via which I can energise my body to a remarkable degree. I can be dog-tired after a day's work but when I do this drill Whammo! the tiredness vanishes and I can proceed to do all sorts of other things untiol I decide it is now OK to rest the body.

All sorts of other things too.

cheers.

LEON,

Thank you very much. Interesting about the large egg-shaped area of white light.

Hubbard used to write and talk about red balls, gold balls, that sort of thing. I never found them in me. But, I've found something similar to what you're talking about.

Michael

 

[BardoThodol]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Zeno of ancient Greece put forth some famous paradoxes having to do with infinity (see link below.)

I know a lot of people feel this way. Gadfly, whose posts I admire, voiced a similar sentiment on another thread recently. I don't share these sentiments. Look at the creative arts, especially music. Some of the music written on this planet is truly inpired and this is true of many different genres. Music can be so moving to beings that unknown emotional experiences open up to them. A smart cockroach is many magnitudes lower. If you want to put yourself in the class of a smart cockroach, then that is what you will be. If you see yourself as something much higher than that, then that is what you will be.

lakey,

When I had that "insight," I didn't like others very much. At that time, the invidious comparison to cockroaches came from pockets of rage and hatred that sometimes consumed me. At that time I felt like the Orson Wells character, Harry Lime, looking down at the "ants" from above. Humanity seemed to be a virus.

Yet, I was also transforming. Something extraordinary was beginning to flow through me. I was beginning to feel something far greater and more intelligent than myself. Feel it earnestly rather than vaguely. It was like the wonder you see in children amped up exponentially.

The reasons to dislike and disparage others crumbled, fell off and began to drift away. Like a.

Where once I felt my intelligence made me superior to others in some significant manner, I was beginning to understand that we are all so very much alike. Maybe it was a vision similar to what Saul had in the Bible.

I was losing my desire to find fault in others and gaining an appreciation of what was wonderful. I was discovering that others had so much to offer, so much I could learn. There's that oriental aphorism that to understand a grain of sand is to understand the entire universe. It's not a slight on the grain of sand; it's an appreciation of the magnificence of connection.

Even the supposedly lowly cockroach has a place in the grand scheme. The design is so efficient the species has lasted for millions of years.

When I find insects in our home, or field mice, I catch them and place them outside. Maybe it's a bit of foolishness to feel one should respect all life. Some life forms seem so destructive. I know I get flu shots. I know I eat steak and shrimp. Plants are also alive and I eat them.

Living just requires a balance. Such as between forgiveness and justice. Respect life and use life to further life.

I know that place you speak of, that place from which inspiration comes, that place where all this beauty exists. I try to spend as much time there as I can. I like to throw down a blanket, rub a little oil on me, lay down, and bask in its warmth. I suppose you could say, I'm a tourist in God's arms.

And this from an agnostic gnostic.

My favorite scene from all the movies and plays I've seen is when Rutger Hauer is standing in the rain, explaining to the Bladerunner how magnificent life is, how precious the experience of the soaring beauty life has to offer. Such an incredibly powerful moment. Life is filled with a soaring beauty. A beauty only touched upon in the best of music.

And that beauty resides somewhere in each of us. All the billions of us.

And beyond.

The best of music and art help to take us there, help us see past the mundane into the grandness of which we are all a part. Art opens the door. It's up to us to walk through.

I don't hate anyone. Just can't find it in my heart anymore. Certainly, we all can understand more. Certainly, we can all be less selfish and take better care of one another and our environment. Certainly we all think and say things others regard as "stupid." And there are moments when we are all a bit ugly and mean-spirited. So what?

Sometimes, I see us like raindrops, all part of the water system supporting the planet. In groups, we're sort of like the multiplicity of streams and rivers all flowing into the same system. Some are more violent and turbulent and muddy than others. Some contain more virulent and destructive creatures. Some are placid and inspirational. But, in essence, all water.

There's a parable about an old man sitting on a hill overlooking a city. A man approaches, gruffly asks, "Old man, what's that city like?"

"I don't know. What was the city like you just came from?" the old man replies calmly.

"It was a horrible place. The people were ignorant. They couldn't do anything right. I couldn't wait to get away from the filthy bastards," he replied furiously.

"I see," said the old man, nodding. "Unfortunately, you will find the city below exactly like that."

The man stormed off.

A while later, another man approached.

"Sir, what is the city like below?" he asked, smiling while he paused to take a drink, offering some to the old man.

"I don't know. What was the city like you just came from?" asked the old man, sharing a drink.

The man's smile broadened. "One of the most wonderful places imaginable. The people were so friendly. Everyone helped one another. I made so many friends there that I will always remember. When I finish my business I'm going return and share what I gain."

"I see," said the old man, nodding. "Fortunately, you will find the city below exactly the same."

Just as my paradigms color how I view others; theirs color how they see me.

I've read much to admire in Gadfly's posts. He has many profound ideas. I really don't know him. I think his view is that reading me is a waste of time. Probably not bad advice. I'm often frustrated with myself also.

I've found much to admire going to other threads and reading the posts of those who took exception to me for one reason or another. We could all become better in one way or another. We all have lessons to learn. We all have our path to walk.

I'm looking at this timer, seeing it as a clue to life's great mystery. There's a lovely, quirky detective novel written by Sara Gran: Claire DeWitt and The City of The Dead. It's all about finding clues, not only to the murder but to life's mysteries.

