Help with Child Custody

[concerned wife]

Hello everyone-

I need some guidance. The father of my children has walked out. He has returned to Clearwater and the scientology pool. I have an upcoming custody hearing in another state. I am suppose to provide evidence or facts of why I should not let the children travel and visit their father. I have told the father who is into scientology that he is able to visit the children (all under the age of 6) anytime but here in the state where I reside. I have told him that I will not let them travel to clearwater. I am afraid of the whole scientology mass there. I don't trust him. His judgement is clouded. Any ideas anyone that I can present to the court? I really need some hard facts /help.

thanks in advance.

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

they are children, so how are they supposed to get there? Hubby would have to prove a suitable environment and time to care for them, tonnes of stories about the lack of time for anything other than Lron in CW's Flag, and the neglect children have endured. Why should they have to go there? I'd be afraid,very afraid. There must be child advocates around who can advise you of your rights.
IANAL but the fact that you do not want your kids exposed to a cult of grief and fear at all should bear weight, hm, what about going lawyer shopping, most will give a bit of time to consult, local law school maybe? Can you demand a court ordered psychiatric assessment?
Don't know, just shooting off the hip and \I'm sure other's will chime in soon enough.
Good luck, you and your children have my prayers (ya, I know you didn't ask that).
I am truly sorry I cannot give you legal council on this, but I thought I'd give you a thought or two just so you didn't feel like your plea was unheard.

Ogs

 

[lotus]

My suggestion

I would plead the father is under the control of a known cult weel known for it's abuses on human rights, children and presently alleged and\or under investigation
from authorities for human trafficking - especially concerning minors.

Then submit evidences of testimonies available with Mark Bunker ,,the knowledge report'' excerps - Valeska Paris

Testimony available from Jenna Miscavige

Daniel Montalvo case

testimony availabble from the child involved iun the Eastgate case

And submit evidences written by LRH as policies

concerning RPF with children
Seck check with children

The father salary (50$ week) and lack of any facility on the coumpound to take care fo children

for you to supervise such visit will allow to close the door to any attempt to cult endoctrinment of your child to serv as an illegal labour force for the Sea Org labour camp.

This is only a draft and suggestions - there is many options...but you might fight on what you can proove with facts about abuses in the cult.

 

[BunnySkull]

Cam you clarify a few things? Does the father work independent of Scientology or is he on staff at Flag? Maybe work for a Scio business?

I would definitely bring up the policy of disconnection, how it is taught in the cult and how you fear this damaging your relationship with your children.

Have your children had any exposure to the cult? When you were married was their any agreement or discussion about their religious upbringing? If there were agreements made about religious upbringing made during the marriage - judges do listen take these previous agreements seriously.

Is your husband's family involved in the cult? Does he have any family members against the cult that may help you with this matter? (relatives that could testify about the cults practices and dangers)

I would also collect all the first person accounts and court docs detailing the treatment of children in CoS, of being adults in small bodies, of being pressured to sign SO contracts at young ages, of the recruitment pressure....

Also there is a member of this board who lost a child due to an accident at a CoS Org due to the totally inadequate supervision of children at cult facilities.

 

[FoTi]

If you are in the U.S...or Canada...... and need legal advice....get Legal Shield.

http://www.legalshield.com/cp/

It's very inexpensive...I pay $17 a month in the U.S. ..... this gives me access to talk to an attorney and ask questions and get legal advice 24/7 and it includes other legal services as well.

 

[BunnySkull]

Also tread carefully with the way you handle the CoS issue, you don't want the husband to turn this into a legal circus about "religious bigotry/freedom." keep the belief angle out of it and stick to the document abusive and negligent behaviors of the cult as the reason for keeping children away from facilities.

The last thing you want is the cult to lend him shady legal support and make this some legal cause for religious freedom - you just know they love crap like this as a way to get more donations out of members and a way to distract members from the real problems facing the cult.

 

[Bonnie Woods]

QU[OTE=FoTi;650975]If you are in the U.S...... and need legal advice....get Legal Shield.

http://www.legalshield.com/cp/

It's very inexpensive...I pay $17 a month ..... this gives me access to talk to an attorney and ask questions and get legal advice 24/7 and it includes other legal services as well.[/QUOTE]

Hello Concerned Wife,
If we can be of any help you can e-mail us at [email protected]- we have consulted in various child custody cases in the UK. Most important document to have is the Justice Latey decision. Easily available on the Internet I would think.
Kindest Regards,
Bonnie Woods

 

[renegade]

No worries Concerned. It has been my personal experience and observation that the scn dads that leave with no regard for their children's welfare, will not try to get custody or if they do, make very little effort that peters out in the end. Unfortunately that same dead-beat dad, will not honor their child support responsibilities either! NO money to give you becuz the church will get it all! This is also the reason they may have no interest in child custody anyway.