The timer is definitely a clue.

Those who find the most fulfillment in life seem to be those who have devoted themselves. Maybe it's to writing, to a sport, to a cause, to a friend, family, lover, God. Devotion. The complete investment of self, without reservation. It's what makes love grand: to devote yourself completely to another. I think that's what attracted so many to Scientology: the opportunity to completely devote oneself to something greater.

And then came the betrayals.

And the need to discover something else to which we can devote ourselves and find fulfillment.

Sometimes, when lovers are too easy to find, it's hard to devote oneself to a single relationship. It's probably why the famous have so many divorces. There will always be someone else to take to bed. Always someone else who's willing. Sometimes, when your interests are too broad, it's hard to devote yourself to what you should. Hard to commit. Hard to be willing to overcome the difficulties. After all, why bother to fix something when you can afford to just throw it away and get another?

Come spring, the timer will be sold in our garage sale. Though it has an organizational/budgetary function, the timer also acts as an unintended insult. It says, in its way, this is not sufficiently important for my devotion.

I to write all my term papers the night before they were due. It served me well. Wait until the last minute, devote myself through the night, get my A, and forget about it. Life has it's Big Term Paper coming due soon. I'm getting old enough to appreciate the need to devote myself to taking this one seriously and doing as good a job as I can.

Ciao

 

[RogerB]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

So....if people were making gains on this and handling whatever was in their own universe or electrical field that was making them feel supressed and it was working....why did LRH change it to something that was non workable and made the situation worse?

And.....if they really had the tech that released people from what was making them feel supressed and LRH changed it and left people stuck in it from then on instead of allowing them to get free of it.......that really, really, really pisses me off. That is so f@#king evil. What kind of monster would do that?

Since some were there who saw what worked......did anybody preserve it or hang onto it?

Does anybody have that tech now?

Yes . . . All of us who've read this this post above

Alan incorporated this basic principle in certain of his R/Ds.

He created a R/D called "The Abused-Abuser Unlocking Procedure" . . . . it's a long R/D but it unlocks the present time strife the person is experiencing.

But it is also true that this level of tech is and must be approached in "gradients" or "layers" . . . . that is, there is the present life physical universe type manifestation of it, and there is the underlying truly spiritual Games Matrix level of it.

The real deal is that the "what" that John Mac wrote of is a locked-up negative existence you have both become and also gotten into conflict with in a Games Matrix on your case.

If you go to my write up of my FZ Pasadena presentation Here:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...gative-RogerB%92s-FZ-Presentation-in-Pasadena
You'll see how one has gone down from being positive and co-empowering to negative and in opposition to and suppressive of self and others in the game.

The trick is to locate the key negative package of identities and discharge them.

R

 

[BardoThodol]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The Story of S&D John Mc Master

I would like to discuss the development of S&D for the implications it had in the subsequent development of scientogy technology. Had it not been designed the way it was, things might have gone a little differently.

Late summer 1965. The message read: Ron wants you to bring six of your best review auditors to his office at 5.15 pm today and would you get it all organised? When we were all there, he said that he had gotten us there for a specific reason, and the reason was to evolve a particular process which he wanted to call "Search and Discovery."

Now, in the processing that we were doing then, which was mainly the power processes and power plus, we were getting some cases moving magnificently fast, others sort of medium, and some cases moving very slowly.

He said there be some factor that was sort of impinging on these cases that were moving slowly, and this process was to be called Search and Discovery simply because it was to search for that which was impinging on the slow gain case and the no case gain, to search for this and then discover it.

And he wanted us to evolve a technology whereby this could be done
effectively.

Our Job

We got together and decided that it would be a good idea to have a listing
process to start off with on the search side of it, and then we would
discover an item.

We decided the listing question would be something along the lines of :"
Who or what is causing difficulty?":

We made a list and then we'd get whatever the item was, and then put the
item into a Represent (Who or what would the item represent), and then list away. If the item on the first list had been a person, one blew the charge off that person by getting the Represent our of it.

And on this "Who or what would item represent?" The PC invariably found a "What" in relation to his own behaviour or his own conditions of existence that got restimulated by the actions of the other person and caused what appeared to be the symptons of a "Potential Trouble Scource" as it was later called.

It was something the person had in his own makeup, his own behaviour
pattern, his own mental mass, that had a sort of magnetism for the behaviour of a certain person.

The other person did something, and this particular thing, in the whole
pattern of the PC, would cause an upset and prevent the PC from looking as clearly as he or she might look, from wanting to win, from doing whatever one was expecting the person to do.



Our Results

So we ran this listing process and the represent process, and we got what
we got , and took the results to Hubbard. And as I said, invariably it was a "What". And you cant declare a "What" that exists in the magnetic field of the PC to be a supressive person. There was a tremendous improvment in the PCs because they found out that in actual fact when they were so-called "being the effect" or "being supressed" by some one else it was because of themselves and something that they had that had compelled them to become the effect of the other persons behaviour.

But there there was another thing some of them found out. Some people found out that in their behaviour patterns they did things and behaved in such a way that they compelled the other person to commit suppressive acts towards them.

For instance , here's me. And, not during the auditing session but in my
every day life, I am doing something with a regularity that compelles another, who also has something in his magnetic field that my behaviour restimulates, to be suppressive towards me, and I am in actual fact causing it.

So there were two aspects that people began to find in this auditing:

1) they had something in their own space that got restimulated by another persons behaviour, and when they found that and blew it , they were no longer the effect of that persons behaviour, and

2) they were unknowingly doing something that was compelling the other
person to act suppressively toward them.

And everyone run on this process, with the listing and the represent, had
far more gain than is gotten from running up to the ethics officer and
disconnecting from a so called suppressive person.

We were really thrilled, because these people immediately after having had this kind of S&D process run on them , moved magnificently on the power processes.

Ron’s Response

We took the results to Hubbard, and he kind of hemmed and hawed and told us it was a little bit long winded and we could do it faster another
way. Eventually he changed the thing down to:"Who is suppressing you?", and it had to be a person. And when that person was spotted the PC had to go to the ethics officer with the folder.

The ethics officer then had to find out wether the person would "handle or disconnect" and in most cases the ethics officer decided of his or her own volition that the person was incapable of handling and compelled the person to disconnect.

Now if you look at the history of scientology from that point onward, late
summer-autumn of 1965, what was happening?

Suppressive people were becoming a reality and the ethics officer was
becoming an absolute necessity in any organization in order to safeguard
your technology.

Well nothing can safeguard technology better than perfect auditing. If you take the process and audit it perfectly, your technology is established. Having this via of darting around the corner to the ethics officer just gives the auditor an out. If he can't quite manage the PC or he can't quite manage the process, or he can't quite manage putting the two together, he always knows he can say"Well its OK; if I cant quite manage this then it becomes an ethics matter."

When a person was not moving as quickly as the person ought to be moving, they then had to have this S&D process, and then automatically it went onto ethics lines.

So then standard technology was very much involved with ethics; you
couldn't have standard technology without an ethics officer to handle these particular situations. So the supressive person became a reality and the ethics officer became an absolute necessity in order to have the tech working and standard.

The Result

So now the PC disconnects from this "Who"the ethics officer regards as a
suppressive person and yet still intact is the "What" that predisposed the
suppression in the first place. So the PC is still vunlerable to supression.

He disconnects, has a bit of relief, and mabye until the end of that
auditing intensive the PC is free from the impact of that other.But within
the makeup of that person, that which predisposes the PC to being supressed is untouched.

And the overt act of disconnecting from another, blaming another for ones own inadequacy, and the fact that one has this predisposition towards supression, compounds the felony.

The felony of whatever one has done that makes one vulnerable or
predisposed is still there, and that is compounded by the disconnection, which creates a heavy ARC break perhaps not only with the person being disconnected from, but with all the people to whom that person is connected.

So now you have the compounded felony. That auditing that should have been run out right there and then, is now being covered over by another overt act, the act of disconnection. And what does that do? It causes the
prolongation of that condition which predisposed the PC to supression in the first place.

S&Ds, such as they are run now, do not give the permenant relief or release from anything. What they do is prolong the agony of potential supression. So far from setting a person freer, they are in actual fact burying, and therefore prolonging the condition that predisposes and precipitates the supression.

This "standard technology" is in actual fact ruining the whole potential of
our aims and goals and purposes, because it is pressing out of sight that
which we were fortunate enough to have surface, that thing that is
predisposing the PC to feeling suppressed.


Suggested Procedure

It is a very healthy sign when some one you are auditing suddenly has
problems. So they say they're not making gains. So what? This indicates to you that something is in restimulation that prevents them from making gains and achieving their goals. This means you've got something right there and then, right at the surface, ready to be handled.

So you can do an S&D, but I suggest that you do it the way we did it
originally, before it was changed to a "Who" You might get this thing which has come into restimulation on the first listing, in which case it's gone.If you have to put it into a Represent list, well you'll get a whole lot there.

Now I didn't do this at the time, but it seems to me that you could then
put in a third question if you do a represent out to another item and you still haven't blown everything.

You could say "Now how do you use so and so to make yourself vulnerable to supression?" or a question of that nature. Then you have removed the predisposition to the suppression because that which was in the magnetic field of the PC that enabled the suppression to happen will never be there again, unless thePC puts it back. But it won't be the same one; it'll be another one.

So I hope this sheds a little light on the way an S&D could be run that
could give gain for all time, rather than this temporary relief by
committing an overt act on a fellow being on this planet at the same time
one is. It's not always such; sometimes one disconnects people out of
another time.

The Reality

However, this is just a vast Q&A with reality. The reality is that
somewhere in one's makeup is this predisposition to be suppressed, and when it is precipitated one behaves like a potential trouble scource. So, get out what's in restimulation and remove completly and forever the chances of being suppressed in that particular way.

That is how we started out on Search and Discovery, and how I feel it could be done even now. It's not too late, for Heavens sake! and we could get in and do the job properly.



Reprinted from The Free Spirit Dec 1990 Vol vii issue 4.

CO,

Yeah, just another example of how something with so much potential was sidetracked. Hubbard always had this fixed idea that anyone could audit. And he was continuously trying to evolve methods by which this fixed idea could be implemented. (personally, I wasn't very good at it.)

Sort of like his fixed idea that because we've all lived before and done everything we should immediately be able to do any post. That proved to be utter nonsense.

Or that children were just thetans in a young body and should be treated as adults. That didn't work out either.