Please keep us posted. I want to see if this behavior is still rampant in the church where the dead beat dad is not handled as long as he continues up the bridge and you get called the bad guy!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Hello everyone-

I need some guidance. The father of my children has walked out. He has returned to Clearwater and the scientology pool. I have an upcoming custody hearing in another state. I am suppose to provide evidence or facts of why I should not let the children travel and visit their father. I have told the father who is into scientology that he is able to visit the children (all under the age of 6) anytime but here in the state where I reside. I have told him that I will not let them travel to clearwater. I am afraid of the whole scientology mass there. I don't trust him. His judgement is clouded. Any ideas anyone that I can present to the court? I really need some hard facts /help.

thanks in advance.

This is absolutely your best resource for data to use in making your case ... http://exscientologykids.com/ .

ESMB also has reports from various scientologists who experienced the cult as children, but they may be more difficult to locate amidst the plethora of posts. Try contacting Bea Kiddo, Sharone Stanfield, and some of the other former scio kids for links to their stories which you can submit to the court in support of your argument.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Div6]

Do you have sole custody or joint custody? If that has not been determined yet, I would lawyer up and go for sole custody. Walking out on his family shows where his "loyalty" lies, and goes to the heart of his "trustworthiness".

 

[Gadfly]

Yes, GET A LAWYER.

Nothing gets done about child custody without one, especially if there is any sort of disagreement or contrary aims.

 

[Gottabrain]

Hello everyone-

I need some guidance. The father of my children has walked out. He has returned to Clearwater and the scientology pool. I have an upcoming custody hearing in another state. I am suppose to provide evidence or facts of why I should not let the children travel and visit their father. I have told the father who is into scientology that he is able to visit the children (all under the age of 6) anytime but here in the state where I reside. I have told him that I will not let them travel to clearwater. I am afraid of the whole scientology mass there. I don't trust him. His judgement is clouded. Any ideas anyone that I can present to the court? I really need some hard facts /help.

thanks in advance.

Your reasoning is solid. This should go very well and I don't foresee any problems. Yes, you need a lawyer, but depending on your income, this may not cost you anything, either.

What you have described is what I did when I was out of state with our son and the father was in COS. But I limited visits to supervision WITH THE CHILD'S FAMILY. In other words, I flew him out yearly to his father's family and his father would fly there to see him. This way we also got around "disconnection" policy and I didn't have to worry about the father shoving Scientology down our son's throat, as the family was supervising (non Scientologists).

I also was awarded child support payments that COS had to pay while the father was there based on the fact it had previously paid support for an outside babysitter. It wasn't much, but the "establishment of precedent" of the earlier payments made this completely valid in US court. (All set up with an attorney beforehand).

You need documentation. Your own notes of him trying to recruit your son or convert him to Scientology, of him deserting his son for his religion (places his personal religious interests above his child's welfare) and of course, any documentation you want to use here or elsewhere of the conditions at COS or treatment of children there.

You are welcome to PM me if you want to discuss it further. My name is Sheila Huber and this is my story of when I left:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv0Ny-nb8yM

 

[concerned wife]

Cam you clarify a few things? Does the father work independent of Scientology or is he on staff at Flag? Maybe work for a Scio business?

I would definitely bring up the policy of disconnection, how it is taught in the cult and how you fear this damaging your relationship with your children.

Have your children had any exposure to the cult? When you were married was their any agreement or discussion about their religious upbringing? If there were agreements made about religious upbringing made during the marriage - judges do listen take these previous agreements seriously.

Is your husband's family involved in the cult? Does he have any family members against the cult that may help you with this matter? (relatives that could testify about the cults practices and dangers)

I would also collect all the first person accounts and court docs detailing the treatment of children in CoS, of being adults in small bodies, of being pressured to sign SO contracts at young ages, of the recruitment pressure....

Also there is a member of this board who lost a child due to an accident at a CoS Org due to the totally inadequate supervision of children at cult facilities.

Thanks for the replies.
Currently I don't believe he is on staff with them. Unfortunately, his family that lives in CLearwater are involved in this cult plus his employer. He is surrounded by these people. Plus his employer is high in the ranks of the organization. She has her own business and he helps her manage it. Unfortunately, there is no one I can reach out to in his family. They have never had any interest in my children just their son.
No discussions were had regardin upbringing the children in this cult. He knew very well that I would not allow the children to be exposed to such insanity.
Where can I get these court documents regarding the children? Everything on scientology is so hidden that I don't know where to begin. Will the court take this as evidence.
I cannot let my children be exposed to this insanity.
Please advise.
Thanks

 

[concerned wife]

No worries Concerned. It has been my personal experience and observation that the scn dads that leave with no regard for their children's welfare, will not try to get custody or if they do, make very little effort that peters out in the end. Unfortunately that same dead-beat dad, will not honor their child support responsibilities either! NO money to give you becuz the church will get it all! This is also the reason they may have no interest in child custody anyway.

He supposedly has agreed to let me have sole custody. I had my first court date however because he is out of state he was supposed to have had the summons for 20 days. When I asked these idiots in the court about the serving time for an out of state person they said eight days. So now I am afraid that he will have too much time to think about this and may want to fight me on this. I can't trust him. He didn't show up for the first hearing. Now the second hearing is in March. I am very worried. I can't trust he will not fight for visitation rights. I would allow him to visit but ONLY here in the state I live in.

 

[concerned wife]

Yes, GET A LAWYER.