Experience sort of proves that not everyone has the understanding and communication skills to pull off auditing. It's an art and its a skill. Just as anyone can put paint on a canvas, not everyone can make a decent painting. Outcomes always depend on ability.

The irony of KSW was the insertion of fixed ideas into a subject that emphasized how detrimental fixed ideas were. Hubbard reeked of fixed ideas, and I could never quite grasp how someone who authored the material about Ser Facs and fixed ideas could so blatantly dramatize them.

Thanks for putting that up.

Speaking of irony and individuals not practicing what they preach, here's a treat: John Oliver from the Daily Show interviewing Froma Harrop. Jaw dropping in its irony.

www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-january-12-2012/civil... - Cached

 

[Terril park]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

So....if people were making gains on this and handling whatever was in their own universe or electrical field that was making them feel supressed and it was working....why did LRH change it to something that was non workable and made the situation worse?

And.....if they really had the tech that released people from what was making them feel supressed and LRH changed it and left people stuck in it from then on instead of allowing them to get free of it.......that really, really, really pisses me off. That is so f@#king evil. What kind of monster would do that?

Since some were there who saw what worked......did anybody preserve it or hang onto it?

Does anybody have that tech now?

LRH looked again at this area of tech in his last lectures of 1975. I
believe its called the new vitality rundown, Flag only. God knows how it runs at flag. Maybe many PCs come up with DM!

My guess is that LRH wanted a quick fix so people get onto the OT levels
quicker, and where they might handle such problems. Note that there are
several implant GPM levels after power and the theory, and very possibly the practice, might be one handled such matters at that level. Looks
like the "what" part of JMs write up sometimes or often didn't get handled,
which may explain why LRH took these ideas up again.

 

[RogerB]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

LRH looked again at this area of tech in his last lectures of 1975. I
believe its called the new vitality rundown, Flag only. God knows how it runs at flag. Maybe many PCs come up with DM!

My guess is that LRH wanted a quick fix so people get onto the OT levels
quicker, and where they might handle such problems. Note that there are
several implant GPM levels after power and the theory, and very possibly the practice, might be one handled such matters at that level. Looks
like the "what" part of JMs write up sometimes or often didn't get handled,
which may explain why LRH took these ideas up again.

Bullshit! Terril.

And you shouldn't "guess" as you noted on your 2nd paragraph above.

Stick to known facts.

You are demonstrating you are stuck in the Mobius Loop think that "the OT Levels" actually handle case infallibly to great benefit . . . . that's proven false by all those who did them and vouch that they do not and more so by Scooter's thread on "Why OT's Behave Badly."

And I will tell you the "OT levels" do not, repeat NOT, handle and do not even address the scenario John Mac revealed.

Where the hell do you come up with this delusion from you just ran (and keep running) on folks here?! You are simply demonstrating you do not have a clue about what you are asserting . . . you admit you are "no techie," yet you keep dumping in your false and misleading think/opinion on the issue.

I am seriously caused to wonder if you actually understand what you read on occasions such as this assertion of yours above.

The OT levels do NOT address the area or issue cited in John Mac's write-up.

R

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Terril ... you are not the Messiah (Roger is).

Go and check the Pasadena thread he just referred to where he teaches the REAL FACTUAL TEK ... and try to learn something for goodness sake.


http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?14524-The-Tech-Error-of-%9262-%9263%97How-it-Went-Negative-RogerB%92s-FZ-Presentation-in-Pasadena

​

 

[Ted]

More on Perceptions

[...]

There's a parable about an old man sitting on a hill overlooking a city. A man approaches, gruffly asks, "Old man, what's that city like?"

"I don't know. What was the city like you just came from?" the old man replies calmly.

"It was a horrible place. The people were ignorant. They couldn't do anything right. I couldn't wait to get away from the filthy bastards," he replied furiously.

"I see," said the old man, nodding. "Unfortunately, you will find the city below exactly like that."

The man stormed off.

A while later, another man approached.

"Sir, what is the city like below?" he asked, smiling while he paused to take a drink, offering some to the old man.

"I don't know. What was the city like you just came from?" asked the old man, sharing a drink.

The man's smile broadened. "One of the most wonderful places imaginable. The people were so friendly. Everyone helped one another. I made so many friends there that I will always remember. When I finish my business I'm going return and share what I gain."

"I see," said the old man, nodding. "Fortunately, you will find the city below exactly the same."

Just as my paradigms color how I view others; theirs color how they see me.

[...]

Bado, I have snipped your fine post to focus on something I want to comment on.

Hubbard defined Reality as, "mass or agreement," and here's a twist with a hook, "Reality is what the majority agrees it is." This acts as justification for all the secrecy of Scientology, everything from not talking about your case outside of session to locking Scientologists behind closed doors, double true for SO staff who are under tighter restrictions than publics. Control the agreement thus control what is for that group. Control of Scios gets lost when it fails to change a person's core beliefs.

Here's my new definition: Reality stems from a being's projection based on the being's beliefs. Change belief thus change perception, and change reality. In any troublesome area of the being's life, change of belief will effect change in the physical universe and the universes of other beings.

To say that reality is "what the majority agrees it is" locks the being into another's or other's reality. In scio-world, one locks into Hubbard-world as one pretty much equals the other. In your example above, the man who believed the city he left was one of the most wonderful places imaginable will continue to find the next city likewise, that is until the man's beliefs have been altered by experience. If he is strong in his beliefs (high-toned), he will maintain his beliefs and alter the city by his belief alone, even if only a little bit.

There is much more to this. I will continue later.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

<snip>
My guess is ...
<snip>

"Guess" seems to be your high water mark.

 

[lkwdblds]

The Saturday Get Together at Blue Spirit's

It's nice to see the Apollo thread moving forward again. It is interesting that there was a lull in new posting but lots of views were still occuring. What outstanding posts this morning, starting off with Carmelo's posting having to do with John McMaster's dissertation of S & D's. Good postings by Bardo, FoTi, Roger, in particular, and Ted.

The dissertation on S & D's was new to me. What a revalation! Finding out this information at a late stage in life is like a life preserver being tossed to a drowning man. Great question by FoTi as to LRH's motives! We are lucky to have Roger around to answer such questions. I have no idea what LRH's motives were in altering the tech which McMasters and his team developed but the results speak for themselves. The alterations were key in moving the C of S onto a very destructive path. It appears that this horrendous change in the tech occurred shortly after 1963, when the first major destructive tech, having to do with GPM's, was launched.

These two destructive changes plus the KSW #1 Bulletin being written and being ordered to be the first Bulletin or Policy on every Course Pack seems to have been the 1-2-3 punch which led the C of S to be the destructive organization which it is today. If I had to hazard a guess as to why LRH altered the workable tech presented to him for the worse, I would say that the motive had to do with his case being very restimulated at that time. I did not particularly like Terril's explanations to whitewash what LRH had done and agree strongly with what Roger answered in response. Of course, Terril has a right to his own opinions.

To this day it amazes me how ineffective putting the KSW #1 and the Bulletin about "Technical Degrades" at the front of every course pack has been!!! Those Bulletins are still at the front of every pack and must be "star-rated" and yet they are ignored. Take the "Old OT Levels", they were called old and were replaced by NOTS, in direct opposition to what the Technical Degrades Bulletin says. No one says a word about it.

I stayed on courses through 2001 and I reread those KSW Bulletins before starting all my new courses. I knew that the original OT levels were now called "old" and "no longer in use" I rationalized that management and LRH had made an official decision to replace the old OT levels with NOTS. There had to be an official bulletin somewhere, signed by LRH. How could it be otherwise? I thought that somehow I had missed reading that Bulletin, which must surely exist and be available. I never asked to see such a bulletin in writing.

An other thing which LRH says is to "Solve it with Scientology". He specificall says not to engage in things such as chili cook offs or a picnic or raffle to raise funds. The admonition is to "Solve it with Scientology". There is another admonition and that is to not "boast as to speed of delivery". I notice that in various Ideal Org Promo which I still receive, the Orgs are putting on everything under the Sun to raise money for their buildings. There are Barbeques, Bingo Nights, Las Vegas Nights, Bowling Nights, Raffles, Drawings, etc. all having to do with collecting funds for the Ideal Orgs and all flagrantly violate the KSW Bulletins!!!

As to speed of delivery, most of the new "Golden Age" materials are designed to speed up delivery which then is repeatedly boasted about by non other than the leader of the "church", DM. Now that these new electronic reader tablets alled "Kindles" are out, the need for a dictionary is done away with. A Scientologist reading his material on his Kindle can just click on a word he doesn't fully understand, and the definitions will immediately appear on his screen. What a boondoggle for DM, in his ongoing battle to speed up delivery! Again. those bulletins at the front of every pack are being routinely ignored.

THE PARTY SATURDAY NIGHT -
The party was put on by Blue Spirit and his wife. Twenty people attended inside Blue Spirit's small but charning apartment. Several delightful and interesting people showed up. Lynn Fountain Campbell and her husband attended as did Aida and Dave Thomas. Johnny the Magic Thetan was there as was a former Scio, Phil G. The Mongiello family was there including Bob, who made the video recently presented on ESMB, concerning the Riverside Mission in its hay day. Bob's attractive Son and Daughter were also present as were Grace and Ken A. Speaking of attractive people, Mary W., an associate of Johnny's also attended.

I talked for the first time with Dave T. and found out we have a lot in common. We are both boxing afficianados and had some great discussions about Mohammed Ali and his fights with George Foreman and Joe Frazer. Also, Dave is into classic cars. I just read about them but he has owned them and currently owns a classic old time motorcycle. his two favorite classic cars were a 1953 Packard Mayfair and a 1955 Packard Patrician, the huge luxury cruiser which was one of the last Packards. He told me that he used the Patrician to pick up women when he was single back in the 70's and that it worked like a charm.

Next I talked with Lynn Fountain Campbell's husband about the old days in Scn and finally I talked for over an hour with Aida. Except for the time she interviewed me for a video on July 4, 2010, I had barely spoken to her but this time we spoke one on one for over an hour and I learned a lot about her background.

For you Johnny the Magic Thetan Fans, nothing much has changed for him. I was told that he had his medical condition treated successfully and he now appears to be in good health. He is still pushing his WonderWorld Project and doing some field auditing. He reached his "end phenomena" on ESMB and will not be posting here anymore.

There were snacks and drinks and a buffet style dinner was served around 5:30 so the party was very enjoyable.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

lakey,

When I had that "insight," I didn't like others very much. At that time, the invidious comparison to cockroaches came from pockets of rage and hatred that sometimes consumed me. At that time I felt like the Orson Wells character, Harry Lime, looking down at the "ants" from above. Humanity seemed to be a virus.