Nothing gets done about child custody without one, especially if there is any sort of disagreement or contrary aims.

I did get a lawyer appointed to me in our first hearing. He did not show up in any form at all. He is currently out of state. But I am afraid that doesn't mean that he won't change his mind and fight for custody.

 

[concerned wife]

What you have described is what I did when I was out of state with our son and the father was in COS. But I limited visits to supervision WITH THE CHILD'S FAMILY. In other words, I flew him out yearly to his father's family and his father would fly there to see him. This way we also got around "disconnection" policy and I didn't have to worry about the father shoving Scientology down our son's throat, as the family was supervising (non Scientologists).


You need documentation. Your own notes of him trying to recruit your son or convert him to Scientology, of him deserting his son for his religion (places his personal religious interests above his child's welfare) and of course, any documentation you want to use here or elsewhere of the conditions at COS or treatment of children there.

You are welcome to PM me if you want to discuss it further. My name is Sheila Huber and this is my story of when I left:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv0Ny-nb8yM

Thanks Sheila!
However your story did not post and I am very interested in reading it.

That is what I am seeking - Documentation.

He wants me to allow my oldest son who is 6 to visit him in FL in the near future for a week. I said absolutely NOT! Worse that his family is there and he is surrounded by scientolgists. Everywhere you turn, he has somebody..

I am trying to avoid the judge allowing any visitations out of the state I live in.

I am so stressed with this.

 

[Petey C]

Hi, Concerned Wife. I feel for you. But don't get stressed -- it makes people do strange things. Best to just start reading the links suggested, and yes, definitely go to Ex-Scientology kids. Others have advised you to get a lawyer and I would do this immediately. You have the right attitude (ie don't let them go and especially not alone) and you should just stick to your guns. I'm sorry about your kids as they will potentially lose a father, but no-one knows what will happen in the long-term -- plenty of people leave Scientology full of remorse and regret, and I have also read some very moving stories of dads reconnecting with kids after scientology. Just keep doing what you know is in the kids' best interests. Getting in any way involved in scientology is NOT in their best interests, nor in yours.

The Cult Information and Family Support group is an Australian organisation but it has links on its website here: http://www.cifs.org.au/links.php to various international organisations that may have what you need.

Steve Hassan http://www.freedomofmind.com/ also has a very informative website. I've just finished reading one of his books and thought he takes a very sensible, practical approach.

Good luck. You have right on your side.

 

[thetanic]

He supposedly has agreed to let me have sole custody. I had my first court date however because he is out of state he was supposed to have had the summons for 20 days. When I asked these idiots in the court about the serving time for an out of state person they said eight days. So now I am afraid that he will have too much time to think about this and may want to fight me on this. I can't trust him. He didn't show up for the first hearing. Now the second hearing is in March. I am very worried. I can't trust he will not fight for visitation rights. I would allow him to visit but ONLY here in the state I live in.

One thing that will work in your favor: the money and time it'll take to take care of a child will be seen as a distraction. That's why he didn't show up before.

I'd still get a lawyer, of course.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

When in your predicament I did everything very carefully by the book ... Scientology's book!

I wouldn't do things that way now if I were back in that situation and the only reason I mention it is because I gave my ex 'power' he really shouldn't have had and he used it to indoctrinate my children ... and by default, I allowed it. You are doing things correctly in my opinion, use the info on this site for the Court appearance.


Please keep doing what you feel is right for your little ones, and take really good care of yourself and sadly, don't trust a scientologist ever.

Sole custody would be the way to go, if can achieve it.

There are no winners, but with luck and good management you can control the cult's involvement in your children's lives ... certainly until they are adult.

I wish you all the luck in the world.


​

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Concerned wife, I think you have a valid point. If scn is so 'freeing' there is no problem with the father coming to visit providing he leaves the cult-shit behind. If they are all under 6, your children should not be handed over to a Flight Attendant.

I would genuinely be concerned that (even without the father's knowledge) an unsupervised visit could see the children spirited away from you (for their own benefit, of course!). If Clearwater wants to play dirty, you're the target.

Scn is unraveling, and regardless of their cries of "Religious Freedom!" and "This is discrimination!" the awareness of the cult's behavior is becoming more and more prevalent. I think as long as you find a legal practitioner who is not on the scn payroll you have every chance of proving that scn is an extremely unsafe environment for young children and that you would be remiss in your duty of care if you allowed them to enter such an environment of cruel and unusual punishment.

I would also suggest contacting child welfare agencies about this situation. If the parental relationship is still less than vitriolic, stand politely firm.

My muthur raised my sister and me as Jehovah's Witnesses and my father was vehemently against it, so you can imagine the confusion that was wrought on us children. If he wants to play with fire then when he comes along to visit the kids, he is required to step out of the valence/uniform/post of scn and be a caring and loving Dad who does things like picnics, football, bike-riding and all the normal things that other kids get to do. You should even make sure he does a couple of loads of washing!.

If it really comes down to a custody battle, I believe that you have demonstrated a higher level of concern for your children's welfare and that any scn garbage that can get introduced to the Court will only help strengthen your position. Best of luck with it.