Yet, I was also transforming. Something extraordinary was beginning to flow through me. I was beginning to feel something far greater and more intelligent than myself. Feel it earnestly rather than vaguely. It was like the wonder you see in children amped up exponentially.

The reasons to dislike and disparage others crumbled, fell off and began to drift away. Like a.

Where once I felt my intelligence made me superior to others in some significant manner, I was beginning to understand that we are all so very much alike. Maybe it was a vision similar to what Saul had in the Bible.

I was losing my desire to find fault in others and gaining an appreciation of what was wonderful. I was discovering that others had so much to offer, so much I could learn. There's that oriental aphorism that to understand a grain of sand is to understand the entire universe. It's not a slight on the grain of sand; it's an appreciation of the magnificence of connection.

Even the supposedly lowly cockroach has a place in the grand scheme. The design is so efficient the species has lasted for millions of years.

When I find insects in our home, or field mice, I catch them and place them outside. Maybe it's a bit of foolishness to feel one should respect all life. Some life forms seem so destructive. I know I get flu shots. I know I eat steak and shrimp. Plants are also alive and I eat them.

Living just requires a balance. Such as between forgiveness and justice. Respect life and use life to further life.

I know that place you speak of, that place from which inspiration comes, that place where all this beauty exists. I try to spend as much time there as I can. I like to throw down a blanket, rub a little oil on me, lay down, and bask in its warmth. I suppose you could say, I'm a tourist in God's arms.

And this from an agnostic gnostic.

My favorite scene from all the movies and plays I've seen is when Rutger Hauer is standing in the rain, explaining to the Bladerunner how magnificent life is, how precious the experience of the soaring beauty life has to offer. Such an incredibly powerful moment. Life is filled with a soaring beauty. A beauty only touched upon in the best of music.

And that beauty resides somewhere in each of us. All the billions of us.

And beyond.

The best of music and art help to take us there, help us see past the mundane into the grandness of which we are all a part. Art opens the door. It's up to us to walk through.

I don't hate anyone. Just can't find it in my heart anymore. Certainly, we all can understand more. Certainly, we can all be less selfish and take better care of one another and our environment. Certainly we all think and say things others regard as "stupid." And there are moments when we are all a bit ugly and mean-spirited. So what?

Sometimes, I see us like raindrops, all part of the water system supporting the planet. In groups, we're sort of like the multiplicity of streams and rivers all flowing into the same system. Some are more violent and turbulent and muddy than others. Some contain more virulent and destructive creatures. Some are placid and inspirational. But, in essence, all water.

There's a parable about an old man sitting on a hill overlooking a city. A man approaches, gruffly asks, "Old man, what's that city like?"

"I don't know. What was the city like you just came from?" the old man replies calmly.

"It was a horrible place. The people were ignorant. They couldn't do anything right. I couldn't wait to get away from the filthy bastards," he replied furiously.

"I see," said the old man, nodding. "Unfortunately, you will find the city below exactly like that."

The man stormed off.

A while later, another man approached.

"Sir, what is the city like below?" he asked, smiling while he paused to take a drink, offering some to the old man.

"I don't know. What was the city like you just came from?" asked the old man, sharing a drink.

The man's smile broadened. "One of the most wonderful places imaginable. The people were so friendly. Everyone helped one another. I made so many friends there that I will always remember. When I finish my business I'm going return and share what I gain."

"I see," said the old man, nodding. "Fortunately, you will find the city below exactly the same."

Just as my paradigms color how I view others; theirs color how they see me.

I've read much to admire in Gadfly's posts. He has many profound ideas. I really don't know him. I think his view is that reading me is a waste of time. Probably not bad advice. I'm often frustrated with myself also.

I've found much to admire going to other threads and reading the posts of those who took exception to me for one reason or another. We could all become better in one way or another. We all have lessons to learn. We all have our path to walk.

I'm looking at this timer, seeing it as a clue to life's great mystery. There's a lovely, quirky detective novel written by Sara Gran: Claire DeWitt and The City of The Dead. It's all about finding clues, not only to the murder but to life's mysteries.

The timer is definitely a clue.

Those who find the most fulfillment in life seem to be those who have devoted themselves. Maybe it's to writing, to a sport, to a cause, to a friend, family, lover, God. Devotion. The complete investment of self, without reservation. It's what makes love grand: to devote yourself completely to another. I think that's what attracted so many to Scientology: the opportunity to completely devote oneself to something greater.

And then came the betrayals.

And the need to discover something else to which we can devote ourselves and find fulfillment.

Sometimes, when lovers are too easy to find, it's hard to devote oneself to a single relationship. It's probably why the famous have so many divorces. There will always be someone else to take to bed. Always someone else who's willing. Sometimes, when your interests are too broad, it's hard to devote yourself to what you should. Hard to commit. Hard to be willing to overcome the difficulties. After all, why bother to fix something when you can afford to just throw it away and get another?

Come spring, the timer will be sold in our garage sale. Though it has an organizational/budgetary function, the timer also acts as an unintended insult. It says, in its way, this is not sufficiently important for my devotion.

I to write all my term papers the night before they were due. It served me well. Wait until the last minute, devote myself through the night, get my A, and forget about it. Life has it's Big Term Paper coming due soon. I'm getting old enough to appreciate the need to devote myself to taking this one seriously and doing as good a job as I can.

Ciao

Bardo, thanks for this long post. You are quite the philosopher! I can see that you are changing so keep looking, keep growing and keep being philosophic.

I really like your observation above which I copied and am putting in blue.

Those who find the most fulfillment in life seem to be those who have devoted themselves. Maybe it's to writing, to a sport, to a cause, to a friend, family, lover, God. Devotion. The complete investment of self, without reservation. It's what makes love grand: to devote yourself completely to another. I think that's what attracted so many to Scientology: the opportunity to completely devote oneself to something greater.

The above seems to be very true. The football coach, Joe Paterno, is a good example. He coached the University of Pennsylvania for 61 years and was honored and adored by everyone connected with the University. His life was full and at 85 years of age, he still had all his hair and it still had color. He looked quite young for that age.

Just recently, one of Joe's former assistants was arrested for child molesting while he worked on campus. It seems that he had a fetish for underage boys. Joe Paterno knew about this and reported it to University officials but not to the police and let the man keep his job for several years after knowing about these transgressions.

Finally pressure was brought to bear to arrest the former assistant coach and to discipline Joe Paterno as well. Joe was removed immediately as football coach, one game before his 61st season ended. He was not allowed to coach the important last game, a championship game. Most people at the University remained loyal to him, but officially, he was disgraced by being removed from his job of 61 years.

They announced his death two days ago, at age 85. Losing his job and having his reputation tarnished in front of those who adored him was more than he could handle. He lost his "raison d'etre" very quickly and within weeks, he was dead of cancer. He had the fulfulliment you described above for 61 years, exceeding all of his hopes and expectations. Suddenly, almost overnight, it was all yanked away from him. Some sort of overwhelm occurred, he lost his reason for existing and his body death followed almost immediately. This was a sad thing in a way but really illustrates the point you were making.
Lakey

 

[Terril park]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Bullshit! Terril.

And you shouldn't "guess" as you noted on your 2nd paragraph above.

Stick to known facts.

You are demonstrating you are stuck in the Mobius Loop think that "the OT Levels" actually handle case infallibly to great benefit . . . . that's proven false by all those who did them and vouch that they do not and more so by Scooter's thread on "Why OT's Behave Badly."

And I will tell you the "OT levels" do not, repeat NOT, handle and do not even address the scenario John Mac revealed.

Where the hell do you come up with this delusion from you just ran (and keep running) on folks here?! You are simply demonstrating you do not have a clue about what you are asserting . . . you admit you are "no techie," yet you keep dumping in your false and misleading think/opinion on the issue.

I am seriously caused to wonder if you actually understand what you read on occasions such as this assertion of yours above.

The OT levels do NOT address the area or issue cited in John Mac's write-up.

R

Well I'm not a techie, and I did say guess. I should have added that
I'd like some techies to comment, which possibly you have referring to
your lecture.

You are demonstrating you are stuck in the Mobius Loop think that "the OT Levels" actually handle case infallibly to great benefit . . . . that's proven false by all those who did them and vouch that they do not and more so by Scooter's thread on "Why OT's Behave Badly."

Clearly not, as I stated such matters that JM wrote about might
not be handled.

Handling case infallibly is one thing.

Getting case gain on actions is another.

I was speculating as to what LRH was thinking back in 1965.

We know he decided to re instate JMs ideas in 1975, we must assume he came to the conclusion they were needed.

As level 6,7 and OT 2 address implant GPMs one might surmise in a sense one is dealing with suppression. As these are lengthy rundowns
one might have all sorts of cognitions, bearing that in mind why they would definitely not address JM's " What"? I certainly accept that they don't in all cases

Then there is the issue of what these implant GPMs actually are. I
know they can produce great case gain, but why?

I should mention that JMs write ups and tech are available in the FZ and not only from Carmnello.

 

[Leon]

Re: More on Perceptions

Bado, I have snipped your fine post to focus on something I want to comment on.

Hubbard defined Reality as, "mass or agreement," and here's a twist with a hook, "Reality is what the majority agrees it is." This acts as justification for all the secrecy of Scientology, everything from not talking about your case outside of session to locking Scientologists behind closed doors, double true for SO staff who are under tighter restrictions than publics. Control the agreement thus control what is for that group. Control of Scios gets lost when it fails to change a person's core beliefs.

Here's my new definition: Reality stems from a being's projection based on the being's beliefs. Change belief thus change perception, and change reality. In any troublesome area of the being's life, change of belief will effect change in the physical universe and the universes of other beings.

To say that reality is "what the majority agrees it is" locks the being into another's or other's reality. In scio-world, one locks into Hubbard-world as one pretty much equals the other. In your example above, the man who believed the city he left was one of the most wonderful places imaginable will continue to find the next city likewise, that is until the man's beliefs have been altered by experience. If he is strong in his beliefs (high-toned), he will maintain his beliefs and alter the city by his belief alone, even if only a little bit.

There is much more to this. I will continue later.

There's actually an odd little kink in this datum of Hubbard's. Fact is if one created something and everyone "agreed" with it then then cycle of action would be complete and it would be dispensed with. What makes the creation persist is really that others did NOT agree with it, they said "Yaa Boo that's a lousy mock-up you made, Yeuccch!". And the guy who created it then asserted it more heavily - demanding admiration for his creation - and soon it all became a Create-CounterCreate ridge and persisted for ever more. Thus "solid reality".

Now it is true that there is some sort of underlying agreement to this in that one has to recognise the existence of the creation in order to YaaBoo it, but without the subsequent rejection of the creation it would not have persisted.

This applies in present time too with mental mass etc.

 

[RogerB]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

You are being stupid Terril . . . . we early guys had already run Hubbard's implant stuff for over two years by "late Summer 1965" . . . . if the answer to the "what" that is "suppressive" to the person was in the implants and OT levels, that you like to keep telling people are the thing to do, it would have been seen and known by then.

If you read and understand what MacMaster wrote, you'd see that what he worked on included the knowledge of all that is in the "implants" you tout.

The answer he and his team of top people came up with ain't there . . . the folk on the team were the top auditors who'd gone through the own goals GPMs and implant stuff that was the basis of the '62-'63 SHSBC they'd all been on.

Why don't, won't you look at the facts of history, the time line of released tech, and also what is written in that piece by John M and understand it?

We started running the implant shite in May 1963! That's the same shite that got packaged up in the "advanced courses"

Christ! Have you bothered to read the Anderson Report on the Melbourne Inquiry? You can read all about the list of implants stuff as provided to the Inquiry at the end of 1963-beginning of '64!

R

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

... If you read and understand what MacMaster wrote, you'd see that what he worked on included the knowledge of all that is in the "implants" you tout. ...

Very good comment, Rog. I certainly don't consider myself a tech expert but this point you make ever since I was first made aware of MacMaster's approach has seemed to me to be fairly obvious. The entire idea behind 'implants' is to produce an artificial internal conflict based on unresolved polarities and thereby reduce the independence of the individual.

Any viable tech approach which assists in resolving polarity based conflict must accordingly resolve artificially induced internal conflicts also.

It's not the fact that 'implants' are somehow 'special' that is important. The controlling issue is the presence of an internal conflict based on polarity based thinking. Resolve the polarity, resolve the conflict. From the little I've seen, much of the 'advanced levels' seem to be directed more to swapping one type of polarity based conflict for a different type & mythos.

It seems to me that those who seem to get the most permanent benefit from auditing on the 'standard' scientology upper levels appear to be those who do the best job of resolving the conflicts without adopting as true hubbard's substitute mythos & the polarities inherent in it.

Unfortunately, too many seem to have suffered from doing the levels and often because they accept as necessarily true hubbard's stated views about the material.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Terril park]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

You are being stupid Terril . . . . we early guys had already run Hubbard's implant stuff for over two years by "late Summer 1965" . . . .

May I request that you don't insult me? I'm on good terms with an enormous number of old timers who don't insult me. Including N.M.
who was on the experimental 1962/3 briefing course. Also Alan who
had no insults. Met him and crew in 2007.

You call me stupid cos I don't have the full understanding of what the experimental SHSBC was?

I've had comm, and still have comm with many tech divas. Insults are sometime thrown around. I am above that. You should be too.

It diminishes you! Agreed I struggle with Alan's Knowledgism. Have
to learn a new language.

perhaps you can comment in language I and others are more able to understand.

if the answer to the "what" that is "suppressive" to the person was in the implants and OT levels, that you like to keep telling people are the thing to do, it would have been seen and known by then.

You were there. Was it? If not what did you do about it.

Did you see and know this? Did you write this up to LRH?

If you read and understand what MacMaster wrote, you'd see that what he worked on included the knowledge of all that is in the "implants" you tout.

The answer he and his team of top people came up with ain't there . . . the folk on the team were the top auditors who'd gone through the own goals GPMs and implant stuff that was the basis of the '62-'63 SHSBC they'd all been on.

Why don't, won't you look at the facts of history, the time line of released tech, and also what is written in that piece by John M and understand it?

Thanks for inspiring me to read all of JMs reports.l Very much like his direction.

We started running the implant shite in May 1963! That's the same shite that got packaged up in the "advanced courses"

I and most I know had great gains on this. Your negation of it is personal.

Then people react differently to different levels.

To invalidate those who had gains is non optimum!

Christ! Have you bothered to read the Anderson Report on the Melbourne Inquiry? You can read all about the list of implants stuff as provided to the Inquiry at the end of 1963-beginning of '64!

R

Yes. Years ago. Also ran them.

I like what I've read by JM. All for it.

 

[Ted]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[...] people react differently to different levels.

To invalidate those who had gains is non optimum!


[...]

Some people are susceptible to hype. That factors into their expectations, and sometimes acts like a hidden standard.

Others turn adversity to advantage. They make lemonade out of lemons.

On the tech side, I was one who made lemonade out of lemons, but all was not lemony. There was some sweet stuff in there as well. Actually, most all was sweet stuff, and the lemon was insignificant.

The admin and ethics tech is another story--too much lemon, too little sugar.

 

[FoTi]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Since there don't seem to be any cookie cutter people/beings, at least I haven't seen any....it seems that cookie cutter tech might be a little iffy....might work for some but not for others...or might be a benefit to some and a detriment to others.

One might achieve a god-like state while another might wind up in the soup, while using the same piece of tech.

Some say it's good......some say it's not.....well.....could it be that it is good/works for some and not for others? :confused2: